Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on September 18, 2010, 10:21:40 AM
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Available Saturday evening.
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Fucking dismal point. Get the fuck to work Houllier!
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Outplayed at home by Bolton Wanderers. Lucky point. At. Home. To. Bolton.
Shit.
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Our system is just so suicidal. We have good players in possession, why do we shoe-horn them into a system which means none of them have support on the ball? God Almighty.
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disappointing. It never ceases to amaze me how much we give the ball away. These are professional footballers and surely keeping the football makes more sense. That's the first thing I hope Houllier tries to change. Keep the ball, and if certain players can't move them on and bring in players who can.
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Positives - Downing played decent and went in for some tackles. Albrighton started well and Ireland showed glimpses when he was in correct positions. Biggest positive, thank fuck it's the end of the KMac era.
Negatives- Awful point and hanging on against Bolton at the end of the game is unacceptable. Dunne was in despicable shape and rightly hauled off. Petrov is over the hill full stop and should be dropped.
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Bunch of Arse from about the 13th minute on.
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We jammed the win against Everton. This was poor too. We shouldn't get so thoroughly battered on our own patch, certainly not by Everton, but especially not by Bolton. That we picked up 4 points from said home games is a miracle if I'm perfectly honest.
GH has his work cut out. Sadly I don't expect a sudden delivery of slick, eye catching football either. We'll probably go back to winning ugly, with perhaps less emphasis on hoofing than O Neill.
But with all these attacking midfielders we have, could we not have some fancy football at Villa now? Please!
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All I'll say is, if any player kicks up a fuss that KM wasn't made manager, stick him on the transfer list immediately. If he was so good, and so important, then fucking play for him. It shows me at least that he isn't good enough, and some of the players aren't either. I think there are players in that squad that want to play a different style and haven't been led in that direction yet. I hope Gary Mac looked at that today and said to himself that is the last time we play that way.
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Outplayed by Bolton's reserve side, amazing stuff.
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation and most of the other results went our way. If KM is a Premiership manager Mon is the Messiah.
What a total waste of 14 players in a Villa shirt.
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Outplayed by Bolton's reserve side, amazing stuff.
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation and most of the other results went our way. If KM is a Premiership manager Mon is the Messiah.
What a total waste of 14 players in a Villa shirt.
What are you talking about?
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I'm just glad Ash finally scored from a FK otherwise we would have had nothing from that game. Might as well relieve him from that duty for the rest of the season now as his one for the season is over.
Dunne shouldn't have started after the last few matches and Duverne has his work cut out for him already. I can understand now why supposedly when Dunne suggested they practice passing, MON had them running. He realised that if the bulk wasn't shifted Dunne wouldn't have seen the ball at his feet to pass it anyway.
Drop one of Downing, A Young or MA, play RC with Petrov and Ireland further forward supporting the striker. I'm sure that Ireland could thread some great balls through onto Gabby's runs.
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We did not play like a team today besides the first 13 minutes, tactically we are very naive, we do not know how to pass and move, and trying to shoe 3 wingers and an attacking midfielder into the starting line up just does not work. Reo Coker has his faults we all know this but he provides bite and energy in the middle of the park.
Martin O'Neill walked out 5 days before the start of the season and the impact of this is there for all to see, he did so and knew that it would cause major issues for the club.
The board then took ages to sort out a new manager for whatever reason this has also had an impact.
We have been running on a skeleton staff running the 1st team, reserves and youth team with about 4-5 coaches. This was never going to be enough and coming from the reserves to the premier league is far too much of a step up for Kevin Mac as has been proved since the beginning of the season.
It has been a cluster f**k since May to September and Monday brings a new beginning we need to put this horrible chapter behind us and hope to god Houiller can get in and make some positive changes from the out set because on today's performance and others this season, I am really not positive at all.
Please lets have some light at the end of the tunnel and go out and beat Blackburn on Wednesday, because the fixtures in the league do not get any easier over the next few games!
Wolves (A), Spurs(A), Chelsea(H), Sunderland(A) and Blues(H) to come in the next 5! Not overly confident of the points haul from that lot.
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Started really well, got the goal and then stoppped playing.
Brad, Luke and the ref kept us in it. Footballers being the feckless bunch they are, all that talk of doing it for Kevin MacDonald was bollocks. They looked directionless, uninspired and - despite the attacking team selection - short on ideas.
We miss Milner quite obviously. Houllier must work out what formation suits our collection of players best and then play it and them. If that means a big name gets left out then so be it.
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Is Sid to be first team coach?That`ll sort the passing out.
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
Why play Stephen Ireland so deep? On the couple of occassions that he did get forward, he looked like he could create something.
Why leave Albrighton on the left for so long? Both he and Downing simply disappeared from the game.
Why try to hoof the ball up to Gabby when Knight is at least 2 foot taller than him?
Why to to play football at break-neck speed all the time rather than having a little bit of patience? It's Bolton FFS! They're shit. Utter shit. We could have, and should have, been parked outside their penalty box for 80 minutes.
How K-Mac has done so well in the reserves I'll never know. I'll just have to conclude that other teams really don't give a flying fuck about reserve football. If he can't engineer a result - and I mean a very convincing result - against poor opposition like that, then he's no right to be anywhere near our first team.
I thought some of the pre-match predictions ( 5-0, 8-2) were a little bit optimistic but we should be able to completely bury teams like Bolton at home....without getting out of 2nd gear.
I'm fuming! And Houllier must be wondering what he's got himself into. If he's not yet signed his contract, I'm sure he'll be having doubts.
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Outplayed by Bolton's reserve side, amazing stuff.
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation and most of the other results went our way. If KM is a Premiership manager Mon is the Messiah.
What a total waste of 14 players in a Villa shirt.
What are you talking about?
I'll make it simple, just for you. That was a performance right out of the relegation battle draw. It was a well earned point against a side who will be down there come May. It was a total waste of some great talent ruined by awful tactics and team changes.
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Drop one of Downing, A Young or MA, play RC with Petrov and Ireland further forward supporting the striker. I'm sure that Ireland could thread some great balls through onto Gabby's runs.
Exactly, it's hardly rocket science. Our midfield has absolutely no structure. Sort that out and the defence will look more solid and with so many creative players in the team, we will create the chances.
Today, once again, we played like headless chickens.
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
You are the smart arse who criticised my opinions in the Generals thread when I said KM was no more than a reserve team coach, amongst others.
Seems you have changed your mind of late, good for you.
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
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Outplayed by Bolton's reserve side, amazing stuff.
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation and most of the other results went our way. If KM is a Premiership manager Mon is the Messiah.
What a total waste of 14 players in a Villa shirt.
What are you talking about?
I think he meant the fight AGAINST relegation.
And, as painful as it is to even think it, I'm not sure if he's wrong! We've played teams that are shit. SHIT. And, with the exception of West Ham, we've looked worse than them. I'm not sure at the moment which teams are actually worse than us (I can't imagine even the Kit Stealers will let us get away with pounding them again).
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Outplayed by Bolton's reserve side, amazing stuff.
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation and most of the other results went our way. If KM is a Premiership manager Mon is the Messiah.
What a total waste of 14 players in a Villa shirt.
What are you talking about?
I'll make it simple, just for you. That was a performance right out of the relegation battle draw. It was a well earned point against a side who will be down there come May. It was a total waste of some great talent ruined by awful tactics and team changes.
Why their reserve side? They were missing two first teamers tops from what I could see and both of them were in defence so wouldn't have made much difference as we never troubled them (although Jussi might have saved the FK).
Agree with you for the rest though
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I sense one of our CB's needs shifting up into a defensive midfield position. Be that Collins, I don't know. Clearly, we're got at too easily, and Houlliers first order will be tightening the ship. Had we played better teams in our opening fixtures, we may have been twatted a few more times. Playing 3 wingers is suicide. Nowadays some teams are reluctant to play 2 ffs.
