Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on October 23, 2010, 10:11:47 AM
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Available Saturday evening.
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(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8774/houllier.jpg) (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/houllier.jpg/)
Ouais, moi aussi...
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I really don't understand how that happened.
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Not good enough!!! kind of guessed the result after the first 26 mins.
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Terrible first half and once again goals are the problem.
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really good second half performance, but the lack of a killer instinct is er...killing us. Very disappointed that we lost, but we need to address the last third of the pitch desperately. Downing and NRC were brilliant. Ash was massively disappointing.
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crap we need to get the ball in the box more and with one man upfront it doesn't work for us.
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I can only assume that Halsey and Dunne had both bet massively on the result being 1-0.
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Must buy striker.
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Only saw second half. Played some good stuff but couldn't score which is frustratingly par for the course.
Thought we were unlucky not to get a penalty.
Heskey is back to his awful worst in front of goal.
Agree that Downing and Coker played very well.
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Worrying just how poor Ireland was and much better the team played when he wasn't on the pitch. And why Cuellar isn't playing is beyond me.
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Small Heath tougher than ever now.
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Terrible first half, slightly better second half. They are a very poor team and we never looked like beating them. A very hard long season I reckon, but hey, at least we pass it around better.
Yay.
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Can't expect to win games, especially away games, by only turning up for 45 minutes. Yes the ref had a shocker but not enough of our players had really good games, certainly not enough to break down a resilient Sunderland.
Ireland and Ashley were pretty anonymous in the first half, but we looked much much better after Ash switched to the middle and Albrighton provided some pace and penetration on the wing. That seems to be the way to go for us, but where does that leave Ireland?
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I cant stand Halsee, ok the bloke has been ill but he obviously hates us, a dodgy own goal inept refereeing and poor execution in the box, but i think we were the better team
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Yet again we have a lot of possession up to the final 3rd of the pitch yet cannot convert chances. Have we turned into Everton, good passing and build up play but no end product.
On a side note that bloody ref was appalling. I hope we never see him at Villa Park.
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Must buy striker.
Yeah like 2 seasons ago..
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Small Heath tougher than ever now.
Is Warnock banned for that game now?
Lichaj left-back presumably.
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Jesus Christ we are dying for a new fucking striker. Had the chances. Referee was a ****** 2 clear penalties. Fucking Halsey you baldy ******.
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Reo-Coker was really good.
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Hard to be too angry. 60 minutes of that game was absolutely excellent. NRC, Downing, Heskey all excelled. But you can't see too many goals in that team.
I'd say it was fairly predictable that after MON leaving, we would play better football, but get worse results. And that's exactly what's happening. Worrying that we keep on losing away from home. And worrying that we have lost every game we've gone behind in this season, but have let teams do the opposite to us twice.
A fit and on form Gabby in that team, with Ashley behind him, would make a huge difference to our threat.
I do like to see us playing proper football more frequently though.
I think criticism of the first half performance has been over the top. We had 3 brilliant chances.
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Give me 3 points over nice little passes any day of the week.
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Oh and I don't buy the argument that the formation doesn't work. Go away from home to a team with that defensive record and create at least 5 chances you would expect to score and you can't say it's lack of bodies in the box that is hurting us. It's crap finishing and lack of composure.
Downing has been our player of the season so far.
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So out of 9 Premiership games we've won 3!
Pretty much sums up the football we've been playing so far this season, one word 'Dire'
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Must buy striker.
Yeah like 2 seasons ago..
Yup.
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How has our football been dire this season? That's not the problem. But we do have problems.
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How has our football been dire this season? That's not the problem. But we do have problems.
The main one being we can't win a game of football.
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Ash was shit. We looked a poor side against another poor side .........
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edited
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Oh and I don't buy the argument that the formation doesn't work. Go away from home to a team with that defensive record and create at least 5 chances you would expect to score and you can't say it's lack of bodies in the box that is hurting us. It's crap finishing and lack of composure.
Downing has been our player of the season so far.
Very much so. It's so clearly the finishing that's letting us down. Houllier must see it and I expect it sorted at Christmas or we can look forward to more of the same.
As an aside, why didn't Halsey book Downing if he saw that as a dive? I haven't seen properly enough to know either way, but Halsey HAS to book Downing for cheating or give a penalty.
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How has our football been dire this season? That's not the problem. But we do have problems.
agree we could have won today and at spurs, mistakes and a lack of goal scoring is the problem
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Fucking Halsey you baldy c***.
Seriously?
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Oh and I don't buy the argument that the formation doesn't work. Go away from home to a team with that defensive record and create at least 5 chances you would expect to score and you can't say it's lack of bodies in the box that is hurting us. It's crap finishing and lack of composure.
Downing has been our player of the season so far.
Very much so. It's so clearly the finishing that's letting us down. Houllier must see it and I expect it sorted at Christmas or we can look forward to more of the same.
As an aside, why didn't Halsey book Downing if he saw that as a dive? I haven't seen properly enough to know either way, but Halsey HAS to book Downing for cheating or give a penalty.
it looked like downing slipped
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
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Ash was crap in the first half, but when he played behind the striker he set up two great chances for Downing and Heskey. We looked transformed when he moved there.
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Fucking Halsey you baldy c***.
Seriously?
