Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on October 06, 2010, 01:03:16 PM

Title: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 06, 2010, 01:03:16 PM

Paul McGrath peers out across his perfectly manicured lawn to the closed electric gates that, simultaneously, comfort and imprison him.

A high sun dusts Monageer in wan, honeyed light and the view from his living room is all sweeping fields and rippling foliage. We are maybe an hour into the interview and I have just asked him maybe the only pertinent question remaining in the story of a 50-year-old grandfather still running from himself.

Do you understand why people fear where this will end, Paul?

"I worry myself," he sighs quietly after a pause. "I think of Alex (Higgins) and, obviously, George (Best). I even think of Paul Gascoigne. Because I do wonder to myself how long more I'm going to get through this.

"When I close those gates, I sometimes think that I may as well be in prison. For me, it's like being trapped. But it's a trap I've set myself. Now I'm saying to myself: 'The amount of damage that you've done outside.'

"Then again, in other ways, I've loved closing those gates behind me ... "

A set of dumb-bells glistens on the table as a kind of vain, redemptive statement. Upstairs, there is a bench-press for the days he's not feeling ruined. Visually, he looks well but Paul's appearance can -- routinely -- be a lie. Just climbing the stairs, he says, thieves his breath now. Often in the interview, he talks of not having "the energy" of old.

Chaos

His honesty reaches into deep recesses of chaos and dysfunction. Recently, he stood in court listening to the jigsaw of a black, drunken night being pieced together. The case resulted in him losing his driving licence for three years, a wholly compassionate penalty in the circumstances.

Only the kindness of a neighbour probably separated Paul from a custodial sentence. Two days after the incident, the 65-year-old victim had called to McGrath's house saying he would not press charges on the worst of what had occurred to him that evening.

Then he added something that cut Paul to the very core. "You know you were one of my heroes!"

Later this week, Paul will be in Dublin to launch a warts-and-all DVD of his story, 'Paul McGrath, My Life and Football'. There is a moment in it where he admits that he has been to "something like 13 or 14 rehabs" but that "a lot of times, within weeks, I'm drinking again".

And, ostensibly, it is hard to escape a sense of fecklessness in the alcoholic who lapses so habitually and easily. McGrath understands why people might think that way. Repetition eventually wears away all sympathy.

"Look, I've lost patience with myself," he sighs now. "Because I haven't really got the energy to do this anymore. I know people will say: 'Well just stop drinking! Don't pick it up. Hold your head high and do your walks.'

"Of course people are going to lose patience. But it just doesn't seem that easy for me. Even walking out that door now, I feel so self-conscious about some of the things that I've done. These people have really rallied round me, but I've tormented them up and down this road.

"I'm amazed they're still so supportive, but I could understand them thinking: 'Paul, enough is enough.' I basically knacker things up every time I come out."

He continues: "I know that I can't do too many more (rehabs). A lot of the fight is gone out of me. I seem forever drawn to this thing of 'I'll just get one last bottle from somewhere and that'll be it ... '

"Then I'll take one tablet too many or a drink on a tablet too many and I lose the plot. That's what's hurting me at the moment. Because I was told that this is what could happen. But I never thought I'd be up in front of a court for assaulting someone or taking a car.

"Drunk and disorderly maybe. But that? In all the scrapes I've had, I ended up on the floor most times. And when this man had the kindness to come up to my house and say the things he said, I just thought: 'This can't be right anymore ... '

Tiring

"It's very tiring and I honestly don't know where it's going to end up. But that incident threw me completely. I can only thank God he was so decent about it. I'm sure a lot of people are judging me now, wondering how I could have turned into 'that thing'.

"People, I suppose, will either understand or they won't."

It is four years since we collaborated on his autobiography, 'Back from the Brink', a publication that would prove the most successful Irish sports book in history. Paul's candour astonished many at the time and, in the months immediately after its success, he would describe doing 'Back from the Brink' as a cathartic experience.

Yet there has been little resolution since to any of the issues that made the book such a remarkable read. If anything, McGrath's life continues to lurch and wheel with increasingly destructive force. And he doesn't much like what he sees himself becoming.

"Something snapped in me that night that led to the court case," he says. "And I'm very concerned about that. Very much so. I mean I've been warned so many times in rehab that this doesn't get better. It gets worse. And here I am now, knowing that it is getting worse.

"When I did the book, everything felt hunky dory. But the last two years probably, I haven't been great. I have felt that I'm slipping back into my old ways.

"I don't like the way I've been acting lately. I'm becoming a person that I don't like. I'm upsetting people. Someone offers you 'a swift one' and, suddenly, you're in a group for the night.

"You don't know them and, to be fair, they don't know the likely consequences. Maybe they get their photograph taken with you. They don't know what I've become. It's why I like to stay behind the gates now. You might notice the garden's looking okay!"

