Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: olaftab on October 03, 2010, 02:01:34 PM
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We have had 3 home matches in the PL this season and the best we have done is 36K v West Ham. 34K for the other two games. Now the Club has had to resort to a 5 match deal to achieve maximum sell.
Whilst all marketting initiatives should be applauded it is worrying that we are not able to sell out Chelsea, Blues, Man u and Arsenal without resorting to some discount.
Now there are two reasons that usually impact on attendance. The success on the pitch and local economics. Both of these reasons apply at the moment.
In view of that do we need to be more realistic with our ambition especially with the desire to expand capacity of the stadium?
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Aren't they bundling the attractive fixtures (Chelsea, MU, Arse) with the less so ones to up the attendance of the lesser ones rather than because they're struggling on the attractive ones?
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Just about every club is noticing a drop in attendances this season. I'm sure I read that even man ure struggled to sell all their season tickets this year.
Regarding increasing capacity, it's something that needs to be done so hopefully the board look at things in the long run, rather than short term.
As for ambition, my ambition for Villa is the same every season (expectations are a different matter) so why should I ever change it? And I would hope that the board never lowers its ambitions.
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Regarding increasing capacity, it's something that needs to be done so hopefully the board look at things in the long run, rather than short term.
i imagine the urgency will rest with the 2018 world cup announcement in december.
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The economy is definitely a factor - for example i have been out of work for 10 months out of the last 18 and have settled for a job on a 25% pay cut - some things have to give - more recently i chose not to come to the Bolton game (despite being a season ticket holder) to save on travel costs etc - I could not even give my two tickets away for the game!
Fortunately for me I am now earning again but I doubt if I will be paying out for away games and cup games in the foreseeable future as important as Villa are in my life they ain`t above family etc.
It is however galling to see all these special offers when I committed to my ticket before the end of the preceding season.
I am sure the club will recognise this if we get to Wembley twice again this season (or maybe 3 times) ;)
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Just over 23k at the Sty yesterday and that's with Everton selling their lot.
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Watching MOTD last night, I noticed an alarming amount of empty seats at most of the games shown. It simply costs too much money. I went to Spurs yesterday, but I only go to a handful of away games now as I cannot justify the amount that needs to be forked out on tickets, travel, food, etc.
As for 'special offers', they are necessary and have been around for a few years now. I wouldn't begrudge anyone getting a good deal on tickets, even though I'm a ST holder and probably always will be as long as I have a steady income.
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As Pete says above you only have to watch MOTD last night to see the trend of declining attendances is by no means exclusive to Villa. Times are tough, people are cutting back on luxuries and non-essentials.
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You think it's bad in the Premier League check out the some of the games in the Championship !
Times are tough but also the increase in player's wages has pushed up prices and they have reached their breaking point IMO.Success on the pitch I don't think will change thing's people simply can not afford to go to games these day's.The amount of games on TV and the ability to get streams on most games hasn't helped.
Something need's to be done as seeing games with row's and row's of empty seat's doesn't reflect well on anyone.
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Aren't they bundling the attractive fixtures (Chelsea, MU, Arse) with the less so ones to up the attendance of the lesser ones rather than because they're struggling on the attractive ones?
The problem is this 5 match offer is Chelsea, Blues, Blackpool, Manu and Arsenal. So we are bundling 4 games that in previous seasons were gauranteed sell outs with 1 , Blackpool, weak attendance game.
Just about every club is noticing a drop in attendances this season. I'm sure I read that even man ure struggled to sell all their season tickets this year.
As for ambition, my ambition for Villa is the same every season (expectations are a different matter) so why should I ever change it? And I would hope that the board never lowers its ambitions.
I agree that most teams are suffering and as others pointed out I also noted an almost empty upper tier in the main stand at WH Lane.
My ambition comment was about capacity not aims for the team on the pitch.
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It costs too much money- simple as that. It's not in the clubs' interests to reduce wages as they'll lose out to nouveau riche clubs like Chelsea and Manchester City in the transfer market, so we have a situation where the ordinary supporter is priced out of the game.