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There was a lack of honesty of effort from the players on show today and that disgusted me. Some players are in awful condition - Dunne, Carew, Gabby. Some in awful form - Petrov and Warnock. Bar Friedel and Luke Young the rest of the Villa side were horrible. Pre season seems to have been a bit of a shambles, the team looks demotivated, unfit, unorganised and just damn poor. Our tactics were 12 year old football manager esque but we have huge problems now. There seems to be a complete lack of leadership in the side, never once did it look like someone was going to stand up and make an impact in the second half. The amount of individual errors leading up to the Bolton goal were unforgiveable. Ireland showed nice touches but he is not a central player in a 442. Petrov needs to be dropped frankly but we still lack a midfielder with balls to take the ball off the back four. The likes of Ashley Young hid again today when the going got tough. We looked bottom tier EPL this afternoon. Bolton were comfortably the better side.
M Petrov looks a great signing, Lee made bits of Warnock while Davies and Elmander made fools of the three central defenders we tried. The loss of Milner seems incalculable at this stage. Petrov is hopeless but who else do we bring in - Reo Coker and Sidwell - ffs. Ashley Young needs to be put back out wide, Albrighton back to the bench. Downing is a nothing player really, Gabby was awful today a real one trick pony etc etc. Houllier needs to come in and make an impact immediately, I just hope he can organise the side because in set pieces today both attacking and defending we were an absolute rabble - thank f*ck Kevin McD wasnt appointed or we would be heading for the championship
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Houllier will concentrate more on defence with his team selection, I doubt we'll be seeing too much of Albrighton, Young, Downing in the same team for a while, not that there is much in the defensive midfield department at the club.
I'd guess when the midfield is being over run he'll strengthen it up in a game not weaken it as our recent manager has done in the last 5 games. I hope so anyway.
Thought Mon's favourite caste off Luke Young had another good game, and his favourite Ashley still hasn't learnt how to take corners. He took the goal well mind.
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
Who would you put in for him though? Delph is injured. Reo? but then we lose the passing aspect and Petrov does more then most give him credit for. Just that without adequate help he gets overrun/ knackered out. First choice should be Reo / Petrov in partnership unless you want to play Osbourne or Salifou in there.
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Outplayed by Bolton's reserve side, amazing stuff.
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation and most of the other results went our way. If KM is a Premiership manager Mon is the Messiah.
What a total waste of 14 players in a Villa shirt.
What are you talking about?
I'll make it simple, just for you. That was a performance right out of the relegation battle draw. It was a well earned point against a side who will be down there come May. It was a total waste of some great talent ruined by awful tactics and team changes.
Why their reserve side? They were missing two first teamers tops from what I could see and both of them were in defence so wouldn't have made much difference as we never troubled them (although Jussi might have saved the FK).
Agree with you for the rest though
The Keeper has less experience than Guzan, they had a replacement cb in who went off early, and was replaced by another who has yet to play in the PL this season, and they never do well against us at VP.
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
You are the smart arse who criticised my opinions in the Generals thread when I said KM was no more than a reserve team coach, amongst others.
Seems you have changed your mind of late, good for you.
Now engage a little intelligence here. It's going to difficult for you, so I'm typing a little slower. Do you honestly believe that was Bolton's reserve side? And more importantly, do you honestly believe we'll be fighting "against" relegation this season? We're lying 8th, a new manager who has a reputation of his teams almost always being top 6, and a transfer window in January to make some changes. Or are you just being the drama queen you always are?
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
Who would you put in for him though? Delph is injured. Reo? but then we lose the passing aspect and Petrov does more then most give him credit for. Just that without adequate help he gets overrun/ knackered out. First choice should be Reo / Petrov in partnership unless you want to play Osbourne or Salifou in there.
What's wrong with Petrov (did I say that), Coker, Ireland and Downing in a stable mid four, leaving Coker to do the break up and defensive priority, Ireland to help but concentrate on moving the ball and pushing on, then Downing to hold and play it wide, with Petrov to just be there.
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The Keeper has less experience than Guzan, they had a replacement cb in who went off early, and was replaced by another who has yet to play in the PL this season, and they never do well against us at VP.
The keeper has more PL experience then Guzan, and looks a decent prospect. Ok, the defender was out but that means they had two players out that from their normal first eleven, hardly a reserve side.
They never normally do well against us at VP but then we have already covered that. Maybe because Cahill wasn't playing he didn't have his normally atrocious game against us we have had the last two seasons.
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
You are the smart arse who criticised my opinions in the Generals thread when I said KM was no more than a reserve team coach, amongst others.
Seems you have changed your mind of late, good for you.
Now engage a little intelligence here. It's going to difficult for you, so I'm typing a little slower. Do you honestly believe that was Bolton's reserve side? And more importantly, do you honestly believe we'll be fighting "against" relegation this season? We're lying 8th, a new manager who has a reputation of his teams almost always being top 6, and a transfer window in January to make some changes. Or are you just being the drama queen you always are?
Obviously although others see my point its too difficult for yourself.
I'm just being a drama queen sweetie go and play with your Barbie doll, sorry and all that xxx
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Just back. In haste. Predictable dire fare, lets hope things pick up when Houllier arrives. Petrov has to be dropped.
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Again3 wingers and no target man
Ammo but no gun
providers but no finish
Petrov or ireland never both
we need NRC to play every game until we buy a better/bigger Defensive midfielder
Dunne needs 4 weeks of fell running-no eating
we need to play it on the deck until wide then cross to a big man
or ball in behind to gabby
not hoofing it forward
a houll revolution cannot come soon enough
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
You are the smart arse who criticised my opinions in the Generals thread when I said KM was no more than a reserve team coach, amongst others.
Seems you have changed your mind of late, good for you.
Now engage a little intelligence here. It's going to difficult for you, so I'm typing a little slower. Do you honestly believe that was Bolton's reserve side? And more importantly, do you honestly believe we'll be fighting "against" relegation this season? We're lying 8th, a new manager who has a reputation of his teams almost always being top 6, and a transfer window in January to make some changes. Or are you just being the drama queen you always are?
Obviously although others see my point its too difficult for yourself.
I'm just being a drama queen sweetie go and play with your Barbie doll, sorry and all that xxx
Ok, Mrs O. We'll be fighting relegation this season. I'll look forward to your revisionism in May.
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The keeper has more PL experience then Guzan, and looks a decent prospect. Ok, the defender was out but that means they had two players out that from their normal first eleven, hardly a reserve side.
They never normally do well against us at VP but then we have already covered that. Maybe because Cahill wasn't playing he didn't have his normally atrocious game against us we have had the last two seasons.
The keepers played once before hasn't he ? There was no Ricketts, no Jaaskelinen, no Cahill, Imagine us without Dunne, Collins and Friedel, Cuellar was replaced before half time and we lost what would you be saying ?
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The keeper has more PL experience then Guzan, and looks a decent prospect. Ok, the defender was out but that means they had two players out that from their normal first eleven, hardly a reserve side.
They never normally do well against us at VP but then we have already covered that. Maybe because Cahill wasn't playing he didn't have his normally atrocious game against us we have had the last two seasons.
The keepers played once before hasn't he ? There was no Ricketts, no Jaaskelinen, no Cahill, Imagine us without Dunne, Collins and Friedel, Cuellar was replaced before half time and we lost what would you be saying ?
this is the same Cahill who was torn to shreds on his last visit to Villa Park? You're right I wish we had played their first team.
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Dire.
Reo Coker is a MUST if Ireland is playing.
Petrov MUST be dropped, contributed nothing at all today and his passing was poor.
Taking off the only central midfielder passing the ball and leaving on 3 wingers to bring on Carew was about as tactically unfathomable as MON taking off the left back for 18 months before Warnock arrived.
Gabby looked done in 40 mins in.
Young looked like he was doing everything for a long time then got kicked out of it.
HOWEVER.... for all our issues, Mike Dean confirms his status as the biggest c*nt ever to referee for me. The overstated signals, the glee in upsetting the crowd, the love of the controversial.
Knight and Kevin Davies should have seen red, and he should have blown for a 2 footed lunge on Warnock in the build up to their goal. He is a complete knob, that makes the most infuriating decisions ever. How a Bolton player can get away with ripping a players shirt from his back without a card is criminal.
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
You are the smart arse who criticised my opinions in the Generals thread when I said KM was no more than a reserve team coach, amongst others.