He doesn't look very bald to me. But the rest of it is very accurate.
Not seen as bad a refereeing performance as that in a long time.
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Fucking Halsey you baldy c***.
Seriously?
Yeah that's a bit much.
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Decent second half but our inability to turn possession into goals has cost us again.
I don't quite know how to put this without causing a riot on here but I thought Sidwell did pretty well when he came on.
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Fucking Halsey you baldy c***.
Seriously?
Yeah that's a bit much.
Which bit? The bald bit, or the c*** bit?
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
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Decent second half but our inability to turn possession into goals has cost us again.
I don't quite know how to put this without causing a riot on here but I thought Sidwell did pretty well when he came on.
I agree in fact i think his best performance
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The bald bit, because his performance today was c*nty.
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We are really hurting without Gabby's pace. We created enough chances to win this game by a good distance so from that perspective the signs are encouraging. I think Downing is turning into the player we all hoped he would be, and NRC and Collins were very good. Friedel did very little, Heskey/Sidders solid. After that the others need to up their game. We need much more pace in the team, and I hope above everything Houllier sees that too.
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Decent second half but our inability to turn possession into goals has cost us again.
I don't quite know how to put this without causing a riot on here but I thought Sidwell did pretty well when he came on.
I agree in fact i think his best performance
Certainly for a long time. Won most things in the air and looked very lively going forward.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
It's 4 points under GH and SHA are 11th were 9th
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How has our football been dire this season? That's not the problem. But we do have problems.
The main one being we can't win a game of football.
We play good for the odd 15 minutes here and there, when i say good i mean we retain possession and knock it about a bit, if we don't put the game to bed in our brightest spell when will we?
I've been watching sunderland this season and i'll go as far as saying that they play much better football than we do, it kind of showed today we left we nothing!!
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
It's 4 points and SHA are 11th wer 9th
It's one point.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
so you're already judging the man after 4 league games, 3 of which have been away from home, and the home game against the current champions?
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
It's 4 points and SHA are 11th wer 9th
It's 1 point.
1 Chelsea 9 5 0 0 16 0 2 1 1 9 2 23 22
2 Man City 8 3 1 0 7 2 2 1 1 5 3 7 17
3 Tottenham 9 2 2 1 6 4 2 1 1 5 4 3 15
4 West Brom 9 3 2 0 8 4 1 1 2 5 11 -2 15
5 Arsenal 8 3 0 1 14 5 1 2 1 4 5 8 14
6 Man Utd 8 3 1 0 11 4 0 4 0 7 7 7 14
7 Sunderland 9 2 3 0 5 3 0 3 1 3 4 1 12
8 Bolton 9 1 3 0 6 5 1 3 1 7 8 0 12
9 Aston Villa 9 2 2 0 5 1 1 0 4 4 12 -4 11
10 Everton 9 1 2 1 6 5 1 2 2 3 3 1 10
11 Birmingham 9 2 2 1 4 3 0 2 2 6 9 -2 10
12 Stoke 8 2 1 1 5 4 1 0 3 4 7 -2 10
edit: Just realised you mean 4 ponts for GH, sorry.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
It's 4 points and SHA are 11th wer 9th
It's not. They won today which takes them 1 point behind us.
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Can't score and that worries me with next week's game in mind.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
It's 4 points and SHA are 11th wer 9th
It's one point.
Meant we've got 4 points under GH not 2
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
It's 4 points and SHA are 11th wer 9th
It's one point.
Meant we've got 4 points under GH not 2
*lightbulb flashing*
Got you - sorry.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
They're a point behind us.
And didn't we beat Wolves in those four games? That's four points surely. Basically, the only bit that's true about that sentence is that we're playing Small Heath next week.
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Hope Stan's injury isn't too bad - midfield would be a bit lightweight without him against the knuckledraggers
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Hope Stan's injury isn't too bad - midfield would be a bit lightweight without him against the knuckledraggers
I'd play Sidwell instead. Petrov has been cack for most this season.
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I cant stand Halsee, ok the bloke has been ill but he obviously hates us, a dodgy own goal inept refereeing and poor execution in the box, but i think we were the better team
I don't think he hates us, that's a mad suggestion ..... he's just a crap ref.
In fact, the Prem is jam packed with crap refs these days .
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I cant stand Halsee, ok the bloke has been ill but he obviously hates us, a dodgy own goal inept refereeing and poor execution in the box, but i think we were the better team
I don't think he hates us, that's a mad suggestion ..... he's just a crap ref.
In fact, the Prem is jam packed with crap refs these days .
Most of the crap referees give bad decisions against both teams though.
I don't think he hates us either - but today was ridiculous.
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I cant stand Halsee, ok the bloke has been ill but he obviously hates us, a dodgy own goal inept refereeing and poor execution in the box, but i think we were the better team
I don't think he hates us, that's a mad suggestion ..... he's just a crap ref.
In fact, the Prem is jam packed with crap refs these days .
And crap teams. The level of mediocrity in all aspects of the game is stunning and has reached its zenith in my opinion this season....
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O'Neill's inability to sign a striker cost us while he was here, and now that he's thankfully moved on, it's still costing us.
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I'm worried about our mentality more than anything. Ged is such a different character to MON that I have a feeling it has impacted on our belief and determination.
