Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: citizenDJ on October 16, 2010, 10:38:00 PM

Title: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: citizenDJ on October 16, 2010, 10:38:00 PM
I know it's too early (probably) to claim that Cuellar's days are numbered, but in the light of Houllier's preference for Clark over Carlos today, I wondered what peoples thoughts are.

Should we play Cuellar, a proven central defender (and sometime right-back!) who seldom lets you down defensively, but has noticeable limitations in terms of distribution?
Or should we continue to provide the opportunity for a seemingly very talented, composed young defender to learn his trade, even if that means some mishaps or mistakes and, I think, less of an aerial dominance?

And if you'd be happy with Clark, would you be OK with Cuellar being sold?

Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on October 16, 2010, 10:53:10 PM
No reason for Cuellar to go.
Let them all compete for places.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: villa-love on October 16, 2010, 10:56:44 PM
Was under the impression he chose Clark because of the side he wanted him to play on/foot he uses
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: eamonn on October 16, 2010, 11:25:46 PM
Yeah, think Ciaran prefers playing on the left. Bit unlucky on Carlos, I hope he stays as I think he's probably our bet defender.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: DB on October 16, 2010, 11:29:41 PM
Carlos has never had a good run in his best position - centre back. MON kept shoving him out to FB, and not to great effect. I think he is our best defender too given a chance.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Archie on October 16, 2010, 11:32:22 PM
I know it's too early (probably) to claim that Cuellar's days are numbered, but in the light of Houllier's preference for Clark over Carlos today, I wondered what peoples thoughts are.

Should we play Cuellar, a proven central defender (and sometime right-back!) who seldom lets you down defensively, but has noticeable limitations in terms of distribution?

Yes, this is the point.
As far as tactics are concerned, we are passing from the prehistory (kick and run) to a more refined try  of  passing football, where even the defenders must try to start the action  instead of  restricting themselves to play long balls. In this context Clark suits better than Cuellar the manager's idea of football. But Cuellar remains more reliable than Collins, imo.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: The Situation on October 16, 2010, 11:33:06 PM
Carlos has never had a good run in his best position - centre back. MON kept shoving him out to FB, and not to great effect. I think he is our best defender too given a chance.
Spot on.

I like the fact we've got a collection of good centre-backs we can rely on. Agent Ridgwell and Alpay are a distant memory thankfully.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 16, 2010, 11:49:10 PM
Yeah, think Ciaran prefers playing on the left. Bit unlucky on Carlos, I hope he stays as I think he's probably our bet defender.

Agreed.  Carlos isn't going to win any awards for his distribution, but when it comes to raw defending, theres few better in the entire league imo.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: phantom limb on October 17, 2010, 12:12:22 AM
Cuellar is an excellent defender, and my monocle flew across the room when Clark came on. He did well though, so all I can think is that Gerard wanted a left footed defender in to balance out the team (or some bullshit).
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Hammer on October 17, 2010, 12:42:41 AM
This might be a bit 'why didn't Barry take the penalty' by now, but any idea why Clark was wearing 21 when he was wearing 47 in the early games? I thought changing squad numbers mid-season wasn't allowed.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: BILL DE VALL on October 17, 2010, 01:40:52 AM
I thought it a bit odd when Cuellar was left on the bench but i suppose G.H. wanted a natural balance
Ciaran did Ok as far as i saw so...no complaints here then
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: ROBBO on October 17, 2010, 06:43:45 AM
No brainer really, Clark moved to the left and is left footed, he passes the ball far better than Carlos. Horses for courses Carlos will get his turn.The new manager has his own style and we will see quite a few changes in the next few months.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: charlie659 on October 17, 2010, 07:30:53 AM
I like this square pegs in square holes shit!
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Matt Collins on October 17, 2010, 07:32:08 AM
I don't see how the decision could be described as a no brainer! Collins and Cuellar played very well together at Wolves. I thought it was a big risk, but well played Cieran - although Anelka didn't stretch him as much as he could
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: eastie on October 17, 2010, 07:49:59 AM
I'M sure GED will want to have a good look at everyone in his squad and assess them so he can say see what he needs to bring in and who is surplus and that's fine by me.
 
I was worried too seeing Clark coming on ,he was fine and I expect cuellar to get plenty games as well, houllier loved to rotate and freshen things at anfield and it's a pleasant change from the same  every week- the lads will all get to play their part and when we hit march should still be pretty fit, rather than knackered.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on October 17, 2010, 08:49:27 AM
No reason for Cuellar to go.
Let them all compete for places.
Quite.
We've been moaning about lack of squad rotation for ages.
They'll both play a big part this season.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 17, 2010, 09:01:16 AM
Thank G-Hou, he doesnt just shove cuellar to RB to keep him happy like MON would have done..  we will need cueller but to be played in his right position..
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: darren woolley on October 17, 2010, 09:22:56 AM
It is a nice conundrum to have which one to bring on useing the squad i like it.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on October 17, 2010, 10:07:09 AM
We needed a left sided defender and he put one on, Simple.

