Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pmk1981 on September 30, 2010, 11:41:11 AM
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As we have prob all seen houllier has given faith to petrov and won't take the captaincy off him. But he has said he wants more leadership from other players. To me this says that he doesn't really feel petrov has all the qualities to be a captain but doesn't want to cause a stink by taking it off him Mid season. I can see petrov leaving in summer or the captaincy given to someone else next season
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Is how I see it as well. It was well played by Houllier i think, as taking the captaincy would guarantee some friction in the squad just as everyone should be pulling together.
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Where are these comments from?
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I think you're reading too much into it. I think all successful sides have many leaders on the pitch and he's just saying he wants others to take more responsibility rather than being any sort of dig at Petrov.
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On the OS
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I think NRC and Dunne are the natural leaders in our side. Stan will keep it for now, but I'd expect a new man to have the armband by the start of next season.
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I'd give it James Collins with out any hesitation
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Where are these comments from?
]Petrov to keep armband
(UKPA) – 2 hours ago
Stiliyan Petrov will continue as Aston Villa captain under new manager Gerard Houllier.
The Bulgarian international was given the armband in succession to Gareth Barry two years ago when the midfielder looked destined to move to Liverpool before eventually signing for Manchester City 12 months later.
Houllier said: "I won't change captain. The captain is not only the leader on the field. He is a leader by example."
The Frenchman added: "He knows what we want to do anyway. I prefer to rely on a group of leaders, two or three players - not only one person.
"One can be the technical leader, one can be the energiser, one can be the captain."
Striker Gabriel Agbonlahor remains Houllier's main injury concern ahead of Saturday's Barclays Premier League clash at Tottenham.
The England player has been troubled by calf and now groin problems during the current campaign.
But his forward partner John Carew (back) and defender Richard Dunne (knee) are expected to be back in contention for the trip to White Hart Lane.
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Looks like the team will have a passenger for the forseeable future then. Ah well.
Petrov needs to up his game for us dramatically.
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GH is hardly going to come out and say "Christ he's slow isn't he? And he disappears after 60 minutes"
I don't expect Petrov to be at the club beyond this season.
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Give it to Collins, he would be a better captain and it might give Petrov a kick up the backside.
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Gezza?
FFS.
Petrov shouldn't be a captain.
Petrov a leader by example? Are we only playing 60 minute games from now on then?
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Give it to Collins, he would be a better captain and it might give Petrov a kick up the backside.
To my mind if everyone is fit Collins will struggle to get in ahead of Dunne and Cuellar and doesn't strike me as captain material anyway.
I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
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All he's saying is more people should be leaders on the pitch and I agree! Petrov is getting a bit of unfair stick really. We all know we need better but for now we have to go with it.
Collins is vocal as is NRC, Maybe Petrov is a model for the players off the pitch also.
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
Better that than being one of those crashing bores who think that they always know best. You know the type.
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Give it to Collins, he would be a better captain and it might give Petrov a kick up the backside.
To my mind if everyone is fit Collins will struggle to get in ahead of Dunne and Cuellar and doesn't strike me as captain material anyway.
I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
To my mind Dunne's the man to miss out if everyone's fit. But each to their own.
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
Better that than being one of those crashing bores who think that they always know best. You know the type.
Are you my wife?
.
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
Better that than being one of those crashing bores who think that they always know best. You know the type.
Are you my wife?
.
It can't be, she's with me.
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
Better that than being one of those crashing bores who think that they always know best. You know the type.
Are you my wife?
.
I think your chat up technique needs a bit of work.
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I think that people are reading a bit much into this. This goes about as far as giving Petrov a vote of confidence as a player, because Robbie Keane aside club captains tend to play most games.
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I think that people are reading a bit much into this. This goes about as far as giving Petrov a vote of confidence as a player, because Robbie Keane aside club captains tend to play most games.
Ledley King is Spurs club captain isn't he? Although your point still stands quite emphatically.
Gary Neville would be another who doesn't play very often.
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
Better that than being one of those crashing bores who think that they always know best. You know the type.
Are you my wife?
.
I think your chat up technique needs a bit of work.
USAV and Chris, sitting in a tree...
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We shouldn't switch captains at this stage of a season. That's certainly no garauntee Petrov is undroppable. I think Houllier will pick on form and fitness. Stan looks fucked already. In a couple of games time we might have no choice but to drop him.
Trouble is, he's one of the only central midfielders we've got. And one of the few more defensive orientated midfielders. GH has his hands tied by the squad left to him. Sidwell is the natural replacement, but he's total bobbins. Ireland would be wasted playing as one of a central 2, as we've already seen.
