Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: UsualSuspect on October 23, 2010, 06:52:30 PM
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I know you don't want to be at Villa and would much rather be having your eyebrows threaded or getting more shit tattoos - but at least could you try and look fucking interested
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Bit harsh, I don't think he's not trying.
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Couple of things with this.
IMO you'll only see the best of Ireland when Gabby is back.
Ireland needs a pacy forward for his throughballs, I'm not just making this up as we saw it with him and Robinho at City.
Remember someone like Modric who I think is a similar player to Ireland wasn't pulling up any trees in his first few months at Spurs so we have to factor in a settling in process.
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Needs time to bed in. That is why I wasn't keen on the idea of him coming into the team as a starter or the particularly laughable suggestion of him replacing Petrov.
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Harsh indeed. The lad has hardly played in 12-months and will need to time to both get his sharpness back and also integrate with the team.
His/our problem is that the role he plays is such a crucial one (the attacking lynchpin) that it will be hard for us to carry him for a long period, however I think our patience will be rewarded.
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Ireland will come good, give him a chance. Getting on his back will not help the bloke.
Following the last 3 seasons we now have high expectations and become disgruntled when we aren't beating teams we expect us to.
We need to accept this season will be a transitional one with a finish around 7th-10th and hopefully we can have a good run in the cups.
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Needs time. Needs the team to really click into Gerards way of playing too, to get the best out of him.
Also, lets not forget, he's only played a couple of times in his best position. His first couple of months here, he was played far too deep.
He'll be alright, and he's a quality player.
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Nothing about not being interested, more a case of not being good enough and not fit to lace the boots of Milner.
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See "Downing - Season 2009/10." and compare with Season 2010 - 11.
Needs time to get match fit and used to playing with the others. Tried a couple of through balls today that were just cut out otherwise (forget who) would have been through on goal. Lacked a bit of pace when he was through and tried to turn back inside and lost the ball.
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Nothing about not being interested, more a case of not being good enough and not fit to lace the boots of Milner.
Different type of player, when he's up and running he'll give us more going forward than Milner ever did. We'll need NRC to keep playing well (and ideally Petrov upgraded) for the midfield to click.
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I think X footballer is only putting Y amount of effort and blah blah blah
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Ladies and gentlemen, presenting the latest fan's scapegoat.
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Against Chelsea, he was continually getting frustrated at not getting the ball, constantly looking for it, and frequently making use of space to pop up in useful positions.
The problem was that we weren't getting the ball to him anything like enough. When we did, he invariably did something useful with it.
It seems more than a little harsh to write a player off after a handful of games having moved from a club he'd spent his entire career at. If a player consistently doesn't do it for us, then it's fair enough to have a moan at him, but it seems a little bit much to do so when the player has only been here five minutes.
We were doing the same at Downing last season, and - in my opinion - he has been our best player this season so far.
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Absolute cobblers - he's a very good player trying to adapt to a new team. You'll be sucking him off once the goals start going in.
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I really think this is all very harsh. He barely played last season, has come into a club which was in chaos at the time and he's been played out of position for most of his games.
He is a quality player without question who was treated incredibly badly at Citeh. He is the sort of character who won't respond well to people getting on his back after a couple of sub par performances.
Get behind him and we'll soon see the creative type of player we've not had since probably Merse.
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I've noticed that he makes runs/plays balls that actually seem too clever for the rest of the team to anticipate. Hopefully they will get on the same wavelength sooner rather than later.
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I love the way whenever someone's not playing welll, fans immediately accuse them of not trying. It wasn't lack of application that was the problem, it was lack of confidence and touch
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The team need to get used to playing with Ireland, he looks like he wants the ball in tight positions but doesn't always get the ball. There were times v Chelsea though when he went missing, he doesn't seem to do much when we haven't got the ball.
It's a bit early to say whether he's the new Sasa Curcic.
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He has clearly struggled but it would be daft to write him off after 2 months. He's having to adapt to a new group of players who in turn are having to adapt to a new manager and a new style of play. He was 6 inches away from putting us 1 up yesterday as he was against Chelsea. The biggest problem he's got is that Ashley Young is our best player and currently he is most effective in the area that Ireland wants to play. It's up to the manager to find a way to accommodate them both.
