Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: hawkeye on October 24, 2010, 08:12:52 PM
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I cant help thinking that we are destined to continue to be the Team that nearly becomes great.
MON has left us with a squad with lots of centre halves, ageing full backs and a few wingers and too many players the wrong side of 30, we dont have any players that are likely to score more than ten goals a season.
NRC has proved himself as a combatitive midfielder that lacks touch and vision, we have A Young who has talent but lacks delivery, Downing that has skill with no cutting edge. A centre forward that dosent score (Heskey) and another centre forward (Gabby) who is not a natural finisher. I cant see this squad of players taking us anywhere.
We are now in a fight to become the best of the rest and i dont see much differnce in the quality of our squad to that of Stoke, West Ham or Blackburn. We have a manager that tells us that we are a 6th to 12th team and our results confirm this, so what is the point?
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It's a very even league now, a lot have teams have caught up with us and Everton in the last two years while we've both basically stood still. I'm still hopeful that Houllier will be able to use whatever money we have wisely.
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Weird because I was thinking the same kind of thing earlier. It's not all doom and gloom, but it's difficult to remain hopeful in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.
We probably won't win a cup because we don't score enough goals. We certainly will not win the league we're in. Not going to qualify for the 'Champions League'. So, as you say, what is the point for a club like Villa? Too 'big' to be happy with premier league survival, not 'big' enough to push on? That's uninspiring to say the very least but it's the truth.
We are as likely to win this league as WBA.
Another season or consolidation / transition / mid table. The latest kick in the nuts is Young's u-turn on the contract front. The poster boy for the new Villa basically saying he wants out (let's not kid ourselves otherwise).
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I cant help thinking that we are destined to continue to be the Team that nearly becomes great.
MON has left us with a squad with lots of centre halves, ageing full backs and a few wingers and too many players the wrong side of 30, we dont have any players that are likely to score more than ten goals a season.
NRC has proved himself as a combatitive midfielder that lacks touch and vision, we have A Young who has talent but lacks delivery, Downing that has skill with no cutting edge. A centre forward that dosent score (Heskey) and another centre forward (Gabby) who is not a natural finisher. I cant see this squad of players taking us anywhere.
We are now in a fight to become the best of the rest and i dont see much differnce in the quality of our squad to that of Stoke, West Ham or Blackburn. We have a manager that tells us that we are a 6th to 12th team and our results confirm this, so what is the point?
Not being funny but why do people keep going back to his comments? What he means is that's where he sees us at the moment, He will almost certainly be trying to improve on that, Look at the teams in the league they are getting stronger and we aint got a bottomless pit of money.
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The thing that pisses me off is that the likes of Everton manage to hold onto their best players, when they're in no better position to challenge than we are. You don't see Cahill or Arteta wanting to move on, though either of those could move on to one of the top four if they wanted. What is it that they're doing right and we're doing wrong?
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Weird because I was thinking the same kind of thing earlier. It's not all doom and gloom, but it's difficult to remain hopeful in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.
We probably won't win a cup because we don't score enough goals. We certainly will not win the league we're in. Not going to qualify for the 'Champions League'. So, as you say, what is the point for a club like Villa? Too 'big' to be happy with premier league survival, not 'big' enough to push on? That's uninspiring to say the very least but it's the truth.
We are as likely to win this league as WBA.
Another season or consolidation / transition / mid table. The latest kick in the nuts is Young's u-turn on the contract front. The poster boy for the new Villa basically saying he wants out (let's not kid ourselves otherwise).
thank god i am not alone, the proud history ib get, the bright future?
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The point is - that it has been the same for many, many years ('81 -82) excepting. That's when we had a chance to take over. Shall we talk about it?
All clubs have a persona - Spuds and their passing style.?. West Ham Academy, (soft but skilful...) Manure, great players attacking footy. SHA. er..... oh yeah, "Losers" that's it.
Us, "Nearly Men".
Well done - erudite, insightful and most importantly you actually said it.
50 years I have supported this Club and it has (almost) always been the same.
Question is: I like what we stand for as a Club etc etc but would I want US to have Man City/Chelsea Millions and actually strive to be the very best in terms of winners of silverware? To have players of genuine World Class quality? Yes I bloody would. I mean Manchester or Liverpool are not a comparitive shangrilar in comparison with Brum is it, so it is not our City.