That will be Houlliers first order of business in january, to get some grit and energy into CM because right now only Coker offers that.
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Problem is with everyone fit I don't think Dunne, Collins, Petrov or NRC are guaranteed a place, so I'd leave it for now.
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if Petrov legs is going. Could the new fitness program help him to improve his legs and better passing game mean less chasing and more effective use of his energy.
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All I read into it is that GH will maintain the status quo til the summer when I expect to see a bit of a rebuild, after the sh1t that Martin left us in the last thing we need at the moment is more change. Why change what is til Saturday a winning forumla.
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Mr H will see the day to day training. And he obviously thinks Petrov is ok. The one thing he is trying to establish is solidarity and to drop Petrov would only cause friction. My personal choice would be Collins .......
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This story means nothing to me, because Houllier has already proved he will sub petrov if he is playing shit.
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I would go along with collins as captain but would changing it now have a negative effect on the team. I would wait untill the summer then decide on the new captain.
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Carlos, Dunne, Collins, NRC could all do it I reckon.
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I think that people are reading a bit much into this. This goes about as far as giving Petrov a vote of confidence as a player, because Robbie Keane aside club captains tend to play most games.
Ledley King is Spurs club captain isn't he? Although your point still stands quite emphatically.
Gary Neville would be another who doesn't play very often.
Neville was replaced by Vidic as permanent captain for the precise reason of who plays more. Like you say, with Keane or King the point still stands.
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I think that people are reading a bit much into this. This goes about as far as giving Petrov a vote of confidence as a player, because Robbie Keane aside club captains tend to play most games.
Ledley King is Spurs club captain isn't he? Although your point still stands quite emphatically.
Gary Neville would be another who doesn't play very often.
Neville was replaced by Vidic as permanent captain for the precise reason of who plays more. Like you say, with Keane or King the point still stands.
Neville is still club captain (http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?newsid=6652290&pagegid={B4CEE8FA-9A47-47BC-B069-3F7A2F35DB70}), Vidic is team captain.
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Huh. Weird. I suppose that shows just how much the role of the captain has changed. I imagine Stan is great at all that off-field stuff, as well as in training, all the ex-Celtic players talk about how good a guy he is to have in the dressing room, and Bannan and Albrighton have mentioned his willingness to give advice as well.
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There are also stories that he phones up the guys who are out on loan to see how they are getting on as well.
He probably doesn't have more than another six months in the role, but along with Laursen he's probably been one of the better captains we've seen in the last decade or so.
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Gezza?
FFS.
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Petrov should not even be playing for us, let alone be Captain. A January window move to Bolton would be best for all concerned.
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Have we nominated Bolton as the ex-villans rest home?
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I hope Dunne, Warnock, Petrov and Carew are all replaced.
That is all.
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I hope Dunne, Warnock, Petrov and Carew are all replaced.
That is all.
Strange how Dunne and Warnock have fallen from grace so quickly. Can players who were doing so well really turn bad like that?
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I have a lot of respect for Petrov, he runs himself into the ground for the team. Sadly, as we all know, he runs out of steam in the last 20 mins. The fact he was substituted at Wolves is a signal that his days as one of the first names on the team sheet are coming to an end. It happens to everyone eventually.
I would expect to see a replacement bought in January.
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There are also stories that he phones up the guys who are out on loan to see how they are getting on as well.
If that's true then top bloke, I wonder how many other club captains do that?
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I'm happy to trust the manager on this.
(c) Chris Smith 2002-Present.
Made me smile. Very good. Sorry Chris!
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Shouldn't that be Gézza?
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"One can be the technical leader, one can be the energiser, one can be the captain."
Interesting view. Brad, NRC, Petrov?
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Don't we have a number of ex captains in the squad? Dunne, Reo-Coker, Davies and I also think Downing was for middlesboro at one time. There should be enough leaders on the pitch with that lot (Downing excepted!)
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I think GH has sussed Petrov out.
We all know he's a skillful player, but hasn't pushed on from his excellent 2008/9 season.
In fact he's gone backwards ( much like 75% of his passing) and I think GH will look to replace Stan sooner rather than later.
We need a more mobile player and one that can shoot too.
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I don't think Petrov will be a regular come the end of the season, this is the start of him being slowly phased out of the team I'd say.
Before long GH will want a central midfielder who can last 90 minutes and will buy one in January.
I'm a fan of Stan but he just hasn't looked right this season at all.
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To be fair, I thought Saturday was his best game so far this season.
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It's yet to be seen whether his problem is being over the hill or simply form. Because of his position I'm tempted to say that it's form, and he did play much better on Saturday.
