Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Russ aka Big Nose on August 18, 2010, 11:01:18 AM
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I don't hate Citeh, but I hate some of what they do.
They are not the basket-case with loyal fans they once were, but their wealth affords them power and (presently) I see no sense of responsibility within their club to do other than further their own interests, even at the expense of what is good (or bad) for football.
Garry Cook and his sidekick Marwood could create a mountain of problems in the next few years.
Yesterday offered a few good examples. A bright young talent developed by Citeh was frozen out because they have the wealth to upgrade and their treatment of him was very poor.
They also loaned out Bellamy - one of their best performers last year. Nice for him to do a season at his home town club, but also very convenient for Citeh. They did not want to sell or loan him to Spurs, Villa, Everton or another challenger to protect their interests even beyond what the player can do for their side.
Fair enough, but they are funding his move to Cardiff to the tune of £2.5m (BBC report). Cardiff are a club in a financial mess and they owe other clubs, like Motherwell, money that might keep them afloat or aid their development.
So Cardiff have a player paid for by Citeh that might get them into the Premier League. How do other Championship sides feel about their competition being distorted by the intervention of a club effectively funding the major part of Cardiff's campaign this season?
Could other clubs sue Cardiff because of the unfair advantage they have on non-commercial terms and isn't it against any sense of fair competition as well?
Citeh will also (probably) mothball or place good players - Given, RSC and others - at clubs that are no threat - perhaps legitimate? - but when they fund it to the extent they have for Bellamy it is another matter and something that fundamentally undermines competition in football.
Reduce competition and you lose what football (and sport) is about, but I suspect Cook and Marwood think it is about 'content' and 'new markets'.
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My concern is with the Bellamy thing. Championship clubs have at times had good players - anyone remember Hoddle as Swindon player manager? he did contribute on the field, so you could argue they had an unfair advantage. But the issue for me is not that Cardiff has Bellamy, but that they wouldn't sanction a move to a club where he could hurt them. If you take that to it's nect logical level, what's to stop them signing someone like Gabby to nobble us, then loaning him out to a Championship club as they have no intention of playing him? Buying who they want is one thing, trying to manipulate the transfer market to the detriment of their rivals is quite another.
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It was the little skit on the inside cover of H&V that made me realise what's bad for football.
The richest clubs get richer, their position at the top becomes unassailable, the games become boring and predictable.
Man City are trying to buy their way in, and maybe they'll succeed and maybe they won't, but nothing will change the fact that too few teams are playing to win anything.
And meanwhile Sky are having to shout louder and louder about how exciting and unpredictable it all is, using Cantona as shorthand for offbeat, original, startling entertainment.
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Very. That said, if they keep giving us their best players on the cheap, fill yer boots ye blue moon goons.
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It would have benefitted Citeh way more if they'd sent Bellamy to Fulham. He couldn't play against them, he wouldn't be playing for a divisional rival, but he would be able to play and score against us, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton and Arsenal.
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`Craig Bellamy does not play for shit clubs'
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You know how vulgar it's all becoming when you see SSN interviewing some bloke after Blackburn and within 5 seconds are asking him how much money there will be for transfers. Nothing about whether he's fit to run a football club or whatever.
And then we have that fake SSN "transfer"advert about moving away from freeview or something with that shouty scotch twat bellowing at the camera about how good they'll look in HD. Excuse me? You'll still look like an emaciated donkey scrotum, just in sickeningly clear definition.
But everything is transfers this and that. Money money money. Just fuck off!
As for Man City, I don't hold them to blame but they're the evolution of all this bollocks. The most ludicrous outcome.
Money and how it is affecting the game is the problem. It doesnt really matter who has it.
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You know how vulgar it's all becoming when you see SSN interviewing some bloke after Blackburn and within 5 seconds are asking him how much money there will be for transfers. Nothing about whether he's fit to run a football club or whatever.
And then we have that fake SSN "transfer"advert about moving away from freeview or something with that shouty scotch twat bellowing at the camera about how good they'll look in HD. Excuse me? You'll still look like an emaciated donkey scrotum, just in sickeningly clear definition.
But everything is transfers this and that. Money money money. Just fuck off!
As for Man City, I don't hold them to blame but they're the evolution of all this bollocks. The most ludicrous outcome.
Money and how it is affecting the game is the problem. It doesnt really matter who has it.
Agreed but in reality there is not a football fan in the country that did not wish it was "their "club spending like City - we all did when Randy rocked up to VP
Who would have thought having a billionairre own us and we still could not compete at the highest level.
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The Premier League years have seen success "bought" in two ways.
Firstly there is the long-term consistent management of Wenger and Fergie, albeit in the case of the latter with as much money to spend as anyone else, at least pre-the Glazers.
Secondly there is rich men throwing money about: first Blackburn, then Chelsea and now Man City.
What has changed is the scale of the spend: Jack Walker was the local man made good, Abramovich is the overseas owner with self-made billions, but City are in a totally different league: they're effectively spending sovereign wealth.
I really hope that they f*ck it up, but the reality is that the money will keep being spent and eventually they'll assemble a group of galácticos (and a strong enough manager to gel them) who will certainly quality for the Champions League, possibly even win the Premier League.
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You know how vulgar it's all becoming when you see SSN interviewing some bloke after Blackburn and within 5 seconds are asking him how much money there will be for transfers. Nothing about whether he's fit to run a football club or whatever.
And then we have that fake SSN "transfer"advert about moving away from freeview or something with that shouty scotch twat bellowing at the camera about how good they'll look in HD. Excuse me? You'll still look like an emaciated donkey scrotum, just in sickeningly clear definition.
But everything is transfers this and that. Money money money. Just fuck off!
As for Man City, I don't hold them to blame but they're the evolution of all this bollocks. The most ludicrous outcome.
Money and how it is affecting the game is the problem. It doesnt really matter who has it.
Agreed but in reality there is not a football fan in the country that did not wish it was "their "club spending like City - we all did when Randy rocked up to VP
Who would have thought having a billionairre own us and we still could not compete at the highest level.
