Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: WarszaVillan on August 18, 2010, 09:30:26 AM
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With the imminent signing of Stephen Ireland we are facing a situation where the chairman is deciding which players to sign. We have no full-time manager and therefore the board are directly interferring and directing the football management of the club. If we sign other players before the transfer deadline (and assumming no full-time manager is appointed by then) we will be in a situation that I can never previously remember in my time supporting Villa.
My concern is not the quality or not of Ireland, but the precedent that this sets. Can you imagine the outrage if Ellis had done this?
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The difference is Ellis, given the chance, would do it on his own, based on his great knowledge of football.
Randy will already have all the Head Scout's reports and will consult with many, including Kevin MacDonald.
For this window, I'm not too concerned.
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Martin O'Neill was not the only person at the club with an idea on who to buy.
We have a network of scouts (no really, we do), coaches and advisors etc.
And whilst K Mac isn't (yet) the full time manager, he can suggest players to buy who would represent good investment.
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Would K Mac be upto speed on players? Wouldn't his focus have been on reserve team squads?
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I think we have to give Randy a bit of lattitude in this regard due to the circumstances we are in. I'm sure he's taking advice from football people still at the club. Plus I think the Milner/Ireland deal was pretty much agreed during MON's time, so all he's really done so far is completed a deal set up my a manager.
I'd say a similar thing if we sign Keane, but were to go get a player out of nowhere that would be a different story!
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With the imminent signing of Stephen Ireland we are facing a situation where the chairman is deciding which players to sign. We have no full-time manager and therefore the board are directly interferring and directing the football management of the club.
There's a difference between interfering with the running of a club when you have a full time manager in post and ensuring that the club get the best deal they can in preparation for a new manager. The money is no good to a manager coming in with 24 hours of the transfer window left, a replacement player already on the books is a lot more helpful to them.
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Would K Mac be upto speed on players? Wouldn't his focus have been on reserve team squads?
You're right. He probably hasn't a clue who Stephen Ireland even is, let alone whether or not to trade Milner in for him. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that he only knows Milner from his 80 minutes during the Wrist Ham game.
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I am playing devil's advocate a bit here here. But there is a scenario that Martin left because he no longer had full control over the transfers and that once gone the board are pushing through their ideas of how transfers should be in this window. Now they may be right or wrong in their ideas but surely the board should be keeping out of these matters.
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According to Charles Sale, the League Managers Association has said that none of O'Neill's targets was outside the Villa wage structure - although Manchester City's Stephen Ireland will be.
The implication being that Ireland wasn't the manager's choice for spending on his squad.
The question isn't whether Ireland is a good player, it is who decides on the players we sign.
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i'm really pleased we have got Ireland in, as most others are,
so we can make excuses about the chairman signing players because, well.... we like this transfer.
but it would be a totaly different scenario if he were to bring in someone like Titus Bramble or Alan smith, then most of us would be up in arms about 'interfearing'
i dont think Randy will make any more transfers, if he does it will be because he has appointed KM, so it will be the new mangers decision.
but its a good question to ask, who signed Ireland ?
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Would K Mac be upto speed on players? Wouldn't his focus have been on reserve team squads?
He's worked with Ireland before so would have a better idea of him than MON, say.
Apart from that, who knows how much other football he sees. But its not hard to imagine him connecting with the scouting team and so on and he'd be fully aware of some of the higher profile players around. If for instance we really were after Flamini and Huntelaar he'd no doubt be aware of them and have an opinion on them.
As an aside, K Mac has been working with the first team for a while now. Not just reserves.
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I dont mind the ireland transfer because it was part of the milner deal so that's not to bad.
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According to Charles Sale, the League Managers Association has said that none of O'Neill's targets was outside the Villa wage structure - although Manchester City's Stephen Ireland will be.
I don't think the individual wage of a player is an issue as much as the total wage bill. I think the board are happy to pay incoming players the required wages, within reason of course, but wanted some shed off of it first.
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According to Charles Sale, the League Managers Association has said that none of O'Neill's targets was outside the Villa wage structure - although Manchester City's Stephen Ireland will be.
The implication being that Ireland wasn't the manager's choice for spending on his squad.