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When we play with three wingers who cannot head or tackle
Downing-wont tackle
Young-gets tackled doesnt do tackling
Albrighton-does tackle-gets booked
then the other midfielders need to be able to head AND tackle to stop the opposition getting straight at the back 4
petrov can neither head or tackle
NRC can tackle but isn't big enough to dominate in the middle-and has the 1st touch of a recently deceased donkey.
I have no UEFA coaching qualifications but it seems blindingly obvious to me that Petrov has to be phased out for Stephen ireland who is a much better passer of the ball and makes good runs etc
and NRC just has to be phased out when we buy a proper tall mobile defensive midfielder
simples (ohh how annoying)
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Ireland cannot play in deep midfield. It's a disaster for him and the team.
You should really have a maximum of one player in your midfield who is a specialist tackler if you're looking to keep possession. I think Petrov will be fine once GH's philosophy and style has really taken root (it does take a lot of practice), and once Ireland is playing well and back in the team with him and NRC. Then we'll see the best of him.
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Ireland cannot play in deep midfield. It's a disaster for him and the team.
You should really have a maximum of one player in your midfield who is a specialist tackler if you're looking to keep possession. I think Petrov will be fine once GH's philosophy and style has really taken root (it does take a lot of practice), and once Ireland is playing well and back in the team with him and NRC. Then we'll see the best of him.
so are you saying you would play S.I. petrov and NRC in the mid?
at the expense of the 3 wingers and a big man?
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Ireland cannot play in deep midfield. It's a disaster for him and the team.
You should really have a maximum of one player in your midfield who is a specialist tackler if you're looking to keep possession. I think Petrov will be fine once GH's philosophy and style has really taken root (it does take a lot of practice), and once Ireland is playing well and back in the team with him and NRC. Then we'll see the best of him.
so are you saying you would play S.I. petrov and NRC in the mid?
at the expense of the 3 wingers and a big man?
Definitely. For a start I don't think Young is playing as a winger at all, but in an advanced second striker role. I'd like to see Ireland in the team, a bit deeper than Young is playing now. We need variety in attack, and at the moment I see something more like "special teams": Petrov and NRC hold and link, Young, the wingers and striker attack, which is fine but better suited to counter-attacking, and doesn't get the best out of Petrov. I'd like to see a slightly more all-encompassing attacking system, but that takes time and practice.
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I agree we need variety in our attacking play
I hope we will invest in the window but that's a long way off
GH has reputation for safety 1st football
after the spurs defeat i think we will see more tacklers in midfield
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I agree we need variety in our attacking play
I hope we will invest in the window but that's a long way off
GH has reputation for safety 1st football
after the spurs defeat i think we will see more tacklers in midfield
I disagree. His reputation doesn't tally with what he's been saying nor how we've played, or tried to play, underneath him so far. I don't think we'll see more tacklers in midfield, nor that the defeat to Spurs will change anything about what GH wants us to do - indeed, he said it was our best performance under him so far (I don't think it was a coincidence that it was also Petrov's best game for him so far).
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only 1 midfielder can tackle (NRC) and he has such poor 1st touch that he often loses it
he will soon spot that
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NRC's been good so far though, I actually think his first touch and passing has improved immeasurably. I think Delph coming back will make us a more rounded team, though, and I'd like a deep-lying player of real creativity, a Xavi or a Veron style player, as that would improve our ability to keep the ball beyond measure.
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NRC's been good so far though, I actually think his first touch and passing has improved immeasurably. I think Delph coming back will make us a more rounded team, though, and I'd like a deep-lying player of real creativity, a Xavi or a Veron style player, as that would improve our ability to keep the ball beyond measure.
Like Michael Carrick?
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Football 365's Winners and Losers ffom this weeks games.
Stiliyan Petrov
If you have the chance to watch Tottenham's winner against Villa again, put Van der Vaart to the background and focus on the visitors' captain. As the Tottenham attack unfolds, Petrov will track the Dutchman across the pitch and then follow him, with apparent diligence, into the penalty area. He then stops. Van der Vaart keeps moving. As Peter Crouch heads the ball back towards his team-mate, Petrov seemingly wakes up to the looming danger but then hesitates in the expectation that Richard Dunne will intercept. He doesn't. Petrov finally reacts, but it is too late. He is a yard short of the Tottenham match-winner as he wins the match.
In short, it is an example of precisely how not to defend as a midfielder and a stark illustration of Villa's principal shortcoming. The centre of their midfield is just one massive failing.