Seems you have changed your mind of late, good for you.
Criticising YOUR opinions doesn't make anyone a 'smart arse' given that 998 times out of 1000, you're either wrong, trolling for effect or being a dramatic little princess.
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Ok, Mrs O. We'll be fighting relegation this season. I'll look forward to your revisionism in May.
ah the silly names again, brilliant.
I said it was a relegation style performance, OK.
I did not say we are relegation material, far from it, as my subsequent (look it up) comments highlighted.
I'm putting the onus for a very poor performance on to the manager KM, Not Houllier just in case you don't understand although why he didn't go down and sort the idiot out I know not :)
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Dire.
Reo Coker is a MUST if Ireland is playing.
Petrov MUST be dropped, contributed nothing at all today and his passing was poor.
Taking off the only central midfielder passing the ball and leaving on 3 wingers to bring on Carew was about as tactically unfathomable as MON taking off the left back for 18 months before Warnock arrived.
Gabby looked done in 40 mins in.
Young looked like he was doing everything for a long time then got kicked out of it.
HOWEVER.... for all our issues, Mike Dean confirms his status as the biggest c*nt ever to referee for me. The overstated signals, the glee in upsetting the crowd, the love of the controversial.
Knight and Kevin Davies should have seen red, and he should have blown for a 2 footed lunge on Warnock in the build up to their goal. He is a complete knob, that makes the most infuriating decisions ever. How a Bolton player can get away with ripping a players shirt from his back without a card is criminal.
To be fair Ozz, Bolton should have had two penalties.
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To me the side looks low on confidence and they just don't seem to believe they're a good team anymore.
As another poster said, certain players were hiding which is not a good sign. The formation needs to change but more than anything that bunch of players need to be reminded they finished 6th and not 16th last year. We have a Milner shaped hole in the midfield but we ought to be able to cope better.
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Didn't think either were though Paul. And how many times Knight was allowed to wrestle Gabby without any comeback was a disgrace.
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I thought they were, but I do agree about Knight he was all over Gabby all the time.
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A shame we didn't give them Curtis Davis. We might have won!
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Didn't think either were though Paul. And how many times Knight was allowed to wrestle Gabby without any comeback was a disgrace.
Live neither of them looked like pens. On replays there would have been no arguments if given. Especially the Dunne one.
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Its been evident in every game so far this season, we lack 'muscle' in midfield, and inventiveness up front.
How you put that right before January is the problem.
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Gabby is turning into Heskey.
His movement is shocking.
Young needs to look up more, Ireland made some brilliant runs and found some great space today but Young just never looked up to find him.
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Ok, Mrs O. We'll be fighting relegation this season. I'll look forward to your revisionism in May.
ah the silly names again, brilliant.
I said it was a relegation style performance, OK.
I did not say we are relegation material, far from it, as my subsequent (look it up) comments highlighted.
I'm putting the onus for a very poor performance on to the manager KM, Not Houllier just in case you don't understand although why he didn't go down and sort the idiot out I know not :)
At least we managed a point in the fight for relegation
liar liar pants on fire. That's exactly what you said
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Knight was very heavy handed with Gabby today, but like my previous post... if Gabby actually just made runs across him or past him then Knight wouldn't stand a chance. Gabby just backed into him and never caused a threat.
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Surprised that Carew got a new top so quickly. Between Villa and Nike, I thought he'd be wearing threads into next month.
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Fucks sake martians could tell you that midfield wasn't working and wouldn't work against a 5 man midfield. If Ged picks three wingers on Wednesday I think I might have an anuerism. Some of these players deserve a right bloody kick up the arse.
From what I can gather Ged is not the type to mince his words. Thank the fucking lord for that.
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Yet again we look shit in the middle of the park. Petrov and Ireland were both shit and I put a whole heap of blame on them for how crap we were today.
Why was NRC dropped for Ireland? I heard some Man City (and Villa) fans saying we've got a player as good as Milner? When, in fact, it's been more like someone taking all your Clash CD's and giving you McFly instead. Milner shits all over him in terms of skill and determination, which he seems to lack any kind of.
Whoever said I don't know nothing about football because I said Petrov is shit needs to explain to me what it is I don't know. What a fucking dollop of a player he is. He does fuck all. He does it well though.
Thank goodness for Friedel (again).
I presume Dunne was taken off because he's fat?
Bring on Houllier!
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Poor team selection, poor formation, poor tactics, poor display. Quite simple.
The crux of it for me is along the lines of...
The Keeper has less experience than Guzan, they had a replacement cb in who went off early, and was replaced by another who has yet to play in the PL this season, and they never do well against us at VP.
Once again we failed to create chances or test the keeper. Regardless of whether they are first team players or reserves, we should be creating chances at home and putting teams under pressure rather than sitting back holding on for a draw.
Hopefully GH will get the midfield organised and playing with fight, creativity, movement and desire as this is what has been lacking for a long while now. Doing it for 15-25 minutes per game with no end product is not good enough.
Very frustrating.
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Positives - Downing played decent and went in for some tackles. Albrighton started well and Ireland showed glimpses when he was in correct positions. Biggest positive, thank fuck it's the end of the KMac era.
Negatives- Awful point and hanging on against Bolton at the end of the game is unacceptable. Dunne was in despicable shape and rightly hauled off. Petrov is over the hill full stop and should be dropped.
Ireland was a positive? Were you at the game? He was shit. 2 or 3 half-decent touches at most.
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Is Sid to be first team coach?That`ll sort the passing out.
And Robertson showed them all how to cross too, didn't he?
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Positives - Downing played decent and went in for some tackles. Albrighton started well and Ireland showed glimpses when he was in correct positions. Biggest positive, thank fuck it's the end of the KMac era.
Negatives- Awful point and hanging on against Bolton at the end of the game is unacceptable. Dunne was in despicable shape and rightly hauled off. Petrov is over the hill full stop and should be dropped.
Ireland was a positive? Were you at the game? He was shit. 2 or 3 half-decent touches at most.
He was very positive when he was in his natural position. Sadly, he'd clearly been given instructions to sit well back as cover for our three wingers.
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
Who would you put in for him though? Delph is injured. Reo? but then we lose the passing aspect and Petrov does more then most give him credit for. Just that without adequate help he gets overrun/ knackered out. First choice should be Reo / Petrov in partnership unless you want to play Osbourne or Salifou in there.
Petrov does nothing. Watch the game, then you will see he does nothing. Except go towards a player to tackle them, then decide against it and let them go past him. Oh, he can also pass the ball backwards. He's quite good at that.
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
Who would you put in for him though? Delph is injured. Reo? but then we lose the passing aspect and Petrov does more then most give him credit for. Just that without adequate help he gets overrun/ knackered out. First choice should be Reo / Petrov in partnership unless you want to play Osbourne or Salifou in there.
Petrov does nothing. Watch the game, then you will see he does nothing. Except go towards a player to tackle them, then decide against it and let them go past him. Oh, he can also pass the ball backwards. He's quite good at that.
Funny, my stream kept on packing in but I at least saw a good deep cross that led to a knockdown that Gabby mis-controlled and some good play with him involved that lead to the Luke Young chance. Its amazing how my stream either only worked when Petrov was doing something good or you only concentrate on the bad stuff and forget the positives.
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Very disappointing. Agree with many on here, the formation didn't suit the personnel we had on the pitch. Ireland looked lost, perhaps the fact we had four creative midfielders on the pitch was a factor in this. Ashley Young had a dreadful second half, he's not a central midfield playmaker and the sooner he's back on the left hand side the better. If I was Houllier I would go all out to buy a ball winning midfield player in January, we're crying out for one.
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I thought we we were in trouble when I saw Ireland in for Reo-Coker. The decision to leave him out was simply unfathomable. Until Houllier has the opportunity to buy a quality holding midfield player, he has to play that role.
Very lucky point but thankfully the end of a caretaker who was totally out of his depth.