But if Heskey taps in from 2 yards, or Downing's shot is half a foot to the side, or the ref gives either of 2 penalties, we'd have been talking about a really good performance. We will need to adjust to a new style this season and it's going to take a while.
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can you have a zenith of mediocrity?
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Hope Stan's injury isn't too bad - midfield would be a bit lightweight without him against the knuckledraggers
Ligament damage is expected to be out for 3 weeks
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can you have a zenith of mediocrity?
You can in my book Damon, though I admit you might be right. Whatever it is, we have slipped right into it. Football has never been so boring....
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I hate Sidwell, but I thought he played pretty well to be honest. Beye did well too. So the injury I'm most worried about is Gabby. We need goals! I hope he's lost ohis tummy as well. He always scores against Blues.
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Think Clark will be left back. Luke Young is much better on the ball but Beye is improving so Id nearly keep him in the side. Apart from Warnock we look very solid defensively. Warnock is finished imo spends all his time on the ground, hobbling or getting done for pace - just hope Clark can make an impression at left back. I still think we can have a good second half to the season. But we have to be more clinical. Heskey did alright but he isnt a goal threat. Some of his efforts today were shocking really.
There are positives though - four good options at centre half maybe even Davies aswell if reports of his performances at Leicester are to be believed, Beye and Luke Young coming back from semi retirement to look more than capable EPL players, Reo Coker had his best game in a Villa shirt today even Sidwell showed something. Downing is much better this season, Young in the hole looks really good, Albrighton, Bannan coming through as options and Heskey has done alright. A fit Gabby and Delph would add hugely too. I cant see us conceeding too many goals this season really either.
Negatives - not scoring, creating great chances but not getting it done. Carew,Petrov and Warnock seem in terminal decline. Ireland has been really poor and Milner is a massive loss to our midfield. Still though get to January in touch and we could make a burst for it.
Looking towards January or long term - some of MON's core players need replacing - Warnock, Petrov, Carew, Heskey even Friedel are on their last legs. Luke Young and Beye are in their 30s too so a long term replacement at right back is needed too. We are carrying a centre half too many (Beye can fill in too if needed) - think we might have to cash in on Cuellar there is bound to be interest. I really think Gokhan Inler would be a superb addition to our midfield, Enrique would hardly leave Toon midseason but maybe next summer. A striker as always the priority - Kershakov gave an exhibition in the lone striker role against Ireland last month, I'm a fan of Payluchenko too cant understand how Crouch starts ahead of him at Spurs and with Defoe coming back he might be persuaded.
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Sucks to lose to a team like Sunderland and I can honestly say we did NOT deserve to lose. We played some nice football again, but for all our efforts another Dunne cock-up cost us the game.
Oh well, beat the scum next week and things will look a lot brighter.
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Give me 3 points over nice little passes any day of the week.
Yes but that is an utterly facile argument. Were we not relying upon a hideously unfit and error prone Dunne and had the opportunity to bring in players in the summer (for whatever reason we didn't) we would be playing better football and possibly getting the result. Good football and good results are not mutually exclusive, quite the opposite in fact.
We are not doing well enough in defence for me. I don't think that can be blamed upon the regime change as Dunne was badly conditioned at the start of the season and Warnock has been getting gradually worse and worse since half way through the season. I'd like to see Clark and Cuellar come in (I think Warnock is suspended so would assume that he wouldn't be available) against SHA and would hope nay, would think they would do better based on how they have done on performances so far.
In midfield I'd like to see Albrighton come in. It just hasn't clicked for Ireland yet and so we should resort back to our pre-Chelsea midfield (fuck help us if Petrov isn't available).
In attack, Heskey has done well but I really cannot wait until Gabs is back fit.
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*bing-bong* this is a public service announcement.
`Where Eagles Dare' is on five at the moment. They've just got to the inn near the castle.
Thank you.
*bing-bong*
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Meanwhile, the Olbiyon are 4th.
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can you have a zenith of mediocrity?
I once had a Russian camera called a Zenith, which was far from advanced in terms of features.
Nadir of mediocrity would probably be a more apposite expression. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
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O'Neill's inability to sign a striker cost us while he was here, and now that he's thankfully moved on, it's still costing us.
his inability to sign a really good one was the issue - Heskey, Harewood, Maloney etc but then again Gabby developed hugely under MON and John Carew has been a very good player for the club I'd argue.
With regards to the striker issue, the 2007/08 season, Carew was injured most of the season and top scored with 13 league goals. Yet it was the same season we scored 71 goals the highest since 1982. The replacement of Laursen and Davies by Dunne and Collins has really tightened us up at the back since those days but we had more of a goalthreat from set pieces then. Not all Ashley Young's fault, the movement in the opposition box is diabolical these days. Gareth Barry used create and score a good few too back then aswell and we dont have the type of guile he provided centrally at the moment. I think we need our full back to push on more with the likes of Reo Coker and Sidwell in midfield they can afford to, work on our set pieces and shoot more.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
so you're already judging the man after 4 league games, 3 of which have been away from home, and the home game against the current champions?
No I am not judging him and anyway I have got it wrong on points as others pointed out.
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Sidwell made a difference when he came on, as did Ash when he went in the "hole".
