Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on August 29, 2010, 08:14:16 PM
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He really is shit, isn't he.
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blah blah blah isn't it?
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As I said in the other thread, I didn’t think we got hold of the ball often enough in midfield and when we did, we weren’t high enough up the park to really utilise either wideman. Albrighton had one or two decent runs, but his finishing, final ball and defending was woeful. But you get that with kids and the same thing above applies to young Marc too.
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If Redknapp is after a winger, Stewart's his man. We could even do a straight swap for Keane. At least Keane would be of value to us for a season.
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Well he's had the all-important 'full pre season' so let's see what he can do. He still can't tackle though, that's clear.
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I wonder how he'd get on in the middle? Some posters on here have been saying they want Ash out wide again. There were times at Middlesboro when he absolutely bossed the game as the attacking midfielder, I probably should rethink that statement, Middlesboro went down...
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As I said in the other thread, I didn’t think we got hold of the ball often enough in midfield and when we did, we weren’t high enough up the park to really utilise either wideman. Albrighton had one or two decent runs, but his finishing, final ball and defending was woeful. But you get that with kids and the same thing above applies to young Marc too.
At least Albrighton isn't scared of attempting a tackle. Downing offers us very little at the moment.
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it breaks my heart to think Shitty got Johnson and we got that wuss for more money.
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I like Downing, but I don't think he's the right fit for us.
Hopefully he can have a decent ish season. There should be a fair few takers for a young England international like that.
Annoys me we didnt get Johnson for half the price though.
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It was 20 mins today before I realised he was on the pitch.
Not my most favourite player.
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He did one good bit of tracking today, but that was it.
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I said at the beginning of the season that I would give him till the end of the season before I judged him... but he is such a girl's blouse!
I used to play full-back and I would have loved to have marked him, he certainly wouldn't have come anywhere near me after our 'first' meeting, probably switching flanks to avoid that 'nasty' man!
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It was 20 mins today before I realised he was on the pitch.
Not my most favourite player.
said the same to my mate sat next to me. He's a waste of space at the moment.
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Annoys me we didnt get Johnson for half the price though.
I expect Southgate wanted to keep Johnson to help get Boro back in the Prem. 5 matches in he was sacked and Strachan then cashed in in January when Johnson had his head turned with a wage of whatever stupid money he is on. He is the better player, of that there is no doubt.
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Got it, he's the official pick on player for this season.
Cleary I'm off message but I thought had a reasonably good game today given the context that we were mostly giving a rearguard action.
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I refer to him as 'hamster balls', he really is gutless without the ball and not good enough when he has it.
The new Nigel Callaghan
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The bloke really is shit
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Downing is a luxury player. Games like today we can't afford to have him on the pitch. Games like West Ham the other week we can.
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Do you think it's the way he runs ?
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KMack should have replaced him at half time, it's a worry that he didn't.
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He was covering his full back well I thought. Didn't offer much going forward, but then we didn't as a side full stop really.
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Can't wait for him to leave
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To his credit he did show a great burst of speed getting back to defend and winning the ball in the final minutes. Can't fault his effort, he chases everything, it's just that he has such little to his game and the way we play at the moment, he's mainly a passenger. I'd prefer to see him and Albrighton fighting it out for one position in the side.
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I agree with Mark. I think Ireland and Petrov is a luxury too far in a pair. For now, that means we need to play NRC more often than not, and I'd let Downing and Albrighton compete for the other winger spot. I'd hope we could play in such a way as to enable Young to drift across the frontline still.
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Downing has sound technical ability but is lightweight. He reminds me of Thomas Hitz in that respect.
If I was manager I'd consider switching Ash back to left wing and give Ireland the role behind Carew.
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I will also give him untill the end of the season if he has not improved ship him out.
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Got it, he's the official pick on player for this season.
Cleary I'm off message but I thought had a reasonably good game today given the context that we were mostly giving a rearguard action.
He was the "pick on player" for much of last season too, but there's a reason for that - he's shite.
I don't agree that he had a decent game yesterday either (although admittedly I was watching on a dodgy feed!), when you are under the cosh you need your midfielders to provide an outlet, hold onto the ball and pick out a decent pass, this gives the defence some respite. Downing did none of this, when the ball came to him it almost invariably ended up with an Everton player two seconds later. This combined with his wussy tackling make him our worst regular starter, so I can understand why he is picked on.