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Totally inept display. In the second half I looked at the pitch saw ash young Albrighton and downing all on the pitch with feeble mr Ireland and just could not fathom why NRC was sitting on the bench
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That was hard to watch, midfield was sliced open at every opportunity by pissing Bolton, it was scary at times, thought that was Gabbys worst game in a Villa shirt, Knight absolutely owned him all game, the only plus point from a forgettably drab match was Youngs fantastic free kick
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The reason why gabby didn't have a good game was because the balls up to him were food and drink to zat knight and if he did manage to win a header there was nobody running onto the flick on. He was also pushed and pulled all over the place and how we didnt get more free kicks i'll never know, actually i do its because the ref was shit again!Ireland didn't get on the ball enough in the first half, but looked decent in the second and I agree that he should be pushed further forward to thread balls through to gabby.
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Looked great in the first 20 minutes but Bolton spotted the obvious and adapted. They know that if you close down a team with little movement then they revert to the long ball. It's so fecking simple, particularly when you know you can win everything in the air.
Pretty clueless all around. God,I hope Houllier takes our team back to basics and remind them how to play the bleeding game.
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Didn't think either were though Paul. And how many times Knight was allowed to wrestle Gabby without any comeback was a disgrace.
Blooming Charlie Ozz, have you seen the second incident yet (Dunne on Elmander) on the telly? About as blatant a penalty as you could wish to see I'm afraid, we got of of gaol with that one.
Completely wrong. Straight after the incident they show a close up of the ref who indicated shirt pulling or someone being pulled back. They then showed a replay and Elmander clearly pulls Dunne back by the arm as Dunne is winning the ball, forcing Dunne to go to ground - Elmander then falls over Dunne after barely touching dunne's feet. Even if Elmander hadnt pulled Dunne back i wouldn;t seeit as a penalty. That daft challenge by Warnock on Lee was another story though....
KMac once again looked totally out of his depth and tactically off course. At least he wont be in charge any more and there is enough talent in that team for a good manager to make something out of it.
Our much lauded CBs have been beaten in the air consistently in at least 3 of the last 4 games ( I didnt see the Everton game). Bolton could have had 4 and we were only saved by some good last ditch defending by Luke and Brad.
Some nice football at times, until we resorted to hoofing it, but we had the cutting edge of a spoon.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
Who would you put in for him though? Delph is injured. Reo? but then we lose the passing aspect and Petrov does more then most give him credit for. Just that without adequate help he gets overrun/ knackered out. First choice should be Reo / Petrov in partnership unless you want to play Osbourne or Salifou in there.
Petrov does nothing. Watch the game, then you will see he does nothing. Except go towards a player to tackle them, then decide against it and let them go past him. Oh, he can also pass the ball backwards. He's quite good at that.
Funny, my stream kept on packing in but I at least saw a good deep cross that led to a knockdown that Gabby mis-controlled and some good play with him involved that lead to the Luke Young chance. Its amazing how my stream either only worked when Petrov was doing something good or you only concentrate on the bad stuff and forget the positives.
Go and watch the game. Fuck the stream on your little screen.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
Not anti-Petrov by any means but a poster has mentioned putting Collins in front on the back four and there must be someone in the reserves. There's no pressure on us this season - we're not going for fourth place so let's throw caution to the winds and experiment.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
I hope you want to see us lose games 6-0 more often then. That's even weaker than today's shambolic midfield and that really is saying something.
And pray tell who is the second striker or are you playing a back five to counteract the piss weak midfield?
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Dreadful display.
Downing the shining light in the first half, Young tried, Gabby - not at the races, Petrov poor, Albrighton gave us what he can give us but no-one in the middle so why bther with him ?
All in all, the end of the KevMac era is over.'
Thank you Kev, welcome Gezza.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
And congratulations, we have now been overrun and lost our passing as well.
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The most galling thing ,once again, was the body language of the players after Bolton equalised.
Not one of them looked like they give a toss - they just trudged back to the centre. Petrov is no captain - he might be a thoroughly nice guy - but definitely not captain material. Now MON has gone I expect to see this rectified. #
NRC should not have been dropped, Warnock was woeful (again) , Dunne played like he had a hang over (par for the course) and Downing was inneffectual.
Great free kick by Ash - but when was the last time he took a bloke on and went past him (as Albrighton does for fun?)
Its going to be a long, hard, dismal season.
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Petrov seems incapable of making forward passes, abosulutely no penetration from the centre of the park. Needs addressing as the sale of two international midfielders has left us well short.
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Ireland has to be played in an advanced position. Petrov needs to be dropped, he is just a passenger now.
Who would you put in for him though? Delph is injured. Reo? but then we lose the passing aspect and Petrov does more then most give him credit for. Just that without adequate help he gets overrun/ knackered out. First choice should be Reo / Petrov in partnership unless you want to play Osbourne or Salifou in there.
Petrov does nothing. Watch the game, then you will see he does nothing. Except go towards a player to tackle them, then decide against it and let them go past him. Oh, he can also pass the ball backwards. He's quite good at that.
Funny, my stream kept on packing in but I at least saw a good deep cross that led to a knockdown that Gabby mis-controlled and some good play with him involved that lead to the Luke Young chance. Its amazing how my stream either only worked when Petrov was doing something good or you only concentrate on the bad stuff and forget the positives.
Go and watch the game. Fuck the stream on your little screen.
Give me the money for tickets and I will go. Unfortunately I can't afford Villa and the my rent at the same time.
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The midfield we need to play, hopefully sooner rather than later is...
Albrighton NRC Ireland Delph Young
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Till we get a better midfield enforcer NRC must start every game specially if we have Albrighton, Ash, Downing and Ireland all in there.
I think also Collins would do a good job in holding the midfield toagether.
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The most galling thing ,once again, was the body language of the players after Bolton equalised.
Not one of them looked like they give a toss - they just trudged back to the centre. Petrov is no captain - he might be a thoroughly nice guy - but definitely not captain material. Now MON has gone I expect to see this rectified. #
It's funny you say that. I took my nephew today and sat near the pitch. I remember thinking to myself how quiet the Villa team was and there appeared to be very little talking. I could hear the Bolton players throughout but our team seemed to have no one leading the troops.
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Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
And congratulations, we have now been overrun and lost our passing as well.
Suggesting Petrov is the only midfielder we have who can pass is ridiculous. NRC may not be a good passer but he would at least stop teams slicing though our midfield at will.
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Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
And congratulations, we have now been overrun and lost our passing as well.
Suggesting Petrov is the only midfielder we have who can pass is ridiculous. NRC may not be a good passer but he would at least stop teams slicing though our midfield at will.
He must be ace to stop people slicing and over-running a one man midfield like that. Hell the Price of Wales second XI could overrun that midfield. The only thing that would be worse was Petrov instead of Coker in there. If the last few games has taught us anything it is that a 4 man midfield (even one tougher than that) is utterly hopeless. Downing as a central player in a 2 man midfield...
I'd go
Petrov--Reo Coker--Ireland. Flanked by two from Albrighton, A. Young and Downing.
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I'll be shitting myself when we come across some quality opposition.
Why play Stephen Ireland so deep? On the couple of occassions that he did get forward, he looked like he could create something.
Why leave Albrighton on the left for so long? Both he and Downing simply disappeared from the game.
Why try to hoof the ball up to Gabby when Knight is at least 2 foot taller than him?
Why to to play football at break-neck speed all the time rather than having a little bit of patience? It's Bolton FFS! They're shit. Utter shit. We could have, and should have, been parked outside their penalty box for 80 minutes.
How K-Mac has done so well in the reserves I'll never know. I'll just have to conclude that other teams really don't give a flying fuck about reserve football. If he can't engineer a result - and I mean a very convincing result - against poor opposition like that, then he's no right to be anywhere near our first team.
I thought some of the pre-match predictions ( 5-0, 8-2) were a little bit optimistic but we should be able to completely bury teams like Bolton at home....without getting out of 2nd gear.
I'm fuming! And Houllier must be wondering what he's got himself into. If he's not yet signed his contract, I'm sure he'll be having doubts.
It looks as though you got the same impression watching on TV as I did from my seat in the top Witton end.
I fail to understand how NRC and Ireland were like for like swap? I really thought we were lucky to come away with a point ...and that is frightening when you think we were playing Bolton...yes BOLTON at HOME!
