Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: mr-villa on October 07, 2010, 05:51:55 PM
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Just been on the AVFC website ticketing section only to find they are advertising half-season tickets. The price for my particular section (Lower Trinity) is £285 for an adult. This covers 12 matches if purchased before November 10th, working out at £23.75 per match. My full season ticket cost me £495 when purchased in July, working out at £26.05 per match. This does not seem a fair deal to me, what incentive does this present to full season ticket holders to a) Renew for a full season next year and b) Go to additional cup games when these are not being offered to season ticket holders any more cheaply than ordinary punters?
What's the view on this from any other season ticket holders?
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I'd imagine it's to do with the fact that the 12 fixtures which the deal covers don't include Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or the Blues which you'd imagine are the 4 biggest gates the club gets and therefore the most "prestigious" games in the eyes of the fans.
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bloody hell. The club can't win can they.
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bloody hell. The club can't win can they.
You have to laugh, don't you!
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bloody hell. The club can't win can they.
I think they're right to be doing what they can to shift more tickets, you can't really complain about that.
I do think it's too easy to brush it off as "they can't win", though.
It's a very fine line to walk, promoting ticket sales, selling half season tickets, match by match special offers, "packets" of games etc etc, because you have season ticket holders who have forked out the money well, well in advance (I think I renewed mine before the end of last season, it was definitely May), who are starting to wonder if it makes sense for them to renew.
You might think that they're being over criticial (and, to be honest, i don't really care too much about it in my own case, as i wanted to secure my seat), but it's way too easy to just say "they can't win".
For a start, the very fact that mr-villa has posted his example here and raised an eyebrow suggests that there is at least an issue to discuss
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I'd imagine it's to do with the fact that the 12 fixtures which the deal covers don't include Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or the Blues which you'd imagine are the 4 biggest gates the club gets and therefore the most "prestigious" games in the eyes of the fans.
It's more than a "half" season ticket if it covers 12 matches, too.
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It gives the fans something to moan about. We all love a good moan.
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bloody hell. The club can't win can they.
I think they're right to be doing what they can to shift more tickets, you can't really complain about that.
I do think it's too easy to brush it off as "they can't win", though.
It's a very fine line to walk, promoting ticket sales, selling half season tickets, match by match special offers, "packets" of games etc etc, because you have season ticket holders who have forked out the money well, well in advance (I think I renewed mine before the end of last season, it was definitely May), who are starting to wonder if it makes sense for them to renew.
You might think that they're being over criticial (and, to be honest, i don't really care too much about it in my own case, as i wanted to secure my seat), but it's way too easy to just say "they can't win".
For a start, the very fact that mr-villa has posted his example here and raised an eyebrow suggests that there is at least an issue to discuss
Thanks Paulie, I too think they should be doing all they can to shift more tickets, I don't mind this but the club do need to be careful that in doing so they do not antagonise existing season card holders.
As somebody who is struggling to get back into the world of work following a redundancy these kinds of promotion only serve to make you think harder about the sense of renewing next year. I just wish the club would offer some incentive to existing ST holders at the same time as they are promoting these offers to non season ticket holders. Why for instance can't they offer existing ST holders the Burnley game for a fiver is that too much to expect?
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I haven't got Adobe so can't read PDF files so can someone nicely put the prices up for each stand please?
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(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee193/frabbo/Temp/HalfSeasonTickets.jpg)
Click to enlarge.
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Cheers mate.
Will be getting the 225 deal in the Upper north so together with the 100 quid deal for the next five home games and 23 quid for Bolton, that means I've paid £348 for 17 home games so just over 20 quid a game.
Would like to see some home wins though as predictably missed Everton and West Ham!
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i agree with mr villa, we loyal idiots who renew each year, year in, year out are being shafted in search of new blood to be quite crude!
As for the club not being able to win, well i take it from that toronto that you didnt buy a season ticket for more dosh than everyone else! And i dont buy into this category AA games and b etc malarchy. I watch every game no matter who we play! and i dont give a shaft about whether it is manure or blackpool!
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i agree with mr villa, we loyal idiots who renew each year, year in, year out are being shafted in search of new blood to be quite crude!
As for the club not being able to win, well i take it from that toronto that you didnt buy a season ticket for more dosh than everyone else! And i dont buy into this category AA games and b etc malarchy. I watch every game no matter who we play! and i dont give a shaft about whether it is manure or blackpool!
so what exactly would you have the club do given attendances aren't where they hoped? How about they don't do season tickets at all then just in case they get a negative response half way through the season? It happens in every walk of life in offering promotions on anything you can think of. You can buy a car today, and then 6 months later that same car, is less because they need to move them out or just drive sales. Do people go back and hand their car back? You're right, if there are no benefits to the full season ticket, then why did you renew at all? I bought season tickets every year while I lived there, and I have no idea what that has to do with your argument. In fact, my first season ticket has a half season book back in 1983, so I was one of those who benefitted from something like this.
I just don't get why everything the club does, for some has a negative spin. they are doing what every business does to generate revenue and therefore run the club profitably. They don't screw us. They try and offer great facilities and a good product while trying to compete at a very high level, in a very expensive sport. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm pretty sure they thought this through and want to get more of us into seats to support the team. I'm shocked anyone sees a negative to that.
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Don't see the club have any other choice, but I think they made a mistake putting up the prices this season.