I'm presently studying at university in Brum for the second time- the first time didn't work out- and looking back at match tickets I bought from the first time around (1996-9) you can see the disproportionate rise in prices that mean the club has to come up with discounts to get bums on seats. I've been twice on special offers this season (Bolton on a £5 local resident deal, Blackburn on a £10 student deal), but I wouldn't have gone paying full price. The last time I paid the going rate was Wolves last season, costing £36 for a seat in the corner of the lower Holte End. Rewind to January 1997, I attended a Cup replay against Notts County for £13 in the same section. A threefold price increase in thirteen years? Have other entertainment products gone up that much? Gig or theatre tickets? Cinemas? Other sports? You can point to the fact that one of those matches was a league fixture and a local derby to boot versus a cup replay against lower league opposition, but in 1995 my Holte upper ticket v Coventry (the Savo hat trick game), the most local team we faced in the league at the time, also cost £13.
The fact remains that football investment has overtaken the ability of many of its investors (ie you and me, the ticket-buying fans) to make that investment, and unless we want to see increasingly empty stadia up and down the country, we'll keep seeing reduced ticket deals. Good for supporters like me who can't afford the financial investment for a season ticket (nor can I afford the time to go to each match), but a sure sign that football is a cash rich, integrity low business at the moment.
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You think it's bad in the Premier League check out the some of the games in the Championship !
I notice Middlesbrough seem to get picked on quite a lot on TV about their poor attendances. These clever commentators and pundits don't seem to be able to grasp that people are losing jobs and in that poor economic area, people have more urgent things to spend money on than football.
Football is just too expensive now so credit to all those at the Villa for trying anything they can with these offers to bump up the crowds.
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Walsall are struggling to get much more than 3000 at home. Bad times for the Saddlers ahead if this continues I fear.
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Football is far to expensive throughout the leagues in this country. My nephew got his ticket for the blues game yesterday £37 i'm sorry but that is far too expensive. I only go to the home games I couldn't afford paying what it would cost to go to away games as well.
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As a season ticket holder that tried to support the club before the season kicked off i'm also thinking of my own financial position. At present I would have been better off buying cheap seats per match rather than fork out the lump sum at the start.
If it continues I won't invest in the summer next year.
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It will as continue after xmas as if you look at the fixtures, the club will not sell too many half season tickets
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Everybody's having to make cutbacks myself included so i think these cheap ticket deals are welcomed so people can still see there team without being left out.
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These offers may well reduce the value of having a season ticket but it's worth bearing in mind that it's still cheaper than buying individual tickets and there are other benefits like priority in cup/away games.
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Aren't they bundling the attractive fixtures (Chelsea, MU, Arse) with the less so ones to up the attendance of the lesser ones rather than because they're struggling on the attractive ones?
The problem is this 5 match offer is Chelsea, Blues, Blackpool, Manu and Arsenal. So we are bundling 4 games that in previous seasons were gauranteed sell outs with 1 , Blackpool, weak attendance game.
Just about every club is noticing a drop in attendances this season. I'm sure I read that even man ure struggled to sell all their season tickets this year.
As for ambition, my ambition for Villa is the same every season (expectations are a different matter) so why should I ever change it? And I would hope that the board never lowers its ambitions.
I agree that most teams are suffering and as others pointed out I also noted an almost empty upper tier in the main stand at WH Lane.
My ambition comment was about capacity not aims for the team on the pitch.
My ambition comment encompassed all areas.
The current financial climate won't last forever, should we break into the "Sky 4/5/6/" and be challenging top 4, we would benefit from an increased capacity.
My long term ambitions are that we try and break into the top 4 on a regular basis and start challenging regularly for trophies as well as, obviously, competing in the CL.
I would very much hope the board have the same ambitions, of which an increased capacity would be an integral part.
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One thing that does annoy me, we often seem to be picked out by the media regarding attendances, but they rarely make a similar comment about their favourites.
Not too many mentions of where some of the die hard, never miss a match since they were an embryo, most loyal fans in the world (car)Toon Army have vanished too. Or the fact only 18K dippers could be bothered to watch their game against Northampton.
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Along with a recession, I'm convinced part of the problem is that people are catching on to the fact that the playing field gets ever more uneven year on year. Look at the 'top 4' tonight. Liverpool are skint and look at where they are (aren't?). Success is now utterly determined by who owns your club. So, pick you games, support your club as best you can. But unless you support Man City, Manu Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal chances are you will not win anything this season and the odds are getting longer every year. Not exactly the most enticing for the floating majority.
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End of the day the matchday prices have been pitched too high this year.
The club has I think approx. 25k season ticket holders? So with 3 away fans that leaves almost 15k tickets to sell for fans on a match by match basis.
Now it seems to me we have a lot of Category AA games coming up.
That means a ticket for the upper Witton and Upper trinity is I think 43 quid and in the Holte it's 36 quid.