Cuellar will be playing there are 30 games to go and we will need him. The days of every player playing every game are gone and GH has already said that. I was shocked yesterday when he did come on but he did well.

Clean sheet kept so jobs a good un
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Shrek on October 17, 2010, 10:07:09 AM
I like this square pegs in square holes shit!


So do I, its great not walking up to the match knowing  already, what the team is and what subs will be used.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Clampy on October 17, 2010, 10:29:25 AM
If Drogba had been on the pitch, he probably would have gone with Carlos, but it was a brave move and Clarky did well.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on October 17, 2010, 10:36:24 AM
Clark looks like he could be as good as Cahill.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: London Villan on October 17, 2010, 10:42:51 AM
I think Clampy has it spot on. With Chelsea only playing Anelka upfront there was less of a physical battle for the centre-halves. It wasn't a straight forward decision though, as Houllier had them both warming up ready to come on.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 17, 2010, 10:53:47 AM
We'll need them both, I am very impressed with Clark though.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: villasjf on October 17, 2010, 11:24:59 AM
He seems more composed on the ball, i noticed a few times he passed the ball to Rio, who treated it like a hot potato and gave it straight back to him. he still hasn't played for Ireland yet at senior level and there are not that many young English center halves about. I was supprised when he came on as Carlos and he were told to get ready when Dunne got injured, it seemed ages before the change was made though. Brave decission by GH.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Irish villain on October 17, 2010, 11:30:36 AM
I also think Carlos is our best centre back but was glad to see Clark get his chance as the left sided centre back. As others have said it is good to see competition for places and the squad being utilised properly by the manager.

Gives us a bit of a selection headache now.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: jembob on October 17, 2010, 11:37:02 AM
Chelsea didn't have too much of an aerial threat yesterday so perhaps Clark was a better choice. If Drogba had have been playing then Carlos should have been first choice but perhaps they felt that Clark was quicker than Carlos and offered better ball retention and pass completion. If that's the case then it was sensible use of squad players.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: robbo1874 on October 17, 2010, 11:59:14 AM
No great aerial threat, but Anelka still managed to get between two defenders for his header towards the end, which we were very lucky not to have conceded from (and likely lost given the time left). Not sure which defenders they were, but presumably Clark would have been one of them.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: pablopicasso_10 on October 17, 2010, 12:54:44 PM
i dont, and have never rated cuellar...

he is scared of the football, and with the new "passing / possession" game we are looking to move towards (and showing good initital signs), i dont think he has a future with us... and for that, we will improve...

clark on the other hand, is very comfortable on the ball and offers us balance, so i would rather we continued with clark this season more so, accept the learning mistakes, and help progress him for the future...
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Karl Bridges on October 17, 2010, 01:12:00 PM
I think the ball would have been coming back a lot quicker if Carlos had come on. I thinki he is a great defender but he does have a tendency to hoof it a bit. Clark was composedc on the ball and looked to take the pressure off by finding a team mate in space.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: mattjpa on October 17, 2010, 03:19:10 PM
im pleased that clark got a chance. the less obvious choice can be the better one sometimes and decisions like that will prob prevent the usual january collapse--we need more fringe players being used and nearer the first team so that when called upon they dont look like rabbits in the headlights.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: supertom on October 17, 2010, 03:45:08 PM
Cueller was immense against Wolves. Getting dropped for Dunne was very strange IMO, and Dunne subsequently had a stinker. It's all I've disagreed with GED so far in the hotseat, is his treatment of Cueller.

I kind of understand the left foot issue with Clark coming on, but really, Cueller's experience might have been more useful. Thankfully Clarky had a good game though.

In my opinion Carlos is the best defender we've got. His anticipation is brilliant and he covers gaps and reads the game superbly.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 17, 2010, 08:09:46 PM
Ciaran Clark is a fine prospect (I rate him higher than Cahill and I was sorry to see Gary go).

Carlos Cuellar is a very good centre half.

As is James Collins.

And as was Dunney before he got lazy and injured.

It's fair to say centre half is the strongest area of our club by a mile and needs the least amount of work.

Infact as long as Curtis Davies isn't one of our two centre halfs, I'm cool with whoever's playing.

One problem I'd imagine is I presume Carlos signed a 4 year deal in 2008. So he will only have 1 year left this summer so we might have to let him go as I'd imagine he wouldn't be keen to sign a new deal if he dosen't play much this season.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Mazrim on October 17, 2010, 08:51:53 PM
Clark looks like he could be as good as Cahill.