Eight weeks ago, the birth of Talia conferred grandparent status on McGrath. He describes the little daughter of his eldest boy, Chris, as "absolutely gorgeous" and is looking forward to their first visit. "I want to be around to see her growing up," he says. Yet an inevitable anxiety lingers over how she will come to know her Irish grandfather.

"I'm genuinely trying to fight a winning battle," he reflects, "but I'm nearly certain I'm not winning it. People ask me will I go for a game of golf and I'll always go: 'Yeah, yeah, Jesus, love to ... ' and I know for a fact that I won't go 'cos I think to myself, that's out among the public again.

"If I'm being honest about it, I've never been that comfortable in people's company. And that hasn't changed. If anything, it is escalating. Something is not computing too well in my brain, I feel.

"And I've been taking things for so long that my brain is so used to the chemicals, I feel I almost can't function without them. The problem I have, I suppose, is that 80pc of the time I can carry it off.

"People who are close to me will know immediately if I've taken something. But most people would look at me with the suit on and be thinking: 'He's not doing too bad ... '

"I'm getting fed up with that. But mostly I'm fed up of being sick. I mean, I never believed drinking was an illness. I always thought it was just a weak person who couldn't say no, who wanted the bottle rather than look after his kids. Who wanted it to help him get through a game.

"I never believed that I couldn't beat it at some stage. I always thought there'd be a certain point where I'd just say: 'That's it, I've had it with this!' because my body, obviously, has taken a hammering.

"But then, in my mind, it's like I'm taking on the challenge too. I've got this good angel, bad angel on the shoulder type of thing. Bad angel saying: 'You're still a strong lad, you can carry this off. Pop a pill, have a quick drink. You'll dress up nice and neat.

"That's all very well for the first hour or hour and a half. But then ... "

He once went 14 months clean with the help of the late Dr Patrick Nugent and recalls those months as "the best time of my life". Yet, he is loath to use Patrick's death as any glib justification for his recidivism since.

"Look, I've been given every opportunity to make a decent life for myself," he says, intolerant of the very thought. "And, to be fair, I have found one or two people since Patrick died who have been a huge help."

His last spell in rehab ended the week before his annual golf tournament in aid of Cystic Fibrosis last July. He was professionally advised to give the occasion a wide berth but felt his obligations to the event were simply too personal to retreat from it. So he immediately immersed himself back in the organisation and, true to form, lapsed.

Without access to a car now, he has considered the idea of moving back to Dublin, though he has no intention of selling the house in Wexford. He will be at the Aviva for Friday night's European Championship qualifier with Russia and continues to get sporadic coaching work from the FAI.

"They have been brilliant to me," he says. "The girls in the FAI often ring asking if I need anything. John Delaney has been different class."

Yet, Paul knows the only help that -- ultimately -- saves an addict is self-help. "I hate spoofing to people," he acknowledges. "When you're an alcoholic and you wake up after one of these benders, especially when you've taken other stuff as well, you feel absolutely rotten.

"It's bad. But I've been doing it now for 20-odd years. I get out of bed in the morning and I walk like an old man. And I'm saying to myself: 'You're not strong enough to do this anymore.'"

I finish the interview with a simple question. Where does Paul McGrath see himself at 60?

"Well the Chelsea job should be opened up by then!" he smiles a little weakly. "Ah no, seriously, I want to see myself sitting on this couch with my granddaughter, watching TV. I'd love to be just someone who potters around his garden, goes for walks, plays a bit of golf, has a few friends.

"I suppose I'd just love to be around, to be here. That would be a God-send. To be still around and for all my kids to be healthy."


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/vincent-hogan/vincent-hogan-lsquoirsquom-trying-to-fight-a-winning-battle-but-irsquom-nearly-certain-irsquom-not-winningrsquo-2366495.html
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: TimTheVillain on October 06, 2010, 01:11:57 PM
What a read that is.

This stuck out for me 'Someone offers you 'a swift one' and, suddenly, you're in a group for the night.'

I wish that someone wouldn't, that would be a start ( another one) .

Humans can be so strong yet so frail, amazing really.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Olneythelonely on October 06, 2010, 01:14:55 PM
So, so sad.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Captain Trips on October 06, 2010, 01:21:48 PM
and our anthem to him is 'on the piss my lord' :(
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on October 06, 2010, 01:26:03 PM
and our anthem to him is 'on the piss my lord' :(

True. A song about one of the greatest players to wear the shirt and its about his serious illness.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Mac on October 06, 2010, 01:38:04 PM
and our anthem to him is 'on the piss my lord' :(

True. A song about one of the greatest players to wear the shirt and its about his serious illness.

It takes the piss that's for certain.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Dr Butler on October 06, 2010, 01:38:15 PM
and our anthem to him is 'on the piss my lord' :(

True. A song about one of the greatest players to wear the shirt and its about his serious illness.

well said you two.....