1st half Cattermole and Henderson dominated NRC and Petrov far too much, 2nd half Sidwells combativeness made a difference.
We need Gabby back asap, Heskey for all his good play does not look like scoring, and Ireland was off the pace.
Shame, because we lookedquite comfortable defensively.A bit half soaked in the 1st half cost us.We need to be up for it from the start.
Beye had another good game, but Warnock.....bloody hell.
Wish we would have bought Onohua though.
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Meanwhile, the Olbiyon are 4th.
Boing Boing.
What goes up must come down!
At least one team above us that shan't stay there.
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I'm worries we now look like a 7th to 12th team, just like the baggies.
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We can put thing's right on wednesday against burnley and against the scum next weekend.
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Decent second half but our inability to turn possession into goals has cost us again.
I don't quite know how to put this without causing a riot on here but I thought Sidwell did pretty well when he came on.
I thought all those rejected by O'Neill did well enough, and his star turns were both poor.
Says something for Houllier, but we need wins not good second half performances, and a continual slip into that zone of desperation.
Oh why is Dunne played ?
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Doing this on my phone so fuck knows if it will work or not, anyway...
What a pile of shit that was, ok we had a fair bit of the ball 2nd half and could have scored but we hardly created a chance with that posession and their keeper hardly made a save. That first half was diabolical, we looked like a very poor side and we look very limited. I thought Heskey did well apart from the sitter he missed but at the end of the day strikers are judged on goals and lets face it none of our strikers are anywhere near good enough, 9 goals in 9 games shows that. That is a very worrying statistic imo, especially when our defence is all over the shop. Our stikers are shit but there simply aren't enough goals in the team, our defenders rarely pop up, and our midfielders especially our central midfielders don't score enough. We don't look to have an awful lot of quality or creativity in the side and i think we could really struggle this season.
Warnock was crap and has been all season. He's so slow and gets beat so easily.
Dunne was crap and has been all season. 8 own goals now in his career, that to me shows a clumsy, error-prone defender. Go on a diet you big, clumsy oaf. Play Cuellar ffs!
Petrov was invisible, apart from his pussy tackle for the goal. We DON'T miss him.
Ireland is the new Sidwell. Seriously what does he do?! I haven't seen him do anything yet in any game he's played and to be honest i don't think he ever actually wanted to leave Man City and come here.
Sidwell was the old Sidwell. Invisible.
NRC had a good game, how wasn't he getting in the team instead of Petrov last season?!
Downing hit the post and then spent the rest of the game passing the ball to their players. Very weak again.
Ashley Young was abysmal, again, until he moved in field where he was marginally better. If theres a more overrated, predictable player in the league then i'm yet to see him. Get him off the wing, he's too predictable and he rarely beats his man, play him behind Heskey and get Albrighton back in. Oh and someone get him off the corners, his delivery is shit.
On a different day we could have got a point but the fact is we didn't do enough to get it, and even if we had i'd still be worried by our lack of creativity and goals. We HAVE to beat Blues next week, no excuses, otherwise i could see us being dragged right down the table.
Oh and one final thing, what has happened to our away support?! Okish numbers, although Sunderland would have brought 3000 to us, but one of the worst away atmospheres for years. Even 2nd half when we were pressing a bit there wasn't any singing, we must have sung about 5 times all game. It's been on the decline for a while imo but today was rubbish, and this following empty seats and poor noise at Newcastle even at 0-0, empty seats at Stoke but good atmosphere, shocking atmosphere at Wolves, average at Spurs with lots sitting and hardly persistent chanting. Just a couple of years ago our away fans would go everywhere and sing all game no matter what the score, now it seems they're becoming like our home fans and only sing if we're winning
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I'm worries we now look like a 7th to 12th team, just like the baggies.
Early days but they really look like a top 6 side.
As for us, we need Gabby back. We don't have a natural goal scorer in the team. Heskey, Downing, Ashley, Ireland and Albrighton, not one of them looks a real threat. Good at what they do but not players that will score ten, nevermind 20 goals a season and we're still shit from set pieces and corners. I just can't see where the goals are going to come from.
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Missed the first half, wasn't on at my usual haunt so had to hot-foot it in a hail storm to the Royal. So missed the obligatory Dunney own goal for the season (not that he should have been on the pitch to score it).
Second half was huff and puff but apart from a decent five minute spell, I never got the feeling we'd score.
In fairness Sunderland are good at home, only lost 3 at home under Bruce in 20 odd games.
God knows what Heskey was doing for his miss, surely as a forward you anticipate the keeper missing the cross which he did. I doubt Bent would've missed that chance.
We need Gabby back a.s.a.p as for all his good form, we simply won't score enough with Heskey as the lone forward. Also can someone please tell me what influence Young really has in the free role? I'd flog him in January. We won't finish in the top 4 with or without him this season and he's deluded if he thinks he'll get in the Spurs team.
Forget the feeling of a Villa team being crap away from home.
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can you have a zenith of mediocrity?
Oh yes. We are, after all, on the crest of a slump.
And we are all in this alone.
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I'm worries we now look like a 7th to 12th team, just like the baggies.
A description that also fits almost every team in the premier league, bar about 4 clubs who hardly have any English players...a sea of mind numbing mediocrity dressed up as the most exciting league in the world by a media with a hugely vested interest in claiming thus. Roll on the next World Cup to put it all into perspective for a few weeks...