Having said that, pop over to the Spurs website and check out their matchday prices.
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i agree with mr villa, we loyal idiots who renew each year, year in, year out are being shafted in search of new blood to be quite crude!
As for the club not being able to win, well i take it from that toronto that you didnt buy a season ticket for more dosh than everyone else! And i dont buy into this category AA games and b etc malarchy. I watch every game no matter who we play! and i dont give a shaft about whether it is manure or blackpool!
so what exactly would you have the club do given attendances aren't where they hoped? How about they don't do season tickets at all then just in case they get a negative response half way through the season? It happens in every walk of life in offering promotions on anything you can think of. You can buy a car today, and then 6 months later that same car, is less because they need to move them out or just drive sales. Do people go back and hand their car back? You're right, if there are no benefits to the full season ticket, then why did you renew at all? I bought season tickets every year while I lived there, and I have no idea what that has to do with your argument. In fact, my first season ticket has a half season book back in 1983, so I was one of those who benefitted from something like this.
I just don't get why everything the club does, for some has a negative spin. they are doing what every business does to generate revenue and therefore run the club profitably. They don't screw us. They try and offer great facilities and a good product while trying to compete at a very high level, in a very expensive sport. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm pretty sure they thought this through and want to get more of us into seats to support the team. I'm shocked anyone sees a negative to that.
you are right, why the hell would i have put my loyalty with a company year in year out and then realise that i should not and just put it in when it suits ME! I am the consumer here, i know that i am paying for a product that you view as very reasonable, however you have not pointed out to me the benefits of my ticket being paid in full for the whole of the season instead of me not pladging my allegiance to the club and joining in half way through the season.
Coupled with the fact that they abolished the under 12 season ticket and replaced it with the under 16 and the under 12 ticket has now gone to under 8! my 2 tickets have increased by a further £120 this season! Under enquiry to get my 6 year old a season ticket in L3 was informed that this deal for under 8's is only available to children sitting in L2 which is 10 seats away! So my 6 year old would have to pay under 16 prices! Do the club realise the loyal few have the same bills to pay as evryone else, but no, we are twats cause we are blaming the club for selling a few more seats! And i havent said anything about watching all the games on tv like you do because it is my choice and i have that option open as well as every pub has evry game! I just choose to go to the game!
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Don't see the club have any other choice, but I think they made a mistake putting up the prices this season.
Having said that, pop over to the Spurs website and check out their matchday prices.
what, the club with champions league games?
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Don't see the club have any other choice, but I think they made a mistake putting up the prices this season.
Having said that, pop over to the Spurs website and check out their matchday prices.
what, the club with champions league games?
Those prices don't just apply to European Cup games though do they?
I've had a season ticket for years. There's loads of benefits for them, as was discussed at length on the thread started by someone whinging about the 5 games deal a couple of weeks ago.
If you think you'd be better off not getting a season ticket don't get one. The fact you have bought one implies you either don't know what you're doing or you think that's the best option for you. The club have hardly pulled the rug from under anyone here as they've done game ticket deals and half season tickets for years.
As has been said, we're the consumer here and no-one is forcing us to hand over our hard-earned. As with everything in life, different deals suit different people and all the club are doing is trying to cater for everyone in the best way they can.
As far as I'm concerned, if it gets more bums on seats then fair play to them, even if the fella sat next to me paid slightly less per match for the Blackpool game!!!
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Don't see the club have any other choice, but I think they made a mistake putting up the prices this season.
Having said that, pop over to the Spurs website and check out their matchday prices.
what, the club with champions league games?
Those prices don't just apply to European Cup games though do they?
I've had a season ticket for years. There's loads of benefits for them, as was discussed at length on the thread started by someone whinging about the 5 games deal a couple of weeks ago.
If you think you'd be better off not getting a season ticket don't get one. The fact you have bought one implies you either don't know what you're doing or you think that's the best option for you. The club have hardly pulled the rug from under anyone here as they've done game ticket deals and half season tickets for years.
As has been said, we're the consumer here and no-one is forcing us to hand over our hard-earned. As with everything in life, different deals suit different people and all the club are doing is trying to cater for everyone in the best way they can.
As far as I'm concerned, if it gets more bums on seats then fair play to them, even if the fella sat next to me paid slightly less per match for the Blackpool game!!!
if you are happy with that then fair play, but next year it should be advertised as 'Buy a season ticket now! It will cost you more than if you buy it part way through the season, but hey ho, we will act on market forces!'
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so in your world, you would never put anything on sale. The price is the price and that's it. Too bad if you missed out - right? I hope that as an extension of that you refuse to buy things that are on sale, because by doing so you've just screwed the last guy who might have paid more than you did. Oh, that's right .. doesn't work that way does it?
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so in your world, you would never put anything on sale. The price is the price and that's it. Too bad if you missed out - right? I hope that as an extension of that you refuse to buy things that are on sale, because by doing so you've just screwed the last guy who might have paid more than you did. Oh, that's right .. doesn't work that way does it?
I cant understand why you're so reluctant to see the point here. It really is not rocket science.
Season tickets are sold primarily on the basis that, yes, you give the club all the money up front, months before the season, but that in return, it costs you less to attend every match over the course of the season.
If you then make a series of ticket offers during the course of the season which mean that, actually, it's either not cheaper at all, or the saving is minimal, then you put yourself in a tricky position with the people who have parted with the cash in advance.