Decidedly better and I said it years ago.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: eamonn on October 17, 2010, 08:53:38 PM
Has Ciarán declared for Ireland then?
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 17, 2010, 08:57:09 PM
Yep. Either him or Paul McShane as back up CB in the next squad....
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Bald Eagle on October 17, 2010, 09:00:21 PM
Cueller was immense against Wolves. Getting dropped for Dunne was very strange IMO, and Dunne subsequently had a stinker. It's all I've disagreed with GED so far in the hotseat, is his treatment of Cueller.

I kind of understand the left foot issue with Clark coming on, but really, Cueller's experience might have been more useful. Thankfully Clarky had a good game though.

In my opinion Carlos is the best defender we've got. His anticipation is brilliant and he covers gaps and reads the game superbly.
This.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 17, 2010, 09:14:11 PM
Cueller was immense against Wolves. Getting dropped for Dunne was very strange IMO, and Dunne subsequently had a stinker. It's all I've disagreed with GED so far in the hotseat, is his treatment of Cueller.

I kind of understand the left foot issue with Clark coming on, but really, Cueller's experience might have been more useful. Thankfully Clarky had a good game though.

In my opinion Carlos is the best defender we've got. His anticipation is brilliant and he covers gaps and reads the game superbly.
This.

Well, if your plan is to keep possession of the ball for longer periods than we are accustomed to then it's a better idea that you have players who are more comfortable with the ball.  Clarke is better on the ball than Cuellar, as are all the centre halves we have.  Cuellar will get his chance again when the bruising sides show up where his attributes and experience are better than Clarke's are at the moment.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Bald Eagle on October 17, 2010, 09:27:53 PM
Cueller was immense against Wolves. Getting dropped for Dunne was very strange IMO, and Dunne subsequently had a stinker. It's all I've disagreed with GED so far in the hotseat, is his treatment of Cueller.

I kind of understand the left foot issue with Clark coming on, but really, Cueller's experience might have been more useful. Thankfully Clarky had a good game though.

In my opinion Carlos is the best defender we've got. His anticipation is brilliant and he covers gaps and reads the game superbly.
This.

Well, if your plan is to keep possession of the ball for longer periods than we are accustomed to then it's a better idea that you have players who are more comfortable with the ball.  Clarke is better on the ball than Cuellar, as are all the centre halves we have.  Cuellar will get his chance again when the bruising sides show up where his attributes and experience are better than Clarke's are at the moment.
The main priority of a centre back is to defend. They also hunt in pairs, as strikers used to do. Carlos and collins were spot on at Wolves.Clark and Dunne were desperate at Newcastle. Dunne and Collins were far from great at Spurs. Distribution is a plus but the priority must be to defend.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 17, 2010, 09:42:22 PM
Cueller was immense against Wolves. Getting dropped for Dunne was very strange IMO, and Dunne subsequently had a stinker. It's all I've disagreed with GED so far in the hotseat, is his treatment of Cueller.

I kind of understand the left foot issue with Clark coming on, but really, Cueller's experience might have been more useful. Thankfully Clarky had a good game though.

In my opinion Carlos is the best defender we've got. His anticipation is brilliant and he covers gaps and reads the game superbly.
This.

Well, if your plan is to keep possession of the ball for longer periods than we are accustomed to then it's a better idea that you have players who are more comfortable with the ball.  Clarke is better on the ball than Cuellar, as are all the centre halves we have.  Cuellar will get his chance again when the bruising sides show up where his attributes and experience are better than Clarke's are at the moment.
The main priority of a centre back is to defend. They also hunt in pairs, as strikers used to do. Carlos and collins were spot on at Wolves.Clark and Dunne were desperate at Newcastle. Dunne and Collins were far from great at Spurs. Distribution is a plus but the priority must be to defend.

I agree with you.  But with them only playing one up front that threat is mainly covered by Collins. 

We did keep possession of the ball much better than usual yesterday for most of the game.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: eastie on October 17, 2010, 10:12:27 PM
I thought dunne looked poor early in the season but played pretty well at spurs , it was a world class display from van der vaart that beat us .

I think all 4 central defenders will get plenty of games under houllier , and I'm happy with that rather than flogging his players into the ground.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: brontebilly on October 18, 2010, 02:24:58 AM
Centre half isnt really a position where we should be rotating though. That is my view. Hard to know what Cuellar has done wrong since Wolves but we have probably the best choice of any club in the EPL at centre back. I dont think Collins is back to last season's form either. I thought he was turned pretty easily by Anelka for one chance at the end. I thought Dunne and himself were a superb partnership last season. Two bruisers, both pretty quick too and decent enough on the ball. If we had a centre midfielder who wanted the ball it would make the defenders look better.

