Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Chico Hamilton III on August 06, 2010, 05:10:44 PM

Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 06, 2010, 05:10:44 PM
Not sure if this will work or even be interesting. Listening to the test match today and they are trying to make the fewest links back to WG Grace.

Which got me thinking

What's the fewest number of links that connect the present Villa team with the team that played Aston Brook St Mary's rugby team in our first ever game.

here's an example

Milner has played with Barry who has played with Ian Taylor who has played with Nigel spink who has played (once) with Brian Little who has played with Charlie Aitken who played with Jonny Dixon.....

Can anyone be bothered to make a direct link from the present team to the first ever Villa team?
Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on August 06, 2010, 05:24:06 PM
Quote from: "Chico Hamilton III"
Charlie Aitken who played with Jonny Dixon.....

Did he? Both played just one game in 60-61. Was it the same game?
Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 06, 2010, 05:25:01 PM
Quote from: "Nick Lees"
Quote from: "Chico Hamilton III"
Charlie Aitken who played with Jonny Dixon.....

Did he? Both played just one game in 60-61. Was it the same game?


could be wrong but i thought Aitken's debut was Dixon's last game for Villa

No?
Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 06, 2010, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: "Chico Hamilton III"
Quote from: "Nick Lees"
Quote from: "Chico Hamilton III"
Charlie Aitken who played with Jonny Dixon.....

Did he? Both played just one game in 60-61. Was it the same game?


could be wrong but i thought Aitken's debut was Dixon's last game for Villa

No?


Yes. Now, Archie Hunter played in our first FA Cup game, and later played with Jas Cowan who played with Joe Bache who played with Howard Humphries who played with Billy Walker who played with Eric Houghton who played with George Cummings who played with Johnny Dixon who played with Charlie Aitken who played with Brian Little who played with Nigel Spink who played with Ian Taylor who played with Gareth Barry.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on August 06, 2010, 05:26:48 PM
There you go. I'm off for a Pimms then.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 06, 2010, 05:31:31 PM
I love stuff like this but the game starts in 2 hours and 15 mins and i fancy a chinese take away rather than some crappy burger at the game.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: eric woolban woolban on August 06, 2010, 05:36:06 PM
Johnny Dixon...

...Who played with Ernie 'mush' Callaghan.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 06, 2010, 06:38:10 PM
Mush Callaghan played with Alex Talbot.

Gibson, Talbot, Tate across the back known as wind, sleet, and rain.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 07, 2010, 11:53:10 AM
Young played with Barry (oo...err)

Barry managed by Gregory

Gregory played with Leighton Phillips

Phillips played with Aitken

Aitken managed by Eric Houghton

Houghton played with Walker

Walker selected by Ramsay (before we had a manager)

Ramsay played with most of the players who played in our first game, I guess.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Glenn Peen on August 07, 2010, 12:10:09 PM
Which, for me, raises another set of questions. As George Ramsay was connected with the club for so long, why aren't they more definitive answers to the key questions:

Why are we called Aston Villa?
Why do we play in claret and blue?
Why is our badge a lion?

I know all the proposed answers but you'd think someone somewhere would have documented the definitive answers. Did William McGregor keep a diary that has been kept by his family, I wonder...?

To me, it is strange that there aren't definitive answers - didn't anyone talk about the stories and pass the information on? We were, after all, the biggest club in the world. And in my pathetic mind, still are...
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 07, 2010, 02:21:40 PM
There probably aren't definitive  answers. I doubt most of the people who started it up didn't realise the club would still be going 136 years later and that they'd better write everything down.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 07, 2010, 06:43:40 PM
Quote from: "cdvillafan"
Young played with Barry (oo...err)

Barry managed by Gregory

Gregory played with Leighton Phillips

Phillips played with Aitken

Aitken managed by Eric Houghton

Houghton played with Walker

Walker selected by Ramsay (before we had a manager)

Ramsay played with most of the players who played in our first game, I guess.