I don't. I hate it, the vulgarity of the thing. I was a little uncomfortable with the way we'd spend large money on average players in the earlier Randy/MON days (not least because they were average players), but it was nothing like the scale of Man City. They've spent 150% of their turnover on transfers alone this summer, and that's not including the wages. I'm all for a bit of competition and investment and so forth, but that's disgusting.
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Money talks in football and thats always been the case. Its on a much much larger scale now.
How bad are the way they are doing things at City ?
Put it this way, if I had untold wealth and owned Villa the main thing I would do is it would be maximum £5 to get in whatever the game and a £1 for kids, season tickets would be about £80. With the crowds that attracted, I would be building to a 70,000 plus capacity which on these prices you would easily fill. This way virtually nobody who followed Villa would be excluded from being able to come to games because of lack of money and you would be building up a new massive base of lifelong supporters. Look at what they do at Bradford City in this respect, albeit on a smaller scale.
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I can put my hand on my heart and say for definite that I DO NOT WISH IT WAS US.
Just like I wouldnt swap my actual life for that of Mikey Carroll, the chav bin man who won the lottery and spunked it all on cocaine and gold necklaces.
Yeah, I'd take the millions, just as I'd take the multi-billionaire owner, but I'd live my life with a lot more class and dignity and I'd want my football club to act the same way.
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If I was a multi billionaire and I wanted to take Villa to the next level (not that I would ever give a penny of my money to mercenaries and their parasitic agents) I would do it gradually.
I’d start from the bottom and build the club up with decent foundations.
1 – start with a ten year plan to win the league, not get 4th place. I’m a billionaire I dont need the Champs League money I want trophies. Money comes with success anyway.
2 – Invest in the world’s finest training facilities and open it up to the public so they can see their team training. Footballers only train for about 8 hours per week so I’d also share the facilities with local schools and other sports clubs from the area. My club would be part of the community.
3 – Recruit the best youth team coaches I could get and start to build an academy of local kids. Not go around hoovering up the best talent from academy’s across Europe. I’d start them young and get my coaches to teach them how to pass and move and use their brains. Any youth team players who got too big for their boots or got into trouble would be out. No matter how good they were. There would be a Villa philosophy of good morals and players would have an appreciation of their fortunate position. All players would be expected to take and pass GCSEs and A-levels (or equivalent) and any players not making it as pros would be supported in their search for other careers (possibly in other sports).
4 – Employ a manager with character and morals (a Roy Hodgson type) rather than a superstar name figure poached from a rival club in an unseemly tug of war. Then give him a 5 year contract and tell him he has 5 years to get it right. Not 6 months and then sack him when we lose a couple of games. I’d also give him complete freedom in footballing matters and keep my nose out of his business (except for point 5)
5 – I’d sanction the signing of no more than 3 big name players per season. You can’t build a brand new team each year and expect them to win anything. I’d want continuity. I have a ten year plan anyway so am in no hurry. I’d also make it clear to my manager that I value the inclusion of home grown talent who are brought up with the Villa philosophy. Any player caught doing a John Terry or getting into trouble with police would be sacked. No matter who they are. I’d conduct my transfers within the letter and spirit of the rules. No poaching or tapping up. And if a club thought they could take me for a ride because I was loaded then they could forget it.
6 – Every member of staff from the tea lady up to the star striker would be expected to give something back to the local community. We’d provide support to charities, give discounts to local schoolchildren and members of the armed forces. We’d have a different local charity as our shirt sponsor every two years (not an original idea, I admit) and the players would be expected to know and understand about the lives of local fans.
7 – I’d build the stadium up to cater for 55-60k fans and then I’d sell tickets at pre-Sky prices. I’d keep the same kit for two seasons rather than replace it every year like most clubs do. I’d sell real ale and quality food in my stadium at normal prices. And I’d let every paying adult bring a child under 10 in for free. As a billionaire I wouldnt be interested in squeezing my fans for every last penny. I’d just want a full stadium each week and happy fans.
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It's the way they've gone about things that gets on my tits. They mucked around with Everton last summer,us this summer,who's to say it won't be Spurs or Liverpool next summer.
Also as they're not in the Champions League yet,they sign players on obscene wages( Viera on £100 grand or so Toure on £200 grand a week)at a time when the rest of the league are trying to tighten their belts. Its not sour grapes as football isn't just about the wealth of the team and players and buying trophies,it worries me that football in general will be worse off in a year or two.
But then again,if it sells more T.V games in Asia that tool Scudamore won't give a monkeys.
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I can put my hand on my heart and say for definite that I DO NOT WISH IT WAS US.
Just like I wouldnt swap my actual life for that of Mikey Carroll, the chav bin man who won the lottery and spunked it all on cocaine and gold necklaces.
Yeah, I'd take the millions, just as I'd take the multi-billionaire owner, but I'd live my life with a lot more class and dignity and I'd want my football club to act the same way.
Mate from my hill of moral highground i totally agree with you but in reality they will eventually win everything and in football being morally correct means jack shit to players - its money and trophies that count
100% agree with you about building a standium and subsidising the entrance fees
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Money and how it is affecting the game is the problem. It doesnt really matter who has it.
100% spot on there Maz, bring on the football crunch!
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I'll put the kettle on.
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I don't get what they didn't just do it the proper way either.
They'd be much more likable, people would still talk about them and surely that would benefit them in terms of marketing...
They'd still have the billions and have spent a fair whack, and I bet they'd be a lot closer to the top 4 than they are currently.
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I can put my hand on my heart and say for definite that I DO NOT WISH IT WAS US.
Just like I wouldnt swap my actual life for that of Mikey Carroll, the chav bin man who won the lottery and spunked it all on cocaine and gold necklaces.
Yeah, I'd take the millions, just as I'd take the multi-billionaire owner, but I'd live my life with a lot more class and dignity and I'd want my football club to act the same way.