Given you can sit in the north stand for 25 or 30 quid then I really don't see the motivation to spend an extra tenner elsewhere.
And that's just for one individual for just the match ticket without taking into account getting to and from the game, food etc. It's just too expensive.
I took up the 5 game multipackage deal as it saves me 43 quid so it had to be done really.
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End of the day the matchday prices have been pitched too high this year.
The club has I think approx. 25k season ticket holders? So with 3 away fans that leaves almost 15k tickets to sell for fans on a match by match basis.
Now it seems to me we have a lot of Category AA games coming up.
That means a ticket for the upper Witton and Upper trinity is I think 43 quid and in the Holte it's 36 quid.
Given you can sit in the north stand for 25 or 30 quid then I really don't see the motivation to spend an extra tenner elsewhere.
And that's just for one individual for just the match ticket without taking into account getting to and from the game, food etc. It's just too expensive.
I took up the 5 game multipackage deal as it saves me 43 quid so it had to be done really.
You can understand the reasons why the match day price is so high when you're playing the likes of Heskey, Sidwell, Davies, and Carew around £180,000 per week.
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How much of the turnstyle money really goes on the wages though when all the clubs get untold millions from the domestic and overseas tv deals for a start?
Was looking at an old programme from the 2004-05 the other day and flicked to the ticket section. Think the dearest ticket in Villa Park that season was at 26 quid so it's risen nearly 20 quid in 5 years.
We've improved a bit in that period but I wouldn't say the quality of football generally has by that much.
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As a slight aside, i've heard more than one whisper of quite a few "big" clubs inflating attendance figures on more than one occasion.
Still, makes a change from the 70s and 80s practice of those funny turnstiles that took money but didn't record people actually record anyone entering the ground. They even used to do that down the Rovers, to such a degree, I was at one midweek cup match and when the official crowd was announced, everyone burst out laughing it was so low compared to the amount in the ground.
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The Rovers? Who do that be - Bromsgrove, Melchester?
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The Rovers? Who do that be - Bromsgrove, Melchester?
Bromsgrove.
It was mid 80s, I think, either an FAC or FAT replay against Barnet or Newcastle Blue Star (my memory is so good on some things!) and as we went whenever Villa weren't playing/couldn't afford the Villa, we could tell what the crowd was. The general consensus was about 1200, the "official" gate was about 500. Even the away fans were laughing.
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I wonder how much clubs are bothered about matchday attendances now, with the amount of TV money they get.
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I wonder how much clubs are bothered about matchday attendances now, with the amount of TV money they get.
I would have thought most clubs are still bothered. I doubt gate money matters in the slightest at man city, but if you take a 40,000 gate at say, £30 a head on average, I can't see any other club not being interested in £1.2mill 19+ times a season.
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I wonder how much clubs are bothered about matchday attendances now, with the amount of TV money they get.
I would have thought most clubs are still bothered. I doubt gate money matters in the slightest at man city, but if you take a 40,000 gate at say, £30 a head on average, I can't see any other club not being interested in £1.2mill 19+ times a season.
You're not looking at the total but the difference between a good gate and a bad one. The money does add up, but I wonder how many clubs think it doesn't really matter.
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It looks bad on telly though those empty seats so surely the TV paymasters at some point will want that addressing?
Seeng how much prices have gone up in just 5/6 years makes me sick.
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It looks bad on telly though those empty seats so surely the TV paymasters at some point will want that addressing?
Seeng how much prices have gone up in just 5/6 years makes me sick.
Agree on both points.
Football in Britain is far too expensive for a product that lacks the excitement which a more level playing field could provide. Anyone seen the Bundesliga table at the moment? Mainz top of the league, Bayern half way, Schalke one from bottom. OK, Liverpool's position is comparable to Schalke's, but otherwise the two leagues are like chalk and cheese in terms of opportunity and excitement, and have been for a few years now.
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Here's something I read earlier:
Against Mod£rn Football - "A Complaint Against Premier League Ticket Prices
I come from the generation of fans who have crossed over from the days of the old Football League with its terraces and poor conditions to today's media darling that is the Premier League with its modern stadia.
In 1986 I bought my first season ticket. It was an adult ticket for the old standing Kop. It cost me £45. In the preceding 1985/6 season Kop matches cost adults £2.50 each, the Main Stand wing section cost £3.50 and the Kemlyn Road cost £5.00 per match.
This summer I've paid the online discount price of £680 for a seat in the place I used to stand. This season sees face value tickets at Anfield now costing up to £45 each for 'category A' matches, the same price as the entire cost of my season ticket 25 seasons ago... and we're not even the dearest team in the League to watch!