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Against Chelsea, he was continually getting frustrated at not getting the ball, constantly looking for it, and frequently making use of space to pop up in useful positions.
The problem was that we weren't getting the ball to him anything like enough. When we did, he invariably did something useful with it.
It seems more than a little harsh to write a player off after a handful of games having moved from a club he'd spent his entire career at. If a player consistently doesn't do it for us, then it's fair enough to have a moan at him, but it seems a little bit much to do so when the player has only been here five minutes.
We were doing the same at Downing last season, and - in my opinion - he has been our best player this season so far.
This.
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Think Gerard should have a chat with Sven Goran Eriksson or Stuart Pearce to see if they can offer some suggestion to get best out of Stephen Ireland as they used to manage him at Man City.
Is Michael Johnson is the missing link ?
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Against Chelsea, he was continually getting frustrated at not getting the ball, constantly looking for it, and frequently making use of space to pop up in useful positions.
The benefit of Ireland doing this and then laying the ball off is that he forces the centre halved to come out of position to prressure him, unfortunately neither Carew or Heskey is mobile enough to take full advantage of this. I think we might not see the best of Ireland until Gabby is back, which in turn is pretty hard on Heskey.
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Harsh.. Give the player a chance.... hes a good player.
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When Milner came back from Newcastle, I seem to remember that he struggled for quite a while and got quite a bit of stick. In fact, he never really blossomed at Villa until MON moved him into the middle.
Ireland is a very good player. Give him time.
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A good pre-season is very important. Got a feeling we won't see the best out of Ireland until next season. Bit like Downing this season so far.
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A good pre-season is very important. Got a feeling we won't see the best out of Ireland until next season. Bit like Downing this season so far.
Never thought of it like that, but Downing came in very late, hopefully Ireland can make an impact in the coming weeks, cus you wont see much more onominus performances!
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I think confidence is a factor too. There were two occasions yesterday, one in the first half and one in the second when Heskey had put him through, where he should have taken the shot on, but didn’t.
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See Paul Merson, He was the best midfielder we've had in years but he didn't settle in straight away, Neither did Downing or Young or indeed Milner.
Give the bloke a break ffs
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See Paul Merson, He was the best midfielder we've had in years but he didn't settle in straight away, Neither did Downing or Young or indeed Milner.
Give the bloke a break ffs
This.I'm absolutely convinced he's going to be fantastic for us
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Didn't have a proper pre-season, didn't play much last season, adapting to new surroundings... He'll come good I'm sure but he'll need time.
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I've noticed that he makes runs/plays balls that actually seem too clever for the rest of the team to anticipate. Hopefully they will get on the same wavelength sooner rather than later.
Savo was a bit like that!
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He is an intelligent player and he will come right in time. Give him time to settle in. It's must be more difficult for him than others, new team, a new manager & style, he's been injured and hasn't played a lot in the last year. He will get better, I'm convinced of it.
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As Alan Partridge would say: "Dez moar tuh Oylund, tan tis!"
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An interesting quote from the Guardian's match report. This sums up what I have suspected with Ireland. He needs to feel loved in order to fulfill his potential. The whole superman thing at Man City would have suited him and encouraged him to play, whereas the international retirement thing never struck me as quite right.
I digress the quote:
Ireland – described by insiders at his former club, Manchester City as "in the top 5% talent wise, but the bottom 5% mental-strength wise"
If we can transfer the carew lovin towards Ireland then we'll be quids in.
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He's a good player, as he demonstrated at Man City before they started spending.
I think he's just lacking confidence at the moment and is therefore hiding sometimes in matches.
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Ladies and gentlemen, presenting the latest fan's scapegoat.
Nah. It's gonna be a toss up between Dunne and Warnock this season I reckon.
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I don't buy this scapegoat thing. The players mentioned have been criticised when they've performed poorly. I have no idea why this makes them scapegoats.
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I don't buy this scapegoat thing. The players mentioned have been criticised when they've performed poorly. I have no idea why this makes them scapegoats.
