Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: mshurst on July 29, 2010, 09:32:45 AM
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I didn't see this (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-plot-shock-move-for-Aston-Villa-star-Stiliyan-Petrov-as-Javier-Mascherano-replacement-Exclusive-article539217.html) coming.
Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson wants Aston Villa midfield general Stiliyan Petrov as the shock replacement for transfer-seeking Javier Mascherano.
Hodgson admires the Bulgarian star's style and is ready to pay around £7 million for him as he looks to cash in on Argentinian Mascherano by selling him to Inter Milan coach Rafa Benitez.
The Kop are looking to land both Petrov and right back Luke Young in a surprise double raid as they try to bring in seasons professionals for a demanding campaign.
Petrov, 30, is one of the Premier League's most respect operators and a key man for Martin O'Neill who brought him to Villa from Celtic where he was also a legend.
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It's not that surprising. And it won't be too surprising if he does go. If the interest is real indeed...
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http://www.heroesandvillains.info/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=37505
Hello.
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That one has caught me by surprise as well.
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I didn't see this (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-plot-shock-move-for-Aston-Villa-star-Stiliyan-Petrov-as-Javier-Mascherano-replacement-Exclusive-article539217.html) coming.
Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson wants Aston Villa midfield general Stiliyan Petrov as the shock replacement for transfer-seeking Javier Mascherano.
Hodgson admires the Bulgarian star's style and is ready to pay around £7 million for him as he looks to cash in on Argentinian Mascherano by selling him to Inter Milan coach Rafa Benitez.
The Kop are looking to land both Petrov and right back Luke Young in a surprise double raid as they try to bring in seasons professionals for a demanding campaign.
Petrov, 30, is one of the Premier League's most respect operators and a key man for Martin O'Neill who brought him to Villa from Celtic where he was also a legend.
Thanks for all your help at B6 Stan.
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i would sell him for that amount in a heartbeat... without a second thought...
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I'd drive him there myself for anything over £5M. Has done OK for us (although had two really slow seasons) but I think he is too slow and only effective when playing as one of five in midfield.
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Hang on. Lets not be tripping over ourselves to sell him. I admit that its a reasonable fee for him but ONLY if we have somebody as good and younger or better first. Otherwise we could be a bit thin on the ground when it comes to central midfielders.
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we could pick up manuel fernandes for that amount... instantly improving the midfield...
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Would it, he's had 3 brief loan spells in the prem yet no one has taken a punt on him yet. Petrov has helped us to 3 top 6 finishes, is the club captain and was supporters player of the year 12 months ago. It would mean selling our skipper to a direct league rival, albeit at a decent price for a 30 yr old. Would only do it if a direct replacement of Flamini's calibre is signed first and we know Milner is staying. With Delph injured I think we would be too unstable selling both Petrov and Milner no matter who comes in, especially with Sidders and NRC possible off to.
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flamini is another option...
personally, i think fernandes would improve the midfield instantly... an all round midfielder with pace and energy, good in the challenge, technically excellent, good passing... shooting leaves a lot to be desired, but as the holding player, he would tick all the boxes and then some...
also has premier league experience...
in my humble opinion, he would be an excellent addition to the first eleven, and would fit into our style of play instantly...
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No that's fine, when I've seen him a yr or 2 ago for Everton he looked a good player. He's been off my radar recently as I don't watch much foreign footie, but from what I've seen he would be a welcome addition to the squad, but i'd prefer Flamini if possible. I just can't jump on the "I'd drive Petrov to Liverpool myself" bandwagon as I think he has been generally very good for us the past 2 seasons. If he was going abroad it would be more palatable but I can see Liverpool overtaking us at any rate without us giving them another good player.
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Fernandes has never made much of an impact at Valencia and despite his experience in the premier league no one has really come in for him.
If we were to sell Stan I'd like better to replace him.
However, pretty much all of this is being covered in the main transfer thread and it's in the Mirror so it's bollocks.
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I wouldn't sell Petrov. I think he's among the best in his role in the league and we wouldn't get in anyone better for the money, only a raw young player who'd need to learn the game, adjust to his new team and, without Petrov, have no-one to learn from in the process.
Petrov's position is one where you really need to be in the team for a while, to learn what your team-mates do in certain situations, to understand what you're role is etc. There's no way we'd replace this instantly.
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Try and tempt Everton with a huge offer for Fellaini, he'd probably cost nearly as much as Milner, though.