Enough is enough, its time to stop this disgraceful exploitation of the fans, in truth it has been time to do something about this for years. It's the great unsaid about our national sport while the media hype surrounding the game convinces most people about how lucky we are to have "the best league in the world".
I happen to support Liverpool. If my family was from another place then we'd support somebody else. I am listing my own example knowing that fans of other teams can add their own twist to this, from their own perspective. I do of course definitely blame the Reds for their part in the cost of Anfield tickets, it's their stadium after all but I can't blame just my own team for it, more the Premier League as a whole with all of it's teams taking at least some share of accountability and I'll explain why... If Liverpool took their own admirable moral stance and kept ticket prices down unilaterally then they'd fall financially and then competitively behind their rivals, such is the greed for success culture that they're all playing in. The teams are all terrified of each other, worried about losing their place behind a rival in the race for Europe or for a place in the Premier League itself such is the financial difference granted to each league placing and the sponsorship that rewards it.
Prices have increased steadily above the rate of inflation year upon year since the inception of the Premier League. Much has changed of course in following our national game since 1986, much for the better it must be said... but also some for the worse.
In common with plenty of my mates I can honestly say I have been there seen it and done it as a fan, so we know what we're talking about... but where are we ever given a voice on matters affecting the game and more importantly affecting us directly?
I'm not saying that we should run the sport from our seats in the stands or from in the alehouse after the match, what I can state as fact though is that we are the experts in supporting the teams and are a vital ingredient for the sport so we should have some sort of say.
We are told periodically how valuable we are, how unique we are. Imagine those great European nights shown on live TV without us playing our full part... they wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an exciting proposition for the sponsors would they?
Let's cut to the chase and get a couple of excuses for ticket pricing policy out of the way before I go on:
* I know that standing up was cheaper than sitting down and I'll even assume a price of the most expensive seats from 1986, which was exactly double the cost of standing up... so that would make the equivalent cost of a season ticket for the Kemlyn Road in 1986 as £90
* Lets say that the clubs need to make the same money over the course of a season from the current 19 Premier League matches that they did from the days of the Football League's 21 matches (very debatable I know, but lets be generous and let them have that so the cost is spread for the season as a whole)
With the above two conditions granted I can calculate what the £90 season ticket in 1986 is worth in today's prices by putting it against the retail price index... it works out as £206.25. That's a staggeringly low amount compared to what we pay now. It means at Anfield we're paying either £680 or £732 this season for a seat that would work out as just less than £11.00 per match in real terms based on 1986 prices!
It almost defies belief doesn't it? It's crept up on us year by year but the cost is reaching breaking point now and I can see a reduction in attendances coming very soon. There's an advert on the radio out at the moment from a channel that that says remember when we could all afford to go to the match? Well it's now cheaper to watch it with us instead!
I could of course just vote with my feet, say I'm not paying that much and go and do something else but that is not only morally wrong but would entirely miss the point. The whole essence of being a supporter like me and my mates, like those who follow all the other teams with equal love and fervour is that it involves a life's journey. I take my lad and am "lucky" enough most of the time to get adult/child tickets but there is no guarantee with that and I'm sometimes faced with the cost of two adult tickets! My dad followed the team before us, so did my granddad...and my great-granddad. It's a passion we've shared through the good times and bad, through our triumphs and tragedies. It's our team.
Lord Justice Taylor's Report on the Hillsborough Disaster made 76 recommendations with the main focus being his recommendation for all-seater stadia. The authorities and football clubs in this country jumped at this opportunity, championing the new blue-print for football but there was a deafening silence on what Taylor had added, when he stated that in going to all-seater stadia, the result should not be increases in ticket prices that takes the game away from its traditional supporters. He quoted £6 I think as his recommended price for a seat. Taylor was referring to the legions of fans from a century of supporting their teams through thick and (mostly) thin, whose passion for the sport made it what it is today; the national game, the world's game. He meant the likes of me and my mates, those of us who had survived the very disaster he was reporting on.
I've heard slick football executives wax lyrical about the Premier League and all its qualities and to be fair there are many but while they'll happily quote and highlight the rare good deal for the sake of argument - and not what the vast majority of seats regularly cost - ticket pricing is something they don't like to be drawn on or talk about.