I'm aware that a season ticket has other benefits, the prime of which is priority access to cup final tickets, but how many times in the last quarter of a century has that actually meant anything? Four times?
You can not compare it with a standard, off the shelf product which is put on sale in January, because you are asking people to pay for it in advance, and frequently that involves paying for matches you know you won't be able to attend (especially given the way Sky move fixtures around).
I understand why the club are introducing offers to shift tickets, I really do, and I do not regret giving them my 550 quid several months ago. But the fact is, these are hard times for people, which partly explains why we're struggling to shift matchday tickets, but they're also hard times for season ticket holders, and a lot of them, having struggled to find the money this season will think long and hard about whether they're going to bother next season if, on the basis of this year, they can save more money by not stumping up. They will look at what has happened this season and base their spending decision on that.
It is an extremely difficult thing for the club to do, I think, price match day tickets and offers in such a way as to attract floating supporters to matches whilst not alienating the (vitally important) season ticket holders.
I think the General has even made precisely this point on his thread in the past, but your attitude seems to be "oh well, get over it, what do you expect?" which is the last attitude a club which rarely sells its ground out can afford to take in a recession.
One final point - and one which possibly illustrates what a delicate situation this is - we're promoting half season tickets, which actually cover more than half the season - three home games into the season. For people who bought their full season ticket shortly before the start of the season, that doesn't look too clever.
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so in your world, you would never put anything on sale. The price is the price and that's it. Too bad if you missed out - right? I hope that as an extension of that you refuse to buy things that are on sale, because by doing so you've just screwed the last guy who might have paid more than you did. Oh, that's right .. doesn't work that way does it?
I cant understand why you're so reluctant to see the point here. It really is not rocket science.
Season tickets are sold primarily on the basis that, yes, you give the club all the money up front, months before the season, but that in return, it costs you less to attend every match over the course of the season.
If you then make a series of ticket offers during the course of the season which mean that, actually, it's either not cheaper at all, or the saving is minimal, then you put yourself in a tricky position with the people who have parted with the cash in advance.
I'm aware that a season ticket has other benefits, the prime of which is priority access to cup final tickets, but how many times in the last quarter of a century has that actually meant anything? Four times?
You can not compare it with a standard, off the shelf product which is put on sale in January, because you are asking people to pay for it in advance, and frequently that involves paying for matches you know you won't be able to attend (especially given the way Sky move fixtures around).
I understand why the club are introducing offers to shift tickets, I really do, and I do not regret giving them my 550 quid several months ago. But the fact is, these are hard times for people, which partly explains why we're struggling to shift matchday tickets, but they're also hard times for season ticket holders, and a lot of them, having struggled to find the money this season will think long and hard about whether they're going to bother next season if, on the basis of this year, they can save more money by not stumping up. They will look at what has happened this season and base their spending decision on that.
It is an extremely difficult thing for the club to do, I think, price match day tickets and offers in such a way as to attract floating supporters to matches whilst not alienating the (vitally important) season ticket holders.
I think the General has even made precisely this point on his thread in the past, but your attitude seems to be "oh well, get over it, what do you expect?" which is the last attitude a club which rarely sells its ground out can afford to take in a recession.
One final point - and one which possibly illustrates what a delicate situation this is - we're promoting half season tickets, which actually cover more than half the season - three home games into the season. For people who bought their full season ticket shortly before the start of the season, that doesn't look too clever.
I agree completely, I applaud the club for doing what they can to fill out the ground and obviously the fact you have got a season ticket it will guarentee Wembley tickets if we get there.
Thing is, if the 4 of us (that did forked out for season tickets at the start of the season) had bought match by match tickets so far this season and used all the offers for the rest of the season, we would have saved enough money to between us to pay for Wembley tickets (if we get there) and still get tickets due to our poor season ticket sales.
I won't bother renewing next year.
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Thing is, if the 4 of us (that did forked out for season tickets at the start of the season) had bought match by match tickets so far this season and used all the offers for the rest of the season, we would have saved enough money to between us to pay for Wembley tickets (if we get there) and still get tickets due to our poor season ticket sales.
I won't bother renewing next year.
And regardless of the thought process you've used to arrive at that decision, whether or not they should reduce the prices etc etc etc , the point is not actually that.
The point is that you've decided that, and that lots of other people might do the same.
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so in your world, you would never put anything on sale. The price is the price and that's it. Too bad if you missed out - right? I hope that as an extension of that you refuse to buy things that are on sale, because by doing so you've just screwed the last guy who might have paid more than you did. Oh, that's right .. doesn't work that way does it?
I cant understand why you're so reluctant to see the point here. It really is not rocket science.
Season tickets are sold primarily on the basis that, yes, you give the club all the money up front, months before the season, but that in return, it costs you less to attend every match over the course of the season.
If you then make a series of ticket offers during the course of the season which mean that, actually, it's either not cheaper at all, or the saving is minimal, then you put yourself in a tricky position with the people who have parted with the cash in advance.
I'm aware that a season ticket has other benefits, the prime of which is priority access to cup final tickets, but how many times in the last quarter of a century has that actually meant anything? Four times?
You can not compare it with a standard, off the shelf product which is put on sale in January, because you are asking people to pay for it in advance, and frequently that involves paying for matches you know you won't be able to attend (especially given the way Sky move fixtures around).