Good luck to Paul as it seems he may need it.  UTV
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: not3bad on October 06, 2010, 01:40:11 PM
and our anthem to him is 'on the piss my lord' :(

I'm never joining in that song again.  You can only take responsibility for your own conduct as far as this goes.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Olneythelonely on October 06, 2010, 01:52:13 PM
I've not sang that song for a while, since reading his book in fact.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: badluckeric(gates) on October 06, 2010, 02:27:22 PM
It'll never happen, but in my humble opinion. 'Paul McGrath my lord' over and over getting louder and louder is what I would like to hear.
A real tribute to the man.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on October 06, 2010, 02:39:14 PM
Never realised he was in such a tragic position. Think we have to give "on the piss my lord" a big miss and even replace it with something more fitting ........
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 06, 2010, 02:40:28 PM
He'll be dead before long.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: supertom on October 06, 2010, 02:42:42 PM
Good luck to him. He's got to sort himself out or he won't have long left. Arguably the best player to don our shirt. Legend.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: damon loves JT on October 06, 2010, 02:48:37 PM
The saddest part for me is how he views peoples' compassion. He doesn't understand it.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: fbriai on October 06, 2010, 02:55:03 PM
I just read that and think, 'come on Paul, we're all with you, mate'.

Poor bloke. I wish him all the best in the world.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Ger Regan on October 06, 2010, 03:00:24 PM
That article is fucking frightening, and should be read by anyone who thinks the chant is "just a bit of fun".
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: barrysleftfoot on October 06, 2010, 03:08:05 PM


  Have got a mate in exactly the same situation.No matter what you say/do it is themselves who have to sort them out.You can only stand by and offer support/help when they need it.

  It defies all logic that they put the bottle before everything, family/health/work, and is quite frankly very sad.Great Player, hopefully he is able to sort himself out.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: TheSandman on October 06, 2010, 03:30:44 PM
It's sad.

He knows it's wrong but he cannot stop himself. You have to feel for him in that.

Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: not3bad on October 06, 2010, 03:31:42 PM
That article is fucking frightening, and should be read by anyone who thinks the chant is "just a bit of fun".

This
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: regular_john on October 06, 2010, 03:33:12 PM
Someone should take him to a ward full of people dying from liver failure. I had the misfortune of seeing my aunt end up like that and it's enough to put you off alcohol for life.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Chris Harte on October 06, 2010, 03:35:40 PM
I've never joined in with that verse of that song because I always felt it was completely inappropriate given McGrath's situation.

It is at least a small positive that a few have read the article and vowed not to sing it in future.
He'll be dead before long.
I hope you're wrong, as I'm sure you do yourself. But I can't help thinking that there's only so much self-inflicted abuse a person can take.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: darren woolley on October 06, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
So sad i just hope and prey he finds the answere is not in a bottle and he sticks around for long long time.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on October 06, 2010, 03:48:00 PM
He was one of the best players EVER, He should be enjoying this time of his life.

Its terrible really.

Poor bloke
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 06, 2010, 03:48:47 PM
Can we do anything to stop singing that stupid song, or at the very least change the words? I cringe whenever I hear it. He seems such a top bloke. He's slipping down a wet slope and he can see the edge of the cliff. He's doing everything he can to stop himself from what would be a very sad ending. I'm sure he's been offered support over the years, but ultimately it will be down to him conquering his demons. Best of luck Paul.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: alanclare on October 06, 2010, 03:52:47 PM
I've not sang that song for a while, since reading his book in fact.
Same here. I almost feel ashamed, but, one has to make allowances. Those singing it have obviously never read the book.
This is great writing. Thank you for giving it to us, Dave.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Rich6by7 on October 06, 2010, 03:55:41 PM
Hopefully a few more of our less intelligent supporters will read this and think twice before joining in with "on the piss milord".
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Concrete John on October 06, 2010, 04:01:57 PM
It's strange, that in a period where so many top level footballers are rightly being dragged through the mud, here we have my first footballing hero an alcoholic.  If a modern player had the same issues, whether Villa or not, would we be as sympathetic?  No, because they'd be taking out court injunctions and have their agents trying to blame everyone else.

It's a testiment to the man's humility that he acknowledges his short comings and works to overcome them.  He's no longer my footballing hero - just a hero full stop!
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on October 06, 2010, 04:21:29 PM
Hopefully a few more of our less intelligent supporters will read this and think twice before joining in with "on the piss milord".

I wouldn't hold your breath mate.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Simon Ward on October 06, 2010, 04:39:22 PM
His autobiography stands out as one of the best sports related books of all time, as he stood out as one of the best centre backs of all time so to hear he still can't fight the booze is very sad indeed.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: villa1 on October 06, 2010, 05:33:29 PM
Legend.

Best player i've seen in our colours.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: villajk on October 06, 2010, 05:51:42 PM
What a very sad read.

I sincerely hope Paul manages to sort himself out but after so many attempts I don't hold out much hope.