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The league's poor this season, hardly anyone's winning away and so many draws.
We have no chance of challenging the top 4 but I still don't see why we won't be in the mix for top 6.
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I'm sure gerard has seen we are crying out for a prolific scorer and will address that problem in January , this is a transition stage and we were unlucky today- things will improve and I feel very optimistic about the next 3 yrs.
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I'm worries we now look like a 7th to 12th team, just like the baggies.
A description that also fits almost every team in the premier league, bar about 4 clubs who hardly have any English players...a sea of mind numbing mediocrity dressed up as the most exciting league in the world by a media with a hugely vested interest in claiming thus. Roll on the next World Cup to put it all into perspective for a few weeks...
Mr Moore you're turning into a right misery-guts.
At least Pompey's result today (their last ever) might cheer you up a bit.
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This has probably already been said lots but..
1. Why the hell is Cuellar not playing?
2. Buy a bloody striker!
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This has probably already been said lots but..
1. Why the hell is Cuellar not playing?
2. Buy a bloody striker!
That's a seconding from me too.
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This has probably already been said lots but..
1. Why the hell is Cuellar not playing?
2. Buy a bloody striker!
That's a seconding from me too.
1) I can only assume it's his poor distribution that GH doesn't like.
2) Quite.
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can you have a zenith of mediocrity?
Oh yes. We are, after all, on the crest of a slump.
And we are all in this alone.
Oh, I say (ripple of applause)
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Bad result - reasonable performance.
Reo Coker played really well and didnt deserve to be on the losing side.
And what the hell was Dunne doing again - gone from our most reliable centre half to our worst option - must be dropped.
And when was the last time Ashley Young beat a defender ?? He used to piss past defenders - I honestly cant remember the last time he went round one.
Its going to be a long, dull season.
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This has probably already been said lots but..
1. Why the hell is Cuellar not playing?
2. Buy a bloody striker!
That's a seconding from me too.
Cuellar is a right sided centre back which is where Collins plays. Dunne (who is the one I presume you are saying should be dropped) plays left centre back and the understudy for that position is Cieran Clark - as was shown last week.
Are you saying that Collins should be dropped or that the defence should be turned around and unbalanced so that Cuellar plays?
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Whilst I agree with everything that has been said about our lack of goal threat, I thought Emile had a very good game. The first 20 minutes he pulled their defence all over the place and thought he did well thoughout, even to the extent of losing his temper and getting booked.
If he had converted the chance that Downing set up, we would all have been saying a satisfactory performance and didn't EH do well!
One other thing that I find puzzling is the persistent playing of Downing on the right hand side. In the first half when he and Ash were the wide players they never swopped once, as far as I can recall, and in the second when Albrighton came on after a short while he went out on the left and Downing was on the right. Previously Downing and Ash have swopped frequently giving the opposition something to think about, but by persistently playing in the one position, I think negates a lot of Downing's threat. Also to me, Albrighton is out of his depth playing on the left at the moment.
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And what the hell was Dunne doing again - gone from our most reliable centre half to our worst option - must be dropped.
Most reliable? He's always been prone to fuck ups. Why do you think Man City got rid of him?!?!?!?!
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This has probably already been said lots but..
1. Why the hell is Cuellar not playing?
2. Buy a bloody striker!
That's a seconding from me too.
Cuellar is a right sided centre back which is where Collins plays. Dunne (who is the one I presume you are saying should be dropped) plays left centre back and the understudy for that position is Cieran Clark - as was shown last week.
Are you saying that Collins should be dropped or that the defence should be turned around and unbalanced so that Cuellar plays?
If it means Dunne doesn't play, the do it. Does it really matter that a right-footed player plays on the left hand side of a centre-back partnership. At this level, that should not matter.
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Here's the votes of the Chopwell jury:
Friedel - 7. Didn't really have anything to do.
Beye - 7. Ditto. Wasn't afraid to go forward and looked comfortable.
Collins - 8. Hardly a foot wrong and dominated in the air.
Dunne - 6. Seemed to me that Bruce's game plan was to target his lack of pace and most Sunderland attacks seemed to go down our left: in the first half he struggled on occasions when the ball was on the deck but in the air he won just about everything.
Warnock - 6. Drifted inside to help Dunne and Sunderland exploited the space down the flank: the ball got caught under his feet so many times in the first half that it started to look like he'd left his guide dog in the dressing room.
Downing - 8. Looked comfortable and played a couple of killer balls into the box.
Petrov - 5. Seemed to be crocked from the start.
NRC - 8. Ran around a lot to very good effect.
Young - 5. Looked pissed off and disinterested to find himself back on the wing. Perked up when he was switched into the centre but was still below par.
Ireland - 4. It's just not happening for whatever reason.
Heskey - 6. Dominated his marker in the air and had a couple of clever touches on the ground but missed a sitter.
Albrighton - 8. Should start every game: pace, always looking to beat his man and a nice shot.
Sidwell -7. Did well. Deserves a run with NRC.
Even stevens in the first half. After half time we were all over them. But we could've played until Christmas and not scored. The passing in the second half was just fantastic but we need a killer passer and a killer goal scorer. Sometimes tippy-tappy is just tippy-tappy.