I understand why the club are introducing offers to shift tickets, I really do, and I do not regret giving them my 550 quid several months ago. But the fact is, these are hard times for people, which partly explains why we're struggling to shift matchday tickets, but they're also hard times for season ticket holders, and a lot of them, having struggled to find the money this season will think long and hard about whether they're going to bother next season if, on the basis of this year, they can save more money by not stumping up. They will look at what has happened this season and base their spending decision on that.
It is an extremely difficult thing for the club to do, I think, price match day tickets and offers in such a way as to attract floating supporters to matches whilst not alienating the (vitally important) season ticket holders.
I think the General has even made precisely this point on his thread in the past, but your attitude seems to be "oh well, get over it, what do you expect?" which is the last attitude a club which rarely sells its ground out can afford to take in a recession.
One final point - and one which possibly illustrates what a delicate situation this is - we're promoting half season tickets, which actually cover more than half the season - three home games into the season. For people who bought their full season ticket shortly before the start of the season, that doesn't look too clever.
my point and my frustration very simply paulie is that we are getting to the point of wanting to break everything down and microanalyzing everything to the point where everything is criticised. That good intent isn't taken at face value. If that's the way things are then we'll always be in a situation of complaining that things are never good enough, never enough, not fair etc etc. It gets tiring and old that whenever the club does anything now, a couple of posts in, if not from the start, there's someone finding fault with something.
You can't make everyone happy and I don't think the club works in a vacuum devoid of the realities of the economy. They have to be creative to get people to come and watch a pastime that we all agree is already out of hand for many people. How do you reign that back in without sacrificing the product? While we all want Villa to do well and pay as little as we can to achieve that goal, the formula simply doesn't work.
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my point and my frustration very simply paulie is that we are getting to the point of wanting to break everything down and microanalyzing everything to the point where everything is criticised. That good intent isn't taken at face value. If that's the way things are then we'll always be in a situation of complaining that things are never good enough, never enough, not fair etc etc. It gets tiring and old that whenever the club does anything now, a couple of posts in, if not from the start, there's someone finding fault with something.
I think that's incredibly cynical - people are just moaning because thats what they're like, they moan about everything. Ticket pricing is a pretty fundamental part of the club, it's not like people are microanalysing every little detail here.
Doesn't it strike you as pretty obvious that if you discount tickets on a match by match basis, you're going to annoy season ticket holders? It is pretty basic economics. Devalue something (the season ticket) enough by extensive competing offers, and you run the risk of struggling to sell them in the future.
You can't make everyone happy and I don't think the club works in a vacuum devoid of the realities of the economy. They have to be creative to get people to come and watch a pastime that we all agree is already out of hand for many people. How do you reign that back in without sacrificing the product? While we all want Villa to do well and pay as little as we can to achieve that goal, the formula simply doesn't work.
It isn't about "how do we make it less expensive" full stop.
It's about how you pitch match day tickets to attract as many floating fans as you can without alienating your season ticket holders.
Do you think these half season ticket and other offers will make season ticket holders think twice about renewing? You're quite right in your first sentence above, you can't make everyone happy, and the opening poster is one of the people who clearly isn't happy.
The problem is that push too far in this direction, and you're going to make a lot more people unhappy, and come May when the club needs the season ticket money to come in, it won't be there.
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my point and my frustration very simply paulie is that we are getting to the point of wanting to break everything down and microanalyzing everything to the point where everything is criticised. That good intent isn't taken at face value. If that's the way things are then we'll always be in a situation of complaining that things are never good enough, never enough, not fair etc etc. It gets tiring and old that whenever the club does anything now, a couple of posts in, if not from the start, there's someone finding fault with something.
I think that's incredibly cynical - people are just moaning because thats what they're like, they moan about everything. Ticket pricing is a pretty fundamental part of the club, it's not like people are microanalysing every little detail here.
Doesn't it strike you as pretty obvious that if you discount tickets on a match by match basis, you're going to annoy season ticket holders? It is pretty basic economics. Devalue something (the season ticket) enough by extensive competing offers, and you run the risk of struggling to sell them in the future.
You can't make everyone happy and I don't think the club works in a vacuum devoid of the realities of the economy. They have to be creative to get people to come and watch a pastime that we all agree is already out of hand for many people. How do you reign that back in without sacrificing the product? While we all want Villa to do well and pay as little as we can to achieve that goal, the formula simply doesn't work.
It isn't about "how do we make it less expensive" full stop.
It's about how you pitch match day tickets to attract as many floating fans as you can without alienating your season ticket holders.
Do you think these half season ticket and other offers will make season ticket holders think twice about renewing? You're quite right in your first sentence above, you can't make everyone happy, and the opening poster is one of the people who clearly isn't happy.
The problem is that push too far in this direction, and you're going to make a lot more people unhappy, and come May when the club needs the season ticket money to come in, it won't be there.
and i feel the people who buy the season ticket are the ones who do not over critisize the club as we have actually put the hardest thing up as support for the club! - money!!
I know that the new i phone or i pad will not be cheaper in january if it is a roaring success. I know also that football economics completely betray the economics of normal life, exactly why liverpool fans have continued to support their club even though they can see their club shafting them in the first place. although the yanks were on paper owning the club they adore and knowing that if their continued support of the odius pair were not there, their club will suffer more!