Mate from my hill of moral highground i totally agree with you but in reality they will eventually win everything and in football being morally correct means jack shit to players - its money and trophies that count
100% agree with you about building a standium and subsidising the entrance fees
Maybe a better example is if I won the lottery and suddenly found myself with a bevvy of attractive young women wanting to be with me. Would I leave my girlfriend and marry a bimbo blonde who, deep down I knew was only with me because of money, or would I understand what was really important in life and tell the clunge to do one?
If trophies are literally the only things that matter then I'm out. And, for that matter so are 88 of the 92 league clubs in this country. What's the point?
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They are a symptom, not the cause of what's bad. Football sold it's soul a long time ago.
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they are a club which is playing a real life computer football manager game with the cheats code for unlimited funds.
no matter how many trophies they may win, they will always still be Manchester City.
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Agreed Lee, and it's the same argument about defensive football being ok because it "gets results". If you're not going to win the league, the least you could do for your fans is provide them with a bit of excitement, otherwise what's the point of you? That's what really pisses me off about Allardyce.
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I just think the whole buying process is a making a mockery of orther clubs the way they identify someone and they get him at all cost's if it was not for that people would have respect for them.
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The recklessness with which they're going about it is stunning. Even Chelsea, at the height of their big spending, showed more restraint and at least a modicum of common sense.
To see Man City binning players like Bellamy, Ireland, RSC (and in his case, what, a year after they bought him) is unbelievable.
I wonder how long Lescott is going to get a game for, all of a year after they paid 24 million pounds for him. Not to mention Barry.
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Gareth Barry will have a lot of time to sit on his arse and eat custard creams
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They are a symptom, not the cause of what's bad. Football sold it's soul a long time ago.
Yeah you're right mate,1992 wasn't it?!
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Maybe a break-away league would be a good idea. Based on spending as well as league position. For the consistently good teams - Arse, Man Ure, Barcelona etc, they can have a league that they 'belong in', one where they are tested week in /out, but also those that spend obscene ammounts in order to be part of the top teams - if they want to be the best then they should expect to be put up against them.
This would also limit the spending of those that don't want to be part of it - Villa have a huge wealth behind them but choose to be sensible with it.
I don't want to be part of that throw-away approach to a game that people have invested things far more important than money into - time, passion, pride and in many cases, a large part of thier life. The game is more enjoyable when you treat every game as important as the last, and don't go out for the best new youngster solely for the purpose depriving the competition of them.
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Yes it's vulgar, yes it's bad for football and the odds are high it will work and Man City will win more trophies in the next 5 years than we've won in the last 25.
As is often mentioned on here (especially when 4th place is talked about), winning trophies is all that matters, so bollocks to the small time mentality of at least our club has class etc. That is no different to Albion banging on about how loud their fans are as the 6th goal is twatted past them.
I'm 40 and would like to see us win a few things, actually i'd like to see us winning fuggin loads and tbh I wouldn't care how we did it. Obviously i'd prefer we do it with class and honour, but in modern football, it's unlikely.
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Then just think what it must be like to be ( say) a Bolton fan ( pick one from 14 clubs to be fair).
You could argue that Man Citeh have put money into the game, but at what cost ?
The cost I reckon is the removal of the heart and soul of the game and made it a bit of a laughing stock.
If you take Rugby for instance, I was at Worcester Warriors for a game last season - they have a cap of £2 million in wages across the whole squad.
Something like this ought to be implemented in football and sooner rather than later before it gets even worse.
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Money bags Man City are the most loathed team in the Premier League by far. I find there constant waste of money disgusting... spending £28 million on Ballotelli... who is what, age 20?! He's only come through Inter's system recently and has looked like a good player, but still, they have paid £28 MILLION who spent more than half his time coming off from the bench. He hasn't proved anything yet, all he's proved is that he's young and has talent, coming off the bench and scoring a few goals does not justify that sort of hype he is getting right now, let alone his absurd transfer fee.
Why do they need to buy all these players they won't use... it just seems they'll buy anyone 'good' who is available and wants to double his wages. Atleast with Chelsea they actually had a very good team (and still do) rather than a bunch of overpaid clueless individuals all bunched up into a team.
Man City have never been a significance to the football world, the only reason anyone bothers to notice them now is that we're forced to hear they're the richest club and spending ridiculous amounts of money on un-needed players.
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Atleast with Chelsea they actually had a very good team (and still do) rather than a bunch of overpaid clueless individuals all bunched up into a team.
Man City have never been a significance to the football world,
Can we please be careful that the Man City situation does not dilute our justified utter loathing and hatred of Chelsea. I actually utterly despised Chelsea before the Abramovic millions, in fact i hated them even before that bearded mouthy twat Ken Bates was involved.
As regards significance in football history pre- mega money, you will find Man City while no Villa are more significant than the west London cinderella club ever were.
Dont get me wrong, going back to the original question of how bad Citeh are for football. I would say on a scale of 1 to 10, then about 50 billion.
Lets just make sure we have enough hatred, loathing and bitterness to spread round all the bad boys of football.
I know I have.
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Can we please be careful that the Man City situation does not dilute our justified utter loathing and hatred of Chelsea. I actually utterly despised Chelsea before the Abramovic millions, in fact i hated them even before that bearded mouthy twat Ken Bates was involved.
No fear of that with me. A bigger assortment of hateful bastards I have yet to encounter.
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This is the last year I will be having a season ticket as I've fallen out of love with football. I think Villa are trying their hardest to be a 'proper club' whilst trying of course to balance the need to be successful and run as a successful business.
Man City are an upgraded version of Chelsea, who were and upgraded version of Blackburn. It all kicked off with sky, they created a monster and they fuckin' well piss me off with their obsessive news reports and reporters constantly camped outside of the training ground for the slightest snippet of news.
Football lost it's sole years ago, now it's life is terminal.
I'll be looking forward to my golf membership next year and my handicap coming down. It doesn't mean I love the Villa any less, I just don't like the fact we're part of this whole money making machine for players that generally don't give a shit.