If there are any excuses about the costs of tickets let's be clear on a couple of points:
* attendances since 1986 have increased and now there is no standing so that means that all of the punters are paying the same higher level of price for their tickets, in the old days maybe half the ground was paying a lesser price for standing up but now the whole ground all pay what would have been the higher seat price
* sponsorship money has come into the game on a level that could never previously have been imagined in 1986. I don't think anybody could've believed at the time the money that would flood into the sport, it's a whole world away from where we were back then
* the major factor is the increase in player power and the knock-on effect from the Bosman ruling but if the clubs collectively charged less for tickets, they could still afford to attract and make very rich young men out of very good players
This means that if the game was run properly in this country - I suppose I should say if it was run even remotely fairly - then this massive financial cake that we've got in football now - gigantic compared to what it was in 1986 - has more than enough to go around for everybody. So guess who gets bigger slices of this cake? Players? Yes. Agents? Yes. Clubs? Yes. The Premier League? Yes. Supporters? No!
I could understand an increase over time above living costs to account for improved facilities and stewarding, more medical staff at clubs as players' fitness and conditioning improves etc but it would be insulting our intelligence to say that ticket prices need to be at this extortionate level to cover them. If ticket costs had been kept in check the clubs would still run, there would still be a high-profile and successful league to enjoy. Prices are nowhere near as dear in other major European leagues and they still thrive; neither of last season's Champions League finalists came from England, nor did the previous seasons' winners. Germany has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five biggest leagues. Last season a seat on Borussia Dortmund's equivalent to the Kop had an average price of around £13 (directly comparable to 1986 prices) and the cost even includes free rail travel to and from the stadium! From experience I can say that it's a fine stadium, it hosted the 2001 UEFA Cup Final. It's all a question of balance isn't it? I'm not suggesting that I should turn up next season and instantly expect to pay £30 less for each of my match tickets but surely it can be recognised that we're paying far too much and it needs sorting out.
If the clubs did cut their cloth smaller regarding players' wages you never know, we might even have more home-grown players in the Premier League as an added benefit. It's not even as though the massive hike in ticket prices has been filtered down to benefit grassroots football in this country and to help improve the performance of the national team over the long term is it? The problem is that the various parties like the clubs, players and agents etc all act independently for their own interests which has not been for the good of the game. There are other ills with the status quo like how clubs are overspending to the point where their very future existence could be at risk but this is an argument against Premier League ticket prices so I'll stick to that here.
I've got plenty of friends who I could name who've been priced out of going the match during these past 25 seasons. An important part of their lives has been moved away from them. Our loyalty as fans has been taken for granted. Our love for our teams, their traditions, the friendships built up and what our communities have meant to us has been exploited and we're paying through the nose.
How long can I afford to keep it going? Shouldn't the average working man be able to afford to go and take his lad to watch their team every other week?
Like anything in life, today's children are the future. There is now a generation of people who've been priced out of being supporters because we're talking about almost a £100 day out for a "dad and lad". There's a whole culture of young fans not going to the matches because of the cost. The Premier League's average supporter age increases each year. We've got kids growing up believing satellite television is what football is all about and people who think a great atmosphere is when noise levels increase down the local pub when the big game is shown in there!
It's time we got together across the clubs and concentrated on what we have in common, what brings us together and to remember that we all need each other to get the best out of each other. It's time for some kind of official representation, time the Premier League put on the agenda ticket price reductions. The only thing is, with the way greed has steadily become part of the game over time it's hard to see a way out of the current state we're in... but we can't afford to just shrug our shoulders and give up.
The most likely outcome is that attendances will fall in the future and that clubs will then have to try to do something about the mess that's left over but by then it might be too late for many supporters who've been pushed too far away from the game to ever come back... and just as likely, too late for many clubs who will go bust if they all carry on at this rate! Anybody who loves the game wouldn't just wait for the bubble to burst, there's enough interest, passion, money and expertise around to stop the whole thing from imploding in on itself. The massive challenge of going to all-seater stadia was managed, so there can be no excuse for not being able to rectify inflated ticket prices.
It's our game, the supporters' game, why should we let others ruin it for us? I guarantee you, if for just one week all the supporters from the different clubs could get together and make one meaningful protest then we'd see some swift movement towards fairer prices. Trusting those with influence running the game to consider the fans hasn't worked for us.
