Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Archie on September 10, 2010, 11:25:50 AM
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For the second year in a row, courtesy of Mr O'Neill, we have been thrown out of Europe by an average Austrian team.
While I hope that Mr Houllier will help us to overcome this strange idyosyncrasy for Europe, I would like to stress which are the aspects of the European adventure that I'llmiss more.
1 - The pleasure to meet up your fellow Villa fans, in some cosy beerhouse of some smart European capital.
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/673/img6174a.jpg)
(in the pic, from right to left: Pauline, John, Howard and Frank)
(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6416/img6232y.jpg)
John is a true Villa's encyclopaedia, he can remember without any problem or effort the score of a Third Division game in 1971-72.
Frank is a great friend of us, he is always willing to give us a tip about a pub where to go for a couple of pre/post match couple of beers in Newcastle, in Prague, or whenever he followed the Villa in the last 30 years.
Legends! :D
2 - The possibility to discover tranquil and beautiful places in the cities where Villa play.
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3758/img6254j.jpg)
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3079/img6256.jpg)
(the biergarten are a must in Vienna)
3 - The emotion to wear proudly the claret and blue shirt in a stadium painted with the home team colours.
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/720/img6180o.jpg)
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5157/img0667y.jpg)
4 - The joy to breathe a bit of fresh air seeing our youngsters in action.
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/4067/img0696q.jpg)
5 - The possibility of sneaking into the tunnel to take some incredible pics just after the game.
(The Fonz)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2511/img0816t.jpg)
(Cjeran Clark)
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1371/img0814aw.jpg)
(Shaune Lawry)
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7963/img0815g.jpg)
(James Collins Jr)
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8648/img0818t.jpg)
6 - The pleasure of dawdling (if dawdling is the word that I search, not sure though) without hurry through the centre of a beautiful, old, aristocratic European Capital.
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5582/img6244s.jpg)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2918/img6250v.jpg)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5116/img6263h.jpg)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2929/img6262g.jpg)
8 - The satisfaction to visit the stadium and the museum of our opponents' bitter rivals, finding out a beautiful Aston Villa memorabilia.
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2158/img6303z.jpg)
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/82/img6290d.jpg)
Europe, I'll miss you! :-[
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Archie, do you know the story of Jimmy Hogan (the writer of the postcard)?
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Was it Jimmy who had our lads playing 'finger football' on that old Pathe news reel?
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Dave, he's before my time, I have read something on wikipedia, but if you have some further information I'd be much interested to know it, thanks.
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Excellent pictures, thanks Archie.
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He was the epitome of the saying: " A prophet is without honour in his own country." He began coaching on the Continent before World War One, was interned in Austria at the outbreak of hostilities, then forced to coach in Hungary. This led to him being regarded as a traitor in some quarters back home and he returned to coach in Austria and Germany, although he was also manager of Fulham for a while.
He became Villa manager in 1936 and was reckoned to have been putting together a potentially title-winning side when World War II started. Villa closed down almost immediately, and Jimmy was left unemployed, which left him very bitter as other clubs had continued to operate. After the war he coached Celtic, then returned during the fifties to coach the Villa youth side - which led to the Mercer Minors. In 1953 he tooka group of them to watch Hungary beat England at Wembley, as he knew they would be watching something special. His last public appearance was at the 1970 League Cup semi-final and he died in 1974, aged 91. Sir Matt Busby called him a football legend, while Eric Houghton described him as "A great man in every way."
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There was a good book on Jimmy Hogan published a few years ago. The cover was claret and blue. Written by Nornan Fox ( Ex Times journalist?)
Roy Hodgson of his day? better repsected abriad than in this country
fascinating story.
Jesus, just noticed it's going for £75 on Amazon. I'll have tio dig mine out and flog it
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There was a good book on Jimmy Hogan published a few years ago. The cover was claret and blue. Written by Nornan Fox ( Ex Times journalist?)
Roy Hodgson of his day? better repsected abriad than in this country
fascinating story
Similarities with William Garbutt 'The Father of Italian football.'