The question isn't whether Ireland is a good player, it is who decides on the players we sign.
i thought that MON didnt want Ireland, he wanted Mceedy/Keene,
one of the reasons they fell outWith the imminent signing of Stephen Ireland we are facing a situation where the chairman is deciding which players to sign. We have no full-time manager and therefore the board are directly interferring and directing the football management of the club.
There's a difference between interfering with the running of a club when you have a full time manager in post and ensuring that the club get the best deal they can in preparation for a new manager. The money is no good to a manager coming in with 24 hours of the transfer window left, a replacement player already on the books is a lot more helpful to them.
yeah, but you probably wouldnt be saying that if he'd just signed a player you didnt like
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I did read that MON wanted just the money for Milner as opposed to any player swap.
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Shit loads of money and a quality player to boot? It's a no brainer.
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Perfectly sensible way of going about things given the unusual circumstances we find ourselves in.
But it is another reason showing the disadvantages and stupidity of having a transfer window.
A system which allows the richest clubs to manipulate the market to their advantage as they hold all the cards.
The sooner we go back to the old system of a transfer deadline the better. A perfectly sensible system which was put in place to prevent clubs trying buy promotion or get out of relegation at the business end of the season.
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He's worked with Ireland before so would have a better idea of him than MON, say.
When was that?
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It is a bit of unique situation with us being left managerless only a few weeks before the deadline.
I did ask the General was there any transfers that may go through that had been lined up while MON was here...he didn't respond.
Looking increasingly unlikely that we will get anyone else in before the end of the transfer window.
Unless K-Mac and the board are working on it as we speak. I could see perhaps a couple of last day ones going through e.g. Santa Cruz, who surely will be looking for a new home...I'd be happy enough if he found it at Villa Park.
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He's worked with Ireland before so would have a better idea of him than MON, say.
When was that?
During the Staunton era for Ireland......
God, I had banished that from my memory, nearly forgot K-Mac was involved in that debacle...
He was the man in charge when we lost to Cyprus 5-2 because Staunton was in the stands for a suspension. Seem to remember he got a pasting in the Irish media for not being able to cope with being in charge or react when Cyprus had the upper hand.
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God, I had banished that from my memory, nearly forgot K-Mac was involved in that debacle...
As had I!
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He's worked with Ireland before so would have a better idea of him than MON, say.
When was that?
The Irish squad
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Im sure that this was part of the deal before mon left so its stayed the same now his gone. We are also totally unaware of MaCdonald's part in this signing. I think I was the only way we would have got the Milner deal done and speaking for myself im very happy with the signing
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We had three options
1) Scrap the deal and be left with a potentially unhappy player
2) Make it cash-only, and be left with a pile of money we couldn't spend until next summer
3) Go ahead, bringing in a new player, and a quality one at that.
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I'll have Ireland on the back of my new (old) Villa shirt. When they ever get released.
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I hadn't realised RL was choosing players.
I am confident he's now involved in negotiating the deals, for the best of the club, which as Mr Woodhall, sir, suggests above is what he's done.
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Can you imagine the outrage if Ellis had done this?
Can't believe I'm the first to say this but didn't HDE sign Daveeeeed Ginola when he met him on holiday in the south of France?
That transfer worked out brilliantly!!!!! ::)
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MacDonald key to Man City ace Ireland making Villa move
Kevin MacDonald had a big influence in Manchester City midfielder Stephen Ireland agreeing a move to Aston Villa.
The Mirror says MacDonald will be in charge today when Villa fly out to Rapid Vienna ahead of tomorrow's Europa League play-off first leg.
Ireland, 23, is unlikely to travel as he is still completing his switch from Man City in part-exchange for James Milner.
He will sign a four-year contract worth £65,000-a-week to become Villa's top earner alongside Ashley Young.
And Ireland is keen to play for Villa caretaker MacDonald, who he knows well from international duty with the Republic of Ireland.
MacDonald was the Republic's assistant under Steve Staunton and was supportive after Ireland's controversial international exile in 2007.
Ireland was given compassionate leave from the Irish camp, pretending his grandmother had died when in fact his girlfriend Jessica had suffered a miscarriage.
But MacDonald still remains a huge admirer of the talented Ireland.
"I think Stephen is an outstanding footballer," said MacDonald.
"I thought he was wonderful when he played for the Republic of Ireland."