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Football lost it's sole years ago, now it's life is terminal.
I know, there's definitely something fishy going on.
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Football lost it's sole years ago, now it's life is terminal.
I know, there's definitely something fishy going on.
Come on...there's a time and a plaice for that
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I'm kind of indifferent on Chelsea as a club... but their 'fans', oh boy, I hate them with a passion. They're possibly the worst 'fans' in football.
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It's a right load of carp.
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What a load of pollacks.
Since its birth the premier league has been about money. With the obscene amounts being thrown around now by the likes of Chelski/Man Citeh they have taken it to another level (not the football). Fergie moaning about it is hypocritical because I'm sure he would be doing the same if he had the cash.
Citeh - They have spent more than United but have still won feck all. It would be interesting to see what happens next season if they win nowt this year (please god). Will they hoover up all the best players again on stupid wages and 5 yr contracts. They will be paying millions to get rid of the surplus and one day one of these clubs citeh/chelski etc will be left in the lurch and they will be totally bolloxed. I can't wait to see it happen and will have no sympathy.
As for sky... I cancelled mine 2 yrs ago.
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I can put my hand on my heart and say for definite that I DO NOT WISH IT WAS US.
I totally agree.
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One thing I think Hughes got right there was the purchase of solid PL experience to be a good base for them to build on. Whether he paid over the odds or not, players like Given, Bridge, Barry and Bellamy were the right way for them to go at first. He then went a level up and got the likes of Adebayor and Tevez to add to it. What I now see is that sensible approach being abandoned in favour of the Fantasy Manager philosophy, which isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but they're sacrificing the base they've guilt in order to do this.
I think it will all end in tears.
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For fucks hake, citeh's pikey turbot charged spending spree has made me sick to the gills.
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The best thing that could happen for football would be for Man City to flop. If, for all the millions spent, they don't win the league in the next few years then it might make other owners think again about how to go about it.
They don't seem to have grasped that the most important signing Chelsea made was Mourinho, Mancini has done nothing to suggest that he's in that class.
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One thing I think Hughes got right there was the purchase of solid PL experience to be a good base for them to build on. Whether he paid over the odds or not, players like Given, Bridge, Barry and Bellamy were the right way for them to go at first. He then went a level up and got the likes of Adebayor and Tevez to add to it. What I now see is that sensible approach being abandoned in favour of the Fantasy Manager philosophy, which isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but they're sacrificing the base they've guilt in order to do this.
I think it will all end in tears.
Nail on head.
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I don't think Mankini will be there come the end of the season.
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If I was a multi billionaire and I wanted to take Villa to the next level (not that I would ever give a penny of my money to mercenaries and their parasitic agents) I would do it gradually.
I’d start from the bottom and build the club up with decent foundations.
1 – start with a ten year plan to win the league, not get 4th place. I’m a billionaire I dont need the Champs League money I want trophies. Money comes with success anyway.
2 – Invest in the world’s finest training facilities and open it up to the public so they can see their team training. Footballers only train for about 8 hours per week so I’d also share the facilities with local schools and other sports clubs from the area. My club would be part of the community.
3 – Recruit the best youth team coaches I could get and start to build an academy of local kids. Not go around hoovering up the best talent from academy’s across Europe. I’d start them young and get my coaches to teach them how to pass and move and use their brains. Any youth team players who got too big for their boots or got into trouble would be out. No matter how good they were. There would be a Villa philosophy of good morals and players would have an appreciation of their fortunate position. All players would be expected to take and pass GCSEs and A-levels (or equivalent) and any players not making it as pros would be supported in their search for other careers (possibly in other sports).
4 – Employ a manager with character and morals (a Roy Hodgson type) rather than a superstar name figure poached from a rival club in an unseemly tug of war. Then give him a 5 year contract and tell him he has 5 years to get it right. Not 6 months and then sack him when we lose a couple of games. I’d also give him complete freedom in footballing matters and keep my nose out of his business (except for point 5)
5 – I’d sanction the signing of no more than 3 big name players per season. You can’t build a brand new team each year and expect them to win anything. I’d want continuity. I have a ten year plan anyway so am in no hurry. I’d also make it clear to my manager that I value the inclusion of home grown talent who are brought up with the Villa philosophy. Any player caught doing a John Terry or getting into trouble with police would be sacked. No matter who they are. I’d conduct my transfers within the letter and spirit of the rules. No poaching or tapping up. And if a club thought they could take me for a ride because I was loaded then they could forget it.
6 – Every member of staff from the tea lady up to the star striker would be expected to give something back to the local community. We’d provide support to charities, give discounts to local schoolchildren and members of the armed forces. We’d have a different local charity as our shirt sponsor every two years (not an original idea, I admit) and the players would be expected to know and understand about the lives of local fans.
7 – I’d build the stadium up to cater for 55-60k fans and then I’d sell tickets at pre-Sky prices. I’d keep the same kit for two seasons rather than replace it every year like most clubs do. I’d sell real ale and quality food in my stadium at normal prices. And I’d let every paying adult bring a child under 10 in for free. As a billionaire I wouldnt be interested in squeezing my fans for every last penny. I’d just want a full stadium each week and happy fans.
Now that is a thing of beauty!!
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If I was a multi billionaire and I wanted to take Villa to the next level (not that I would ever give a penny of my money to mercenaries and their parasitic agents) I would do it gradually.
I’d start from the bottom and build the club up with decent foundations.
1 – start with a ten year plan to win the league, not get 4th place. I’m a billionaire I dont need the Champs League money I want trophies. Money comes with success anyway.
2 – Invest in the world’s finest training facilities and open it up to the public so they can see their team training. Footballers only train for about 8 hours per week so I’d also share the facilities with local schools and other sports clubs from the area. My club would be part of the community.