Good Luck Paul.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: rjp on October 06, 2010, 06:12:32 PM
You can pick up his book for about £7 now.  Having got it about 9 months ago I can definitely recommend it to anyone who hasn't read it.  It's a really interesting read and there's a fair bit of Villa in it too.

I also hate that song other than the first original verse, I just refuse to join in on the rest.  As someone once said to me 'you can't control the actions of other people, you can only set a good example for them to follow'.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Clampy on October 06, 2010, 06:44:08 PM
A sad read. Anyone who has also read the book will probably wonder how's he's still alive today. I hope he pulls himself through it.

As for the song, i honestly don't think it ever set out to offend. I think it started out with the good intention of honouring him, but like it's been suggested, changing the words is probably now appropriate.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: hipkiss92 on October 06, 2010, 06:47:32 PM
what about 'off the piss my lord'?
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 06, 2010, 06:52:30 PM
I may well be in a minority of one, but having grown up in the environment of an alcoholic, I have zero sympathy for him, but plenty for his family and the effect his lifestyle choice will have had on their lives.

Just because he was the best player i've ever seen wear a Villa shirt, won't suddenly make me change my views on alcoholism.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: KevinGage on October 06, 2010, 07:30:33 PM
The song has it's origins in those early periods in 1994 when he went 'missing.'

Supporters of other clubs might have given a player who walked out on his club and abandoned his duties merciless abuse, but Paul was always held in high regard and will probably be the best player many Villa fans see wearing C&B in their lifetime.

I'm pretty certain the 'on the piss' reference is as much to do with the state of those singing it as it is McGrath but I would have hoped that the song had died a natural death at this stage. It's dull and the 'empty seats' part in particular leaves us wide open to ridicule from other clubs.

Any internet moral minority attempt to outlaw it will most likely fail, but I wonder if those who sing it would still feel comfortable doing so were he to pass away.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: garyshawsknee on October 06, 2010, 07:55:59 PM
My thoughts on the song changed after I read the book,I didn't realise what a struggle is life has been and still is. I think we should just sing 'Paul McGrath my lord',as he was and still is the best player who has played for us in my lifetime.

 After he's book was released you kinda hope it helped him with his inner demons,but unfortunately it seems like it hasn't. I hope to God that we dont all wake to read a terrible newspaper headline about his demise.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 06, 2010, 08:05:47 PM
Such a shame, good luck to him.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Matt C on October 06, 2010, 09:06:30 PM
Didn't want to read that.

Come on Paul.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on October 06, 2010, 09:12:58 PM
Paul McGrath is my footballing hero. I'm honoured to have met on a couple of occassions. I hope he can get through this time of his life for his and his familes sake who have also suffered.
Sadly I fear that won't happen as the bottle means more to him. Tragic.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 06, 2010, 09:24:27 PM
Very worrying. Good luck Paul.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: not3bad on October 06, 2010, 09:39:43 PM
I may well be in a minority of one, but having grown up in the environment of an alcoholic, I have zero sympathy for him, but plenty for his family and the effect his lifestyle choice will have had on their lives.

I also grew up in this environment and yet I do have sympathy.  *shrug*
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Lizz on October 06, 2010, 09:42:15 PM
Someone should take him to a ward full of people dying from liver failure. I had the misfortune of seeing my aunt end up like that and it's enough to put you off alcohol for life.

I don't believe addiction can be cured that easily, unfortunately. If it could, it would.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: regular_john on October 06, 2010, 09:48:55 PM
Keep in mind, addiction of any form is often the symptom of a much deeper problem. Nobody goes out and consciously aims to become an alcoholic, it happens as a result of some other issue.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Quiet Lion on October 06, 2010, 09:54:52 PM
That was hard to read.

His autobiography paints a picture of a tragic man and he hasn't got a hold of the illness since then. I really wish him all the best

Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: eamonn on October 06, 2010, 10:07:22 PM
Keep in mind, addiction of any form is often the symptom of a much deeper problem. Nobody goes out and consciously aims to become an alcoholic, it happens as a result of some other issue.

He´s crippled by a shyness which I guess manifested itself originally when he was growing up as a black kid in a Dublin orphanage. Haven´t read the book since it came out but I´m sure there´s more on it in there.

I hope the launch of his video goes better than his role as guest-speaker at a fundraiser for my local team when his book came out. Walked up to the mic halfway through the night, apologising and crying for being pissed and not able to carry out the job. It was tragic and very upsetting. The local team went to the wall two months later, and looking at the tears in the chairman´s eyes that night I think he knew what was coming.