I feel we deserve to be respected as Winning Club and fifty years later I am still waiting for us to establish ourselves as such . I am fed up of "Fresh Starts" and "Five Year Plans". Docherty, Venglos, O Niel and Rene, etc..
The on going: "We have to re build. Fans must have Patience." I am patient but might die any minute.
However, to quote you: "The point is "...... we have little Choice. It's the Club we support and unlike the Glory Hunting ( unlike us as Glory HINTING) supporters we are stuck with it - it seems.
Anyway, Rant over. Good post. Well said. IMHO. But I am supportive of the new regime and of course live in hope.
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The thing that pisses me off is that the likes of Everton manage to hold onto their best players, when they're in no better position to challenge than we are. You don't see Cahill or Arteta wanting to move on, though either of those could move on to one of the top four if they wanted. What is it that they're doing right and we're doing wrong?
I see what your saying but I'd like to see what would happen say if City wanted Arteta? They certainly got Lescott didn't they?
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I cant help thinking that we are destined to continue to be the Team that nearly becomes great.
MON has left us with a squad with lots of centre halves, ageing full backs and a few wingers and too many players the wrong side of 30, we dont have any players that are likely to score more than ten goals a season.
NRC has proved himself as a combatitive midfielder that lacks touch and vision, we have A Young who has talent but lacks delivery, Downing that has skill with no cutting edge. A centre forward that dosent score (Heskey) and another centre forward (Gabby) who is not a natural finisher. I cant see this squad of players taking us anywhere.
We are now in a fight to become the best of the rest and i dont see much differnce in the quality of our squad to that of Stoke, West Ham or Blackburn. We have a manager that tells us that we are a 6th to 12th team and our results confirm this, so what is the point?
Not being funny but why do people keep going back to his comments? What he means is that's where he sees us at the moment, He will almost certainly be trying to improve on that, Look at the teams in the league they are getting stronger and we aint got a bottomless pit of money.
beacuse every bloody interview he says the same thing, as recent as yesterday, talk about self fulfilling prophecies, its a cop out, why not say we heve been 6th for the last 3 seasons i want to improve on that?
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The point is - that it has been the same for many, many years ('81 -82) excepting. That's when we had a chance to take over. Shall we talk about it?
All clubs have a persona - Spuds and their passing style.?. West Ham Academy, (soft but skilful...) Manure, great players attacking footy. SHA. er..... oh yeah, "Losers" that's it.
Us, "Nearly Men".
Well done - erudite, insightful and most importantly you actually said it.
50 years I have supported this Club and it has (almost) always been the same.
Question is: I like what we stand for as a Club etc etc but would I want US to have Man City/Chelsea Millions and actually strive to be the very best in terms of winners of silverware? To have players of genuine World Class quality? Yes I bloody would. I mean Manchester or Liverpool are not a comparitive shangrilar in comparison with Brum is it, so it is not our City.
I feel we deserve to be respected as Winning Club and fifty years later I am still waiting for us to establish ourselves as such . I am fed up of "Fresh Starts" and "Five Year Plans". Docherty, Venglos, O Niel and Rene, etc..
The on going: "We have to re build. Fans must have Patience." I am patient but might die any minute.
However, to quote you: "The point is "...... we have little Choice. It's the Club we support and unlike the Glory Hunting ( unlike us as Glory HINTING) supporters we are stuck with it - it seems.
Anyway, Rant over. Good post. Well said. IMHO. But I am supportive of the new regime and of course live in hope.
Up The Villa mate
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We had a great opportunity in 08/09 really.
Even last season was a very good opportunity, we were 4th as late as the 37th game when Carew purts us 1 up at Man. City. Who knows we might have done it had the previous manager played Milner as a central midfielder earlier on in the season rather than at Xmas.
I don't expect us to be in the top 4 this season or even challenge for it and it's going to get very difficult once Man. City get in it which I reckon will be this season.
So playing at best for 5th and the domestic cups.
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I cant help thinking that we are destined to continue to be the Team that nearly becomes great.
MON has left us with a squad with lots of centre halves, ageing full backs and a few wingers and too many players the wrong side of 30, we dont have any players that are likely to score more than ten goals a season.
NRC has proved himself as a combatitive midfielder that lacks touch and vision, we have A Young who has talent but lacks delivery, Downing that has skill with no cutting edge. A centre forward that dosent score (Heskey) and another centre forward (Gabby) who is not a natural finisher. I cant see this squad of players taking us anywhere.