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
And congratulations, we have now been overrun and lost our passing as well.
Sidwell, NRC and even Osbourne can pass the ball backwards to a defender. It's not hard.
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Good God, that was shit. I'm dreading next Sunday.
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Good God, that was shit. I'm dreading next Sunday.
Yep! Me n'all.
I'm sitting right next to the segregtion :(
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Sidwell, NRC and even Osbourne can pass the ball backwards to a defender. It's not hard.
Because that is all you see Petrov doing isn't it. Ignore what he does positively and only see the pass backs and missed tackles.
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Sell your best player, not replace him and you struggle... as the Meerkat says- seeeeemples !!!!
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Houllier will still have the same problem, a bunch of mainly average players to work with,
up front Gabby, Heskey, Carew, all average at best
Midfield Downing, Petrov, NRC,Ireland all average with the eception of Ireland who at the moment is producing average stuff.
read the same for the defence,
for you guys that think Houllier will make a big difference, i dont think he can untill he changes the players.
for you guys that think its all down to the formation, thats the biggest myth, you can play average players in whatever system you want you get the same result
its not all doom and gloom, most premier teams are the same,
but the standard of play and the 'brighter future' of a more attractive, expansive more controlled possesion football is a million miles away,
we just dont have the right quality players for that
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Until January when we can rectify the matter, stick Sidwell and NRC in CM to look after the defence.
To be fair to them too, pre-season of last season they played a few times as a pair and seemed to do well together. I think they compliment each other well (some might say equally inept, but I don't). We need some more bite and energy, and we need to stop putting pressure on the backline.
Petrov has gone, the legs just aint there.
We also need to stop this 3 wingers in a team bollocks. And then adding Ireland to that mix as well is midfield suicide.
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Until January when we can rectify the matter, stick Sidwell and NRC in CM to look after the defence.
To be fair to them too, pre-season of last season they played a few times as a pair and seemed to do well together. I think they compliment each other well (some might say equally inept, but I don't). We need some more bite and energy, and we need to stop putting pressure on the backline.
Petrov has gone, the legs just aint there.
We also need to stop this 3 wingers in a team bollocks. And then adding Ireland to that mix as well is midfield suicide.
What has happened to Sidders? He hasn't made the bench in the last few games.
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He is Mr. Invisible. See image below.
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If GH utilises Ireland and our average players correctly, and gets them working as a team, then we should be potent enough to retain top 8 and push top 6 with a couple of quality signings in midfield and upfront.
Ireland has good vision and a great range of passing, and should be used as an attacking midfielder/playmaker to get the best out of him...if not then his talents are wasted. Play him behind Gabby/Carew in a 4231, and he will have options all around him to pick and choice passes orchestrating gameplay.
Downing/Albrighton shouldnt be on the pitch at the same time...make them bust a gut and switch them.
Whilst there are no other better options available until January, NRC has to start and do the same with Petrov/Sidwell.
Our strongest team has been posted numerous times on here, but for whatever reason KM didnt play it...hopefully GH will know how to get the best from this squad.
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Houllier will still have the same problem, a bunch of mainly average players to work with,
up front Gabby, Heskey, Carew, all average at best
Midfield Downing, Petrov, NRC,Ireland all average with the eception of Ireland who at the moment is producing average stuff.
read the same for the defence,
for you guys that think Houllier will make a big difference, i dont think he can untill he changes the players.
for you guys that think its all down to the formation, thats the biggest myth, you can play average players in whatever system you want you get the same result
its not all doom and gloom, most premier teams are the same,
but the standard of play and the 'brighter future' of a more attractive, expansive more controlled possesion football is a million miles away,
we just dont have the right quality players for that
i trhink you are right, even our so called better players are second tier PL players, better coaching and tactics should improve us but to major surgery to the squad is needed and that is going to take time.
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I think some of the slatting of Gabby on here is unjust. Knight should have been sent off in the first half for a challenge on him after he'd already been booked. The times when Gabby did get the ball he either had to try and wrestle the fella on his back or take it on his chest. The passing for him to run onto was abysmal.
Ireland clearly needs games, Warnock needs dropping (do we have another LB though?), Petrov I really fail to see what he gives us. Kev Mac made the change today bringing on Carwho and left Petrov with no legs left to do play as the holding midfielder. NRC should play for the foreseeable future with Sidwell or Bannan. Two from Young/Downing/Albrighton should play the wide positions. Luke Young has done well has has Collins considering he's also doing Fatboy Dunne's running.
Most importantly, the players need to get fit, and cut out the individual errors.
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Have to say that was really poor, typical this was my first home game of the season and I get a groundhog day draw against a middle of a table team.
Really poor tactics from Mac in the second half, fuming when he took Ireland off having not played him in his proper position again. He should be playing ten yards higher up the pitch just off Gabby. We saw the potential with that lovely run and shot he had in the second half.#
I would've brought NRC on for Albrighton who faded, moved Young back to the wing as he dosen't slot enough throughballs imo in the free role and had Ireland playing just off Gabby.
What we had was an incredibly lightweight midfield of Albrighton-Petrov-Young-Downing which couldn't win the ball so Bolton ended stronger. No good having Carew and Gabby upfront if you don't even have the balll.
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Houllier will still have the same problem, a bunch of mainly average players to work with,
up front Gabby, Heskey, Carew, all average at best
Midfield Downing, Petrov, NRC,Ireland all average with the eception of Ireland who at the moment is producing average stuff.
read the same for the defence,
for you guys that think Houllier will make a big difference, i dont think he can untill he changes the players.
for you guys that think its all down to the formation, thats the biggest myth, you can play average players in whatever system you want you get the same result
its not all doom and gloom, most premier teams are the same,
but the standard of play and the 'brighter future' of a more attractive, expansive more controlled possesion football is a million miles away,
we just dont have the right quality players for that
i trhink you are right, even our so called better players are second tier PL players, better coaching and tactics should improve us but to major surgery to the squad is needed and that is going to take time.
But then you would both seem to be making out that MON is a better manager then GH as he managed to get these average players to 6th and competing for fourth for most of the last two seasons.
I would expect GH to be able to keep us in the upper half if he gets the right combination of team playing and then can spend money in January.
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I think there's a couple of changes that would make us harder to beat and see us win a few more games for a start.
Carlos should start at CB. Dunno what was up with Dunney but his form is a problem at the minute. Long term I'd still go with a Dunney-Carlos combo and I think we look more defensively secure with Carlos somewhere in there.
I'd have NRC and Petrov sitting infront of the back 4.
I'd move Young back to the left. In the free role he can go long periods of the game without touching the ball and to me he dosen't get enough throughballs to the striker. Play Ireland there instead and then pick one from Downing/Albrighton.
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In a couple of years Albrighton will be the Milner of today with added ability to go past people. At the moment he is full of energy but a bit too frantic.
Ireland was very composed for his run and shot but totally lost playing deeper as he was totally ineffective trying to smother Bolton attacks.
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Houllier will still have the same problem, a bunch of mainly average players to work with,
up front Gabby, Heskey, Carew, all average at best
Midfield Downing, Petrov, NRC,Ireland all average with the eception of Ireland who at the moment is producing average stuff.
read the same for the defence,
for you guys that think Houllier will make a big difference, i dont think he can untill he changes the players.
for you guys that think its all down to the formation, thats the biggest myth, you can play average players in whatever system you want you get the same result
its not all doom and gloom, most premier teams are the same,
but the standard of play and the 'brighter future' of a more attractive, expansive more controlled possesion football is a million miles away,
we just dont have the right quality players for that
i trhink you are right, even our so called better players are second tier PL players, better coaching and tactics should improve us but to major surgery to the squad is needed and that is going to take time.
But then you would both seem to be making out that MON is a better manager then GH as he managed to get these average players to 6th and competing for fourth for most of the last two seasons.
I would expect GH to be able to keep us in the upper half if he gets the right combination of team playing and then can spend money in January.
i think MON would definitely get the most out of the players we have at the moment, because they are his players, bought to play the MON way
i dont know what to expect from Houllier yet, his footballing style seems to vary from long ball hoof football to defensive negative football to a controlled pass and move style, depending on who you speak to or read, so we'l just have to wait and see
i'm not calling for a return to MON by the way, i didnt like his style, but i do think it will take a bit of time to sort out the dross, and then we have still got to hope GH spends well, which he hasnt got a particular good track record of,
but we are Villa fans, so we have got to hope he comes good
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First, I don't often get on the refs back but he was bloody awful, did nothing to stop Knight wrestling Gabby and when Carew got his shirt ripped off.
Sooner GH starts the better, I hate this limbo shit. It was clear today their tactics & positional play was weak.
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Ah well it could be worse we could be Everton.Here's to the start of our season onwards and upwards :)
Oh and was chuffed Blose got put back in there place today they were getting far too cocky 8)
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Ok, got lucky on the pen now I have seen it. Point still remains about that halfwit in charge today. Never seen him have a fair game whoever he refs, and he is a bloody wind up merchant.
Our midfield is clearly the issue both going forward and defensively. I would like to think Cowans and McAllister, 2 of the finest midfielders of their generation, will be able to sort it out!!
Clearly playing 3 wingers doesn't work at all. Young is the best left winger in the country when he is in form there, so should play there IMO, and then Albrighton should play right. Downing then becomes either an option, or converted to a central midfield player in 3 man midfield with Ireland and Reo Coker. Petrov IMO is simply not up to it anymore, as nice a bloke as he may be. I would actually play Sidwell, Reo Coker and Ireland with Gabby up alone and then chose 2 from the 3 wingers now. Ireland and Sidwell will score given license, and we would be a lot more competitive in there.
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No organisation
No leadership
No desire
Without all 3 of those, you might as well wave the white flag at Molineux next week.
A shambles today.
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Bye Bye Kmac. Been the teams friend may be the reason you crap....
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A lot of the players look like they're not really bothered.
Richard Dunne was great for us last season, but he looks a fucking disgrace at the moment. I keep banging on about this, but for a professional footballer to be that overweight is absolutely not on.
Turning up to pre season training overweight is bad enough, still being overweight, what, six weeks later is beyond a joke.
Warnock seems to have totally gone to shit, Petrov looks like he's just past it, Gabby looks like he arrogantly assumes he'll play if fit, Carew looks like his off days are going to start to become most days, there are plenty of issues.
I think KM has dropped some gigantic clangers with tactics and formation. I really think that was a bullet dodged, thanks to Newcastle and Rapid. I have a growing feeling that the main reason the players wanted him to get the job was because they thought he'd be a soft touch.
GH has really got a job on his hands here. He needs to get them fit, focused and playing with something approaching a "shape". We've seen tantalising glimples of it this season, they haven't become shit players overnight, but he has a big job on his hands getting them fit and focused.
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Got to agree with a lot of that Paulie. Richard Dunne when fit is an excellent player, but he is in despicable shape. Petrov is over the hill and simply not good enough now. Gabby I'm not sure on to be honest, I thought the service he received today was atrocious. However we need a massive kick up the arse. Downing showed why he can be good today. In the first 20 mins we showed we can be good, but we need to pull our socks up. Houllier needs to stamp down his authority quickly and say to the players you're either in or you're out, no middle ground.
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No organisation
No leadership
No desire
Without all 3 of those, you might as well wave the white flag at Molineux next week.
Have to agree 100%---i,m afraid to say,also like to add----no direction,no penetration,no passion and no f*****g Idea!!!
A shambles today.
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Downing: lost and ineffective.
Ireland: Out of position. Gotta play behind the forward.
Warnock: Slow to the tackle and should of been a penalty.
Petrov. Just turned up.
Only Friedel done his job today.
Houllier has got some serious work to do on a team lacking any shape and direction ..........
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Harsh on Downing Walters, I thought he did well.
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I cannot believe we finished with one midfielder on the pitch, that being the total and utter shite Petrov.
We were class for 15 mins then it was unbelievable, we kept playing long balls up to Gabby who was being marked by Knight, WTF?
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Lots of concerns, it will need some serious beer goggles to suffer the next few months, with our midfield being so overun the defence will always struggle
Thank God Friedel was well on the button today
Gabby looks like he is heading the same way as the Moore brothers, so much pace but lacks a football brain.
Dunne clearly has an injury and is playing well below the standard he was last year, Warnock is looking worse every game I see him
As for Mike Dean , yet another inept Ref
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Only Friedel done his job today.
Rubbish!
Albrighton, when on the right, was having a great game.
Luke Young was epic.
Collins had to cater for the fact that Dunne is so fat he can't cover his area of responsibility.
Downing, as much as I just don't rate him, had a good game (until Albrighton came over to his side and then they both went missing).
Everything that was bad today was the fault of the manager. End of. you can't play those players together in that formation. Yes, Warnock seems to have lost the plot somewhat, yes Dunne is in shocking shape but against a team like Bolton, neither should have had a great deal to do defensively. With the talent we have, this should have been a slaughter! A SLAUGHTER!
After the first 20 mins, Bolton realised that we were massively soft in the middle and took advantage.
They adapted. Something Villa teams of the last 12 months can't seem to do.
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Stringing Petrov and bursting forward in the same sentence takes some doing. It is official, he is undroppable. If Houllier doesn't make that his first major decision I will be amazed.
I've said it before, and I think I will be saying it again, this is going to be a long, hard season.
And I asked earlier to someone else. Who should play in his place? Sidwell? Osbourne?
Midfield of A.Young Downing NRC Albrighton
Easy. Petrov can fuck off.
And congratulations, we have now been overrun and lost our passing as well.
Bar the West Ham game, we have been badly overrun by everyone anyway.
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Oh Dear Oh Dear
A poor performance but an expected poor performance
Petrov was excruciatingly Bad. He is an awful captain too. I would imagine he is waiting for MON to pop up somewhere and give him his next job.
I do not like Warnock he is always out of position and as for Dunne, I think his shirt would fit me.
At last Cuellar was Centre Half and won a few balls in the air, he should be a permanent fixture in the side.
Ashley young in that role is wasted he does not have an intelligent footballing brain, he needs to be on the wings running at defenders and crossing to the strikers.
See above for Agbonlahor but even he does not have the winger ability in his locker.
We are in a mess and this season is virtually over for us.
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I'm going to buck the trend here and say that although the result is disappointing I thought it was a good game, we played some great football in patches and deserved to go in to half time a few goals up. Albrighton was very good and there were some fine battles going on between him and Robinson, Zat & Gabby and Davies and Cullear, incidently has Davies ever had a bad game against us in all the years he's been there?
Minus points were that we didn't make nearly enough clear chances considering we had all of of our creative players on the field, Gabby played great with his back to goal but a little lacking in movement and Ireland was anonymous, he seemed to be playing in a positional straightjacket and didn't have any influence on the play. There is lot to come from him if GH can work out a way of accommodating him without getting overrun.
Fair play to Bolton, they did very well and Zat played out of his pie crust.
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I think it is wrong to blame the players too much for that yesterday. The way we set up the side is asking for trouble. Albrighton needs to be rested, Young put back out wide and Sidwell or Reo Coker bought in to support Ireland.
The substitution yesterday was about the most inane I have ever seen, it caused us to spend the last part of the game hanging on and but for Brad Freidel (who I keep reading on here isn't all that good) again keeping us in it we'd have lost
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I think it is wrong to blame the players too much for that yesterday.
I have to disagree they are highly paid professionals. I'll scapegoat Petrov if you like.. Explain why he was not to blame for continually passing backwards, slowing down the play, not passing to our own players and giving it away.
Also Richard Dunne is not fit enough to play.
Agbonlahor did not have the intelligence to "lose" Knight
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The substitution yesterday was about the most inane I have ever seen, it caused us to spend the last part of the game hanging on and but for Brad Freidel (who I keep reading on here isn't all that good) again keeping us in it we'd have lost
Notwithstanding the suspicion that it was done to appease a restless crowd, I thought Carew did well and certainly gave them some problems. Ireland looked very, very rusty and the introduction of NRC would have reeked of settling for a point.
One of the other issues of that starting XI is that it leaves you with no-one creative on the bench.