3 – Recruit the best youth team coaches I could get and start to build an academy of local kids. Not go around hoovering up the best talent from academy’s across Europe. I’d start them young and get my coaches to teach them how to pass and move and use their brains. Any youth team players who got too big for their boots or got into trouble would be out. No matter how good they were. There would be a Villa philosophy of good morals and players would have an appreciation of their fortunate position. All players would be expected to take and pass GCSEs and A-levels (or equivalent) and any players not making it as pros would be supported in their search for other careers (possibly in other sports).
4 – Employ a manager with character and morals (a Roy Hodgson type) rather than a superstar name figure poached from a rival club in an unseemly tug of war. Then give him a 5 year contract and tell him he has 5 years to get it right. Not 6 months and then sack him when we lose a couple of games. I’d also give him complete freedom in footballing matters and keep my nose out of his business (except for point 5)
5 – I’d sanction the signing of no more than 3 big name players per season. You can’t build a brand new team each year and expect them to win anything. I’d want continuity. I have a ten year plan anyway so am in no hurry. I’d also make it clear to my manager that I value the inclusion of home grown talent who are brought up with the Villa philosophy. Any player caught doing a John Terry or getting into trouble with police would be sacked. No matter who they are. I’d conduct my transfers within the letter and spirit of the rules. No poaching or tapping up. And if a club thought they could take me for a ride because I was loaded then they could forget it.
6 – Every member of staff from the tea lady up to the star striker would be expected to give something back to the local community. We’d provide support to charities, give discounts to local schoolchildren and members of the armed forces. We’d have a different local charity as our shirt sponsor every two years (not an original idea, I admit) and the players would be expected to know and understand about the lives of local fans.
7 – I’d build the stadium up to cater for 55-60k fans and then I’d sell tickets at pre-Sky prices. I’d keep the same kit for two seasons rather than replace it every year like most clubs do. I’d sell real ale and quality food in my stadium at normal prices. And I’d let every paying adult bring a child under 10 in for free. As a billionaire I wouldnt be interested in squeezing my fans for every last penny. I’d just want a full stadium each week and happy fans.
Excellent post. I wonder how many of these points we can say Randy has done:-
1. Unlcear, but he does seem to be taking a longterm view of things.
2. Well, the new Bodymoor Heath facilities were one of the first things on his agenda and are almost universally lauded as being amongst the bext around. Don't know of him letting schools use them, but I like the idea.
3. We already have a pretty good youth system, so I think he's taken the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach here. I'm a big advocate of them also having a non-football education, but again don't know what we do in this regard? I think the PFA get involved in helping players that don't make it find other careers.
4. Managers is a topical subject right now, but one thing we can say is that he did give his first one time.
5. It's arguable we've signed any 'big names' put our top spends (Ash, Milner and Downing) have all come in different windows, so maybe we're doing this after a fashion.
6. One word - Acorns!
7. Probably where he falls down. Although still cheap by PL standards, our prices are creeping up and food and drink inside is expensive and not all that good. There may be stadium expansion plans, but nothing has been done yet. I guess in this regard Randy is viewing us as a business and does not have the totally philanthropic stance you are suggesting.
All in all he's doing things right!
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Has anyone else noticed how, like their rivals, they seems to have quietly dropped the word "Manchester" from their name? For years we have had to put up with sycophantic commentators calling ManUre "United" and assuming you know which one they mean. Even when, like Monday, they are playing a United... the match was commonly referred to as "United vs Newcastle". Grrr...
This now seems to have started to happen with Man City. Apparently Bradford, Hull, Leicester, Lincoln, Norwich, Stoke, etc no longer count. They are just "City" and everyone is suposed to know which City you mean.
They are becoming what they hate.
Only good news is it might annoy Small Heath fans.
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Sold your soul, m'lord,
Sold your soul.
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Anything they win, and when you're spending that kind of wedge, you can bet they'll win something - eventually - must have some kind of empty feeling about it.
Sure, it'd be grand to win the FA Cup again but I'd much rather have a couple of local lads/Villa fans in the team than a bunch of hyper-paid mercenaries that had no idea your club even existed this time last year.
And even when they do win stuff, how do they define their club?
Put yourself in a Citeh fans shoes and try and answer that. The only thing they'll come up with is "Richest club in the world". It's all built on sand. It's all reliant on one thing.
At the end of the day, Man City are nothing more than Aladdin. Some poor, irrelevant urchin that has stumbled upon a lucky lamp. It's all fake........and it'll all end in a thousand and one nights.
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I've been on a business appointment this morning to an arab owned venture (won't mention the name, but it's associated with Dolphins and God!!) and I'm still trying to come to terms with what I've seen. This is a money-no-object operation and it's an unbelievable set up which dwarfs any similar business which I've seen. If that's what vast Arab money can do then it's hardly surprising that football players want a piece of it.
Today I've seen some of the best race horses in the World - not just one or two but dozens, and fields with their offspring worth millions all kept in opulent surroundings. This business is completely dominant in it's market, and if Citeh get a fraction of the success these lot have it will be scary.
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1 – start with a ten year plan to win the league, not get 4th place. I’m a billionaire I dont need the Champs League money I want trophies. Money comes with success anyway.
Hasn't the emergence of Manchester City shown that it is impossible to plan for anything like that period of time in football?
For example, if Randy had, in 2006, a five year plan for us, it was rendered pretty much obsolete after two years with the Man City situation, not only because they're better placed to buy success than we are, but also because we spend two summers fending them off our best players.
You can't really plan for that sort of thing happening. Goals you can have, just not plans, I don't think
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I've been on a business appointment this morning to an arab owned venture (won't mention the name, but it's associated with Dolphins and God!!) and I'm still trying to come to terms with what I've seen. This is a money-no-object operation and it's an unbelievable set up which dwarfs any similar business which I've seen. If that's what vast Arab money can do then it's hardly surprising that football players want a piece of it.
Today I've seen some of the best race horses in the World - not just one or two but dozens, and fields with their offspring worth millions all kept in opulent surroundings. This business is completely dominant in it's market, and if Citeh get a fraction of the success these lot have it will be scary.