I was at the airport this afternoon and bought The Irish Independent just for this article, wouldn´t normally touch the rag.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: villan1975 on October 06, 2010, 10:18:58 PM
Absolute legend,best player i have ever seen in the flesh.Would love nothing more than to see him clean sober and back at villa park introduced to the fans before a game.Hope he keeps on fightin.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: ROBBO on October 06, 2010, 11:11:05 PM
There's a guy at my golf club who has been clean for twenty years he says he cannot remember his kids growing up, he has taken a couple of young guys who were giving all the signs of heading the same way and explained to them what their life could become, they both no longer drink alcahol.
It is an addiction a terrible addiction and those of us that can have a few drinks and walk away will never completely understand  it. The guy at the golf club took took thirty years to stop lets hope Paul will find it's never too late.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Lizz on October 06, 2010, 11:33:13 PM
There's a guy at my golf club who has been clean for twenty years he says he cannot remember his kids growing up, he has taken a couple of young guys who were giving all the signs of heading the same way and explained to them what their life could become, they both no longer drink alcahol.
It is an addiction a terrible addiction and those of us that can have a few drinks and walk away will never completely understand  it. The guy at the golf club took took thirty years to stop lets hope Paul will find it's never too late.

It's good those young guys have given up alcohol as they've been made aware of the pitfalls and they were on the verge of probably becoming alcoholics. One of the difficulties with dealing with addictions is assuming there's a one size fits all solution. I'm the kind of person that if there's a sign telling me to keep off the grass, my initial reaction is why, even if I recognise I should.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Rich6by7 on October 07, 2010, 12:26:28 AM
Hopefully a few more of our less intelligent supporters will read this and think twice before joining in with "on the piss milord".

I wouldn't hold your breath mate.

I'm not holding my breath sadly. I imagine that'll be the soundtrack of the Holte for a while yet.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Dazvillain on October 07, 2010, 12:55:41 AM
So upsetting....nothing more than "Paul McGrath my lord, Paul McGrath" from me for certain. He deserves that at least
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: peter w on October 07, 2010, 10:06:14 AM
Well if people don't join in with the other verses then it will die its own death. There are a few yoot on here that do sing the song and if they want to be dicks then they will never get what Paul McGrath meant to us as a player, and means to us as an actual all time Villa legend. Quite simply, without any equals - our best player.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Irish villain on October 07, 2010, 10:52:14 AM
That was painful reading. Having read is book a couple of years ago I felt certain he would overcome is troubles. It's very sad to see that he hasn't and I really hope he comes out on top soon.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: ianburnip on October 07, 2010, 12:10:32 PM
Ditto all the "on the piss" related comments. The chant is a disgrace and I haven't ever sung it in full. I'll sing the first bit, and maybe any other humorous bits toward the end, but the whole middle bit about one of our legends being an alcoholic? No, I don't think so.

Would, however much I hate them, Man U fans sing about Best being a train-wreck? I think not.

Time for us to stop this abomination of a chant.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: jonzy85 on October 07, 2010, 01:02:12 PM
The quote from his neighbour "You used to be my hero" really resonates.

I had a run in with Paul about a month ago in Dublin. Was out for dinner with a girl and this guy comes out of the toilet making a scene and made his way over to our table. It then dawned on me who it was.

I was literally sitting there mouth open, not knowing what to do. I was somewhere between getting up telling him how much of legend he is and telling to piss off away from our table and stop hassling us. Girl I was with was completely bemused by both him and me...she didnt realise who it was!

The staff in the restaurant were really god with him in fairness, just trying to usher him out quietly. If it was anyone else the Gardai would have been called.

I have, like many, read his autobiography and found it quite moving but when you someone like that fallen so hard right in front of you it really puts it into focus. I only told a few family and friends about it at the time, but having read that interview, I suppose the cat is out of the bag again, if it ever was back in. I have to say that what could have been viewed as funny story about my date being ruined, anyone i talked to about it found it incredibly sad.

Think it shows how loved he is by so many people, particularly in Ireland and amongst Villa fans of course that it almost feels like a family member that has fallen so hard.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: peter w on October 07, 2010, 01:21:00 PM
Maybe what he needs is to really feel like he's hit rock-bottom. That he isn't given the 'love' that he is shown. Maybe then he'll realise that he has no-one and nowhere to turn to. Maybe that will be what is needed to get him doing it for himself, at the moment too many people are there to help catch when he falls every time.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Small Rodent on October 07, 2010, 01:52:46 PM

I'm pretty certain the 'on the piss' reference is as much to do with the state of those singing it as it is McGrath but I would have hoped that the song had died a natural death at this stage. It's dull and the 'empty seats' part in particular leaves us wide open to ridicule from other clubs.



Yeah, it's quite possible the song could've morphed over the years to "on the piss", meaning us, the fans.  After all, "Istanbul" and "Empty seats" have no relevance to Paul McGrath.

Or maybe I'm being too generous.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Irish villain on October 07, 2010, 03:05:49 PM
I've heard a few stories like that Jonzy. Very sad.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: lordmcgrath5 on October 07, 2010, 04:52:45 PM
Like the book as a whole, a very sad and moving article.