The problem is of course that such is football rivalry, there are fans who'll say their own club couldn't be the problem, that they charge less than others, for example "only" £39 per ticket for 'premium' matches. Then there are others who'll say that their team finishes higher than yours and you only get what you pay for. The masses have fallen victim, inch by inch, to a classic case of divide and conquer. A large section of fans have slowly been coaxed without realising it, into accepting an agenda set by greed. So much so that while you might hear fans complain about their club not having enough money for example to compete with those in the top few places in the Premier League, you'll never hear them also moan about the plight of the other clubs, who are an equal distance below their own club on the money ladder. It's time to recognise we're all getting ripped off and we have got the power to do something about it if only we'd all do it together.
In 1986 the game had many problems and thankfully most of the issues from that time have been cleaned up to a large extent but in doing so, the game has twisted in another direction and lost the plot along the way, hurting its traditional and most reliable and vibrant supporters in the pocket and there's no justification for it. Lord Justice Taylor would have been angry about today's ticket prices and I'm livid about it!
Damian Kavanagh
http://www.liverpoolbanter.co.uk/2010/08/against-modrn-football-a-compl.html
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I get really wond up when I hear football commentators [who are getting paid to attend] moad about the empty seats [even worse when they moan about them at stupid o'clock kick off times]
We all know the reason why the cost of attending football is so high, and it has very little to do with the improvements to stadiums, it is simply the amount of money paid to footballers
When times are hard and fans find it increasingly difficult to attend matches do we see the footballers having a sense of community spirit and accepting a lower wage? answer... do we bollocks
Clubs have to start offering deals out to reduce the price to encourage attendance, then their profit margins potentially reduce, so the fans are worse off with the economy, this leads to the clubs being worse off, but the only one's who really benifit are the players!
All in this together.... my arse
Mark
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
And totally agree Mark - whenever the pundits have a go at fans they can jog on.
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
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So does anyone know where there could be some figures to confirm the drops in attendances this season? When I read the tabloids during the summer the image was that Premier League was still booming.
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http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics
select attendance from the drop down menu, and select year.
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It's ironic that we have this thread where people seem to be in agreement that something needs to be done, yet there is the Ashley Young Contract thread where most (incl me) seem to advocate giving him a pay-rise.
It's a classic catch-22. You either pay less wages (losing your best players) but offer cheap tickets or expensive tickets and high wages.
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With Liverpool and Man United no longer being the economic power houses that they once were, do you think that they'd be more receptive to some form of regulation from the premier league?
A salary cap would make the Premier League more competitive but would mean that the top players would be likely to go elsewhere, to a league that can pay more in wages.
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Along with a recession, I'm convinced part of the problem is that people are catching on to the fact that the playing field gets ever more uneven year on year. Look at the 'top 4' tonight. Liverpool are skint and look at where they are (aren't?). Success is now utterly determined by who owns your club. So, pick you games, support your club as best you can. But unless you support Man City, Manu Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal chances are you will not win anything this season and the odds are getting longer every year. Not exactly the most enticing for the floating majority.
This.
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There is another element to this as well (I wrote this in a copy of H&V some editions ago)
The first match of the season vs Kitstealers - before the game a friend and i nip in for a quick pint at the Aston Hotel - on there not 250 yards from the ground was the game on live (Now whether that is legal or not there were planty of guys in there who were all kitted out and ready to drink and watch the game for free all afternoon. This is not a critisism of those that did but i bet in a full afternoon they have drunk the price of a ticket!!
The other point is that a close friend of mine was a ST holder for 20 years with his lad - his lad has moved away and now he really does not want to go to the game and sit on his own (at least with standing you could move around until you met a group that were of your liking where as with seating if you get the farty, smelly twat next to you your stuck. Any how he now pays a small sum (i think 5.99) each saturday and watches every game in HD from the comfort of his own home. He certainly is not short of the money to buy a ticket
So i believe the answer is of course lower the prices - but more of an impact would be made if the games were not so easily accessible by a variety of formats - if the choice was MOTD / highlights or the real thing - more would pay to see the real thing
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
You're right of course but we couldn't even work with Villa Talk let alone KRO or Gorty Dick and, despite Mr Kavanagh's fine words, I don't see much likelihood of cooperation between the Spirit of Shankley people and the green and gold protesters at Old Trafford.
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can the general be asked to read that excellent piece by the Liverpool fan? i am personally just about able to afford the home season tickets for me and the lad but am struggling to go to the 7-8 away games that i have done for the last 4 years. Something needs to be done!
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
You're right of course but we couldn't even work with Villa Talk let alone KRO or Gorty Dick and, despite Mr Kavanagh's fine words, I don't see much likelihood of cooperation between the Spirit of Shankley people and the green and gold protesters at Old Trafford.