Yes, if Citeh buy up Stephen Ireland's dad and force him to breed with James Milner's mum, then cross their offspring with, say, Franny Lee, we are in deep shit
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Yes, if Citeh buy up Stephen Ireland's dad and force him to breed with James Milner's mum, then cross their offspring with, say, Franny Lee, we are in deep shit
At least we could wipe the shit off with the product of Franny Lee's bog roll empire.
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I wouldn't fancy trying to harvest Howard Kendall's semen
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Man City are simply the Chelsea of 2010, the new bullies on the block. And before Chelsea it was Man Utd. It galls me to say this but at least ManU earned their bullying pile of cash primarily through success on the field.
But we have to be honest and admit that in a way, we are a mini-Man City. Randy has been generous to the club but it is has been Sugar Daddy money, not money earned from drawing extra crowds and sponsorship deals, that paid for Milner, Young, Dunne and all the rest of our bought in stars. Yes, we have also attempted to balance this with a great youth policy, a strong charitable link and some of the most reasonable ticket prices in the top division but though I loathe Man City I have to say that we are not whiter than snow when it comes to trying to buy success. Blackburn, Newcastle and other clubs (Wolves even) have been in similar situations with wealthy backers but the Man City phenomenon is in a different league.
Wealth backed teams have always tried to create success in the short term through acquisition, however the virtually bottomless pit of cash that Man City appear to be able to tap into is at a whole new level. Never before has a team been able to stockpile talent in this way. They can buy up the top 50 players and keep many on ice or loaned out to selected teams they deem non-competitive. This is an unfair practice and rules need to be considered to prevent this.
How about this as a measure? Any senior player not in the 25 man squad becomes effectively a free agent, available on a Bosman to a team of his choice. In addition, the original club has to pay the player his existing wages for the remainder of his contract - not in a lump sum, simply weekly as per usual. For example take Bellamy, say he has two years to go on his contract. Assuming he was not named to the 25 man squad, he can simply sign with Cardiff, or Bolton, or Liverpool or whoever and Man City have to pay his wages for the remaining two years. After that period, he can then agree a new contract with Cardiff or whoever or move on to a third club.
This rule would not prevent Man City from building a very strong 25 man squad but it would prevent them from overly stockpiling talent and then loaning these players out to Championship teams or also rans that they don't consider a threat.
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I don't think Mankini will be there come the end of the season.
It wouldn't surprise me if he was gone by the end of the month.
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I think they're great for football. The more idiotic they are, the quicker the game as it is now explodes and we get it back.
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A quote from my colleague, who after pointing me to the BBC website informed me that "Manchester City's second team is better than Aston Villa's first."
For those of you who haven't seen it, the link and image in particular are below.
"Can Roberto Mancini keep sizable squad happy?" - BBC Sport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/8924639.stm)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48789000/jpg/_48789799_manc_teams_466.jpg)
What gets me the most is that he rejected my statement of "...but Man City have spent over £300M in 3 years ... Villa haven't."
What else can I say? Yes, their second squad is of better 'quality' than ours, but they still don't play like a team, and (I hope) won't win jack shit.
IMHO, it's all over-inflated-money-jockies who never really wanted to play for Man City apart from the 100% pay rise (ie. Barry).
Discuss so I can fire more back at him.
He's a Man Utd fan who lives in Smethwick, FYI.
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"Manchester City's second team is better than Aston Villa's first."
Second team?! Don't you mean ELITE squad?!
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we might not have the same riches as they have, but we built the table that they are now splashing the cash to try and be a part of...
they are like that scummer doley who won the lottery and then spunked all his money cans of carling and junk cars to race with his scummer mates... he is now back on the dole...
they are manchester united wannabe's and have turned into everything they used to slate manchester united for...
wankers..
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How many Citeh threads do we need , who gives a shit
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But we have to be honest and admit that in a way, we are a mini-Man City. Randy has been generous to the club but it is has been Sugar Daddy money, not money earned from drawing extra crowds and sponsorship deals, that paid for Milner, Young, Dunne and all the rest of our bought in stars. Yes, we have also attempted to balance this with a great youth policy, a strong charitable link and some of the most reasonable ticket prices in the top division but though I loathe Man City I have to say that we are not whiter than snow when it comes to trying to buy success. Blackburn, Newcastle and other clubs (Wolves even) have been in similar situations with wealthy backers but the Man City phenomenon is in a different league.
Don't agree with that.
Take it away from football for a minute and what you have is an established and successful business man buying a company, which he then invests in. Same for us and Man City thus far. Where we start to differ is Randy has now slowed up the investment side and is looking for the business to stand on it's own two feet and make a return, while the other lot are still throwing ridiculous sums of money around that they can never conceivably be make a return upon. A little push to get the ball rolling or a continual funding with no care as to whether they make money or not - that's the difference between us and Man City!!
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the arabs have invested 1 billion into that club... What do they expect....
anyway FOOK em
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Too many Manchester Shitting City threads.
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A quote from my colleague, who after pointing me to the BBC website informed me that "Manchester City's second team is better than Aston Villa's first."
For those of you who haven't seen it, the link and image in particular are below.
"Can Roberto Mancini keep sizable squad happy?" - BBC Sport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/8924639.stm)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48789000/jpg/_48789799_manc_teams_466.jpg)
What gets me the most is that he rejected my statement of "...but Man City have spent over £300M in 3 years ... Villa haven't."
What else can I say? Yes, their second squad is of better 'quality' than ours, but they still don't play like a team, and (I hope) won't win jack shit.
IMHO, it's all over-inflated-money-jockies who never really wanted to play for Man City apart from the 100% pay rise (ie. Barry).
Discuss so I can fire more back at him.
He's a Man Utd fan who lives in Smethwick, FYI.
What do you expect? They've spent a bajillion pounds.
I hope their club implodes and they finish 11th and cup-less.
God I despair at the state of the game.