It's tragic that Paul's still battling his demons, I keep hoping I'll see an article saying how he's coping well and staying off the drink. When the book came out, he seemed to be going through a good spell - probably the one referred to in the article - and you got the feeling that he might get his life under control in the long term.

Good luck Paul, you'll always be a legend to me.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 07, 2010, 05:33:36 PM
Reading about the case it seems anyone else but Paul McGrath would have been castigated, and very likely imprisoned, for what he did. Maybe there are too many people always prepared to forgive him because of who he is, and maybe - I don't know - it might be for the best if, one day, someone did prosecute.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: ROBBO on October 07, 2010, 10:12:11 PM
I t may be coincidental but his dry period came when he was focused on writing the book and then was kept busy on the media circuit. He really needs to be doing something that gives him very little idle time, i know when i'm bored i eat and stack on weight and losing it is a trial, not in the same category i know but he does seem to be lost.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: petegoldring on October 08, 2010, 07:15:43 AM
So sad to read. Paul Mcgrath is one of the finest footballers ever to pull on the shirt in my lifetime. Never forget him running 50 yards to make a fair tackle on Cantona and still being able to kick him 6 feet in the air!!

Absolute legend. No matter what happens he will always be the best centreback, perhaps footballer, I have ever seen in a Villa shirt - I hope he can overcome and be happy.

Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: JD on October 08, 2010, 08:20:50 AM
It is so sad. The guy is only a few years older than me and I used to stand in The Holte and be in awe of his ability. To think that I am still very fit and he is going through such a traumatic time really hits the heart strings with me. A better defender I will never see in my lifetime.
Please Paul, sort yourself out and get better.   
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Lucky Eddie on October 08, 2010, 05:16:25 PM
The staff in the restaurant were really god with him in fairness

correct
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: eamonn on October 10, 2010, 07:16:01 PM
Interview with Paul on Irish radio the other day:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/1009/mcgrathp_av.html
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on October 11, 2010, 04:37:59 PM
if every one know he had a problem with drink, they shouldn't give him free drinks.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Martyn Smith on October 11, 2010, 05:13:36 PM
Every story I've heard about Paul McG tells to me of a man suffering from chronically low self-esteem. This is not the same as self-confidence which can go up and down in days according to how life's treating you. It's much more deep set than that and is all about your overall self-image.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Ger Regan on October 11, 2010, 06:44:48 PM
Every story I've heard about Paul McG tells to me of a man suffering from chronically low self-esteem. This is not the same as self-confidence which can go up and down in days according to how life's treating you. It's much more deep set than that and is all about your overall self-image.
That's the crux of it I think, until he sorts out that issue it's going to be very difficult for him to give up drink.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: TimTheVillain on October 11, 2010, 06:57:36 PM
He should be involved in football, day to day, that would give him something to get his mind right.

Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: mcgrath_85 on October 11, 2010, 07:48:43 PM
I found this rather upsetting to read.

Thanks nonetheless for posting this though Dave.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Legion on October 18, 2010, 08:22:07 PM
The battle continues (http://www.tribune.ie/magazine/article/2010/oct/17/im-just-wasting-away-at-the-moment-and-its-not-a-g/)

Quote
I'm just wasting away at the moment and it's not a good place to be'
His battles with his demons, from which he seeks refuge in alcohol, are well-documented and now a new documentary on Paul McGrath's life reveals the unhappy childhood that produced the tortured man

'Suddenly I was accepted. It was like a lightning bolt going off,' says McGrath

Paul McGrath is about to be snapped for the photographs on these pages when, all of a sudden, he literally runs out of the picture. It's nothing to worry about with him though. Instead, he's worrying about someone else. There's a particularly steep patch of grass nearby and a woman is having a bit of trouble pushing another elderly lady in a wheelchair up it. McGrath rushes over to stop her from toppling over. Chivalry personified, he makes sure both are okay before getting back to the business at hand. Afterwards, the younger woman goes into the local hotel in Arklow to ask staff if McGrath is still around so she can thank him again. When informed he has left, she politely enquires what he was doing there and how he was doing.

It's an exchange that confirms a lot of expectations – and, perhaps, clichés – about McGrath. When his name is mentioned, you usually hear some variation of the refrain "lovely lad, but a lot of demons". And, straight off, here he was displaying the kind of decency that means people continue to retain this genuine concern for him. No matter how often he slips, many know what he's really like.

It's why he's not in prison at the moment. Back in April, another night lost to alcohol almost cost him a lot more. An inebriated McGrath struck a neighbour who offered him a lift. Conscious of his situation, however, the individual refused to press charges for assault. "The man has problems. He did not know what he was doing."

In light of recent media coverage, someone close to McGrath contacted the Sunday Tribune ahead of an interview about the new documentary and DVD Paul McGrath – My Life & Football. There was a plea for tact as to how questions are phrased. When such requests are usually made, it's to protect the interviewee's vanity. With McGrath though, it's to protect him from himself. Given the recent controversy, there was a fear any questions that increase his anxiety will – again – cause him to reach for the bottle to battle his nerves.