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How exactly do you make it less expensive and remain competitive paulie? Especially when the game itself has no intention of participating. Wages aren't coming down and neither are transfers. I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's a genuine question.
The board have done what they can to make it "less expensive". You make it sound as though the recession is only in Birmingham and nowhere else. Somehow, with higher prices they fill out other stadiums of our main competitors. Maybe there is s fundamental problem in the area, that in England's second city we can't get close to filling either stadium on a Saturday. I'm not being cynical. I'm pointing what happens when the board tries something new or different. How about somebody come up with something better that makes everyone happy. It's not easy at all. I'd be very interested to to hear what they should have done instead.
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How exactly do you make it less expensive and remain competitive paulie? Especially when the game itself has no intention of participating. Wages aren't coming down and neither are transfers. I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's a genuine question.
The board have done what they can to make it "less expensive". You make it sound as though the recession is only in Birmingham and nowhere else. Somehow, with higher prices they fill out other stadiums of our main competitors. Maybe there is s fundamental problem in the area, that in England's second city we can't get close to filling either stadium on a Saturday. I'm not being cynical. I'm pointing what happens when the board tries something new or different. How about somebody come up with something better that makes everyone happy. It's not easy at all. I'd be very interested to to hear what they should have done instead.
i think the point that people are making here toronto is that whilst it is great that the club trys to fill out the ground there has to be more of an incentive for the 25 odd thousand who purchase a full season ticket before the season starts with loyalty and backing with their hard earned, that it is not going to be thrown back in their faces by being cheaper if they wait until the season starts!
Ticket prices are a personal issue but my own circumstances show that my ticket in L3 went up by £40 and because of the scrappage of the under 12 bracket to flat under 16, my 9 year olds seat went up £80 from £150 to £230. To then be told it would have been cheaper to have waited till midseason is a little bit of a slap in the face.
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I've got no problem whatsoever with the club having ticket deals every so often, in fact i think the lastest 'Autuum 5' promotion and half season tickets are a great idea, although i can understand if other ST holders feel frustrated by it.
As suggested, maybe the club should do more to make having a ST more beneficial. Scrapping or reducing the £4 entry fee into the Holte Suite and Holte Pub would be a start. Maybe a £10 off voucher for the new shirt every season?
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Don't see the club have any other choice, but I think they made a mistake putting up the prices this season.
Having said that, pop over to the Spurs website and check out their matchday prices.
what, the club with champions league games?
Yep, so next time you question our prices think what it costs to fund a champions league team and whether or not you'd be happy to pay it.
It's too expensive to go to football but Villa are among the least worst.
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Thing is, if the 4 of us (that did forked out for season tickets at the start of the season) had bought match by match tickets so far this season and used all the offers for the rest of the season, we would have saved enough money to between us to pay for Wembley tickets (if we get there) and still get tickets due to our poor season ticket sales.
I'm not sure that's true, or if it is only by sitting in the cheaper seats when I presume your ST is for a place you like to sit. It's an often overlooked fact that most of the best seats, rightly, go to ST holders, leaving less choice for the casual fan or the half season ticket buyer. I also prefer going to games with more people in the ground so if this is the only way of doing it then so be it.
I can sort of see why people get pissed off if they think they're missing out but when times are hard I think the club should be applauded for trying to make tickets more affordable even if their reasons are not entirely altruistic.
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Thing is, if the 4 of us (that did forked out for season tickets at the start of the season) had bought match by match tickets so far this season and used all the offers for the rest of the season, we would have saved enough money to between us to pay for Wembley tickets (if we get there) and still get tickets due to our poor season ticket sales.
Now, this is the part I'm unsure about.
I'm a ST holder and I buy my ticket, which works out to £x per game. If by only getting a half ST and taking up other offers, plus buying full price when there isn't, I could see all the games for less per game, then there's something gone wrong somewhere. I haven't done the maths, but is this definately the case?
My initial thoughts are "Fair play to the club - if they weren't trying to bump up attendances they'd be getting blamed for that." And I'm still not overly concerned as I'm sure I'll renew next year regardless. Yet my concern is a fall in ST sales, which will then hurt the club, if people think there's cheaper ways of doing things.
As I understand it, the extra 2 games on the half ST are subject to early purchase? If then the balance can be redressed by a similar deal for full STs - say 10% off if you buy by 01/06? And I'm fully behind ST holders getting cheaper cup prices also.
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I've always paid per game as I have been unable to attend some games due to other commitments.I have just commited to a half season ticket as a trial really.If things work out ie being able to attend most games ( although Spurz is already out of the window).I would commit to a full season ticket next year.So looking at it that way,presuming other people are in the same position as me it's a positive thing especially if the football is improving on the pitch hopefully the uptake will increase
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How exactly do you make it less expensive and remain competitive paulie? Especially when the game itself has no intention of participating. Wages aren't coming down and neither are transfers. I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's a genuine question.
The board have done what they can to make it "less expensive". You make it sound as though the recession is only in Birmingham and nowhere else. Somehow, with higher prices they fill out other stadiums of our main competitors. Maybe there is s fundamental problem in the area, that in England's second city we can't get close to filling either stadium on a Saturday. I'm not being cynical. I'm pointing what happens when the board tries something new or different. How about somebody come up with something better that makes everyone happy. It's not easy at all. I'd be very interested to to hear what they should have done instead.