We are now in a fight to become the best of the rest and i dont see much differnce in the quality of our squad to that of Stoke, West Ham or Blackburn. We have a manager that tells us that we are a 6th to 12th team and our results confirm this, so what is the point?
Not being funny but why do people keep going back to his comments? What he means is that's where he sees us at the moment, He will almost certainly be trying to improve on that, Look at the teams in the league they are getting stronger and we aint got a bottomless pit of money.
beacuse every bloody interview he says the same thing, as recent as yesterday, talk about self fulfilling prophecies, its a cop out, why not say we heve been 6th for the last 3 seasons i want to improve on that?
On current form that's where we are? he's not going to say were definately gonna finish forth is he? Under promise over deliver and all that?
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I've got no problem with Houllier saying 6th - 12 etc. My problem is with the lack of competition in the premier league. It is now utterly based on money. Totally and utterly.
At the moment and as usual, like most teams, we haven't got enough. In fat we have more than most but not enough. This effectively means competition is null and void which renders my interest less enthusiastic at best and running on empty at worst.
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Yeah, Hawkeye. Up the Villa. I will get me wooden rattle out just now. Painted it my self. Nan knitted me scarf. And me bobble hat. I even painted me Doc Martins.
Oh ye of little Faith. :)
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We had a great opportunity in 08/09 really.
Even last season was a very good opportunity, we were 4th as late as the 37th game when Carew purts us 1 up at Man. City. Who knows we might have done it had the previous manager played Milner as a central midfielder earlier on in the season rather than at Xmas.
I don't expect us to be in the top 4 this season or even challenge for it and it's going to get very difficult once Man. City get in it which I reckon will be this season.
So playing at best for 5th and the domestic cups.
No chance for the cups, we =don't score enough goals. Like WBA, Blues and about 10 other teams. Ace.
Fuck me, this is depressing :) Good night all.
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There's not much between the teams placed 5th - 20th points wise.
The standard of this league is definately getting more even now.
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The point is - that it has been the same for many, many years ('81 -82) excepting. That's when we had a chance to take over. Shall we talk about it?
All clubs have a persona - Spuds and their passing style.?. West Ham Academy, (soft but skilful...) Manure, great players attacking footy. SHA. er..... oh yeah, "Losers" that's it.
Us, "Nearly Men".
Well done - erudite, insightful and most importantly you actually said it.
50 years I have supported this Club and it has (almost) always been the same.
Question is: I like what we stand for as a Club etc etc but would I want US to have Man City/Chelsea Millions and actually strive to be the very best in terms of winners of silverware? To have players of genuine World Class quality? Yes I bloody would. I mean Manchester or Liverpool are not a comparitive shangrilar in comparison with Brum is it, so it is not our City.
I feel we deserve to be respected as Winning Club and fifty years later I am still waiting for us to establish ourselves as such . I am fed up of "Fresh Starts" and "Five Year Plans". Docherty, Venglos, O Niel and Rene, etc..
The on going: "We have to re build. Fans must have Patience." I am patient but might die any minute.
However, to quote you: "The point is "...... we have little Choice. It's the Club we support and unlike the Glory Hunting ( unlike us as Glory HINTING) supporters we are stuck with it - it seems.
Anyway, Rant over. Good post. Well said. IMHO. But I am supportive of the new regime and of course live in hope.
sorry about your first point, happy to talk about it, i was there wnen we went to Villa Park in expectation not in hope, Gidman Little Gray Deehan Nichol Evans Morley Shaw Withe Mcnaught Cowans
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I'm a lot more optimistic than that. In fact, almost the opposite.
The following give me reason to be optimistic:
1. The emergence of Albrighton, Bannan and Clark has provided us with three excellent squad players and arguably three players for the first team. Just below that there are Delf, Lichaj, and Weimann.
2. Randy is the chairman and has demonstrated that he is prepared to spend money when required. This is against the back-drop of other clubs tightening the purse strings.
3. The players noted above means that we do not need to flesh out the squad. This suggests that big money can be spent on the missing links (imo - a ST and a DMC)
4. Delph will be back soon and is arguably a replacement for Petrov/NRC (a position where we needed to improve)
5. We have a new manager that will have contacts that opens up a new market of players
6. Some of our less talented but high paid players are nearing their departure. Sidwell, Carew, NRC (??) could all depart in the summer, reducing the wage bill and opening up spaces for us to buy new players.