Yet we were doing it twenty years ago, when large-scale violence was a vivid memory. What's changed?
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
You're right of course but we couldn't even work with Villa Talk let alone KRO or Gorty Dick and, despite Mr Kavanagh's fine words, I don't see much likelihood of cooperation between the Spirit of Shankley people and the green and gold protesters at Old Trafford.
Yet we were doing it twenty years ago, when large-scale violence was a vivid memory. What's changed?
Football?
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
Sometimes dog eat dog mentality within football supporting fraternity baffles me. After all we all want the same thing for our clubs but somehow translate that into absolute hatred for each other.
Can someone tell us about the work FSF are doing? Surely it should be within their remit to tackle issues like this?
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
Sometimes dog eat dog mentality within football supporting fraternity baffles me. After all we all want the same thing for our clubs but somehow translate that into absolute hatred for each other.
Can someone tell us about the work FSF are doing? Surely it should be within their remit to tackle issues like this?
One of them spends a lot of time on messageboards but apart from that I don't know. I was involved with the FSA for many years and I'm still proud of the work we did, but the FSF seems happy to make a statement on an issue and that's it.
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hi anybody know how to download a form for the half season ticket as there seems to be no link on the web site and nothing in the tickets section
silly me lol found em forget this post
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The F.A should be worried, if a week on week supporter decides he can no loger afford to go to matches he will find another outlet for entertainment, once that happens he will in all probability only go on rare occassions. The money paid to players is obscene especially considering the problems with the british economy and the amount of people struggling to keep their heads above water. In Aussie rules clubs have an allocation of money for players wages, they cannot go beyond that amount and you see clubs letting players go to make room for other players coming in, if it was open house you would get the richer clubs dominating as they do in the premiership. It is noticeable how Man U and Liverpool have become beatable since the money dried up, if the Arabs hadn't bought City then things may have settled down.
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The F.A should be worried, if a week on week supporter decides he can no loger afford to go to matches he will find another outlet for entertainment, once that happens he will in all probability only go on rare occassions.
Which is exactly what I've done. I've never had a season ticket as I have to work a fair number of weekends, but 10 - 15 years ago I used to go to most home games (I got enough ticket stubs to go to Wembley in 94, 96 and 2000).
Nowadays, I just can't justify the expense, and I go to maybe 4 - 5 games a season. I'm sure there must be thousands of others like me.
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Brilliant debate this and a very important insight from the Liverpool fan.
Football clubs are a business like any other in terms of income and expediture and the P&L. Costs to the clubs are simply too high and of course the part of the balance sheet which is us, has to recoup those costs. So we can't afford it. No wonder we boo if our players show no interest before turning teh key in their bloody Lambo's and Astons.
In any other business would the wage bill be 80% of turnover? Or in Man Cities case, according to latest figures, higher than gross turnover!
I would somehow investigate capping players salaries.
I would bring back a portion of the ground to standing. Cheaper but more fans. Give the next generation a chance to attend.
I would spread the money around the clubs more than we do to stop the perpetual richer getting richer.
I would certainly advocate a Nationwide Fans body with teeth.
At the moment each club and it's fans is at the mercy of the Banks and without a common goal for the survival of "Football".
We are all in this alone.
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The big problem is as long as someone is willing to pay a fortune to televise it nothing will change. There are still a lot of mega rich looking for a toy to play with, the way Villa is structured Randy would have no trouble selling for a handsome profit if he had a mind to.
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Well written comment by the Liverpool fan - and he's right, unless we drop the tribalism and recognise what we have in common on these key issues then we'll keep heading down this path and will reap what we sow.
That's something I've harked on about to the point of obsession for aeons, but it's a lot easier to say you hate your opposite number at every other club and laugh at their misfortunes rather than work together to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
Sometimes dog eat dog mentality within football supporting fraternity baffles me. After all we all want the same thing for our clubs but somehow translate that into absolute hatred for each other.
Can someone tell us about the work FSF are doing? Surely it should be within their remit to tackle issues like this?
One of them spends a lot of time on messageboards but apart from that I don't know. I was involved with the FSA for many years and I'm still proud of the work we did, but the FSF seems happy to make a statement on an issue and that's it.
FSF go out there way to help on issues. Legal issues to away guides in Europe, found them more than helpful myself.
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FSF go out there way to help on issues. Legal issues to away guides in Europe, found them more than helpful myself.