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If Redknapp is after a winger, Stewart's his man.
Thanks Mark for a constructive suggestion. I am little bit annoyed that you are trying to "improve" our opposition but may be you are a very kind hearted soul!
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Got it, he's the official pick on player for this season.
Cleary I'm off message but I thought had a reasonably good game today given the context that we were mostly giving a rearguard action.
We have such a choice to pick on ;-)
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He frustrates the shit out of me - he bottles everything , my mate told me a story show true I dont know that MON gave him a real rolloking after a game about tackling and Downings replay to him was you scouted me for 6 months you should know I dont tackle !, anyway however true the story he does play like that. But the other aspect of his game that gets me wound up is his inability to make a simple pass on far more occasions that he should struggle
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If Redknapp is after a winger, Stewart's his man.
Thanks Mark for a constructive suggestion. I am little bit annoyed that you are trying to "improve" our opposition but may be you are a very kind hearted soul!
Well if you consider that the winger Redknapp is most interested in happens to be Ashley Young, the penny may drop. If you'd read the remaining part of my post, you would have seen it included a Downing - Keane swap and even though I am not keen on signing a 30 year old striker, his contribution to our cause over a season may be to our advantage. I would say that was pretty constructive.
Since losing Milner and with little to no chance of strengthening the midfield this window, we're going to have to have a team of lion hearts out there. The Newcastle game was the clearest example that our midfield are too soft and easily bullied. The are plenty of teams below us that will try and intimidate us in midfield, so the thought of a team containing Downing, Albrighton, Young and Ireland against the likes of Stoke, Bolton, Blackburn, the Rags etc sets the alarm bells ringing. We, like every other successful team, need to win the midfield battle first to allow our more talented players the opportunity to shine. At the moment, Downing is too much of a luxury and the only alternative is a return to hoof football, where we bypass the midfield completely and I think my opinion on that score are well documented on here.
Oh and yes, I am very much a kind hearted soul.. provided the Villa win.
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He was covering his full back well I thought. Didn't offer much going forward, but then we didn't as a side full stop really.
Am i right in thinking that the full back he was covering yesterday was Warnock, who gets caught out of position far too many times for my liking. Maybe that's the reson Kmac left him on.
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Got it, he's the official pick on player for this season.
Cleary I'm off message but I thought had a reasonably good game today given the context that we were mostly giving a rearguard action.
Go on Chris, admit it, you wanted to say "scapegoat" didn't you?
It's nonsense, he's just poor. You were one of the people bleating on about the benefit of a "full pre-season". Well he's had one, and he's still a £12m waste of money. Have you considered that one of the reasons it was such a rearguard action is that Downing may as well have not been on the pitch?
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Got it, he's the official pick on player for this season.
Cleary I'm off message but I thought had a reasonably good game today given the context that we were mostly giving a rearguard action.
Go on Chris, admit it, you wanted to say "scapegoat" didn't you?
It's nonsense, he's just poor. You were one of the people bleating on about the benefit of a "full pre-season". Well he's had one, and he's still a £12m waste of money. Have you considered that one of the reasons it was such a rearguard action is that Downing may as well have not been on the pitch?
No he isn't poor and no I wasn't bleating.
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One thing is true, no more blaming the lack of pre season as Risso said.
I didn't buy into that last season either mind.
I would have preferred Johnson to Downing.
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Yesterday was a day when we needed players who are good when the other team have a lot of the ball. That's why Downing had a poor game, when we have lots of the ball he can play but he just isn't good in the tackle or in tracking back or even in providing an outlet to relieve pressure the way Ash, Albrighton and Carew did.
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He always seems to be holding something back. Never seems to have the confidence to do what he should be doing with full conviction. In some ways like Heskey.
He's also a fanny, so defensively offers nothing.
He can't play in the middle, that's certain. We could carry him with two defensive midfielders but we don't have that. I also don't believe he'll ever be good enough to be a talisman for us. Where-as Ash or Ireland could run a game for us, Downing couldn't. That's why I can't see him in that 2nd striker role.