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A quote from my colleague, who after pointing me to the BBC website informed me that "Manchester City's second team is better than Aston Villa's first."
For those of you who haven't seen it, the link and image in particular are below.
"Can Roberto Mancini keep sizable squad happy?" - BBC Sport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/8924639.stm)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48789000/jpg/_48789799_manc_teams_466.jpg)
What gets me the most is that he rejected my statement of "...but Man City have spent over £300M in 3 years ... Villa haven't."
What else can I say? Yes, their second squad is of better 'quality' than ours, but they still don't play like a team, and (I hope) won't win jack shit.
IMHO, it's all over-inflated-money-jockies who never really wanted to play for Man City apart from the 100% pay rise (ie. Barry).
Discuss so I can fire more back at him.
He's a Man Utd fan who lives in Smethwick, FYI.
Therefore his opinion is about as relevant as Geri Haliwell speaking about the state of the world economy. Ignore him, other than to remind him we won at the theatre of dysentery last season - any excuse.
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Given wont be their for long... Its all going to implode at that club...
They are getting rid of their best players and replacing them with overpaid foreign players who have come for the money, not the club... you cant keep all those players happy... most of those players will soon be throwing their Ferraris out of the pram.... including the manager.....
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John M - I agree with your point and I was going to include a comment that we are now looking to balance the books etc. but I thought my post was lengthy enough!
But from the standpoint of clubs like Wigan or Bolton, they could say that they could not compete with our wallet, or rather Randy's wallet, for players like Dunne, Ashley or Milner. Those type of clubs are in a different financial league to us the same way that all clubs are now in a different financial league to Fantasy Football Man City. Hence from the perspective of having a greater freedom to spend we could have been seen as a mini-Man City.
My intention was not in any way to knock Mr Lerner. I think he has been a great owner of the club and he clearly wishes to do things the right way. He has also not been adverse to splashing out the cash in ways that other clubs could not match when he thought is was the right thing to do for his/our club.
I agree that the key difference is that Randy has a businessman's perspective with regards to return on investment and that the Sheiks look willing to spend crazy money with little or no expectation of realistic returns. Man City is now a plaything, an Arabian status symbol, little more than the crass show of opulance that is a Vertu phone.
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Boateng isn't a centre-half is he?
Warnock's better than Bridge. Dunne, Collins, Cuellar and Clark are all better than Lescott. My nan's better than Vieira now. De Jong's not better than Petrov or Ireland. Wright-Phillips isn't as good as Young or Albrighton (or Downing if he plays like he did last week). Robinho's a good player... for Brazil, but doesn't want to play for them.
Conclusion: he's talking shite.
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Boateng isn't a centre-half is he?
He is, but he can also play right-back too. His normal position is centre-back but for Germany he plays right-back, probably because Germany already have two good centre-backs.
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Very bad I hope they self implode very very soon along with Ckelsea.
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Too many Manchester Shitting City threads.
Almost as many as Tottenham Shitting Hotspur threads.
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I've been on a business appointment this morning to an arab owned venture (won't mention the name, but it's associated with Dolphins and God!!) and I'm still trying to come to terms with what I've seen. This is a money-no-object operation and it's an unbelievable set up which dwarfs any similar business which I've seen. If that's what vast Arab money can do then it's hardly surprising that football players want a piece of it.
Today I've seen some of the best race horses in the World - not just one or two but dozens, and fields with their offspring worth millions all kept in opulent surroundings. This business is completely dominant in it's market, and if Citeh get a fraction of the success these lot have it will be scary.
I met a Lebanese 'celebrity' chef and his business manager at a restaurant in Beirut a few weeks ago, and they told me about a food festival they'd been invited to cook at in Abu Dhabi. They were based in the Yas Hotel on Abu Dhabi's Yas Island complex, of F1 fame. The chef told me that the first thing that struck him as being odd, was that the ovens in the vast kitchens were permanently fired up, 24 hours a day. He said that would never happen in a real kitchen as it would cost too much. Then he noticed the lack of people attending the festival. In fact, there was a distinct lack of guests at the hotel. When he asked the organisers of the event about this, they told him that the Yas Hotel - in fact Yas Island itself - was not built for people. It was built for prestige, first and foremost. If people come, then great. But they can get along just fine without them. In many ways this approach is reflected in Man City. It's not for people, it's for prestige.
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That is simply amazing. And, as you say, probably an excellent gauge as to the mindset of the people running Man City.
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What's even more disgusting is that the poor sod's who built Yas island were treated as virtual slaves, made to work in dangerous conditions, paid a pittance and then discarded. The wealth is retained for the uber-rich. It is an utter violation of humanity.
Any Man Shitty fan who tells me I'm just jealous can take their despicable owners and shove them up a camel's arse.
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What's even more disgusting is that the poor sod's who built Yas island were treated as virtual slaves, made to work in dangerous conditions, paid a pittance and then discarded. The wealth is retained for the uber-rich. It is an utter violation of humanity.
Any Man Shitty fan who tells me I'm just jealous can take their despicable owners and shove them up a camel's arse.
Exactly my thougths. Thanks for succinct summimg up. They could of course use their wealth to improve the life of their fellow human beings in Yemen, Sudan and Ethiopia etc but to filthy rich Arabs those people are sub-human. I hate these Emirates and other small very rich states where the boundry was drawn around oil wells..and by whom... I am afraid Great Britain.
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What are the the chances of an Islamic fundamentalist revolution to overthrow the sheikhs in the UAE and fuck Man City up?
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If there is an Islamic fundamentalist revolution in the Middle East / Gulf region, Man City's future will be the least of our worries.
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Exactly my thougths. Thanks for succinct summimg up. They could of course use their wealth to improve the life of their fellow human beings in Yemen, Sudan and Ethiopia etc but to filthy rich Arabs those people are sub-human.