Ireland: right player wrong time - I don't think he'll be here in a year.
Young: cash him in.
First time at the Stadium of Light and I like it. Nice atmosphere. Good stewarding. Excellent facilities for the disabled.
Earwigging on the way back to the Metro - Sunderland fans couldn't believe they'd won.
Cattermole is a nasty twat. Bent looked good but would look better in a Villa shirt.
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And what the hell was Dunne doing again - gone from our most reliable centre half to our worst option - must be dropped.
Most reliable? He's always been prone to fuck ups. Why do you think Man City got rid of him?!?!?!?!
I thought I had read somewhere he had been their player of the year 4 times - whatever, I don't think he's good enough for a starting position for us at the minute.
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Just got back, votes from the manc jury
Friedel - 7 - nothing much to do except one top class save just after they scored.
Beye - 7 - A few nervy moments but got stronger as the game went on.
Collins - 8 - Top defensive performance, dominant and committed
Dunne - 5 - Own goal, numerous mistakes a chance to equalise and he hit the corner flag!!
Warnock - 5 - Seemed to be back at it last week but lets be honest he got raped in the first half though he got better in the second
Downing - 8 - Another quality performance our player of the season so far.
Petrov - 6 - not on for that long but not involved enough
Reo-Coker - 8 - everywhere and apart form the odd misplaced pass a great performance, should have shot in the first half
Young - 6 - Anonymous first half and not much better until he was put in the centre when he started creating all sorts of problems
Ireland - 4 - Anonymous and really don't know whats going on with him.
Heskey - 7 - the big man caused his usual problems and would have got MOM if he'd put that chance away.
Sidwell - 7 - Do my eyes deceive me. got stuck in, used the ball intelligently and helped NRC get a grip of the midfield. Keep it up!
Albrighton - 6 - Certainly helped give us more of an edge, he's a young player so his use of the ball at times can be wasteful.
Msr. Houllier - 7 - took until the second half and the changes in personnel to really have an impact and unfortunate the changes didn't deliver the minimum point our performance deserved.
I'm glad we've missed loads of chances for the second week in a row, it means we're saving them up for next weekend!! Our play certainly creates chances and the feeling I've got is we'll give someone a stuffing soon, hopefully next weekend.
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Just back, absolutely knackered, will give the thread a read later, few points, worst 1st half performance i've witnessed since Reading, they were faster, sharper, better technically and wanted it more, better 2nd half but I never felt like we'd get an equaliser at any point, fk knows whats happened to Dunne, hes gone from our best defender to a total liability, i'd drop him for Cuellar or Clark asap cus if he fks up next week I think alot will start to get on his back, absolutely shit myself anytime Beye has the ball, im waiting for him to slip, get it tangled in his feet or pass to an opposing player, he just seems so dopey with the ball, regarding Ireland- I want him to be a success, I think he will be a success but its gonna take time, he's clearly got bundles of ability, in a way none of our other players have, problem is we havent had a player like him for many years and I don't think most our lads quite know how to utilise him, im convinced given a few months he'll be invaluable to us though, one last negative, please get Ash the fk off set pieces, its getting pathetic, im not a cup half empty person, just tired n pissed off, Heskey put himself about well
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Back from the game and read the thread. Agree with the majority of posts; essentially the substitition - Albrighton for Ireland - changed the game as it gave the chance for Ashley to link up with Heskey, as they seem to do pretty well. The 15 mins or so after this was the best, with Albrighton on the right and Downing back on the left, which is clearly his favoured role. Why, oh why, did they then switch wings, as they so often have this season, and end up trying to cross with their wrong feet! If opposition fans can see this then so should our manager. To those that think Downing had a good game I would say he had a very poor first half; either passed the ball back to a Villa player or forward to a Sunderland player, but was much better in the second.
Warnock and Dunne were rubbish in the fifteen minutes leading up to their goal; it was obvious they were going to score from a right sided attack. How Dunne is in instead of Cuellar I don't know; change it, Houllier to 'quell our' anger! Dunne certainly wasn't around at the time of the Irish Potato Famine in 1845!!
Atmosphere was rather subdued considering the numbers we had there - a much better turnout than last December when there were circa 670. However, I did think the average age was higher than usual which may have had some affect on the singing. I'm 52 but at least I join in with my two sons.
Oh, and to the Sunderland Slag who spat at the back of my younger sons jacket when she noticed his Villa shirt underneath it on the way back to the car park - FUCK OFF SLAG AND IF I EVER SEE YOU AT VILLA PARK YOU'RE IN DEEP SHIT
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Negatives, Petrov had the ball at twenty six minutes and it was the first time i noticed him, Sidwell was an improvement. Albrighton came on did well on the right and sussenly switched wings with Downing, why? Young looks much better as a free agent than stuck on the wing. Positives. Heskey led the line well, yes he missed one but they all do, NRC in the best form of his Villa career, Downing after a slowish start played well
and Albrighton has a great football brain give him time to mature and he wil very good for us.
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I'm sorry about the negativity of this post but it's how i've been feeling about the Villa now for a while.
Sunderland was a game we shouldn't have lost and i'm sure this thread is similar to the one Everton fans would've had after the game at VP earlier this season. I expect we'll be getting results like this all year with this team.