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The substitution yesterday was about the most inane I have ever seen, it caused us to spend the last part of the game hanging on and but for Brad Freidel (who I keep reading on here isn't all that good) again keeping us in it we'd have lost
Notwithstanding the suspicion that it was done to appease a restless crowd, I thought Carew did well and certainly gave them some problems. Ireland looked very, very rusty and the introduction of NRC would have reeked of settling for a point.
One of the other issues of that starting XI is that it leaves you with no-one creative on the bench.
No problem with putting Carew on, although like you I did think it was done to appease the crowd, but to leave us with a central midfield pair of Petrov and Young was ridiculous.
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I think it is wrong to blame the players too much for that yesterday.
I have to disagree they are highly paid professionals. I'll scapegoat Petrov if you like.. Explain why he was not to blame for continually passing backwards, slowing down the play, not passing to our own players and giving it away.
Also Richard Dunne is not fit enough to play.
Agbonlahor did not have the intelligence to "lose" Knight
What has how much they are paid got to do with it? If it was a one-off then you might have a point but we've tried that system several times now and it just isn't working with the players we have. It looks nice at times when we move the ball around but it's just too easy to play against.
I'd be extremely surprised if Houllier is as naive in his selections and formations.
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As Chris has pointed out, it was ludicrous to leave us with only one central midfielder (petrov) and shoving Young there, KMAC has looked totally out of his depth with the first team.
It was very much like the Stoke game, score a goal and then take your foot off the gas.
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Ireland didn't look interested to me. I put it down to him sulking because he wasn't being played in his favoured position.
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5 league games in and every single one of our goals has come from a midfielder or defender. Desperately need more firepower up front.
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Ireland didn't look interested to me. I put it down to him sulking because he wasn't being played in his favoured position.
I didn't think he was sulking he was just struggling in a position that he's not right for. If we want to get the best out of him then he has to be involved in the final third, as he showed with the run and shot in the second half he can be very dangerous when given the opportunity.
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well did I expect anything different when I saw the team .
Did well for 20 minutes , but the same old Villa always playing well for 20 minutes and then not having a bloody clue..
why NRC was dropped , thought he was one of the better players against Stoke..
Why Petrov gets a game ?
Why Ireland does not play in his natural position, we saw one glimpse of what he can do.
Why MON didnt play LY, he was one ( with Brad ) he earned his wage.
why Albrighton was switched to the left and why he was left on for long.
Warnock stop going in with those tackles in the box, you were very lucky with that non-penalty.
Dunne should never have started.
Ashley Young, great goal , but you have become so overated at the moment ,a footballer who thinks hes better than he actually is , sort it out please... Less bling and more Villa ....
Goodbye Kmac, thanks for stepping in but you havent got a clue..... MON hasnt possessed you has he?
NOW COME ON GH, AND SORT THIS MESS OUT.!!!!
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Ireland didn't look interested to me. I put it down to him sulking because he wasn't being played in his favoured position.
I think Ireland also likes the ball played to him quickly, whether there is an opponent near him or not. He then moves it first time into space where a colleague (should be) running into and moves so he can receive the return ball.
Unfortunately, we have players who stop the ball, look up, take a touch, look up again, then hoof it forward when Ireland is there waiting for the pass. The other players who have been here a bit longer now know this is what is going to happen so don't bother to make any movement whatsoever in an attempt to make space/receive the ball. They can do it, as shown for 15 minutes at Stoke and the first 20 minutes yesterday. However, whether it is lack of fitness or lack of mental determination, they always go back to the basics that would appear to have been drummed into them over the last 4 years. There is a decent side in there, and with persons like Gary Mc and Sid (who could both pass and move in their day) getting on their backs let's hope we can see 90 minutes of decent football rather than the few minutes here and there.
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Have to agree with a lot of the comments on here about yday.Could'nt understand the substitution, not only did it unbalance the team, but we also stopped playing football.
I like the look of Ireland tbh, good runs, and always looking to get goals.I don't think he was disinterested, just disillusioned.In the 1st half in particular he could have been played in 2 or 3 times with better awareness.
Thought Ashley was a bit greedy yday, and not partic v good, too many poor balls to Gabby, had time, but failed to put the right weight on the pass.
Agree we can't play Downing and Albrighton in the same team atm, i think Albrighton needs a rest anyway.
Gabby...felt sorry for him yday, no protection, limited supply, and poor supply when he got it.Does'nt look fit to me either.
Petrov, ok, but gone now.....Sidwell in for him?
LYoung , i thought in distribution was very poor yday, how many touches does he need?
We should be beating teams like Bolton at home, we should be annihialating defences with such players as Robinson, O'Brien and Knight.......not good enough.
KMac...thanks, but for me a bit naive sometimes.
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Go and watch the game. Fuck the stream on your little screen.
Oh dear. Not everyone can be a superfan like yourself.
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5 league games in and every single one of our goals has come from a midfielder or defender. Desperately need more firepower up front.
We have for years now, can't believe we've still not got a quality forward in over the past half dozen transfer windows.
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Clearly we have a number of players who are not conditioned enough to be playing 90 mins and struggle with the pace of the game, like John Terry said we are knackered after an hour and every team know's it.
Warnock,Dunne,Gabby,Petrov & Downing for starters,hopefully GH will see the problem in Midfield, get our back 4 to mark the opposition and find a striker because scoring goals will be a big problem for us.
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Ireland didn't look interested to me. I put it down to him sulking because he wasn't being played in his favoured position.
I don't think it's his game to have to come deep to get the ball. He made some brilliant runs into space in the 2nd half and Young only ever looks up at Gabby.
Ireland was frustrated as he he kicked the post twice after being totally unmarked and not even looked at.
I think once Delph is fit, he needs to be in the middle with NRC to do the leg work, whilst Ireland can support a striker. Hopefully a better performance from Gabby or a better striker.
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Go and watch the game. Fuck the stream on your little screen.
Oh dear. Not everyone can be a superfan like yourself.
Oh yeah, and where were you? (little winky man)
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The substitution yesterday was about the most inane I have ever seen, it caused us to spend the last part of the game hanging on and but for Brad Freidel (who I keep reading on here isn't all that good) again keeping us in it we'd have lost
Correct.. I really thought we were going to lose the match as soon as he reduced the midfield further by removing Ireland. We needed two NRC and John on Albrighton and Ireland off.
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I agree with fredm.
I thought Ireland looked lost yesterday and our midfield were switching positions so much they lost each other rather than the opposition.
We had Albrighton, Young, Downing and even Gabby playing on the left, with Gabby probably producing the best cross (unfortunately with only Albrighton in the middle).
They switched positions a lot but unfortunately the movement off the ball was rubbish, players wait for their team-mate to find space to pass them the ball rather than moving and creating space to receive it. We're exactly the same at throw-ins too and it's so frustrating to watch.
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Clearly we have a number of players who are not conditioned enough to be playing 90 mins and struggle with the pace of the game, like John Terry said we are knackered after an hour and every team know's it.
Its probably not a coincidence that the fitness guy left along with MON, I think.
Its worth pointing out that a recent poll on here about what changes you would like the manager to make, the most popular was 'better football', well we had our technically best XI players out there yesterday and I think it was the right game to try such an experiment, shame it didn't come off.
Maybe, just maybe, MON wasn't so tactically inept as he was often accused of?
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As folk on here have been indicating, yesterday's performance was a hell of a mess. I just want to go back to one thing that again I know has been mentioned by a number of posters but i just can't shake off and that is the contribution of Stilyan Petrov. The only aspect of his play that I can think of as a positive is that he is fairly comfortable and composed in possession.
Apart from that though....he offers nothing going forward. When was the last time you can remember a crisp, incisive forward pass from him. He has zero mobility, his passing range runs from slow and laboured passes to one side to slow and laboured passes to the other side. He slows up our play continually. He runs out of gas after 60 minutes. I mean, what is he there for?
For me, GH's first act should be to take the captaincy away from him so that the option of dropping him becomes viable. There's more wrong with Villa at the moment than Stilyan Petrov, of course, but his ineffectiveness and general anonymity must cost him his place soon surely?