It isn't out of their way, it's their job. I've no doubt that they do some good in individual matters - and for the money they get so they should. The thing that annoys me is that they're unwilling to campaign like the FSA used to at a time when a proper fans group is needed as much as it ever was.
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When Sky invented football in 92 and clubs received more money than ever before from the T.V deal,clubs were supposed to use this extra money as a way to keep ticket pricesdown and healthy. A few years down the line wages and ticket prices have crept up hand in hand,and i think finally people have realised enough is enough,and we're one of the lucky one's with Villa price's compared to other clubs.
For things to change,things have to get a lot worse yet,lower crowds,people not buying crap from the ground,until the people in charge realise that people are sick of being over paid,only for the money to fall into a Lee Hendrie type pocket.
I can't see this happening in my life time though,and i'm only in my early 30s.
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Some suggestions as to how to fill empty stadia (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11474981)
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The big problem is as long as someone is willing to pay a fortune to televise it nothing will change. There are still a lot of mega rich looking for a toy to play with, the way Villa is structured Randy would have no trouble selling for a handsome profit if he had a mind to.
I think we say things like that on here so often that we come to accept them as an unarguable truth.
We owe a lot of money. We owe it to Randy, yes, but any buyer is going to have to see off that debt as well.
I'd say that any billionaire looking for a piece of the PL to buy would do much better to look at Everton than us. Yes, they need a new stadium, but they're otherwise relatively debt free. I suggest building a new ground for Everton would cost less than paying off the money we owe Randy.
I'm also not too sure there are plenty of mega rich people looking for an expensive toy to play with these days, either, to be honest.
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FSF go out there way to help on issues. Legal issues to away guides in Europe, found them more than helpful myself.
It isn't out of their way, it's their job. I've no doubt that they do some good in individual matters - and for the money they get so they should. The thing that annoys me is that they're unwilling to campaign like the FSA used to at a time when a proper fans group is needed as much as it ever was.
I think they do go well out their way, its not their job to deal with individual matters at all hours of the day for example as i know they do, calling people on evenings and weekends with individual help and advice. Youve only got to look at their website to see that they try and get involved in lots of campaigns on behalf of the fans
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I think they do go well out their way, its not their job to deal with individual matters at all hours of the day for example as i know they do, calling people on evenings and weekends with individual help and advice. Youve only got to look at their website to see that they try and get involved in lots of campaigns on behalf of the fans
Like I said, it's their job. They get paid for it. I've seen the FSF's website and get their e mails/magazine and I see a lot of self-congratulatory backslapping, plenty of talking shop, but not much actual, tangible work. Compare it to what the volunteers of the FSA did; you'd say that was going out of their way.
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I read a little snippet a while back in the paper. It was about fans of a German club going on strike because they were being charged too much at an away match.
Needless to say it was far less than we get asked at just about any PL ground. I don't see it happening here. Just look at the turning up late/non-attendence for games you've already paid for form of protest most prevalent in the British game.
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Crowds in Germany are up again this year. BM normally sell out at 69K. They have 39K ST's and some other schemes that leaves only 8K available for free purchase for matchday. Their average ST price is 550 Euros and avearge sinlge ticket price is 55 Euros.
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Their average ST price is 550 Euros and avearge sinlge ticket price is 55 Euros.
What's the exchange rate at present?
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Their average ST price is 550 Euros and avearge sinlge ticket price is 55 Euros.
What's the exchange rate at present?
About 1.12 to the pound so Bayern aren't that cheap.
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Crowds in Germany are up again this year. BM normally sell out at 69K. They have 39K ST's and some other schemes that leaves only 8K available for free purchase for matchday. Their average ST price is 550 Euros and avearge sinlge ticket price is 55 Euros.
About 1.12 to the pound so Bayern aren't that cheap.
And there was me thinking Borussia Monchengladbach had a much bigger fan base than I realised...
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I read a little snippet a while back in the paper. It was about fans of a German club going on strike because they were being charged too much at an away match.
Needless to say it was far less than we get asked at just about any PL ground. I don't see it happening here. Just look at the turning up late/non-attendence for games you've already paid for form of protest most prevalent in the British game.
I read that on the bbc site, it was because tickets had gone over 25 euro's i think, would be good if it happened here but i really cant see it..
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It was for Shalke against Dortmund aswell, a massive derby game and the fans boycotted because they were being charged 19 euros for a terrace ticket. I'd love to pay 19 euros to stand on a terrace at VP! I'd be happier aswell paying 40 odd quid to stand on a terrace than to sit in a plastic seat with no atmosphere.