He is, has always been, and will only ever be, an okay winger. He's gonna have his uses, but the problem is, Martin O Neill went and foolishly paid 12 million pounds for him, whilst he still had a broken leg (if he'd been fit at the time, christ knows how much more he'd have cost).
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Needs to be in the reserves a few games to get his form back- use reocoker and petrov with Ireland as attacking midfielder behind gabby , and ask and marc out wide.
A spell in the sticks might be just the best thing for downing right now.
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OK, the general consensus is that he can't tackle - so why do some then suggest he should get a game in the middle where that fundamental flaw would be even more exposed?
I might, just, be able to cope with his inability to tackle if when in possession he took people on, made a telling pass or managed to maintain the momentum in an attack or period of possession - but he can't do any of those things.
I don't like it when players get to be scapegoats, but way to often he is a passenger.
As a team we need to keep the ball better, win the ball back quickly in midfield when not in possession, and add invention and a few goals from midfield. Downing does none of those things for us (effectively) so must surely make way for someone who can.
Wrong thread, but being lazy - new captain should be Collins (my opinion before Everton game) and Carlos needs to be alongside him at centre-half until Dunne re-discovers the form he showed in the first half of last season.
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Downing is clearly everyon'e least favourite player at the moment (understating the obvious)
apart from Davies&Beye
He's had a full pre-season under his belt and is presumably match fit-
His injury when O'Neill paid over the odds for him was not career threatening -
So where does that leave Stewart ?
Is he a confidence player - he scored on the opening day of the season and
hit the woodwork -
When things are going well for the team and we are winning Downing is
half decent, but when the chips are down and we need to battle he is a
passenger-
Squad player maybe but not in my starting line up
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His problem is inconsistency. No one says 'he is shit' when he has a good game rather oddly and he's had a few so he doesn't deserve to be called shit.
If he increases his confidence and consistency then he should play. As things stand he should not be as much of a guaranteed starter. For me Albrighton deserves a starting role ahead of him with Ash playing on the left.
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didnt think he was any good before we signed him, he's done nothing to change me of that oppinion,
i would say he is the worst of all MON signinings, for the money we payed, the money he's payed, and the value we will get back.
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i would say he is the worst of all MON signinings, for the money we payed, the money he's payed, and the value we will get back.
Curtis Davies? At least Downing has a bit of a reputation within the game, which would mean a reasonable offer being likely for him, rather than 2 / 3 million for davies.
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Nice pass on him,good vision, good shot....lacks bottle i'm afaraid.
Should be in the England set up, needs to grow a pair tbh.
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I wasn't at the game yesterday nor did I watch as I was in Wales but I listened on radio 5 live and they hammered him, said he was completely useless. Kept calling him the anonymous Stewart Downing
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Nice pass on him,good vision, good shot....lacks bottle i'm afaraid.
Should be in the England set up, needs to grow a pair tbh.
good passer. good vision. good at shooting !!!
its the Downing thread mate not Messi
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A luxury we can no longer afford to play from the start for me. I've always stuck by him thinking he just needs to have one decent game to get his confidence going and to become the player we saw for Boro against us frequently at VP. But that just hasn't materialised and we are not good enough as it is in midfield without carrying a virtual passenger. As options stand, I would much rather see an Ireland/NRC/Petrov central trio, Ash and Albrighton out wide and Gabby up top.
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I never rated him at Boro, didnt want us to sighn him, i have pointed out since day 1 that he is a very over rated ordinary footballer, i have seen the pre season arguement and never bought into that either- he dosent tackle, dosent get involved, dosent score, cant head the balll, his dead ball play is crap, he dosent beat a player and dosent create chances, every now and then he hits an ok pass or cross £12million bargain
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The comparison between him and Albrighton is one to consider, Marc is lightweight, does get pushed around and forgets at times his defensive duties. When he has the ball however he attacks the defender and is like an angry ant. Downing by comparison is Timid even with the ball at his feet, he lacks aggression and lets be honest is frightened of getting hurt.
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Needs to be in the reserves a few games to get his form back- use reocoker and petrov with Ireland as attacking midfielder behind gabby , and ask and marc out wide.
A spell in the sticks might be just the best thing for downing right now.
I don't think he is good enough for the reserves. Completely lacks bottle and means that we start every game down to 10 men.