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Would only do it if a direct replacement of Flamini's calibre is signed first and we know Milner is staying. With Delph injured I think we would be too unstable selling both Petrov and Milner no matter who comes in, especially with Sidders and NRC possible off to.
You got it. This time last year our central midfield looked very well stocked; at the moment, taking everything into consideration, it's looking pretty thin.
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Never been a fan of Petrov and wouldn't be too sad to see him go especially for 7m. As long as we get someone in to cover that position until Delph is fit again. Or NRC is given another chance.
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I'm not a fan of Petrov either. Too slow, beaten too easily for pace in his "holding" role. £7m - sell him as long as a replacement is lined up before he goes.
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I'm always amazed when people say they don't like Petrov. Pace? Who needs pace there, some the best holding players over the last few years - Alonso, Busquets, Senna, Makelele - never needed pace because they have or had supreme reading of the game. All the stats back up Petrov's quality, all the players, management, other clubs' thoughts and everything backs up how good he is, and yet some don't see it, would rather have a headless chicken like NRC in there. I just don't get it.
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Flamini and Ireland in the centre midfield in my view is better than Milner and Petrov and probs make a £25m+ profit in the process.
Think a midfield three of:
--------Flamini
Ireland--------Delph
For years to come would be brilliant.
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Sorry Monty but Stan gets beaten by skillful guys walking round him, let alone flying past him.
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Ajmant, that's just not backed up by any proof. Statistically he made the fifth highest amount of tackles last season, had the second highest success rate with tackling, has been among the highest interceptions for the last few years, everything. The 4-4-2 system is the problem, not Petrov. He does his job fine - he's just let down by the space around him.
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I'm always amazed when people say they don't like Petrov. Pace? Who needs pace there, some the best holding players over the last few years - Alonso, Busquets, Senna, Makelele - never needed pace because they have or had supreme reading of the game. All the stats back up Petrov's quality, all the players, management, other clubs' thoughts and everything backs up how good he is, and yet some don't see it, would rather have a headless chicken like NRC in there. I just don't get it.
Can you think of any Villa player that has been used in this position that hasn't been criticised in much the same fashion?
Draper and Boateng for example, both good players, were condemned with epithets such as sideways and crab and so on.
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Monty, we'll have to beg to differ on this. Maybe I see his faults as sometimes he really does get shown up and it's because he is isolated as you say, but for me he has never really delivered.
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I'm always amazed when people say they don't like Petrov. Pace? Who needs pace there, some the best holding players over the last few years - Alonso, Busquets, Senna, Makelele - never needed pace because they have or had supreme reading of the game. All the stats back up Petrov's quality, all the players, management, other clubs' thoughts and everything backs up how good he is, and yet some don't see it, would rather have a headless chicken like NRC in there. I just don't get it.
Can you think of any Villa player that has been used in this position that hasn't been criticised in much the same fashion?
Draper and Boateng for example, both good players, were condemned with epithets such as sideways and crab and so on.
I agree, and I also think that Petrov is arguably better than both of those, certainly better than Boateng. It's the old thing - people say they want us to keep the ball better, but moan about 'sideways passes'. You can't have it both ways.
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I'm always amazed when people say they don't like Petrov. Pace? Who needs pace there, some the best holding players over the last few years - Alonso, Busquets, Senna, Makelele - never needed pace because they have or had supreme reading of the game. All the stats back up Petrov's quality, all the players, management, other clubs' thoughts and everything backs up how good he is, and yet some don't see it, would rather have a headless chicken like NRC in there. I just don't get it.
Can you think of any Villa player that has been used in this position that hasn't been criticised in much the same fashion?
Draper and Boateng for example, both good players, were condemned with epithets such as sideways and crab and so on.
It's interesting. I know a fair few people on here would prefer us to move to a more passing style of play but just as many seem to view players who do short passing as crabs and such movement of the ball as pissing around.
For me, if we want to improve our style of play the midfield is key but Petrov is the one player who has the passing ability, technical ability and vision in our midfield yet he is considered a crab. Petrov's only issue is that he gets knackered. If we could substitute him it would help him no end. That's why he's important to us.
And Monty I agree 110% on what you say about Reo-Coker.
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Monty, we'll have to beg to differ on this. Maybe I see his faults as sometimes he really does get shown up and it's because he is isolated as you say, but for me he has never really delivered.
He was our best player two seasons ago, easily. Voted for by the players and the fans.
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Our midfield is shit. It has been ever since MON has taken over.