Because there are no homeless people in the west that could be helped by the billionaires over here? More to the point, why should the rich arabs have to help people there just because they're local, what does proximity have to do with it? The rich people over here are equally capable of helping people in Yemen/Sudan/Ethiopia. It's a bit harsh criticising the rich arabs, when the rich westerners are usually no better.
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Whilst multi tasking in the kitchen earlier tonight and half listening to the radio, there was a discussion about charitable donations to Pakistan apropos the floods. A comparison was made between what the British public have donated and Man Citeh paid for James Milner. I can't remember the exact details, but something about it felt very wrong to me. I know money talks, and how much money there is at some football clubs, but the way Man Citeh's splashing the cash leaves a sour taste. Their owners have made me think something I never thought I would - Chelsea to win the league rather than them.
Sour grapes? Possibly. Maybe if we'd have done the same, I'd have probably been like some horrible Harry Enfield 'considerably richer than you' type character.
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After watching Sheikh Mansour look bored shitless every few minutes on his first visit to Eastlands this evening, it just highlights how the "project" is about Abu Dhabi making a statement more than anything else.
Oh well, good luck to him.
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I was surprised to hear that it was the first time he'd attended a match.
Sums it up: we're stripped of our better players because a mega-rich Arab wants a PL club as a bauble - and doesn't appear to be particularly interested in sitting through the 90 minutes to cast his eyes over his investment.
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I was surprised to hear that it was the first time he'd attended a match.
Sums it up: we're stripped of our better players because a mega-rich Arab wants a PL club as a bauble - and doesn't appear to be particularly interested in sitting through the 90 minutes to cast his eyes over his investment.
It's akin to 'celebrities' adopting a child as an accessory then palming them off to an army of nannies.
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Citeh's ridiculous spending spree is wrong for football. Relative parity is important for sports leagues. I just read somewhere that UEFA is bringing in a new fiscal criterion that could disqualify teams like Citeh from the Championship and Europa since their ratio of expenditure to profit is so out of whack.
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I was surprised to hear that it was the first time he'd attended a match.
Sheikh Mansour al Gregnash
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I heard on a broadcast that some teams like Citeh might be disqualified from UEFA participation (Champions Leage and Europa League) in the future because of their fiscal imbalance between expenditures and profit. Has anyone else heard of this criterion or was the announcer just "blowing it out of his *ss"? If this is true and the ratio is reasonable, UEFA could help save the EPL from total imbalance (which is the way that it is trending). Any details on this situation would be greatly appreciated. At any rate, the EPL needs some type of salary control (even if it is a luxury tax).
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I was surprised to hear that it was the first time he'd attended a match.
Sheikh Mansour al Gregnash
nor as Torres for a long time
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This photo makes me sick :(
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/48844000/jpg/_48844080_barry_milner_466x260ap.jpg)
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This photo makes me sick :(
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/48844000/jpg/_48844080_barry_milner_466x260ap.jpg)
Lovers of the world unite.
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God I hate Man City! Spoiling our party by coming along with there flash the cash attitude to some of our better players. Dam them!
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I can't help thinking that if we'd have tamely lost 3-0 to Man City the commentators would be delighted and yet they were positively in mourning for Thieverpool.
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I was surprised to hear that it was the first time he'd attended a match.
Sheikh Mansour al Gregnash
To give him his full name and title:
Sheikh Mansour al Gregnash bin larfin bin freebasin al faceplam.
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Sheikh Mansour Gregnash Bin Laptop, the fakir
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I heard on a broadcast that some teams like Citeh might be disqualified from UEFA participation (Champions Leage and Europa League) in the future because of their fiscal imbalance between expenditures and profit. Has anyone else heard of this criterion or was the announcer just "blowing it out of his *ss"? If this is true and the ratio is reasonable, UEFA could help save the EPL from total imbalance (which is the way that it is trending). Any details on this situation would be greatly appreciated. At any rate, the EPL needs some type of salary control (even if it is a luxury tax).
UEFA financial rule changes (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/may/26/michel-platini-uefa-club-finances)
I think in the medium term at least, it will make it harder for us to compete.
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Exactly my thougths. Thanks for succinct summimg up. They could of course use their wealth to improve the life of their fellow human beings in Yemen, Sudan and Ethiopia etc but to filthy rich Arabs those people are sub-human.
Because there are no homeless people in the west that could be helped by the billionaires over here? More to the point, why should the rich arabs have to help people there just because they're local, what does proximity have to do with it? The rich people over here are equally capable of helping people in Yemen/Sudan/Ethiopia. It's a bit harsh criticising the rich arabs, when the rich westerners are usually no better.
I dont think you've thought that through. Western Billionaires dont generally employ slave labour in the tens of thousands to build themselves expesive follies. The crass, gaudy, showy megastructures built in the UAE were built on the backs of migrant workers who were denied civil rights, decent conditions and basic health and safety.
I'm not saying Western money couldnt be put to better use, just that Arab sheikhs are vile despots.
Man City fans who glory in their owners' wealth are like people who go on holiday to Dubai. Completely lacking in taste and morals.
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Tomorrow's Sport on Five will be a Citeh Special.
Anyone would think that there is something uniquely newsworthy in a club being able to outspend every other club out there.
Thank goodness there's a Villa match to concentrate on.
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I dont think you've thought that through. Western Billionaires dont generally employ slave labour in the tens of thousands to build themselves expesive follies. The crass, gaudy, showy megastructures built in the UAE were built on the backs of migrant workers who were denied civil rights, decent conditions and basic health and safety.
My dad was seconded to the Kuwait Air Force a few years before the Iraqi invasion. At the time when I visited him he said that the ruling family treated their fellow Muslims like shit. Pakistanis mostly, doing all the work for sub-standard of living wages and a lot of mental and physical abuse for their mega-rich masters.* There were bombings at the time too from dissidents.
*I lean to the Country=Human analogy a lot. A new country is born and they go through phases. Some countries are still going through their feudal phase (toddler). Some could argue the USA is going through its imperial (teenage) years, whilst the UK is in its look toward home (middle age) years. I might bring this up in a separate thread.