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I will collect my uefa coaching certificate now(if someone can fake me a good one) ;D
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Sure, he made that mistake. But watching the game back it's quite clear to me that it was NRC's brief to stay on VDV and Petrov's to try and block off the space for Modric. I thought he did this very well, NRC doing his job less well but his job was probably the more difficult. Now, with NRC otherwise engaged, Petrov had to fill in his brief. He didn't do this on the second goal, but I really think people were just waiting for Petrov to hit a rough patch and then pounce on him.
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We have to play Petrov. We simply haven't got the players to replace him with. Ireland cannot play the deep lying role. That means one of Sidwell, Osbourne, Salifou or Hogg playing. We cannot sacrifice the strength of having two primarily defensive players in the team as we are setting out to attack all out with three wingers.
That is why the only change I'd make would be Cuellar in for Dunne... That said I would also consider a more defensive line up where we sacrifice one of Albrighton or Downing for Ireland.
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We have to play Petrov. We simply haven't got the players to replace him with. Ireland cannot play the deep lying role. That means one of Sidwell, Osbourne, Salifou or Hogg playing. We cannot sacrifice the strength of having two primarily defensive players in the team as we are setting out to attack all out with three wingers.
That is why the only change I'd make would be Cuellar in for Dunne... That said I would also consider a more defensive line up where we sacrifice one of Albrighton or Downing for Ireland.
That all looks pretty much correct to me.
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Petrov is really(or was when he joined) an attacking midfielder
but with a team with Young Albrighton and young needs defensivly minded midfielders to stem the flow from the enemy
Petrov is a good passer of the ball and has a decent football brain
but he is not defensively minded(see above and many other examples on you tube)
He cannot head it or really tackle or get physical
MON bought him to link in behind the big man he had in mind(Carew or heskey)
In his 1st game he was bursting in and almost scoring-but didn't score and his confidence waned
MON kept faith with him and moved him back to be a 'midfield general'
but he hasn't convinced there either
and yet he is Captain undroppable no matter how crap he plays,unfit he looks or goals he is plainly culpable for
we cannot get rid soon enough
what kind of Captain is he?I rarely see him doing much besides the occaisional exasperated bit of pointing
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Petrov played in Scotland as an attacking midfelder.
Stick him in League One and he might even get away with playing as a striker.
NRC would probably be a goalscoring midfielder up there.
Far more telling is that for a large chunk of his international career - a higher standard in other words- he has been utilised as as a far deeper CM/ DM. He was doing this for Bulgaria long before he became a Villa player.
I accept that part of the frustration many have with him is when we signed him we thought we were getting our very own Lampard/ Gerrard. It didn't work out that way and we only got the best out of him when he was deeper joining up play from the back.
Also: he can tackle. It's just not in the bone crunching manner that gets people off their seats. At his best he is a canny player, who reads the game well intercepts the ball and keeps things ticking over. I agree he hasn't been at his best this season, but he's still a vital player for us. He's not an obvious captain in the fist clenching kiss the badge manner. But he is vocal out on the pitch and is well thought of at the club by the younger and older players alike.
I'm glad that GH doesn't view him as completely untouchable though as MON seemed to. When he tires in the latter stages of the second half we tend to get overrun. Part of that is the workload he gets through, but if he needs to come off he needs to come off. Hopefully he'll be better rotated and rested with a new face or two coming in in Jan so that this becomes less of an issue.
Used correctly he can still be a very valuable player for us for a few years yet. His game was never about pace and the strengths he relies on -touch and awareness- tend to be the last things to go.
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Agreed 100% Kevin.
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Petrov WAS primarily an attacking midfielder when he signed, yes, and an awfully ineffective one at that. We all (?) applauded MoN for his foresight in playing him in the deeper role he now occupies, and getting some productivity out of him. However if he is now struggling to keep up with the pace of the game there, where does he go next?? Leicester City.
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Thus, GH must sign a replacement in the January window alongside a decent striker if we're going to be up there fighting for Champions League again this season.
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I'm not sure we even really need to be challenging for the CL positions this year, though it would be nice obviously. If Young signs his contract that means we're losing no more top players next summer and will have the chance at a proper rebuild. We should also give our very promising youth more of a chance to shine through - including up front. Man City's need to comply with the Platini rules means, by their own admission, that the days of spending £125m in a summer are behind them for at least a while now, meaning they won't necessarily stretch so far ahead of us. Neither will Spurs, and Liverpool need a miracle - especially if the Platini regulations stop a loss-making club from being supported by a mega-rich owner, as that would rule out one available shortcut for Liverpool getting back to the top.
As for Petrov himself, I think he's starting to look a bit more like the player we know from the last two seasons. Once Ireland regains form and Delph regains fitness, we'll have proper options for a genuine midfield three. Combine this with GH's passing philosophy, and I think we'll see the best of Petrov again this season.