Great to see NRC doing well but it's too much for him to do, he needs support. Our Midfield now without Milner is hugely ordinary and Ireland clearly didn't/doesn't want to be here.
The balance of the side is wrong right now. Defensively we are leaking soft goals (Dunne needs to go out after today), midfield too lightweight with no driver, forward line that has no cutting edge.
To be fair to GH, I epect he'll know this too and act in the transfer window. If he doesn't we may find ourselves looking over our shoulders.
Still a win against SHA and things will seem better - a defeat and we are in for a very long season indeed.
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We returned to the good, old light blue socks! ;)
(http://www.avfc.co.uk/javaImages/5d/72/0,,10265~9138781,00.jpg)
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[
As an aside, why didn't Halsey book Downing if he saw that as a dive? I haven't seen properly enough to know either way, but Halsey HAS to book Downing for cheating or give a penalty.
No he doesn't, he can just say that the attacker went down under a fair challenge.
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Thanks for cheering me up Archie.
I needed somebody/something to do that.
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NRC was a positive!
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It comes to something that when there are 10 minutes left Houllier shoves Collins up front rather than bring on Carew...his days are numbered!
Nigel Reo-Coker stood out as our best performer.
Ash, Downing and Ireland I thought were dreadful, as soon as Ash came inside he was better (marginally).
Heskey turned back from Lionel Heskey to Emule Heskey.
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There were plenty of positives to take away from this game. Remember we are watching a team that is changing it's philosophy in mid-season. That naturally means there are going to be some bumps and growing pains. They are being asked to play a different style, and different players are getting opportunties. It will take them some time as a collective to develop the proper chemistry to play the way Houllier and his staff wants. It will also take a window or two to get in new players that already understand that system or style of play.
For me, as much as I hate to see us lose, it is interesting to see who thrives and who doesn't. We all probably thought NRC and Luke Young were gone in the summer, but both have a new lease on life. Likewise, is there a future for Carew? We haven't seen much of Gabby, so it will be intriguing to see how he is accomodated when he comes back. Clearly we need at least 3 or 4 technically solid players to come in and push us on and I trust Houllier to pull the strings to get that done. We won't see the true Houllier Villa until next season at the earliest, but that doesn't mean this season is a write off. We are in both domestic cup competitions, and I still believe that if we are 8th or 9th come January, if we can add a player or two, we'll have a strong finish and will have enough to grab one of the Europa spots for next season.
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And what the hell was Dunne doing again - gone from our most reliable centre half to our worst option - must be dropped.
Most reliable? He's always been prone to fuck ups. Why do you think Man City got rid of him?!?!?!?!
Because he doesn't sell enough shirts in Asia. That's what his former Chief Executive gave as the reasion for getting rid of him. He'd still walk into the current Man City defence. He was superb last season, this season less so.
[
As an aside, why didn't Halsey book Downing if he saw that as a dive? I haven't seen properly enough to know either way, but Halsey HAS to book Downing for cheating or give a penalty.
No he doesn't, he can just say that the attacker went down under a fair challenge.
Or lost his footing on a wet pitch - which is what it looked like to me.
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That is 2 points out of 12 for Houllier. Very worrying and SHA up next and above us in the League.
so you're already judging the man after 4 league games, 3 of which have been away from home, and the home game against the current champions?
That seems reasonable, no?
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Ash hsa to play in the number 10 role at the moment. He went from anonymous to completely cutting into them time and time again.
I don't agree we can't play Cuellar and Collins. They played very well at Wolves. And I don't see why we're playing Downing on the right so much. We looked very dangerous with MA and SD on their natural sides and then switched it.
If we can't play Ireland in central midfield, then we really need a new midfielder as we're very ordinary in there. Delph will be a welcome return.
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I thought Warnock, Dunne, Petrov & Young were rubbish.
Cuellar and Collins will hopefully start v Birmingham.
I really hope GH is looking at a Petrov replacement in January.
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I thought Warnock, Dunne, Petrov & Young were rubbish.
Cuellar and Collins will hopefully start v Birmingham.
I really hope GH is looking at a Petrov replacement in January.
will replacing Petrov solve all our problems then
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I hope this will see the end of people calling for Ashley to be moved back wide, he showed yet again that he's far more dangerous playing behind the striker and we're a far better team for it.
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I thought Warnock, Dunne, Petrov & Young were rubbish.
Cuellar and Collins will hopefully start v Birmingham.
I really hope GH is looking at a Petrov replacement in January.
will replacing Petrov solve all our problems then
No, don't be silly.
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I thought Downing had a good game he his starting to play really well this season NRC was good again shame he did'nt get that penalty given. I agree with you toronto villa that were three or four player's away from being able to push on.
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With Stan out for 3 weeks we will get to see what life without him is like, a midfield 2 of NRC and Sidwell does seem a bit ordinary but we will see.
If Ash is going to make that free role position his own he needs to be scoring a good 10 goals a season from open play, he obviously has a great understanding with Gabby and we might only see the best of him when he is back.
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I've only seen the MOTD highlights but it's obvious already that our passing and movement has come on enormously. If we can start scoring goals this may well turn out to be a very good season for us. A fit and confident Delph would fit right into this team and in my view will really shine playing next to NRC, and if we bring in a few skillful foreign (they don't have to be foreign but it will probably happen) players in January then I would expect us to finish the season very strongly for a change.