Sorry, Toronto, but you're totally missing the point, still.
It isn't just about them making it less expensive per se. I think our tickets are not expensive when compared to other clubs, as I've said every single time ticket prices are discussed on here. I also think season tickets are reasonably priced, too. What's more, I'm personally not bothered about the fact I could probably have saved money on my season ticket by going match by match.
I also think they're right to do what they can to boost attendances.
But the entire point I was making was that to imagine season ticket income exists in some kind of bubble, uninfluenced by the cost of buying tickets from match to match is naive, and that too many of these deals and a large percentage of season ticket holders will consider whether or not they renew next season.
It seems pretty obvious these deals will have an impact, and to rail off at people who have actually forked out hundreds of pounds for their season tickets and maybe now feel aggrieved that, having been told it was the cheapest way by far to view the club (remember the hoo-haah on here about the wording of that promotional stuff a few months ago?), that might not even be the case, seems a little dismissive of the financial realities people face when investing a large lump sum like this.
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It OK by me as long as any deal or combination of deals, whereby you can attend all matches, does not end up cheaper than a full Season Ticket.
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Redsox:
I think the point people are getting at here is that it does work out cheaper. I'm unsure, I've not worked it out.
I'm quite tempted to get a half season ticket though ... By looking at the prices I don't think they're gonna be that tough to fund. I'll obviously have to think about it in the long run (including match attendance, parking, etc.) but I'm strongly considering it.
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Redsox:
I think the point people are getting at here is that it does work out cheaper. I'm unsure, I've not worked it out.
This is key though. One person on here has said that it works out cheaper and no one has been bothered to check his maths - I certainly can't be arsed to.
Everyone else who's worked the maths out has come to the conclusion that buying a season ticket is still quite a bit cheaper.
So we've now got a 3 page thread on someone's hunch, backed up by someone else's workings, that season tickets are now more expensive than taking up the offers, despite the much larger body of opinion that they're not.
Add to this the number of season ticket holders who've come on to this thread to say they wouldn't change a thing.
The other issue I have is paulie's view that if one person says something's wrong the club has to do something about it. Everyone is not always going to agree and the club can't appease the minority all the time - all they'll ever do is create a new minority (or maybe a majority) who disagree with the new view.
It would also be nice for those criticising the club to occassionally offer an alternative or a preferred solution. Makes it more constructive than apparently coming across as a bit of a whinge!
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The other issue I have is paulie's view that if one person says something's wrong the club has to do something about it. Everyone is not always going to agree and the club can't appease the minority all the time - all they'll ever do is create a new minority (or maybe a majority) who disagree with the new view.
Errr, where did i suggest that?
I suggested that there's an issue to be discussed, clearly, as someone's raised it here. I also didn't demand the club do anything, I pointed out that it's a very fine line between promoting match tickets and devaluing season tickets.
It's also not just about it being cheaper than having a season ticket - it's about decreasing the obvious benefits and making it hard to sell them next season.
It would also be nice for those criticising the club to occassionally offer an alternative or a preferred solution. Makes it more constructive than apparently coming across as a bit of a whinge!
I did. "Be careful in the match day ticket offers, it's a difficult one to get right".
Why don't you be constructive now? Rather than saying "stop moaning".
*wink*
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Dammit. This has just got the better of me so I've done some research.
My season ticket in the Holte Lower Centre was £450.
The half season ticket for the same area is £260.
The autumn 5 thing for the same area is £140.
Total therefore of £400.
The above covers 16 games (Blackpool is included in both). Which means the missing games were West Ham, Everton, and Bolton. Unless you could get tickets in the Holte Lower Centre for all three for under £50 (which I don't know but I'd be surprised if you could) then the season ticket remains cheaper.
Add to this the other benefits of the 10% off all merchandise (great for birthday and Christmas presents); entry to the Holte Pub, Holte Suite, etc on match days (although I agree it would be nice if it was free); the fact you get your pick of the best seats and get to keep it all season; the absence of any hassle on match day; having first dibs on away games and cup games, free entry into reserve games; the list goes on.
And no, I don't work for the club. As Rafa Benitez would say, I'm a fan of facts!!!!
Constructive enough paulie?!
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None of the points you raised are at doubt, Adam, the point was that the biggest financial benefit of a season ticket is that it costs you much less to go to all the matches.
Even in your own example, the season ticket is only marginally cheaper.
The point is that the more you narrow the margin (and these ticket offers do), the less of a financial incentive there is for the season ticket, and the harder it gets to persuade people to give you all the money well before the season even starts.
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I just hope the club can persuade a thousand or so to buy one, else I can see gates slipping down from last season after already slipping from the season before.
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The key point is that increasingly, if the various forums are to be believed (yes I know the internet is not the real world!), ST holders are starting to feel aggrieved that their loyalty in paying up front is being eroded.
As in any business, it's not a good idea to piss off your best customers. The club need to be aware of this whilst still trying to fill seats. It's a fine line.
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The key point is that increasingly, if the various forums are to be believed (yes I know the internet is not the real world!), ST holders are starting to feel aggrieved that their loyalty in paying up front is being eroded.
Again, the view of the minority is blown up as the view of the majority.
From running through this thread there are 4 people who roughly fall in to the "The club is ripping season ticket holders off" camp (being mrvilla, pauliewalnuts, rutski, PMcGNo5Shirt) and 8 in the "The club are just doing what they can to sell tickets and I don't mind it" camp (being me, toronto, pete3206, clampy, chrissmith, johnm, villaalways, ukredsox).
Some of those are borderline but hopefully it's a pretty clear indication that the majority think the club are doing the right thing and it's not going to affect future season ticket sales.
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The key point is that increasingly, if the various forums are to be believed (yes I know the internet is not the real world!), ST holders are starting to feel aggrieved that their loyalty in paying up front is being eroded.
Again, the view of the minority is blown up as the view of the majority.
Such is the way of internet forums.
But - if there is an slow but increasing sense of annoyance amongst on-line ST holders that their investment no longer worth what it was, then you can be sure that this will be replicated across the whole fanbase.
Yes it's still a minority, but the club cannot afford to ignore this, ST holders are, by the very definition, the most loyal fans the club has, no business can afford to piss off it's best customers.
I don't expect you to understand and I do expect you to dismiss this as mere whinging, but hopefully those with the responsibility for this sort of thing at the club won't be so dismissive.
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I'm not being dismissive. Just arguing the case for the defence!
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I'm not being dismissive. Just arguing the case for the defence!
Fair enough Adam, but Prince William is stil a ******.
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The key point is that increasingly, if the various forums are to be believed (yes I know the internet is not the real world!), ST holders are starting to feel aggrieved that their loyalty in paying up front is being eroded.
Again, the view of the minority is blown up as the view of the majority.
From running through this thread there are 4 people who roughly fall in to the "The club is ripping season ticket holders off" camp (being mrvilla, pauliewalnuts, rutski, PMcGNo5Shirt) and 8 in the "The club are just doing what they can to sell tickets and I don't mind it" camp (being me, toronto, pete3206, clampy, chrissmith, johnm, villaalways, ukredsox).
Some of those are borderline but hopefully it's a pretty clear indication that the majority think the club are doing the right thing and it's not going to affect future season ticket sales.
i would actually like to know who out of the 'passive8' go to all the games? I know toronto does not as he lives inanother country, but more importantly how many season ticket holders do not mind deals getting dished out willy nilly!
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<head above parapet>
I'm a season ticket holder and I don't mind deals being given out willy and indeed nilly!
<runs and ducks>
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I've always paid per game as I have been unable to attend some games due to other commitments.I have just commited to a half season ticket as a trial really.If things work out ie being able to attend most games ( although Spurz is already out of the window).I would commit to a full season ticket next year.So looking at it that way,presuming other people are in the same position as me it's a positive thing especially if the football is improving on the pitch hopefully the uptake will increase
I am one of the passive 8 and this is my current stand on the issue
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The key point is that increasingly, if the various forums are to be believed (yes I know the internet is not the real world!), ST holders are starting to feel aggrieved that their loyalty in paying up front is being eroded.
Again, the view of the minority is blown up as the view of the majority.
From running through this thread there are 4 people who roughly fall in to the "The club is ripping season ticket holders off" camp (being mrvilla, pauliewalnuts, rutski, PMcGNo5Shirt) and 8 in the "The club are just doing what they can to sell tickets and I don't mind it" camp (being me, toronto, pete3206, clampy, chrissmith, johnm, villaalways, ukredsox).
Some of those are borderline but hopefully it's a pretty clear indication that the majority think the club are doing the right thing and it's not going to affect future season ticket sales.
i would actually like to know who out of the 'passive8' go to all the games? I know toronto does not as he lives inanother country, but more importantly how many season ticket holders do not mind deals getting dished out willy nilly!
I wasn't trying to dismiss or disrespect the views of any season ticket holder. On the contrary I have a great deal of respect for them, as I used to be one myself. My stance is that I want our ground to be full. I want our board to be able give the manager money to spend on players. I want our board to be able improve VP and its services. I don't care if someone when the calculations are all broken down on average spent a couple of quid less than me per ticket, but ultimately could only afford to buy half a season ticket or a 5 game pack or whatever. I honestly don't care. I want more of my VP brothers in the stadium making a lot of noise and cheering the team to victory. What I despise is empty seats and the impression it portrays of ourselves as fans of this great club. Yes, times are difficult, but other top teams seems to sell out while charging more than we do. If by having various packages we arrest this decline and fill the stadium then I'm 100% behind it.
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That's the point - it might fill the ground a couple more tines this season but what are the long term effects on season ticket holder numbers?
If the longer term (ie next season) impact is to reduce full season tickwt holder numbers then it is short term gain, long term loss.
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From running through this thread there are 4 people who roughly fall in to the "The club is ripping season ticket holders off" camp (being mrvilla, pauliewalnuts, rutski, PMcGNo5Shirt) and 8 in the "The club are just doing what they can to sell tickets and I don't mind it" camp (being me, toronto, pete3206, clampy, chrissmith, johnm, villaalways, ukredsox).
One of the themes of this thread, Adam, is that you're clearly not actually reading what people are saying.
I have been at pains to say I understand why they're doing it, that I don't have a problem with it from my own point of view, and I have at no point whatsoever even hinted that "the club are ripping people off".
I pointed out that they're diminishing the benefits for ST holders and that it is a fine line to walk.
If you see that as "the club are eviil, they're ripping us of" then that's your shout, but you're wrong.