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That's a good story. It's easy to think that pan-European coaching is a modern thing.
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Agreed
We have also lost the chance to give all the youngsters a taste of European footie and vital experience
cheers MON
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As Gustav Sebes, the Hungarian coach of their Golden Team in the '50s, said: "when the story of our football is told, [Jimmy Hogan's] name should be spelled out in gold letters". Almost all of the crucial developments in the history of football can be dated back to Hogan, who as Dave says remains largely unknown in the UK despite his global significance. English football still isn't listening to Jimmy, which is funny because every time England lose to Italy, Spain, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Russia, Croatia, Portugal or indeed Hungary, it can be said to be indirectly because of Hogan's teaching; indeed, with Germany, our most constant conquerors, the link is strongest, as he is known as the father of German football among the coaching fraternity over there.
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Great photos Archie. That Jimmy Hogan postcard is priceless. Ironic it should appear the week we appoint a new manager. With all due respect to GH, Hogan is exactly the type of manager we need now and his methods would still make MON's look like they came from the Stone Age.
I'm sure Dave will fill you in on the details. There's a great chapter on Hogan in his book McMullan to O'Leary. Well worth a read.
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There was a good book on Jimmy Hogan published a few years ago. The cover was claret and blue. Written by Nornan Fox ( Ex Times journalist?)
Roy Hodgson of his day? better repsected abriad than in this country
fascinating story.
Jesus, just noticed it's going for £75 on Amazon. I'll have tio dig mine out and flog it
SEVENTY FIVE QUID???? Oh dear Lord.
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SEVENTY FIVE QUID? Oh dear Lord.
I know
mine was given to me by our mutual friend at The Times and I kept it in the bog while I read it. God knows what I've done with it
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I got mine at the joint launch with Malcolm Boyden's Brum's the Word, currently available used for a penny. I know where that one is, no bloody problem.
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As Gustav Sebes, the Hungarian coach of their Golden Team in the '50s, said: "when the story of our football is told, [Jimmy Hogan's] name should be spelled out in gold letters". Almost all of the crucial developments in the history of football can be dated back to Hogan, who as Dave says remains largely unknown in the UK despite his global significance. English football still isn't listening to Jimmy, which is funny because every time England lose to Italy, Spain, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Russia, Croatia, Portugal or indeed Hungary, it can be said to be indirectly because of Hogan's teaching; indeed, with Germany, our most constant conquerors, the link is strongest, as he is known as the father of German football among the coaching fraternity over there.
I'm facebooking that!
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Malcolm Boyden's books
Brum's The Word?
I get a mention in that book
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Malcolm Boyden's books
Brum's The Word?
I get a mention in that book
Things are suddenly starting to make sense. See edit.
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To this day, the Match of the Century as it is still a referred to, is a tribute to the work of Jimmy Mullen.
The famous Wembley game of 1953 was both a major strategic and tactical watershed in the sport, subject to acres of newsprint, informative scholarship and introspective self-analysis that has taken on a near mythical station in football lore — presumably being the 20th century's most influential match ever played in England.
After the match, Sándor Barcs, then president of the Hungarian Football Federation, said to the press, "Jimmy Hogan taught us everything we know about football."
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To this day, the Match of the Century as it is still a referred to, is a tribute to the work of Jimmy Mullen.
The famous Wembley game of 1953 was both a major strategic and tactical watershed in the sport, subject to acres of newsprint, informative scholarship and introspective self-analysis that has taken on a near mythical station in football lore — presumably being the 20th century's most influential match ever played in England.
After the match, Sándor Barcs, then president of the Hungarian Football Federation, said to the press, "Jimmy Hogan taught us everything we know about football."
Quick Friday quiz and yes, there is a prize. What else of great importance happened on the day Hungary beat England? PM me by 4pm.
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To this day, the Match of the Century as it is still a referred to, is a tribute to the work of Jimmy Mullen.
The famous Wembley game of 1953 was both a major strategic and tactical watershed in the sport, subject to acres of newsprint, informative scholarship and introspective self-analysis that has taken on a near mythical station in football lore — presumably being the 20th century's most influential match ever played in England.