Clark did pretty well yesterday. Made a few mistakes but nothing massive. I think he needs to bulk up a bit and become more dominant in the air if he is going to make it as a top centre half. I have a suspicion like Gareth Barry that his best position will be in midfield. He is so composed on the ball but two footed unlike Barry. With teams who play with only one striker he is certainly an option as he can bring the ball out of defence but Id see him as back up this season really. Was only thinking yesterday if even still had Milner and Barry we would have a fine team, oh well

So call it, who would your partnership be for Sunderland - Dunne and Cuellar at the moment for me. Cuellar and Clark for Burnley I guess.

Was surprised Beye got the nod ahead of Lichaj yesterday. To be fair Beye did better than expected but tired naturally in the second half. Beye was a fine defender at Newcastle remember him not giving Ashley Young a kick a few seasons back at SJP

My team for Burnley
Friedel
Beye, Cuellar, Clark, Warnock
Albrighton, Reo Coker, Sidwell, Bannan------
----------Young--------------
-------------Delfouneso--------------------
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: eastie on October 18, 2010, 08:12:39 AM
Houllier needs to have a good look at all the players at his disposal so he can decide who he needs to add to the squad and who he feels he can let go, he was full of praise for cuellar after the wolves game and I don't see anything to worry about .
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 18, 2010, 09:00:14 AM
Cuellar was superb against Wolves.

Houllier has said he'll rotate the squad, maybe he'll start Cuellar v Burnley or Sunderland knowing that Dunne took a knock or Collins has started the last few games.

Clark & Cuellar for Burnley and Collins & Cuellar v Sunderland.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Mazrim on October 18, 2010, 09:16:28 AM
Ive said for a couple of years now that Clark would end up being the best centre half at the club. I think the current coaching staff might believe that too and its probably because Sid is part of the set up maybe.

However, I was very suprised when he took the field ahead of Cuellar but also pleasantly suprised because it was unexpected. I love seeing ballsy moves like that where youngsters are concerned. Its great to see.
The best thing about the current situation is we'll get to see and in some cases have seen a lot of the likes of Albrighton, Fonz, Clark and Bannan etc.

I think Cuellar can think himself unlucky not to have started against Spurs though and I have no doubts he'll play his part over the coming months.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on October 18, 2010, 09:40:52 AM
Ive said for a couple of years now that Clark would end up being the best centre half at the club. I think the current coaching staff might believe that too and its probably because Sid is part of the set up maybe.

However, I was very suprised when he took the field ahead of Cuellar but also pleasantly suprised because it was unexpected. I love seeing ballsy moves like that where youngsters are concerned. Its great to see.
The best thing about the current situation is we'll get to see and in some cases have seen a lot of the likes of Albrighton, Fonz, Clark and Bannan etc.

I think Cuellar can think himself unlucky not to have started against Spurs though and I have no doubts he'll play his part over the coming months.
I guess Malcolm picked the wrong day to give up sniffing glue.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Olneythelonely on October 18, 2010, 09:48:14 AM
Clark looks like he could be as good as Cahill.

Hopefully he'll be better and be good enough to start regularly for us.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Summers on October 18, 2010, 11:32:01 AM
I see a lot of people think Cuellar to be our best defender, and I agreed - until I saw just good Collins is. He'd be my first choice centre back if I was manager - probably with Cuellar. Collins is a brute, barely beaten in the air, covers every gap and throws himself at everything. He's becoming one of my favourite players.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Concrete John on October 18, 2010, 11:34:56 AM
I see a lot of people think Cuellar to be our best defender, and I agreed - until I saw just good Collins is. He'd be my first choice centre back if I was manager - probably with Cuellar. Collins is a brute, barely beaten in the air, covers every gap and throws himself at everything. He's becoming one of my favourite players.

Couldn't agree more!
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Mazrim on October 18, 2010, 11:42:38 AM
Collins gives everything and is a lionheart and thus very likeable. In many ways, very similar to Laursen.
He lacks a bit of class and occasionally gets caught out but there aren't that many better in the league.
He's been a revelation since we signed him. I expected very little in truth.
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: supertom on October 18, 2010, 11:55:08 AM
Collins gives everything and is a lionheart and thus very likeable. In many ways, very similar to Laursen.
He lacks a bit of class and occasionally gets caught out but there aren't that many better in the league.
He's been a revelation since we signed him. I expected very little in truth.
This
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Clampy on October 18, 2010, 08:06:33 PM
I think Carlos is potentially our best centre half and he's been unlucky that he's not really had a fair run in his proper position. We need to keep good players like him if we're going to get anywhere. Before we start going overboard with Clark, yes he looks a good prospect, but most of us said the same about Ridgwell.

 
Title: Re: Clark Vs Cuellar
Post by: Mazrim on October 18, 2010, 08:58:48 PM
Actually, I always rated Cahill higher than Ridgewell and I rate Clark easily better than both.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal