Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: alanclare on October 07, 2010, 08:28:44 AM
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From today's Times:
Liverpool should have taken a lesson from Aston Villa
Doug Ellis
George Gillet, currently the co-owner of Liverpool Football Club, was among the suitors who wished to buy Aston Villa when, after three operations, I decided to drop my previous stance that they would have to take me out of the club toes up. The Birmingham Evening Mail ran the headline “Doug Will Sell” and this attracted a lot of predators. The independent valuation was £115 million. As I thought I was on my death bed, this was reduced by £30 million.
Gillett, the American who owned a hockey team and two ski resorts, badly wanted the club, and was willing to meet the new asking price. On his second visit, I told him that at a community club such as Aston Villa the owner should live in situ. He said he could not, but that his son would.
All but one of the suitors, I was informed by Rothschilds, were borrowing money to strike the deal. I do not believe in borrowing. It is against my principles. And I do not believe it is the way a football club should be run. The exception was Randy Lerner. When he came over to see me, he was soon followed by his bank manager.
I was impressed by Lerner's demeanour and by his record. On his third visit, after complimenting me on appointing Martin O'Neill as manager, he said he would pay £20 million less than the asking price � but in cash. He asked me to trust him when declining to pay £20 million into a fund for Martin to spend on players. Trust a Yank?" I thought. "Never."
But we had lunch, I came to trust him and he has kept his word to the letter. They have not overreached themselves, they continue to bring through young players and they are building for a sustainable future rather, than a fast buck.
I could have benefited by £20 million but I did not wish to saddle the dub I had run since 1968 with debt. I believed Randy was the right man and so far I have been proved right. I've never been so popular with Villa fans as since I relinquished the chair.
It is not for me to criticise other clubs. But about Liverpool I can say that it is not the way I would have run it � because I wouldn't have started from where Gillett and Tom Hicks started. Liverpool are following the model of Real Madrid and Barcelona, who run up massive debts but have the banks nervous of calling them in for fear of upsetting big investors. Gillett is a nice enough fellow but he and Hicks are hardly ever there. I have yet to meet them in the Anfield boardroom.
I know Michel Platini and Uefa want to prevent clubs running up huge debts. It will be hard to implement. But it is the right direction to go.
Doug Ellis was chairman of Aston Villa 1968-2006
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Almost as toe-curlingly self-indulgent as the scousers themselves. But he's right: the day he fucked off his popularity soared.
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Almost as toe-curlingly self-indulgent as the scousers themselves. But he's right: the day he fucked off his popularity soared.
...but only in the eyes of those little people whose lives are plagued by jealousy.
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Jealous of what, exactly?
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Interesting
I thought Doug had a legal obligation to get the best result for the shareholders, though, not to knock 30m off the price because he thought he was dying.
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Almost as toe-curlingly self-indulgent as the scousers themselves. But he's right: the day he fucked off his popularity soared.
...but only in the eyes of those little people whose lives are plagued by jealousy.
Either way Jimbo is right.
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At least we had a lucky escape from gillette and hicks.
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Are we really supposed to believe that Doug appointed MON before meeting with Randy, and that MON knew nothing of
Randy's impending arrival when he agreed to come?
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At least we had a lucky escape from gillette and hicks.
To be fair to Doug, he had that pair pegged.
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Are we really supposed to believe that Doug appointed MON before meeting with Randy, and that MON knew nothing of
Randy's impending arrival when he agreed to come?
Wasn't Klinsmann Randy's first choice, but he found out MON had been appointed and changed his mind?
I think it is more a case of MON only accepting the role because he knew Doug Ellis was on his way out than what Randy knew.
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At least we had a lucky escape from gillette and hicks.
I never have nor will be a Doug fan, but I do think that selling to Randy shows he actually had the best intentions when running the club, even if his methods were holding us back.
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Doug could without doubt have sold for more money but took into account what was in the long term interests of the club.
A stark contrast to Gillett and Hicks dragging Liverpool through the High Court, stalling and dragging things out in an attempt to get a few million more.
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He's a fucking hero that man ;)
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Are we really supposed to believe that Doug appointed MON before meeting with Randy, and that MON knew nothing of
Randy's impending arrival when he agreed to come?
My guess is there would have been at least informal assurances behind the scenes with all three parties, which would have meant there had to be high levels of trust with all three taking each others word. Even if you give Doug only partial credit for MONs appointment (subsequent events 4 years down the line notwithstanding), we have to give him full credit for getting the previous manager to MON out of Villa Park.
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Jealous of what, exactly?
Jealous of a self-made man who has been far more successful in his life than they have, who ran a successful football club and left it in a healthy financial state.
If the cap fits, wear it.
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A stark contrast to Gillett and Hicks dragging Liverpool through the High Court, stalling and dragging things out in an attempt to get a few million more.
Neither Gillett or Hicks is on his death bed. As Doug quite freely admits in the above article, that's the only reason he decided to go. There was no magnanimity in his decision whatsoever. He wanted to leave a positive legacy for the good of the club, sure, but only as long as it would reflect well on him. It has, and he's never tired of reminding us of the fact.
If he'd really been operating in the best interests of the club, he would have walked away after getting it relegated five years after it won the European Cup. But this is tired old ground. Nothing alters the fact that he has an ego bigger than both Gillett and Hicks put together, and that the best thing he ever did for the club was sell to a far better man.
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Jealous of what, exactly?
Jealous of a self-made man who has been far more successful in his life than they have, who ran a successful football club and left it in a healthy financial state.
If the cap fits, wear it.
The only cap I can picture you wearing at this moment has a big D written on it. You appear to be labouring under the delusion that I am in the slightest bit interested in Doug Ellis' wealth. He might have made a hundred billion pounds out of the sale of Aston Villa, for all I care, as long as he got out of the club. And as for the club being successful, please try to remember the state of affairs when he left. This may be hard for a revisionist like yourself, but try.
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If the cap fits, wear it.
Lucky it doesn't, really.
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It's well known that Doug doesn't get on with his son, so he just had to do that deal himself rather than 'risk' dying and leaving his son to sort the deal out.
Any other businessman would surely have got the best price and if that meant leaving his son ( in Doug's case) to oversee the transaction, then so be it.
I see this as an act of an egocentric old man.
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You can either remain bitter and frothing at the mouth with every mention of his name or you can smile at the sight of Doug heading towards his tenth decade as egotistical and publicity-hungry as ever.
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Jealous of what, exactly?
Jealous of a self-made man who has been far more successful in his life than they have, who ran a successful football club and left it in a healthy financial state.
If the cap fits, wear it.
The only cap I can picture you wearing at this moment has a big D written on it. You appear to be labouring under the delusion that I am in the slightest bit interested in Doug Ellis' wealth. He might have made a hundred billion pounds out of the sale of Aston Villa, for all I care, as long as he got out of the club. And as for the club being successful, please try to remember the state of affairs when he left. This may be hard for a revisionist like yourself, but try.
...as for the club being successful, please try to remember the state of affairs when he arrived.
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You can either remain bitter and frothing at the mouth with every mention of his name or you can smile at the sight of Doug heading towards his tenth decade as egotistical and publicity-hungry as ever.
Beautifully put, Dave.
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You can either remain bitter and frothing at the mouth with every mention of his name or you can smile at the sight of Doug heading towards his tenth decade as egotistical and publicity-hungry as ever.
I'm not sure whether that rather hyperbolic and melodramatic statement was aimed at me, Dave, but let me just set the record straight.
I'd be more than happy for Doug to enjoy his vast fortune until the age of 165. I just find it a little tiresome that his self-indulgent ramblings about how he did this or that for Aston Villa keep cropping up with such regularity. I can think of other people, far more deserving of the publicity, who might rattle on about how they did things for the benefit of Aston Villa and its fans, but most of them have the humility, modesty and good grace to keep a low profile. Randy Lerner is one of them.
No bitterness, no frothing, but when somebody accuses me of being jealous when I quite clearly am not, I'm going to put them back in their place.
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This may be hard for a revisionist like yourself, but try.
Gosh - it's very easy to wind you up, ain't it?
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The thing with Doug is that people tend to view him in black or white terms.
Regardless of the fact that he was an ego-centric, relatively parsimonious, ultra-cautious and unambitious chairman, you have to consider the state the club were in in 1968 when he took over.
Shit, did I just defend Doug?
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Doug says "Liverpool should take a lesson from Villa/Me"
What, you mean take the European Champions into a relegation dogfight inside 5 years?
Bless him.
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Advice to any newcomers to the site.
If you want to get noticed on here by starting threads but are worried they will just drift away without any responses, insert two words in your text.....Doug and Ellis.
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This may be hard for a revisionist like yourself, but try.
Gosh - it's very easy to wind you up, ain't it?
Oh, sorry, I didn't realise it was all a big wind-up. Ha, ha - good one.
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A stark contrast to Gillett and Hicks dragging Liverpool through the High Court, stalling and dragging things out in an attempt to get a few million more.
Nothing alters the fact that he has an ego bigger than both Gillett and Hicks put together
Talking of ego maniacs, look no futher than Gold and Sullivan, and be thankful we had Doug.
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From today's Times:
Doug Ellis was chairman of Aston Villa 1968-2006
Note to the Times:
"Ellis was a controversial chairman and major shareholder of Aston Villa for two separate spells; the first being from 1968 to 1975. Ellis was replaced as chairman and finally ousted from the board in 1979. During his absence Aston Villa enjoyed its greatest period of success in modern times, winning the Football League title in 1981 and the European Cup in 1982."
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From today's Times:
I could have benefited by £20 million but I did not wish to saddle the club I had run since 1968 with debt.
This is the bit I love - the revisionist way in which he smoothly passes over the crucial facts of his 4-5 year absence at the end of the 1970's / early '80s.
Don't blame him for doing it but it does institutionalise the myth about his reign including a league championship and Euro Cup.
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Interesting
I thought Doug had a legal obligation to get the best result for the shareholders, though, not to knock 30m off the price because he thought he was dying.
An interesting point. Most fan shareholders probably wouldn't be that bothered but institutional investors might be interested to know their potential returns were arbitrarily slashed by 26% because Doug thought he was pegging it and and then a further 17% because Randy was his preferred buyer.
Also interesting what he says about borrowing. Surprising he ever succeeded as a businessman if that's his outlook.
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Let's face it, it was only a matter of time before Doug would lay credit to his stewardship being responsible for those 80's successes. I bet most fans under the age of 35 not clued up on the clubs history think he was in charge at that time. Why else would he have a stand named after him?
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Most fan shareholders probably wouldn't be that bothered but institutional investors might be interested to know their potential returns were arbitrarily slashed by 26%
I never sold my shares when Randy made the compulsory purchase offer (or whatever it was called). I've still got the share certificate framed on the wall at home.
No sell out to the Yank blood money in my household.
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Let's face it, it was only a matter of time before Doug would lay credit to his stewardship being responsible for those 80's successes. I bet most fans under the age of 35 not clued up on the clubs history think he was in charge at that time. Why else would he have a stand named after him?
That made me giggle
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You couldn't make it up could you?
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I don't really have any strong feelings about Doug talking to the press or not.
He's being asked questions by the press, his decision making process re whether to say anything or shut up are is that of someone in his late 80s, so maybe we should cut him a bit of slack there.
Hve to say, though, now of all times his sussing out of the shyster Gillet looks like a very cute bit of business by him, so you can hardly blame him for wanting to point out that he averted (possibly) similar disaster for Villa.
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I like Doug, he did the best he could (wether it was good enough or not is up for debate) and left us with a good owner going forward. He was never as bad as his crtics claimed and never as good as he thought he was.
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I like Doug, he did the best he could (wether it was good enough or not is up for debate) and left us with a good owner going forward. He was never as bad as his crtics claimed and never as good as he thought he was.
In fairness to Doug, no-one could be as good as he thought he was.
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To be fair to Doug, ignoring a European Cup winning team for the club you say you love because you weren't in charge at the time and ego refuses to let you even acknowledge it happened, is a feat simply beyond most normal mortals.
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The thing with Doug is that people tend to view him in black or white terms.
Regardless of the fact that he was an ego-centric, relatively parsimonious, ultra-cautious and unambitious chairman, you have to consider the state the club were in in 1968 when he took over.
Shit, did I just defend Doug?
ha ha, remember the banner up the holte mate?
Cock, Piss Ell-is
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Hve to say, though, now of all times his sussing out of the shyster Gillet looks like a very cute bit of business by him, so you can hardly blame him for wanting to point out that he averted (possibly) similar disaster for Villa.
Or he just chose a cash buyer because he wanted a quick sale, before he was welcomed by St Peter at the Great Doug Ellis Pearly Gates, as they will soon become known as.
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ha ha, remember the banner up the holte mate?
Cock, Piss Ell-is
you know what, Rob? I've still got that old model of Villa Park at home (the one with the old Trinity Road stand, complete with a mock-up of that banner in the back of the Holte.
A witty combination of Alan Partridge and anti Ellis
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Or he just chose a cash buyer because he wanted a quick sale, before he was welcomed by St Peter at the Great Doug Ellis Pearly Gates, as they will soon become known as.
They may be, but he'll be snookered when he is called before the throne of heaven and sees our Paul sitting there.
"Now then, Herbert; "Thou shalt not bear false witness" and "I invented the bicycle kick" - explain how these two go together, please?"
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ha ha, remember the banner up the holte mate?
Cock, Piss Ell-is
you know what, Rob? I've still got that old model of Villa Park at home (the one with the old Trinity Road stand, complete with a mock-up of that banner in the back of the Holte.
A witty combination of Alan Partridge and anti Ellis
did you manage to glue the roof back on the north stand yet??
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Typical Doug.
A mix of sound (if conservative business sense), well meaning intent for the club set against a revision of history and self publicity. What else does anyone expect?
On the plus side I'm quite getting to like his smug, paternal actions and quotes. Loved seeing him shake Ambramovic's hand and now him telling the rest of the world how to run a club - and them not having a leg to stand on to say f**k off. Keep 'em coming ... lol
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did you manage to glue the roof back on the north stand yet??
Not yet, although it's on my "to do" list.
It's only been broke for 6 years, give me a chance....
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Come on lads Doug is in his eighties now. Lets just "pretend" he was in charge when we won the european cup. He is not hurting anyone ...................
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Can't help but like Doug. Even if he was a somewhat clueless chairman, he clearly loved the club and bailed us out financially in the 80s. His methods ensured we have had very limited success since but also that we have been incredibly financially stable. Hopefully his conservative nature has given us a stable enough platform to build on.
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There's an elderly gentleman on the P13 bus who will announce to anyone who will listen that it's his birthday and he's off to the seaside.
He says it every day, and the P13 goes to New Cross.
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He invented the bicycle kick don't you know?
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Oh doug, i miss your dougonomics. The man could make a Dairy mailk cost £1.4 million when you added on dougonomics.
Thing is it looks like his happy go lucky revised history of his tenure will stick thanks to meaning evil. nice.
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You can either remain bitter and frothing at the mouth with every mention of his name or you can smile at the sight of Doug heading towards his tenth decade as egotistical and publicity-hungry as ever.
I'm not sure whether that rather hyperbolic and melodramatic statement was aimed at me, Dave, but let me just set the record straight.
I'd be more than happy for Doug to enjoy his vast fortune until the age of 165. I just find it a little tiresome that his self-indulgent ramblings about how he did this or that for Aston Villa keep cropping up with such regularity. I can think of other people, far more deserving of the publicity, who might rattle on about how they did things for the benefit of Aston Villa and its fans, but most of them have the humility, modesty and good grace to keep a low profile. Randy Lerner is one of them.
No bitterness, no frothing, but when somebody accuses me of being jealous when I quite clearly am not, I'm going to put them back in their place.
It wasn't aimed at you, and phrases like "hyperbolic and melodramatic" don't put anyone back in their place.
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You just seem a bit bitter and twisted about him to me Jimbo.
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Quite right, Dave, and if you read my post you'll see it wasn't you that I was referring to, but the person on a wind-up who accused me of being 'jealous'.
Legion, you can think what you like but you're well wide of the mark. I just don't buy into this 'cuddly old Doug' revisionism. I wonder how many people would be as forgiving to a certain pug-nosed Irishman if he continually popped up in the press spouting self-important rubbish in relation to our club. Just so you know for sure, I have no great liking for either of them, but bitter and twisted? Nah.
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The big difference is hindsight. It will never prove O'Leary as anything other than a self-obsessed incompetent. However, looking back at it, a fair chunk of what Doug did from the mid-nineties onwards proved correct.
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Dave, I agree that in hindsight, some of the things he did were positive. As Chico pointed out earlier, he's often seen in black and white terms, but time has helped to blur the edges grey. I'm glad he didn't sell to those shysters who are now causing havoc up at Anfield. I'll even thank him for selling to Randy.
From a personal perspective, the past is done and dusted, but when it's brought up by someone and revised to suit their agenda, then I'm going to question it. Just like I'd question someone if they told me that Cuba won the second world war.
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I agree that in hindsight, some of the things he did were positive. .... he's often seen in black and white terms, but time has helped to blur the edges grey. I'm glad he didn't sell to those shysters who are now causing havoc up at Anfield. I'll even thank him for selling to Randy.
Now, how do we reconcile this opinion of Cuddly Doug with one made at 8:36 this morning?
"Almost as toe-curlingly self-indulgent as the scousers themselves. But he's right: the day he fucked off his popularity soared."
By the way, there's a nice quote from General Krulak on the subject of Doug's article:
"Nice article from Doug. As I have said many times, he and I get along very well. His heart and soul remain Villa. I am not sure the MON issue went down quite the way he said but that is a nothing. He loves the Club and that is what counts."
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I agree that in hindsight, some of the things he did were positive. .... he's often seen in black and white terms, but time has helped to blur the edges grey. I'm glad he didn't sell to those shysters who are now causing havoc up at Anfield. I'll even thank him for selling to Randy.
Now, how do we reconcile this opinion of Cuddly Doug with one made at 8:36 this morning?
"Almost as toe-curlingly self-indulgent as the scousers themselves. But he's right: the day he fucked off his popularity soared."
Both opinions stand, wind-up boy. Just because he got a couple of decisions right doesn't mean he isn't self-indulgent in that article, and more popular among fans as a direct result of his leaving the club. If you're going to come back again, you must do better than that.
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What, sell their best players and budget for 11th as Aston Villa did under Herbert?
I'd very much like that to happen but I doubt the Redscouse will swallow it with the same relish as many of ours did, sadly.
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Both opinions stand, wind-up boy. Just because he got a couple of decisions right doesn't mean he isn't self-indulgent in that article, and more popular among fans as a direct result of his leaving the club. If you're going to come back again, you must do better than that.
I'm so glad that this "hyperbolic and melodramatic" nonsense is out there for everyone to read and draw their own conclusions from.
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I'm so glad that this "hyperbolic and melodramatic" nonsense is out there for everyone to read and draw their own conclusions from.
Yeah, me too.
Now, there's only a certain amount of time I'll give to needy, attention-seeking, inadequate wind-up merchants on the internet, and you've had your allocation. Be off with you.
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Hve to say, though, now of all times his sussing out of the shyster Gillet looks like a very cute bit of business by him, so you can hardly blame him for wanting to point out that he averted (possibly) similar disaster for Villa.
Or he just chose a cash buyer because he wanted a quick sale, before he was welcomed by St Peter at the Great Doug Ellis Pearly Gates, as they will soon become known as.
He could have sold out to Ray Ranson if he wanted a 'quick cash sale'.
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Now, there's only a certain amount of time I'll give to needy, attention-seeking, inadequate wind-up merchants on the internet, and you've had your allocation. Be off with you.
Take yourself very seriously much?
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Now, there's only a certain amount of time I'll give to needy, attention-seeking, inadequate wind-up merchants on the internet, and you've had your allocation. Be off with you.
Take yourself very seriously much?
Only on public holidays.
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Now, there's only a certain amount of time I'll give to needy, attention-seeking, inadequate wind-up merchants on the internet, and you've had your allocation. Be off with you.
Tut, tut. Temper.
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I think the lesson that Liverpool have indeed taken from Villa, or at least Villa under Doug, is to encourage your home fans to sing "You'll Never Walk Alone" on afternoons of momentous significance.
What the Scousers have realised, though, is that you don't need a fat bloke in a pink suit to orchestrate the singing.
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I just don't buy into this 'cuddly old Doug' revisionism.
Me neither.
Hindsight says what was being said at the time: Ellis stands accused of mediocrity. Even in the price he got for the club, he was mediocre. That is not to say that what he did did not bring some benefits - lack of indebtedness, a reasonable new owner, etc.
And nothing convinces me that (whilst he was in charge) he was not milking the club rotten.
But, yes, his avuncular dotage is both amusing and reassuring.
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The big difference is hindsight. It will never prove O'Leary as anything other than a self-obsessed incompetent. However, looking back at it, a fair chunk of what Doug did from the mid-nineties onwards proved correct.
Just out of interest Dave, what kind of things do you have in mind when you say he did a lot that proved correct?
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Fair play Doug did well in chosing a buyer and saved us in 68 and thanks for that. The thing is, we never would have won anything decent under him and i think we woulda been championship club right now if he stayed. He would never pay out for anyone when we needed it. He's a liar and an attension seeker. Got no time for him really. When will the stand be changed back?
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Me neither.
Hindsight says what was being said at the time: Ellis stands accused of mediocrity. Even in the price he got for the club, he was mediocre. That is not to say that what he did did not bring some benefits - lack of indebtedness, a reasonable new owner, etc.
And nothing convinces me that (whilst he was in charge) he was not milking the club rotten.
But, yes, his avuncular dotage is both amusing and reassuring.
Reasonable?
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I'm glad he's not in charge any more, but I really can't be bothered disliking him. Now he's just an elderly, slightly embarrassing gent who cares about the Villa. Plus that time he shook Abramovitch's hand with a look of pure delight on his face as we beat Chelsea made me smile.
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When will the stand be changed back?
I refuse to refer to it as anything other than the Witton Lane End.
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Me neither.
Hindsight says what was being said at the time: Ellis stands accused of mediocrity. Even in the price he got for the club, he was mediocre. That is not to say that what he did did not bring some benefits - lack of indebtedness, a reasonable new owner, etc.
And nothing convinces me that (whilst he was in charge) he was not milking the club rotten.
But, yes, his avuncular dotage is both amusing and reassuring.
Reasonable?
Ger, I used the word "reasonable" because the jury is still out - in 1973 people still thought Uncle Herbert was a top Chairman, so maybe I'm just cautious.
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When will the stand be changed back?
I refuse to refer to it as anything other than the Witton Lane End.
Are you sure about that John?
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Ellis stands accused of mediocrity. Even in the price he got for the club, he was mediocre. That is not to say that what he did did not bring some benefits - lack of indebtedness, a reasonable new owner, etc.
In short, the advantage of being mediocre is not being shit.
Doug was probably more harshly viewed by (some) Villa supporters than he deserved, but popularity isn't only about what you do but also about how you act.
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The big difference is hindsight. It will never prove O'Leary as anything other than a self-obsessed incompetent. However, looking back at it, a fair chunk of what Doug did from the mid-nineties onwards proved correct.
Just out of interest Dave, what kind of things do you have in mind when you say he did a lot that proved correct?
Questioning the price of a cup of coffee in Birmingham Airport?
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The big difference is hindsight. It will never prove O'Leary as anything other than a self-obsessed incompetent. However, looking back at it, a fair chunk of what Doug did from the mid-nineties onwards proved correct.
Just out of interest Dave, what kind of things do you have in mind when you say he did a lot that proved correct?
Questioning the price of a cup of coffee in Birmingham Airport?
Well, there was a recession five or six years around the corner. Now that's foresight.
I think it's important to remember, using hindsight, that while Doug probably wasn't Satan himself, and a doer of nothing but evil and terrible deeds, neither - and I understand how unpopular this view might be with many - was Dolly. He bought Martin Laursen, Freddie Bouma, finished 6th... etc. That doesn't mean he wasn't an unctuous turd, especially towards the end, but still.
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For me, the simple rule of Doug is he did a very good job first time around but should never have returned.
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The big difference is hindsight. It will never prove O'Leary as anything other than a self-obsessed incompetent. However, looking back at it, a fair chunk of what Doug did from the mid-nineties onwards proved correct.
Just out of interest Dave, what kind of things do you have in mind when you say he did a lot that proved correct?
Questioning the price of a cup of coffee in Birmingham Airport?
Well, there was a recession five or six years around the corner. Now that's foresight.
I think it's important to remember, using hindsight, that while Doug probably wasn't Satan himself, and a doer of nothing but evil and terrible deeds, neither - and I understand how unpopular this view might be with many - was Dolly. He bought Martin Laursen, Freddie Bouma, finished 6th... etc. That doesn't mean he wasn't an unctuous turd, especially towards the end, but still.
Herbert got manically tight towards the end because just before O'Leary's last season, he bought (I think) 6 players in at a cost of £15m, which was a lot for us, the end result of that was near relegation, during that season I reckon Herbert thought
'I've spent all that money and we're doing cack, when I spent next to nothing we finished 6th.'
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You can either remain bitter and frothing at the mouth with every mention of his name or you can smile at the sight of Doug heading towards his tenth decade as egotistical and publicity-hungry as ever.
Or maybe you can view Doug's often factually inaccurate and self serving pronouncements with the level of cynical scepticism that they deserve.
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You can either remain bitter and frothing at the mouth with every mention of his name or you can smile at the sight of Doug heading towards his tenth decade as egotistical and publicity-hungry as ever.
Or maybe you can view Doug's often factually inaccurate and self serving pronouncements with the level of cynical scepticism that they deserve.
Which is exactly what Dave is advocating.
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I've had enough of this '8 Ace' malarkey, change it to something more relevant like 'Hung like a draught excluder' Fletcher.
Go on.
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I'm glad he's not in charge any more, but I really can't be bothered disliking him. Now he's just an elderly, slightly embarrassing gent who cares about the Villa. Plus that time he shook Abramovitch's hand with a look of pure delight on his face as we beat Chelsea made me smile.
I agree.
There is something strangely endearing about the old sod at 86 still being the same old Doug.