Aitken wasn't managed by Houghton.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 07, 2010, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: "Glenn Peen"


Why are we called Aston Villa?
Why do we play in claret and blue?
Why is our badge a lion?



Aston Villa was the area of Lozells in which the club was formed.

The best explanation I've heard is that player & grahic designer Ollie Wheatley was asked to come up with a kit design.

mcGregor's Scottish background.
Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 07, 2010, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: "dave.woodhall"


Yes. Now, Archie Hunter played in our first FA Cup game, and later played with Jas Cowan who played with Joe Bache who played with Howard Humphries who played with Billy Walker who played with Eric Houghton who played with George Cummings who played with Johnny Dixon who played with Charlie Aitken who played with Brian Little who played with Nigel Spink who played with Ian Taylor who played with Gareth Barry.


I am mightily impressed with that Dave.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Uncle Junior on August 07, 2010, 08:46:58 PM
Claret represented Hearts and the blue was for Rangers. McGregor wanted to include his Scottish teams in Aston Villa's kit.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 07, 2010, 08:50:47 PM
Hans played with Lotte
Lotte played with Jane
Jane played with Willy
Willy is happy again
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 07, 2010, 09:36:18 PM
Quote from: "Uncle Junior"
Claret represented Hearts and the blue was for Rangers. McGregor wanted to include his Scottish teams in Aston Villa's kit.


Nice story, but easily debunked by the fact that when McGregor came down to England Rangers & Hearts were virtually unknown.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: Glenn Peen on August 07, 2010, 09:57:02 PM
Thanks for replying, Dave .

> Aston Villa was the area of Lozells in which the club was formed.

I remember the research and the maps (was that on VT?). I'm still not entirely convinced by that, to be honest. Isn't that a case of chance, rather than fact? Isn't the Wesleyan 'Villa' link just as possible? Happy to be told that's not the case and that you know for a fact about the Lozells link!

> The best explanation I've heard is that player & graphic designer Ollie Wheatley was asked to come up with a kit design.

Are there historical records to back up that claim? Sounds great, if correct.

> McGregor's Scottish background.

Yeah, that's commonly quoted - but, again, is that fact?

I know lots of clubs have similar issues. But we were very famous very quickly and it does seem odd that the specific answers to these questions are so shrouded in mystery. I mean, Hearts get their name from a song; Queen of the South take their name from the nickname for Dumfries.

I just think a name and colour scheme as beautiful as the Villa's must have a very strong history. It's strange it's faded over time.
Title: Degrees of separation
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 07, 2010, 10:11:33 PM
The Aston Villa area (itself named after a house) was a prestigious part of Lozells at the time - estate agents would advertise houses as being 'near Aston Villa'.

I believe there are records to back up the Ollie Wheatley story. I heard it from someone who has done a lot of research into the period.

The badge story is commonly accepted, and I've never heard another one.

Villa were just one of dozens of clubs in the area at the time. There are archives available but they've been lost and damaged over the years.
Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: eamonn on August 08, 2010, 02:23:01 AM
That can't really have been a Glenn Peen post, can it? Funny new forum.
Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: KevinGage on August 08, 2010, 02:51:00 AM
Distinct lack of brown.

Weren't Villa formed before Hearts anyway?

Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 08, 2010, 03:07:03 PM
Gabby Agbonlahor is a big fan of Dog the Bounty Hunter.

Archie Hunter played with George Ramsay.



Title: Re: Degrees of separation
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 08, 2010, 05:54:38 PM


Weren't Villa formed before Hearts anyway?



About the same time I think, both in 1874 anyway, although a book I was reading on Hearts a few years back claimed they were formed in 1873.  This book also said they were named after a local dance hall rather than the Walter Scott novel (although the dance hall would probably have been named after the novel anyway).
Hearts don't play in claret anyway, it's maroon.
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