I can't remember what game it was, but last season we lost a match where the goals against came down our left hand side and most people blamed it on Cuellar being at RB.
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I can see why that is scapegoating someone as he was blamed for losing when it wasn't necessarily his fault. I still fail to see how criticising someone when they have actually performed poorly is
making them a scapegoat.
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Because it becomes the fashionable thing to do and people will start automatically blaming player x no matter what actually happens during the game.
For instance, why is a thread starting about Stephen Ireland when we lost a game due to a stupid own goal by Dunne?
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I think that maybe playing him a little deeper in the Petrov role alongside NRC role may be worth looking at. We seem to be pigeon-holing him a bit as being a player who is a luxury in midfield and therefore can only play in a three-man midfield, but i seem to recall him playing in a central midfield two with relative success at City.
He will get plenty of the ball playing in that role, and won't have to get up and down the pitch quite as much so may last a bit longer than an hour before flagging, and he has Reo-Cokes to do his tackling. All he has to do is post a position to protect back four, be available to receive the ball regularly and then show off his passing skills and vision, which are two of his strengths.
I'm not saying that ultimately that would be his position, but think that it may be worth a look whilst he's 'acclimatising' to see what he can offer. i can only see a place on the bench for him otherwise at the moment, as surely Downing, Albrighton and Ash Young are the first choice trio behind the main striker.
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Ireland was at his best at Man City as part of a quick front three along with Bellamy and Robinho. I think we could re-create that here with Gabby and Young, with a midfield/attack of -
--------------------Reo-Coker--------------------
------------Petrov-------------Sidwell-----------
---Ireland------------------------------Young---
--------------------Agbonlahor-------------------
Obviously just based on who we have available until January 1st.
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That would mean dropping either Albrighton or Downing for Sidwell, which I think would weaken us.
I think the present 4-4-1-1 is OK, we just need to get Gabby back so we have a greater goal threat.
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Next time Heskey twists something or other I'd try Ireland and Young up front in a sort of 4-6-0 (the Brazil version rather than the Scottish).
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Next time Heskey twists something or other I'd try Ireland and Young up front in a sort of 4-6-0 (the Brazil version rather than the Scottish).
Captain Black on MOTD is always going on about the effectiveness of 2 banks of four, so a bank of four and a bank of six could be just what the doctor ordered. Don't rule out two banks of five or my earlier revolutionary idea of revolving diamonds.
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He really was absolute bollocks on Saturday, hardly in the game at all. But I don't think it was down to not trying. He'll still come good, I reckon. An excellent player at times at Man City, and I can't see that he's lost that all of a sudden. It's worth remembering that he had very little in the way of match practice in the latter part of his time at Eastlands.
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The lad is quality
He is the type of player the team needs to get used to
we used to be wing oriented=always trying to get it wide
now SI is popping up in midfield and trying little flicks etc that the other players will get the hang of soon -I hope
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Stephen Birmingham (our Dublin Lions don't appreciate the correct one) is without doubt
a talented footballer, capable of dictating a game, creating for others and scoring goals
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I watched him closely during the Chelsea match and he appeared to always want the
ball to feet but on numerous occasions was ignored, in particular by Downing.
Nothing much happened for him at Sunderland and it was no surprise that Houllier
subbed him -
Agree with the comment that return of Gabby could help the guy, as opposed to
a front man of Heskey or Carew
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The point above that we are so used to attacking from the wings is very relevant in Ireland's case. He often shows for players asking them to pass between two defenders (arguably a more risky pass). Whereas when we were so wing based the passes were outside the defenders, or when lack confidence/territory the hoof down the wide channels.
Basically playing the way we do now will demand a change of focus. Ireland naturally suits this system but it may take time for the others (centre backs / Centre Midfielders) to realise that there other passes than merely outside the defense.
The next stage is to get the other players to move off this pivot but I've bored you enough already.
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Agree with most of the above, buy why can't a midfield player on massive wages adapt to a few systems? He has been v poor so far, even when simple technique would have yielded results e.g. missing far post 1v1 on Cech?