We do need some younger full-backs, but they're probably one of the cheapest positions to fill as they players do not affect the spine of the team.
Do I think we'll win the league anytime soon? No, but there is hope that we can and will improve with a mix of our own youth players and exotic foreign signings. The early days suggest that we'll be playing a more attractive style of football to boot.
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Jesus the glass is half empty with some people at the moment. We haven't won for three or 4 games and people seem to be willing to talk themslves into a slough of despond. I'm actually feeling quite buoyant about all things Villa, yes I agree with many of the comments above but if you're a supporter then get on and support. I don't know whats going on with Villa supporters at the moment, a dull and lifeless display from us at home to Chelsea followed by one of the most downbeat away crowds I've seen for many a year away at Sunderland yesterday. What do we need to wake us all up?
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Why dont we give Houllier a chance and see what happens? Its a difficult month wins werent going to be easy but i think we've given a good account of ourselves so far just lack a little luck
Don't throw in the towel yet our day will come
Keep calm and carry on Villains - Get behind the boys!!
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The thing that pisses me off is that the likes of Everton manage to hold onto their best players, when they're in no better position to challenge than we are. You don't see Cahill or Arteta wanting to move on, though either of those could move on to one of the top four if they wanted. What is it that they're doing right and we're doing wrong?
Cahill and Arteta don't play for England
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Rigadon: Depressing? De fucking pressing? THIS ain't depressing. THIS is a(nother) fresh start.
Doncaster away, in the piddling rain - and losing. Now that was depressing.
I dunno, maybe we can actually press on from here. The squad is not bad, of course not Champions League but just maybe we can push on. Good Management Team, great Youth and Reserves and I feel an honest and involved group of Owners.
Just maybe this time. 50 years...... What was I doing?
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We always start the cycle of new manager, new players, good seasons, bad seasons, every 4 or 5 years.
In recent times the successful clubs have either had long serving managers (Fergie, Wenger) loads of money(Chelski, Citeh), or a close combination of both ( liverpool) we come close on both counts but fail to deliver.
I don't see us changing in the forseeable future, i look forward to another couple of Cup Finals in the next few years, and being top Midlands club, otherwise it's normal service at B6.
By the way i don't consider a 4th place finish as "winning anything"
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My point is if the manager says that 6th to 12th is ok then the players can achieve that and think they have done a good job, we can walk away from a defeat at sunderland and be 10th and think its ok, the one thing i know about leadership is the idea that you dont set targets that are easy to achieve
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The point is - that it has been the same for many, many years ('81 -82) excepting. That's when we had a chance to take over. Shall we talk about it?
All clubs have a persona - Spuds and their passing style.?. West Ham Academy, (soft but skilful...) Manure, great players attacking footy. SHA. er..... oh yeah, "Losers" that's it.
Us, "Nearly Men".
Well done - erudite, insightful and most importantly you actually said it.
50 years I have supported this Club and it has (almost) always been the same.
Question is: I like what we stand for as a Club etc etc but would I want US to have Man City/Chelsea Millions and actually strive to be the very best in terms of winners of silverware? To have players of genuine World Class quality? Yes I bloody would. I mean Manchester or Liverpool are not a comparitive shangrilar in comparison with Brum is it, so it is not our City.
I feel we deserve to be respected as Winning Club and fifty years later I am still waiting for us to establish ourselves as such . I am fed up of "Fresh Starts" and "Five Year Plans". Docherty, Venglos, O Niel and Rene, etc..
The on going: "We have to re build. Fans must have Patience." I am patient but might die any minute.
However, to quote you: "The point is "...... we have little Choice. It's the Club we support and unlike the Glory Hunting ( unlike us as Glory HINTING) supporters we are stuck with it - it seems.
Anyway, Rant over. Good post. Well said. IMHO. But I am supportive of the new regime and of course live in hope.
sorry about your first point, happy to talk about it, i was there wnen we went to Villa Park in expectation not in hope, Gidman Little Gray Deehan Nichol Evans Morley Shaw Withe Mcnaught Cowans
That's the difference: Expectation. A knowledge of our ability to succeed. Not Hope, but Expectation.
For the first time in a long time I think we will build that expectation of success again. My glass is a quarter full, but ready to be filled - not emptied.
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We always start the cycle of new manager, new players, good seasons, bad seasons, every 4 or 5 years.