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what always amazes me,. is how a manager ie MON/KMac,
can see Downing perform in is usually anonymous way, and then think 'yep, he deserves his place in the team again next week'
i mean what do they see ??? i just dont get it
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I wasn't at the game yesterday nor did I watch as I was in Wales but I listened on radio 5 live and they hammered him, said he was completely useless. Kept calling him the anonymous Stewart Downing
Yes I heard about this, it's par of the course for Greene to berate everything and everyone but when Sir Graham chips in too then you know a player is having a bad game.
I make it one very good game (West Ham) and two stinkers so far with Saturday's being the worst.
He must be aware himself that his level of recent form can't be continued if he wants to keep his place.
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I was there on Sunday and specifically watched Downing play. He is a wuss who can't/ won't tackle although he did a lot of tracking back. Couldn't quite see why he wasn't replaced however as the game went on as he didn't seem to be offering anything to the team. Surely time to play Ash on the left again?
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I was there on Sunday and specifically watched Downing play. He is a wuss who can't/ won't tackle although he did a lot of tracking back. Couldn't quite see why he wasn't replaced however as the game went on as he didn't seem to be offering anything to the team. Surely time to play Ash on the left again?
Agree totally, I don't like him in the free role
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The comparison between him and Albrighton is one to consider, Marc is lightweight, does get pushed around and forgets at times his defensive duties. When he has the ball however he attacks the defender and is like an angry ant. Downing by comparison is Timid even with the ball at his feet, he lacks aggression and lets be honest is frightened of getting hurt.
Angry Ant....well done! Bang on.
Difference is that Downing has had a few years top-flight experience and (too many) international caps.
Once Albrighton gets even a small fraction of the exposure to top level football that Downing has, there'll be no comparison.
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Every Villa fan would put Albrighton before Downing and that says it all ............
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And I am the same, and don't rate Downing that highly, but this is the season to judge him, you can't really go on last year, as he only played half a season.
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I would agree with most of the sentiment here. For 70 minutes of the Everton game he was anonymous. However, he really did work hard in those last 20 minutes when our backs were to the wall, can't fault him for that. He needs to find form in the offensive 3rd, though.
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This isn't about Downing so much as the following shockingly inaccurate piece currently on the BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/8992982.stm):
Downing, 26, joined Villa from Middlesbrough in July 2009 but featured in only 25 league games in his debut season at the club under then manager Martin O'Neill.
It has been a different story under MacDonald, however, with the England winger playing every minute of Villa's opening three league fixtures this term.
The implication is clearly that Downing wasn't a favourite of O'Neill's and didn't play an awful lot, but is thriving under MacDonald (whose name they have thankfully managed to spell correctly for once). Clearly the 'author' is blissfully unaware or Downing's rehabilitation from his foot injury of MON's continued perseverance with him when many were pleading for him to be rested. OK, dropped.
I reckon that funny foreign website people were quoting last week makes about as much sense as the BBC sometimes.
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New manager, new start? See if Houllier can get Downing performance. He won't tolerate a fanny that's for sure. Once GH gets into the role properly, I hope we see Downing perform. He's technically a pretty good player, so I'd guess Houllier will see something in him.
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Cracking goal in a very encouraging first half for the wussmeister.
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Cracking player. Never doubted him.
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Aha! The real Stewart Downing.
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I never rated him at Boro, didnt want us to sighn him, i have pointed out since day 1 that he is a very over rated ordinary footballer, i have seen the pre season arguement and never bought into that either- he dosent tackle, dosent get involved, dosent score, cant head the balll, his dead ball play is crap, he dosent beat a player and dosent create chances, every now and then he hits an ok pass or cross £12million bargain
not a bad header last night........and the one at Pompey.........
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I thought he did well last night, OK he's not a ball winner by any stretch but good good and was a threat to them all night. What about NRC what the hell did he do??? Apart from not track his man for their first goal.
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Downing was probably our best player last night. Won't get carried away - it's the least we can expect after nearly a season - but attacked positively, got stuck into the tackle, crossed well and scored a belting goal. More of this sort of thing.
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I've been impressed by Downing throughout the start of this season as a whole. Seems more aware of his team role, has a bit of flair about him again.
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He was good against West Ham and excellent alst night. One in the eye for the haters.