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I hope this will see the end of people calling for Ashley to be moved back wide, he showed yet again that he's far more dangerous playing behind the striker and we're a far better team for it.
I agree, but his lack of effort when asked to play there in the last two games has been disappointing.
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Blimey. I thought we played very well and were extremley unlucky to not come away with a win.
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If - Downing's shot had been a foot inside the post.
If - a penalty had been awarded when NRC went down inside the box.
then, I think we would have gone on to win the game fairly comfortably. At the start we were knocking it about, Emile was tearing their centre backs to bits and they were jittery.
However, such a small word, with such large dependancy.
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Other positives, apart from the return of the socks: 1 - yesterday we played without Albrighton, Delph and Bannan that in the next few months will constitute the heart of our midfield: 2 - we were without Gabby, that is our best forward: 3 - we had in the center of the defence Richard Dunne, that is is an awful state of form, and that hopefully in the next few months will become a good sub for the pair Clark and Cuellar.
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If you don't have any strikers, there's a good chance you're going to struggle to score goals. This has to be GH's priority for his first dip into the transfer market.
I'd offer cash and a fair bit of dead wood to Sunderland for Mr Bent.
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After the spell we had when Downing hit the post, i thought we were going to coast it and maybe had his shot gone in, we might have. Unfortunatley, the goal seemed to knock the stuffing out of us.
He made the same sub i would have made, but i'm disapointed he did'nt throw Fonz on, especially after his 2 goals in the reserves in the week. An extra striker with a bit of pace might have got us something.
Overall, very disapointing, but we've got two ideal games for us now to bounce back.
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After having a good nite sleep and time to think about it my initial negative post does seem a tad over the top, however my main gripe is still that even when we were putting them under pressure in the 2nd half I never felt like we would score, stating the obvious now but were crying out for a new striker
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Blimey. I thought we played very well and were extremley unlucky to not come away with a win.
Me too. Knocked it about nicely, undone by a totally unnecessary attempted clearance from Dunne. I think we are showing real promise so far. As I said to Woodhall towards the end of last season, one silver lining if MON left would be that we would have a squad again, and that is proving to be the case. Missing Milner of course, and Gabby, who I think would be flying this season if he was fully fit and playing alongside the rejuvenated Heskey.
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Is anyone keeping a note of all of the clear chances missed this season - loads per match e.g. Carew: a hat trick of open goals vs West Ham and a penalty vs Newcastle and a 1v1 vs Chelsea. As we have all repeated since you took over Mr Lerner, we MUST sign a goalscorer, marksman, finisher, poacher, hitman, striker, 20aseasonman....
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Is anyone keeping a note of all of the clear chances missed this season
A thankless task when you've got Heskey in your side.
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Is anyone keeping a note of all of the clear chances missed this season
A thankless task when you've got Heskey in your side.
MOTD were moaning about Heskey's fluff up, but I thought the Dunne shot wide was worse.
How did he miss the target from there?
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Match highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/sunderland-aston-villa-7301825/)
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Highlight of the day I'm sorry to say was fish&chip lunch in Osmotherly
(the idiots from Kidderminster who removed signs & chairs from the
boozer give our club a bad name- grow up or stay away)
Match wise - yes played decent football second half and could/should
have come away with at least a point but we lack a natural goal scorer,
the fans know it and hopefully the new management team will rectify it
in January
Haven't see it picked up elsewhere but I was disappointed with the
lack of anyone in our technical area, whereas Brucie was kicking every
ball and questioning every decision for 93 minutes I didn't see Gerard
till 88 and then he wandered back and sat down after 20 secs
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It was a strange game and just one of those days. On another day we could have won by 3 or 4 and we never really looked seriously threatened (apart from by Dunne >:().
I think we would have buried them if we had had a fit Gabby in our side.
It is still early days in Houlliers reign but it is nice to see him give players a chance to play. He will now be getting a good ida of his best team, areas where we lack and where our strengths are. I can't wait for January but let hope we win the next two games as they are very important to help set our season up.
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Is anyone keeping a note of all of the clear chances missed this season
A thankless task when you've got Heskey in your side.
MOTD were moaning about Heskey's fluff up, but I thought the Dunne shot wide was worse.
How did he miss the target from there?
He didn't. It went out for a corner after taking a nick from the defender.
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Highlight of the day I'm sorry to say was fish&chip lunch in Osmotherly
(the idiots from Kidderminster who removed signs & chairs from the
boozer give our club a bad name- grow up or stay away)
Match wise - yes played decent football second half and could/should
have come away with at least a point but we lack a natural goal scorer,
the fans know it and hopefully the new management team will rectify it
in January
Haven't see it picked up elsewhere but I was disappointed with the
lack of anyone in our technical area, whereas Brucie was kicking every
ball and questioning every decision for 93 minutes I didn't see Gerard
till 88 and then he wandered back and sat down after 20 secs
as chairman of the kidderminster lions i can only apologise for the behaviour of a minority of our travelling group and ensure everyone that this will not happen again, our monthly meeting is tomorrow night where this matter will be dealt with as the committee see fit, apologetically yours mark byworth