Incidentally, looking at last year's 11 v Bolton in the 5-1 win the centre midfield pairing was Reo-Coker and Sidwell and I can remember them both having solid games. Again, to win in the premier league regularly you simply have to have a strong base in midfield. Luckily for us, with yesterday's powder puff selection in there, Bolton didn't have the wherewithall to take full advantage.
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The first 20 minutes we looked like team with a purpose. After the Bolton goal we really lost our momentum and were very lucky to get away with two straight forward penalty decisions and but for a couple of fine saves from Brad, we could easily have lost the game. A point was a fair result.
Dunne has to be dropped until he's fit again. His positioning for the Bolton goal was shocking. Instead of marking Davies, he was pulled completely out of position, ending up marking Stephen Ireland at the far post. Carlos deserves to start on Wednesday.
Collins had another solid game for us but he was always onto a loser having to cover for the AWOL Dunne.
Luke Young put in two superb blocks and overall had a good game but still needs to cut out his hoofs up field.
Warnock concerns me. Maybe he's not getting supportive cover on the left but he's not half the player he was when he first joined us.
Gabby apart from having a heavy touch on his one half decent chance, linked play up very well but we're still failing to get players into the box to be a real threat. Knight had a very good game and although lucky to stay on the pitch, was probably MOTM. Gabby needs better service and like any good striker, until he gets it, he's unlikely to play to his potential.
As other have mentioned, Ireland, despite his excellent passing is never going to be effective in such a deep position. He really needs to be more box to box if we are to see the best of him.
Petrov? I'm still undecided. I just wish he would stick to doing what he's good at rather than trying to play everywhere. He certainly missed a NRC alongside him. The whole team did.
Albrighton was having a fun time against Robinson so it made no sense to move him over to the left. I'm still not convinced he can play 90 minutes but he's improving as a player from the experience.
Downing seems to have grown in confidence these last few weeks, the important thing now is to get him settled in a position. That may be on the right at the expense of Albrighton; the two should be fighting it out for one shirt with one coming off the bench on 60 minutes.
Bringing on Carew made sense if we were going to get balls to the line and crosses in for him and Gabby. Floating the ball in against another big defence was never going to work, especially when he had little support in the area, something along with Gabby, Ireland could and should have been doing.
Finally, Ashley. He works so hard, he tries to create but he has to add to his game, it can't just be picking up the ball and running with it. He's good enough to be a great player, he just needs to learn that there is more than one way to hurt teams. It will be interesting to see what Houllier does with him. I hope the first thing he does it take him off corner duty.
Kevin Mac deserves our thanks. It was never going to be an easy time and I think yesterday he tried to go out with a bang. The problem was always going to be the disjointed midfield and up against a rough and tough Bolton side, where Bolton were always going to win ever ball in the air and boy did they like to play it up in the clouds. We'll need a lot more discipline if we're too beat strong, physical sides like Bolton, Blackburn, the Rags, Wolves etc, not to mention the top 5 teams. There's a very good group of players at Villa Park but it's going to take some serious work to get us playing as a team.
Just to add, after the debate last week about our lack of training of free kick/corners, it was great to see a goal that came straight of the fields of Bodymoor Heath. Well done all.
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I cannot understand why Ireland is played as part of a central two, where the boy has to go deeper and deeper to collect the ball and he’s too far away from the opposition penalty area to influence the game. The one time he did, it was off the back of a good run where he beat two players and his crafted shot was about as close as we got second half.
Ashley has to go back out onto the wing and Ireland needs to fill that spot behind Gabby.
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Just to add, after the debate last week about our lack of training of free kick/corners, it was great to see a goal that came straight of the fields of Bodymoor Heath. Well done all.
If a million Monkeys on a million type writers for a million years can write the works of Shakespeare, then I would suggest that Ash scoring direct from freekick is also a possibility occaisionally.
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Just to add, after the debate last week about our lack of training of free kick/corners, it was great to see a goal that came straight of the fields of Bodymoor Heath. Well done all.
If a million Monkeys on a million type writers for a million years can write the works of Shakespeare, then I would suggest that Ash scoring direct from freekick is also a possibility occaisionally.
It looks like a monkey just stole your log in. (winky)
It was a pre-planned free kick with Collins in the wall making the space for the shot.
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TBH I have only seen it on the small screen as I'm not a good enough fan, so did not notice the space creation. I have always wondered why refs never seem to give that as a foul against. Still, no guarantees that this was a training ground routine as the same thing has been tried before, normally with either an easy catch for the keeper or over the bar.
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Clearly we have a number of players who are not conditioned enough to be playing 90 mins and struggle with the pace of the game, like John Terry said we are knackered after an hour and every team know's it.
Its probably not a coincidence that the fitness guy left along with MON, I think.
Its worth pointing out that a recent poll on here about what changes you would like the manager to make, the most popular was 'better football', well we had our technically best XI players out there yesterday and I think it was the right game to try such an experiment, shame it didn't come off.
Maybe, just maybe, MON wasn't so tactically inept as he was often accused of?
I think it's more a case of KM being woefully out of his depth, to be honest. Some of his tactical changes and substitutions have been bewildering.
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TBH I have only seen it on the small screen as I'm not a good enough fan, so did not notice the space creation.
You're a better fan than I.
I've got a season ticket and opted not to go, and to spend the day with the Mrs instead.
On reflection, not the wrong decision.
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TBH I have only seen it on the small screen as I'm not a good enough fan, so did not notice the space creation.
You're a better fan than I.
I've got a season ticket and opted not to go, and to spend the day with the Mrs instead.
On reflection, not the wrong decision.
Not alone there Paulie - I too am a season ticket holder and took my lad to the Southport airshow - we got soaked but had a bloody good day . I must confess I didn`t miss going to the Villa one iota - neither did VCTM jnr.
Pretty much sums up how I feel about the Villa and football in general.
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It was a rather depressing second half but showed exactly why Kevin Mac should not have been given the job full time.
Hopefully Houllier can tightemn up the defence and provide us with a bit of organisation that we are lacking at the moment.
At least nobody will be guaranteed a start.
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TBH I have only seen it on the small screen as I'm not a good enough fan, so did not notice the space creation.
You're a better fan than I.
I've got a season ticket and opted not to go, and to spend the day with the Mrs instead.
On reflection, not the wrong decision.
Not alone there Paulie - I too am a season ticket holder and took my lad to the Southport airshow - we got soaked but had a bloody good day . I must confess I didn`t miss going to the Villa one iota - neither did VCTM jnr.
Pretty much sums up how I feel about the Villa and football in general.
Well piss off to an airplane forum then. <wink>
If we've got to suffer it then I don't see why you and Paulie should get out of it.
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Its worth pointing out that a recent poll on here about what changes you would like the manager to make, the most popular was 'better football', well we had our technically best XI players out there yesterday and I think it was the right game to try such an experiment, shame it didn't come off.
Maybe, just maybe, MON wasn't so tactically inept as he was often accused of?
Having technical, attacking players on the field does not make good football by itself. All of our technical players, bar Petrov, want to play high up the field, which means that if they all play we have no way of retaining possession deep. Look at what Man Utd did yesterday - for large periods of the game they had Liverpool at arms' length because they held the ball so well in the middle third.
K Mac and MON have very different tactical flaws: K Mac's just naive, whereas MON's actually from a different era.
Also, the game was a great example of the 4-4-2 bear-trap which managers still fall into. K Mac brought on the extra striker to try and make us more attacking, but all it did was introduce an enormous gap between the midfield and attacking lines, which made us more defensive as we kept giving the ball away. 4-4-2 is a defensive formation, not an attacking one - especially with our players.
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Having technical, attacking players on the field does not make good football by itself. All of our technical players, bar Petrov, want to play high up the field, which means that if they all play we have no way of retaining possession deep.
You're right, as was proved but the alternative was bringing on NRC and I'm not sure that would have helped with the ball retention and would have been seen as settling for a point. As I said my main point was that I thought it were the right game to try that line up and it might be worth persevering with if we can get the attacking midfielders supporting the forward quicker, him showing a lot more movement and we can stop surrendering posession so easily.