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I'm not a Downing hater as I do like him, but I'm clearly in the minority about last night. Great finish for the goal, but apart from that I thought he was only okay.
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He took on his full back and looked good when he came inside as well. He's also one of the few players we have who is willing to actually shoot at goal.
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Agreed about his shooting but I don't remember taking his man on down the line save for that 10 minute spell at the end of the first half when we were tearing into them.
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There was a cracking bit of interplay between Downing and Ashley Young late in the first half following a short corner. Hope they can do this more often.
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He did it for most of the game I felt. Both him and Albrighton murdered their full backs.
Christ how the fuck did we lose that game to that shower of shite?
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Because we didn't take our chances and Stoke didn't know when they were beaten.
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Or we didn't actually create that many chances, second half especially, and they were always going to get one at some point.
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Game should have been wrapped up in the first half and NRC should have burried his chance in the second. BBut Downing played well.
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Ash missed a guilt edged chance to make it 2-0 with a header. Fantastic cross from Gabby for that one.
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Everytime he scores he looks like a different player -for a bit.
You hope each time, this could be it, the liftoff he needs
But then he goes missing again in the next match.
Good player technically (aside from being so reliant on his left peg), but it's not enough if you don't have heart and a bit of grit to your game.
Ashley Young is no powerhouse, yet he doesn't mind putting a foot in when required and doing the uglier stuff. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for Stewpot.
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so downing has 1 good game in 30 odd great
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Downing was decent last night. Got forward, took on players and even did some good tackling back.
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Yeah he was ok last night , ok against the like of Stoke and West ham.. Lets see him doing it regular and lets see him do it against
the like of Chelsea, Manure and Arse... Great header last nigh thou , better than AY's effort ..
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Yes, it was a good header; all the more so because I seem to remember him missing a few back post headers last season.
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I've been impressed by Downing throughout the start of this season as a whole. Seems more aware of his team role, has a bit of flair about him again.
I think Downing has a good "football brain" and looks to use the ball. Hopefully when Ireland is integrated into the team the two of them will hit it off and we will see some nice on the deck movement of the ball.
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I have not been a great admirer of Downing. He is technically a good player. If Houllier can bring some "anger" and aggression to his game which he has shown in small doses. He really could be a very good member of the team. A couple more goals in the next few games and his confidence will improve ....................
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I think a major part of the reason he 'wussed' out of tackles last season is that he was scared that one blow would fuck his foot up again and it's taken him a while to get his confidence back. Hopefully it's back now.
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so downing has 1 good game in 30 odd great
Has he played 30 odd yet ?
I thought he showed how good at controlling a game he can be, so lets hope he moves on from there.
I watched him several times at Bora and he can be some player
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Downing certainly never "wussed out" during this game.
I was impressed in the second half when he was blatantly fouled out on the right wing (forget by who) but nothing was given. He got up and chased the played before putting in a perfectly timed challenge to will the ball back.
Very impressive game for our Stu IMO
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so downing has 1 good game in 30 odd great
Has he played 30 odd yet ?
No, 40 odd.
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so downing has 1 good game in 30 odd great
Has he played 30 odd yet ?
No, 40 odd.
Heavens, considering he was out for half of a season and we've only played 4 this that's good going
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so downing has 1 good game in 30 odd great
No, but stick with your myopia.
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Credit where it is due, thought he was excellent against Stoke. Humble pie eaten. Well a small slice. Needs to keep it up, starting this weekend.
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For the record it was that ****** Pennat who fouled him and who he got up, chased down and slid through.
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I noticed the improvement. Think he had found his courage and confident.
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I've noticed improvement throughout the season, actually (Newcastle excepted where everyone was appalling). Maybe not playing in the 4-4-2 is helping him, as he doesn't have to chase up and down quite so frequently.
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For the record it was that c*** Pennat who fouled him and who he got up, chased down and slid through.
Loved that.
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He's the definition of a confidence player isn't he?
Hopefully he can build up some momentum as there is definitely a good player in there. A good man-manager should be able to get the best out of him I think.
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Really needs to be pulled to one side and told all the good things in his game. And how he has to develop a more "tigerish" approach and concentration ...................
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A massive improvement, but please keep him on the left.
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I noticed the improvement. Think he had found his courage and confident.
were of to see the Wizard....