Such warnings, however, mean that you also expect someone fragile and almost under siege. Instead, you meet a McGrath that appears at ease, genuinely interested in how you got here and grateful for it. When offered a flick-through of the photos taken, he chuckles "ah you had a good subject, good-looking fella". He also insists, "I'm in great form at the minute and obviously with the documentary coming out that's a big thing for me".

McGrath admits elsewhere, however, that "most people would look at me with the suit on and be thinking: 'he's not doing too bad'" when, underneath, he's already accepted another regression is around the corner. As a line in the documentary revealed, McGrath has been in and out of rehab "13 or 14 times".

He understands if people are losing patience. But there's a reason many aren't. A few choice lines from the DVD and his autobiography help explain the roots – if not quite the complexities – of why he continues to use alcohol as a crutch.

Growing up in the Bird's Nest orphanage: "Generally you were made to feel odd and unloved. There was a routine comment made in moments of temper that you were 'only here because nobody else wants you'... You were constantly being put down, kept in your place as you saw it. You were made to feel small."

McGrath grew up without any of the comfort or consolation that breeds confidence. As the veteran journalist Peter Byrne says on the DVD, "Paul was accustomed to a climate of subordination by the time he emerged from the institution at 16 and, added to that of course, he was black. The combination of those two things meant he didn't impose himself as perhaps others would have done."

Given that background, his former boss Graham Taylor acknowledged: "It's alright saying to someone they shouldn't be doing this but I think I'd be drinking too if I'd been through what Paul's been through."

And McGrath explained exactly why. "I needed something to subdue the [negative] voice in my head... so drink was quite a discovery. I felt something profound happen... I began to feel invincible."

The new documentary does a fine job of condensing the content of the best-selling purge that was his biography Back from the Brink. It also updates his story. Many of those interviewed, such as Jack Charlton and Kevin Moran, speak with hope, but also blunt honesty. That, on an underlying level, he's still essentially in denial about his problems.

That comes across to a certain extent when he speaks in Arklow. When alcohol is mentioned, it is usually accompanied by a chuckle. It's almost as if he's trying to show he's now so conscious of the problem that he can make light of it, but doesn't quite convince.

When he talks about the demands of the modern game: "The diets are much better and I wouldn't say they're allowed drink as much as we did!"

When he talks about how Alex Ferguson forced himself and Norman Whiteside out of Manchester United: "We matured a little bit [after we left] and then regressed a bit after football."

Most poignant, however, is perhaps a line he says off-hand and in jest before the interview properly starts. When it's mentioned to McGrath that this summer was the 20th anniversary of Italia '90 he laughs and says: "Yeah, I think they had a do for it. I obviously wasn't invited."

Over the interview, McGrath does talk about the great days as well as football in general enthusiastically and at length. Even those stories, however, reveal a little more of the doubts that constantly cause him to regress. The documentary shows a lot of footage from Ireland's most iconic matches and he's asked how he feels when he watches them.

"I look at the mistakes I made on the day sometimes."

With anyone else you'd wave it away as the perfectionism of a former pro. With McGrath, though, it is hard to escape the assumption that it's something else. His circumstances, after all, even affected how he celebrated his favourite day in an Irish shirt, the 1-0 victory over Italy in USA '94. McGrath sat alone on the team coach while the rest of the squad got off to greet the fans at an FAI party.

"I did feel detached because I had my instructions about what I was allowed to do. But I was sitting on the coach looking out and all the Irish people were dancing all over the place and I really just sat there."

On that day, Ireland were facing one of the most famous defences in the history of football. Yet it was McGrath that gave a master-class in defending. Some of the Italians respected him for it. Others didn't.

"[Franco] Baresi was a hero of mine so, obviously, I was walking over to shake hands but he didn't really want to be connected with us. [Paolo] Maldini, I thought, was such a gentleman. He was picking me off the ground, saying "good header". That's a sportsman. I would have thought Baresi was similar but he was having none of it, strolling down the tunnel with steam coming out of his ears. It was disappointing because I've always thought even when you lose you've got to show some kind of sportsmanship. There's a graciousness and it's what kids need to see."

McGrath illustrates it himself when talking about the infamous 0-0 draw with Egypt during the 1990 World Cup.

"I thought they deserved credit. They way they defended, the No 4 [Hany Ramzy] was unbelievable. You see a defender having a magnificent game and you wish it was you. I went up to him and said 'unbelievable, great game' but people don't think you should do that just because of who they were."

Ireland would overcome that to meet Romania in the second round. But McGrath wouldn't be participating in the penalty shoot-out.

"I don't think Jack asked me. I just wasn't going to take a penalty. Definitely was not going to take a penalty. That's when I would have remembered there was a crowd. I wouldn't have had that on my shoulders. I bottled it really... I've missed penalties before and I knew I wasn't going to be one of the ones."