Some of those are borderline but hopefully it's a pretty clear indication that the majority think the club are doing the right thing and it's not going to affect future season ticket sales.
You cite an example of eight people thinking it's not a problem at all, and four thinking it could be and then use that as an indication that most people think it won't affect season ticket sales.
Do you think the club would be comfortable for one in every three eason ticket holders to be thinking about whether there's any financial value in buying a season ticket?
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One of the themes of this thread, Adam, is that you're clearly not actually reading what people are saying.
Who's being dismissive now paulie?
I am reading every post but I fundamentally disagree with you. Your points seem to be two fold - 1) that the club devalues season tickets by introducing offers during the season for non-season ticket holders; and 2) that if the club keep doing this they'll reduce season ticket holder numbers.
On the first point, for them to devalue something it must be worth less than it was before. As long as I've had a season ticket (which is a good few years now) the club have issued half season tickets and also done deals during the season. It happens. Anyone who thinks that they're buying a season ticket on the basis all games will be full price if they don't is being naive. So where's the devaluation?
On your second point I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. There is a small number of people on here who have raised an issue on what I consider to be either a hunch or flawed logic, depending on your point of view. The realities are that a season ticket remains the cheapest way to watch the team (which I also think was what the marketing literature said at the start of the season) and that's unchanged despite some posters announcing that it's not or that they think I might not be.
You're dead right that if the club created a situation where season tickets lose this status as the cheapest way to watch a game we'd have an issue but they haven't and I don't think we do.
Do you think the club would be comfortable for one in every three eason ticket holders to be thinking about whether there's any financial value in buying a season ticket?
Where's the evidence this is the case? As above, a small number of people in a small sample made a point they thought season tickets weren't cheaper when compared to other offers. We've since pretty much proven that's not the case. I'd hope that by putting some maths into this some of those people feel slightly comforted that their value is still there. If so, then the issue becomes even less.
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That's the point - it might fill the ground a couple more tines this season but what are the long term effects on season ticket holder numbers?
If the longer term (ie next season) impact is to reduce full season tickwt holder numbers then it is short term gain, long term loss.
Paulie, I completely disagree with you that 1) Having offers during the season is less valuable than a season ticket holder, and that season ticket holders make a decision on "their" purchase decision based on what may or may not be offered by the club during the season. Each person is independent in that respect, and they will have to factor their own finances as it relates to the product on offer and in some respects their degree of loyalty to the club. By offering such deals, as it did for me when I first had a half season ticket, it got me to love the club more. For many who couldn't afford a full package in the summer, it will give them a taste and hopefully influence more of them to buy full tickets the following season. That is the intent of the club. I cannot imagine that most season ticket holders will look at this and suggest the club are screwing them, or indeed, if they don't know about this, turn to the bloke next the them at the ground, asking him what he paid, do a quick calculation and suddenly become disgruntled. The product on their field and their own finances will influence that more that anything else.
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I would have thought that the lower the saving to be had by paying in advance, the less attractive it is is basic economics.
NB Adam,.I'm not saying its going to become zero saving, just less of a saving.
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It becomes even more of an issue if ST holders are forced to miss a game or two due to changed KO times, then there is definitely a chance that they won't make any savings.
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I think the matchday prices were pitched far too high at the start of the season. Bearing in mind the visitors so far at Villa Park, the crowds have not been that bad. But, I can't see any game selling out this season because we have a clutch of 'AA' fixtures within a couple of months and the prices will put people off, especially when people can watch all games in certain pubs now.
The club is in a dicey position and I think, very worried about declining attendances. Special offers therefore are unavoidable because they feel they must do something, anything to get punters back through the turnstiles. As a season ticket holder, it narks me a bit, but I'd rather see 38,000 in the ground, than 32,000. Plus, I've always got my regular seat anyway and avoid the big panic whenever the really special occasions come around (as rare as they are).
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It becomes even more of an issue if ST holders are forced to miss a game or two due to changed KO times, then there is definitely a chance that they won't make any savings.
That's a good point Dave. I think refunds should be available if you can't make a game.
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I think the matchday prices were pitched far too high at the start of the season. Bearing in mind the visitors so far at Villa Park, the crowds have not been that bad. But, I can't see any game selling out this season because we have a clutch of 'AA' fixtures within a couple of months and the prices will put people off, especially when people can watch all games in certain pubs now.
The club is in a dicey position and I think, very worried about declining attendances. Special offers therefore are unavoidable because they feel they must do something, anything to get punters back through the turnstiles.As a season ticket holder, it narks me a bit, but I'd rather see 38,000 in the ground, than 32,000. Plus, I've always got my regular seat anyway and avoid the big panic whenever the really special occasions come around (as rare as they are).
Those are my thoughts on the issue, although it doesn't really nark me that much with relation to my own ST.
My single worry about this is that having had to use all these offers this season, next season we'll find ourselves with fewer season ticket holders than we did this season, as those people will be looking at the narrowed financial incentive, thinking that they can wait a short amount of time (three home games is it? or four? brain stopped working) and see what the half season ticket offer is like.
I'll still renew mine (assuming no catastrophic change in my personal circumstances), but I do wonder how many of the other 25,000 or so of us will think the same way, especially when the economic situation gets tighter and forces tougher decisions - it won't be a case of "can't afford it, can't go" for everyone in a tricky situation, the level of saving achieved by buying a ST is going to be a key factor for many people.