In recent times the successful clubs have either had long serving managers (Fergie, Wenger) loads of money(Chelski, Citeh), or a close combination of both ( liverpool) we come close on both counts but fail to deliver.
It has to be said that, on this occasion, the cycle restarted because our manager walked out on us.
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cdward: Fourth place not winning anything? You are right. It would not be in our trophy cabinet and we would not be drinking to it in ten years. Winning something. Bloody hell I was at Wembley in '94 (and Spurs and Norwich in 70's) and I remember it. Only a League Cup but we WON it.
Your are right, fourth will never be remembered.
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We always start the cycle of new manager, new players, good seasons, bad seasons, every 4 or 5 years.
In recent times the successful clubs have either had long serving managers (Fergie, Wenger) loads of money(Chelski, Citeh), or a close combination of both ( liverpool) we come close on both counts but fail to deliver.
It has to be said that, on this occasion, the cycle restarted because our manager walked out on us.
MON was a spent force, its a shame that the boadrd did not realise/ act upon it earlier
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I was sort of thinking this sort of thing earlier, it struck me when I looked at the league and saw Liverpool and Everton who have been the shambles this season only 1 and 2 points behind us.
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MON was a spent force, its a shame that the boadrd did not realise/ act upon it earlier
I wouldn't say spent force exactly - because he might pitch up somewhere else and achieve similar results - but I agree that there were indications 12-18 months ago that he didn't quite cut it at the top level.
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My point is if the manager says that 6th to 12th is ok then the players can achieve that and think they have done a good job, we can walk away from a defeat at sunderland and be 10th and think its ok, the one thing i know about leadership is the idea that you dont set targets that are easy to achieve
Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
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My point is if the manager says that 6th to 12th is ok then the players can achieve that and think they have done a good job, we can walk away from a defeat at sunderland and be 10th and think its ok, the one thing i know about leadership is the idea that you dont set targets that are easy to achieve
Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
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During my lifetime there have been at least four occasions when we could have really pushed on and cemented ourselves as one of the elite.
The first (and best opportunity of all) was post 1982, when we had a EC winning starting XI with the likes of Brian McClair and Mark Walters in the youth team. There was an interview with Allan Evans not so long back where he said the biggest regret many of the senior pros had from that era is that we didn't push on, that if that side hadn't been broken up so quickly we could have gone on to dominate for years with the talent breaking through. Nevermind just being contenders.
After that we had GT's 89/90 side with Cowans, McGrath, Platt and Daley, BFR's side of 1992/93 and Brian Little's side mid 90's. There were other occasions too, not so much opportunities to be title contenders but periods that offered hope; the back end of the 90's with JG, mid noughties with DOL and of course 2008/09 with MON.
Now we have to contend with stupid cows like Gabby Logan patronising us after a good performance: "Aston Villa have shown how to play against the big clubs" the old sage wisely offered...after playing Tottenham.
Like it or not that's the perception out there. As recently as 1996 we were on about par with Arsenal for trophies won. Even now, despite their successful period of 98-2005 under Wenger - Invincibles et al- we're still only* six trophies off. But with each passing year that we don't compete it gets easier to dismiss us. Doesn't help when you have a manager saying our status in the game whenever he thinks of us is roughly 7th-12th.
Personally I don't even indulge in flights of fantasy about CL anymore. For one thing, I think that competition is deeply flawed and for another I just don't see it as achievable anytime soon. Probably for the size of club that we are it should be a goal, a vaguely realistic target. But It would take an extraordinary set of circumstances to see us pull it off in the near future.
I'd have just been happy with a stint in the Europa League and some big European nights back at VP. There are some big sides in it again this year Atletico Madrid, Sporting Lisbon, Dynamo Kiev, PSV, Zenit, Juventus and so on.
To treat it with the disdain we have in the past few years is an opportunity missed in my book. It provides a stage to enhance our reputation and give our players crucial experience. We might only appreciate it's importance when we're not even in a position to qualify for that via the league.
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Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
[/quote]
No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
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Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
[/quote] Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point
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Well as they say it's better to travel than get there...
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Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point
[/quote]
I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?
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I'm with Dave on this one. Houllier has said that's what he believes we are now but surely his ambition is to raise that in the time he's here.
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Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point
I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?
[/quote]By implication of saying we are a 6th to 12th club, what other conclusion can you draw from those comments? Please pick on some one else
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The way I see it is that we finished sixth last season, and it was going to be hard to improve on that anyway. Throw in you know-who's departure, the subsequent lack of new arrivals and Milner leaving, and you're left with a situation where seventh or eighth will be as comparable an achievement. That's not settling for mediocrity, it's a realistic assessment.
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Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point
I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?
By implication of saying we are a 6th to 12th club, what other conclusion can you draw from those comments? Please pick on some one else
[/quote]
He said that we had been a that phrase club. He also said that he was looking to improve on it. Do you not think anyone is allowed to disagree with you?
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I'm with Dave on this one. Houllier has said that's what he believes we are now but surely his ambition is to raise that in the time he's here.
well i have not heard him say that, and why keep repeating the same comment, its hardly inspiring is it?
As you know I was one of MONs bigest critics, i wanted him gone a long time ago, I just dont understand why GH at every interview says we are a 6th to 12th club
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That quote in full:
"It's a club that according to me has belonged between seventh and 12th place in the Premier League.
But, above all, it's a historic club which has won the European Cup. It's a club which has got good infrastructure and a fine team which is after one thing - to improve year on year."
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Except the manager never has said 6th to 12th is okay.
no he has said we are a 6th to 12th team, which means the same thing without being pedantic
No it doesn't, and I'm not too sure he said what you claim either.
Houlier has said many times that we are a 6th to 12th team , on the radio, on the TV as recently as an interview on SKY on Saturday i have heard him say this at least 5 times, i realy dont get your point
I don't get your point either. Where has he said it's okay to finish sixth-twelfth?
By implication of saying we are a 6th to 12th club, what other conclusion can you draw from those comments? Please pick on some one else
He said that we had been a that phrase club. He also said that he was looking to improve on it. Do you not think anyone is allowed to disagree with you?
[/quote]no i object to the sugestion that i am making stuff up, he keeps repeating that we are a 6th to 12th club sometimes he says 13th, i dont understand why he keeps saying this, it sounds like a cop out to me and gives the players an excuse
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Where does he "keep saying it"?
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That quote in full:
"It's a club that according to me has belonged between seventh and 12th place in the Premier League.
But, above all, it's a historic club which has won the European Cup. It's a club which has got good infrastructure and a fine team which is after one thing - to improve year on year."
yes that was the first interview, he has continually repeated the 6th 7th to 12th 13th
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Where does he "keep saying it"?
sorry you are right, he has never said it, never repeated it on every interview on radio 5 bbc sky or in news paper interviews, i made the whole thing up
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I'm just asking where he keeps saying it "in every interview," that's all.
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I'm just asking where he keeps saying it "in every interview," that's all.
Dave, i am sure that other posters on here that watched soccer saturday on sky yesterday will confirm that he said it again and in between the interview that you quoted he has said the same thing on at least 3 occaisions, you can choose to believe me or not.
I dont understand why he needs to keep saying this and as recently as yesterday.
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Once you get into a mindset of midtable it becomes acceptable to be beaten by those above you the expectation is that you will get beat so that's okay. The premiership hasn't been this even for a long time Chelsea aside most clubs are beatable, Man U, Liverpool are not what they were, Arsenal are not unbeatable
unfortunately we have lost the spark of two years ago and we badly need to get a few good players in. I thought in the second half we outplayed the opposition but we really need a captain with a hard edge to him a bit of a nasty bastard, we are really just too nice.
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The thing that pisses me off is that the likes of Everton manage to hold onto their best players, when they're in no better position to challenge than we are. You don't see Cahill or Arteta wanting to move on, though either of those could move on to one of the top four if they wanted. What is it that they're doing right and we're doing wrong?
That is an excellent post. A question that needs answering.
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I have often wondered this... the fact that Cahill and Arteta have been there for years is a real credit to the club. They seem to be able to get players to renew even when they are reaching the end of their contract and go anywhere for free (Saha).
Could it be that they have a real togetherness down at Everton, partly due to their intense hatred of their bitter rivals, Liverpool?
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Cahill and Arteta would be welcome additions at Villa but i wouldn't expect any of the top sides to be that interested.
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Arteta would grace every team in the Prem. The only reason he hasn't been tapped up in my opinion is because he seems to have one bad injury a season.
Cahill is too one dimensional for the top teams.
Culturally I do not think we're that different. They lost Lescott to Man City too remember.
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The thing that pisses me off is that the likes of Everton manage to hold onto their best players, when they're in no better position to challenge than we are. You don't see Cahill or Arteta wanting to move on, though either of those could move on to one of the top four if they wanted. What is it that they're doing right and we're doing wrong?
That is an excellent post. A question that needs answering.
Because Milner was a better, younger, more important player than either so they wanted him rather than Arteta or Cahill.
If Man City waved £150,000 under the nose of either of them they would off in a flash. Just like Lescott was.
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Arteta and Cahill may still be there, but has anyone approached them with ridiculous offers yet?
They sold Rooney and Lescott, we sold Barry and Milner.
They still have Cahill and Arteta, we still have Ash and Gabby.
It's pretty much a non-argument for me!
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Three points:
1. Yes, we are in a rut along with a number of other clubs; and I think we would have been anyway if MON had stayed. The difference is that if Houllier uses his talents and contacts to the full we will get better and rise above many of the current peers. Although I will suspend judgement on GH until after January, he potentially can make the difference, I believe. Oh, and don't start calling me a Houllier-acolyte: I'm sanguine enough to recognise that he has limitations.
2. GH is bound to try and manage expectations by saying 7-12th. He's also said that this is a club that should be punching its weight in the top 5-6.
3. Regarding the Everton situation, Everton's foreign stars (Arteta, Cahill, etc) have stayed; their English stars have been poached, as ours have been. I believe it's partially becuase teams need to improve their English quotient and are doing so by plundering the clubs with good player-development, like Villa.
(And, yes, I recognise that Arteta can qualify to be "English" by dint of residency.)
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Its very early in the season and the league hasn’t settled down yet. I think we’ll be in touch till January where we’ll be able to bring in a midfielder, Deplh and a striker. The problem we’ve got at the moment is Gabby being out injured and having never got his season going. Gabby will guarantee us more than 10 goals per season, just as he always has done and if you look at games like the weekend and Chelsea and you think somebody of his calibre would have had a much better chance of sticking the chances away.
Hopefully he’ll be back on Sunday, as we miss his pace and his goals.
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I must admit i am feeling down after the weekend but i think GH will come good for us in the end.
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With regard to Everton, has Pienaar signed his contract extension yet?
I think his contract expires at the end of the season, so he is clearly playing the same game as Young but the problem is more severe (for everton).
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I think there is a general feeling among the fan base that progress has stalled, if not not stopped. This is reflected in posting activity in internet forums and atmosphere at the games. The jury is now out awaiting evidence on Gerard Houllier's performance and the board's investment. Both are deserving of our full support.
I believe that this was inevitable, whatever happened in the close season, which of course did not help matters at all. In essence, we were never likely to spend the money required to challenge the CL places, regardless of who was manager. The question to be posed is: would a manager other that MoN have done much better given the same funds. And if so, how much better. In the end, MoN was cautious, but that seems to happen to all of our managers once they get to a certain point; I used to blame Doug for this.
Put simply, expectations were too high based on what was achievable. Progress will be slower, or to use another word steadier, and on more secure foundations. The infrastructure has been improved immeasurably.
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What? This post makes fuck all sense.
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Well done GH for trying to play down expectation, sad to see some fans using it as a means to denigrate a bloke after a handful of games, but desperate needs and all I suppose.
As to Everton seems to me when Man City wanted Lescott they got him, when Utd wanted Rooney they got him. They have Arteta and Cahill, we have Young, and Gabby. What are you all on about.
They have a manager that has stayed with them ours ran out on us, leaving a squad of disgruntled players.
lets see what the new guy achieves before we draw too many doom conclusions
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According to reports, and quotes from owners, regarding Man City's transfer policy, one of their intentions is to weaken the teams around them. In the summer rumours abounded regarding not only Arteta but Torres, Modric and Milner, only one ended up going.
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Impression I'm getting is that we are lacking a 'talisman' or
'Holte End Hero' type of player that is capable of doing something
on the pitch that will get the fans standing up in expectation -
There were times the season before last that Young7 was the guy
that excited the crowd, and the sometimes misplaced adoration of
Carew by the HolteEnders -
I'd like to believe that we have such a player who can produce
such excitement and expectation - Bannan/Albrighton in the future
and a certain Stephen Ireland in the coming months !!!???
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What? This post makes fuck all sense.
Before I read in Off Topic that you were trying to give up smoking crack, I was going to ask if you were menstruating.