After the match, Sándor Barcs, then president of the Hungarian Football Federation, said to the press, "Jimmy Hogan taught us everything we know about football."
Quick Friday quiz and yes, there is a prize. What else of great importance happened on the day Hungary beat England? PM me by 4pm.
PM sent: where's me prize?
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To this day, the Match of the Century as it is still a referred to, is a tribute to the work of Jimmy Mullen.
The famous Wembley game of 1953 was both a major strategic and tactical watershed in the sport, subject to acres of newsprint, informative scholarship and introspective self-analysis that has taken on a near mythical station in football lore — presumably being the 20th century's most influential match ever played in England.
After the match, Sándor Barcs, then president of the Hungarian Football Federation, said to the press, "Jimmy Hogan taught us everything we know about football."
Quick Friday quiz and yes, there is a prize. What else of great importance happened on the day Hungary beat England? PM me by 4pm.
PM sent: where's me prize?
Too slow Bren, I beat you to it although you'll probably still win as I can't see Dave coughing up the postage to send me my prize. (winky)
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To this day, the Match of the Century as it is still a referred to, is a tribute to the work of Jimmy Mullen.
The famous Wembley game of 1953 was both a major strategic and tactical watershed in the sport, subject to acres of newsprint, informative scholarship and introspective self-analysis that has taken on a near mythical station in football lore — presumably being the 20th century's most influential match ever played in England.
After the match, Sándor Barcs, then president of the Hungarian Football Federation, said to the press, "Jimmy Hogan taught us everything we know about football."
Quick Friday quiz and yes, there is a prize. What else of great importance happened on the day Hungary beat England? PM me by 4pm.
PM sent: where's me prize?
Too slow Bren, I beat you to it although you'll probably still win as I can't see Dave coughing up the postage to send me my prize. (winky)
Who's Jimmy Mullen?
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Nice pics Archie.
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And VCTM won the prize. It was, indeed, the day Brian Little was born.
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At least I got the right answer.
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Only the other day I was thinking why does a manager need to understand the importance of our rich history, can't we just focus on the present and future. Maybe I was getting bored with the historic club tag, something that maybe a millstone around our neck.
Seeing Archie's photo of the postcard is a timely reminder that we are a very special club and Jimmy Hogan was more special than most. It's just a shame he never gets the credit he deserves. Apart from being the architect behind the Match of the Century, it's also worth mentioning that six months later, the Hungarians gave England their biggest ever defeat to date, beating them 7-1.
Nice one Archie.
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Great pictures, Archie. I look forward to meeting you and other Latin Lions on our next European trip next season (and at Villa Park before that).
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Great pics archie , much as I don't like him
I don't blame mon so much for being out of Europe this year - kmac should carry the can for the team he picked- guzan is just totally out of his depth at that level .
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Good post Archie. Look forward to meeting Silvano, yourself and other Latin Lions when you come over for a game. Pub will be sorted as usual.
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The Jimmy Hogan story would make another interesting part of our (mythical) museum...
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Buon lavoro, Archie/Stefano.
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Where is the next Jimmy Hogan :) so we can trash Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Newcastle, Rapid Vienna, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, AC Milan and our neighbours.
It would be interesting to see what happens with football history if Adolf Hitler wasn't born. We probably be the Real Madrid. Would we beat Real Madrid in the 50s if Jimmy Hogan had been to Villa for 2 decades.
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Great photos Archie.
Oh, the memories!
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It would be interesting to see what happens with football history if Adolf Hitler wasn't born. We probably be the Real Madrid. Would we beat Real Madrid in the 50s if Jimmy Hogan had been to Villa for 2 decades.
Well, bit tenuous, but it is a nice thought that we were denied footballing dominance by Adolf Hitler. Almost Milligan-esque.
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Thank you Archie to post all these pictures! They will remember me forever the beautiful night in Vienna with our Villan friends from England!...This is the reason why I really will miss Europa League! I lost another occasion to see Aston Villa, maybe against an Italian Team!
Greeting from an Italian Villan!
Grazie Presidente!