Source (http://www.tribalfootball.com/macdonald-key-man-city-ace-ireland-making-villa-move-1054201?)
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With the imminent signing of Stephen Ireland we are facing a situation where the chairman is deciding which players to sign. ... My concern is not the quality or not of Ireland, but the precedent that this sets. Can you imagine the outrage if Ellis had done this?
Isn't this just a little naive? - Chairmen who own clubs and put up the funds are unlikely to completely hand over responsibility for expenditure (and with 'Ol Dead Hand we saw the extreme - wishing to see all of O'leary's expense chits before signing anything off). There WAS outrage when Herbert did it - and he seemed to do it more when his trust in a manager was on the wane.
The fact that RL has got so involved in this deal is, I suspect, a reflection of his diminishing faith in MON's judgement and a desire to protect (as he would see it) his investments.
Not that surprising when you look at it.
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Yet another sign that Kev Mac is getting the job full time. Can any of you regular punters tell me if his odds are dropping?
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Would K Mac be upto speed on players? Wouldn't his focus have been on reserve team squads?
You're right. He probably hasn't a clue who Stephen Ireland even is, let alone whether or not to trade Milner in for him. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that he only knows Milner from his 80 minutes during the Wrist Ham game.
Oh its good to see a bit of sarcasm, its hardly used on this site. we all know of the Prem league players but how well would he know some of the few thousand foreign players we are now bound to sign since MON has gone :-)>>
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You also forgotten one important player. Richard Dunne as he know Stephen Ireland and our club and he can advise us to go for him or avoid.
There should be off the record chat between Kevin and Richard and possibly Randy.
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Would Randy have signed Heskey or Harewood?
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On SSN. there was some comment on the white ticker about K-Mac and RL meeting to discuss possible transfers?
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Yet another sign that Kev Mac is getting the job full time. Can any of you regular punters tell me if his odds are dropping?
I only very rarely bet but K Mac is where my money would be going.
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On SSN. there was some comment on the white ticker about K-Mac and RL meeting to discuss possible transfers?
Taken from the interview MacDonald did I expect where he said that he "might" be talking to Lerner next week about transfers but he isn't sure.
As a newly signed up member of the grumpy old man squad can I register my disapproval at the use of K-Mac to describe our caretaker manager.
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Get with the times, C-Smi.
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On SSN. there was some comment on the white ticker about K-Mac and RL meeting to discuss possible transfers?
Taken from the interview MacDonald did I expect where he said that he "might" be talking to Lerner next week about transfers but he isn't sure.
As a newly signed up member of the grumpy old man squad can I register my disapproval at the use of K-Mac to describe our caretaker manager.
What about calling him Mac-Daddy?
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I actually quite like the name K-Mac!
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I actually think we are likely to spend more whilst Randy is playing such an active role. I think he was trying to reign in spending because he wasn't happy with the way it was being spent, basically he didn't trust MON with it. Now, I think he'll be much more ready to spend as it is him doing the spending...
I think we'll see a "big" signing before the window closes..
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I actually quite like the name K-Mac!
Makes me think of Spacey in K-Pax.
I think we should call him Kevin.
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K-Mac ftw.
Or possibly Big Mac on special occasions.
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I don't see a huge problem with this as we had manager and player flux. No matter the real reasons Milner wanted to go - he wanted to go. Simple as that. So we weren't out there headhunting for no reason. Ireland is a good pickup.
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I actually quite like the name K-Mac!
Makes me think of Spacey in K-Pax.
I think we should call him Kevin.
Like the bird from the disney film up?
I prefer Macdonald myself, Don't like calling footballers by their first names
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I actually quite like the name K-Mac!
Makes me think of Spacey in K-Pax.
I think we should call him Kevin.
I think KM works. As for you, you can be C-Smitty.
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SuperMac may be tempting if the team starts to do well.
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We had three options
1) Scrap the deal and be left with a potentially unhappy player
2) Make it cash-only, and be left with a pile of money we couldn't spend until next summer
3) Go ahead, bringing in a new player, and a quality one at that.
I think business wise it's a no-brainer. but, it is an example of the Chairman buying a player and different standards being applied. Still if we can convince Ireland to join whilst we managerless then we're not doinf too bad.
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Mi nombre es Mac, Big Kev Mac