Throughout all his comments, there's a sense McGrath never quite realised how good he was. That's what Moran argues on the documentary. And McGrath is always very quick to deflect any kind of compliment. Commonly seen as one of Irish football's four "immortals" along with his "good friend" Roy Keane, Johnny Giles and Liam Brady, an old line from the latter is put to him.

Brady told this newspaper a few years ago that "I was good and I knew I was good... had the whole thing mapped out in my head. I'd be in the first team at Arsenal when I was 18 and then I'd play for Ireland."

McGrath's eyes widen when asked if he ever felt the same.

"Well I suppose I knew I could play. But I looked at the Irish team and it had four of the best centre-halves in Europe. I thought I wouldn't get a game because how are you going to say to Mark Lawrenson or Kevin Moran or Mick McCarthy 'I'm taking you out to put Paul McGrath in'. So I had all those kind of negative things going on in my mind that I won't be getting a chance."

Nevertheless, McGrath realised he had enough talent as a youth to earn respect in school. "The change was unbelievable. I was no longer 'nigger', I was Paul... suddenly I was accepted. It was like a lightning bolt going off."

The pitch would provide an escape throughout his career. Many of Ireland's Italia '90 squad have said the only drawback to the event was the boredom over six long weeks. Not McGrath.

"I loved every minute of it. I was off the drinking and actually put everything into it. I just went in thinking 'I am on form, I am on form'. Now I didn't play up to standard as I did in training, but that was as fit as I'd been playing football ever. It was brilliant."

Given the difficult readjustment even the most settled pros endure when they retire, that emptiness is undoubtedly a factor in McGrath's issues. Part of the problem has been filling his days. "I feel like I'm doing nothing now," he says sadly on the DVD. "I'm just wasting away at the moment and it's not a good place to be. And part of the reason I'm wasting away is obviously because I've got one or two things hanging over my head."

Doing the documentary has at least kept him on track. "I'm looking forward to trying to do as much as I can with that and I'm hoping people enjoy it. I do like having banter with people.

"I'd love to be able to give something back because I don't think I give enough back now. I go down to Wexford, close the gates and keep myself to myself. I'm very much a loner. But then it's lovely when I get out and do meet people. It would be lovely to give something back to some club.

"Even if it's just training the kids for one night or helping out in any way. Hopefully that's on the cards in the future."

This weekend he'll be kept company by his son and new granddaughter. The epiphany at one of his most recent spells at rehab, however, was that he has a "social phobia" as well as an alcohol addiction. In an odd way then, does the goodwill of so many people actually have an adverse affect?

"I do love the attention. It depends where I am though. I love talking to people one-on-one or if somebody stops you in a shopping centre and just has a little chat with you. I love all that sort of stuff but I find it hard to accept the praise if it's coming in a certain way.

"Like, if I get to 60 and someone's standing on a podium ready to give me whatever accolade, I'd hate walking up the steps to collect a prize or anything like that.

"I'd rather shake someone's hand on the street."

October 17, 2010
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: KevinGage on October 18, 2010, 09:23:27 PM
Hope he gets something out of this latest project, aside from just a payday obv.

There is a danger of overkill though, I think most of us have heard more about Paul's problems at this stage than we have those in our own extended family.

I prefer to dwell on his career, and performances like  this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQqVsD_eK-4)

A 60% fit Paul McGrath up against an Italian side containing the bulk of the legendary AC Milan squad who'd hammered Barcelona 4-0 in the EC final a few weeks earlier. And Baggio.

And McGrath was the best player on the pitch.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: BC54 VFC on October 18, 2010, 09:52:54 PM
Thanks for posting that, KG, watching it has brought tears to my eyes.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: eamonn on October 18, 2010, 10:27:23 PM
He needs to keep busy but he's not a reliable person - even the stuff with loose enough commitments, the odd bit of punditry for RTE, a director of football or some equally (un)important role invented for him at Waterford United etc. always ends in a farce when he's too drunk to turn up.
 
Dying a lonely man still haunted by demons seems to have been his obituary-in-waiting for a long time. I doubt if doing this DVD will change much for the better, more likely it will be something like becoming a grandad recently. As clichéd as it sounds I think everyone just hopes he'll permanently find some peace of mind one day.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: Martyn Smith on October 19, 2010, 12:33:47 PM
My abiding memory of Paul McG was his sheer unerring ability to be in the right place at the right time. I pointed this out to my dad; he said that in 40 years of going down the Villa he'd never known a player who *read* the game as well as he did.
Title: Re: The Battle Goes on For Paul McGrath
Post by: brian green on October 19, 2010, 04:09:48 PM
The single coldest, bleakest most frightening thing I have ever read about this giant of a football player was when Paul was asked why he drinks.   He replied "for the oblivion".
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