We've yet to have a good partnership in there.
I like Stan, he's a good player and I think he'd do very well at Liverpool. But the balance and shape in our midfield has been off for the last 4 years.
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7 million for Petrov.. Yes please
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I never said Stan was a crab in terms of his passing. I understand the need to retain the ball. We've been horrendous at doing that for a while and I wouldn't blame Stan for that, thats often the fault of the wingers and the front men.
I said Stan lacked pace. And he'll get slower.
As you said Monty 4 4 2 doesnt help him. But if we can get £7mil for him, I'd take it.
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I never said Stan was a crab in terms of his passing. I understand the need to retain the ball. We've been horrendous at doing that for a while and I wouldn't blame Stan for that, thats often the fault of the wingers and the front men.
I said Stan lacked pace. And he'll get slower.
As you said Monty 4 4 2 doesnt help him. But if we can get £7mil for him, I'd take it.
A perfectly reasonable opinion, and I didn't mean to drag you into the group of people who I think don't understand football. All I disagree with you on is that holding players, in my view, don't need pace. But we'll agree to disagree I think.
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I'll agreee to that Monty.
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To be defensive, no they don't need pace as it's more about reading of the game and positioning. However, if they are to be able to boss a game from that position they do need a bit more athleticism about them, such as keane and Viera had.
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I'm always amazed when people say they don't like Petrov. Pace? Who needs pace there, some the best holding players over the last few years - Alonso, Busquets, Senna, Makelele - never needed pace because they have or had supreme reading of the game. All the stats back up Petrov's quality, all the players, management, other clubs' thoughts and everything backs up how good he is, and yet some don't see it, would rather have a headless chicken like NRC in there. I just don't get it.
Can you think of any Villa player that has been used in this position that hasn't been criticised in much the same fashion?
Draper and Boateng for example, both good players, were condemned with epithets such as sideways and crab and so on.
I agree, and I also think that Petrov is arguably better than both of those, certainly better than Boateng. It's the old thing - people say they want us to keep the ball better, but moan about 'sideways passes'. You can't have it both ways.
Keeping the ball does not have to involve sideways or backwards passes almost every time. The objective is to get the ball forward and into the opponents net eventually and I don't think Stan, despite his passing ability, goes for a killer ball, or even a forward pass, often enough. One of the main strengths of our team is our pace on the break. Now it's often the case that poor movement of our team leaves Stan no option but to play the safe sideways option, but many times I've groaned when a break has been on and Stan has missed or passed up the opportunity. In any case if you stop, turn around and pass it to Cuellar, you're hardly likely to retain posession much longer. I think he plays it too safe too often.
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I think there are many types of 'holding' midfielders.
Titles from FM.
Ball winning midfielder - Like Mascherano. Tireless running around trying to win the ball or foul, however it's done just break up the play. I'd say NRC is a little like this. Not exactly the best players on the ball.
Deep Lying playmaker - Someone who sits deeper than the other midfielders, intercepts play, tires to read the game and then tries to create from deep, spraying passes wide and long range. Like Petrov and Tom Huddlestone for example
Defensive midfielder - Someone who does get a foot in win the ball back, and then give it to the closest bloke to try and do something with it. Someone like John Obi Mikel, Owen Hargreaves for example.
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I'd be sad to see him go, but time marches on and all that. Stan's best quality is his vision of pass, lying deep in his own half he can turn defence into counter attack with one pass.
Sadly his mandate is give it to a winger to cross for Gabby or big John.
If we continually played with 5 in the middle NRC could do all the dirty work and give the ball to a decent passer, who that would be I've no idea.
Replacement suggestions?
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Defensive midfielder - Someone who does get a foot in win the ball back, and then give it to the closest bloke to try and do something with it. Someone like John Obi Mikel, Owen Hargreaves for example.
A Defensive Midfielder, feeding a "Libero" would be great.
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If we got 7 mill that would be good business indeed. I like Stan, but in our system and style, he's a 60 minute player.
Under Hodgeson, at Liverpool, he'll have no worries about his legs. He'll get rested when needed, but generally he'll have less running anyhow. Woy got a hell of a lot out of Danny Murphy, when people had felt his legs went 3-4 years ago. But the key is ball retention, and not wearing yourself out in high tempo, 100mph football.
The main problem though is Martin No Deal. We could lose Sidwell, Petrov and Milner, and then find ourselves going into the season with only NRC as a fit CM. We'd need Mart to get a bloody move on, but at the same time, not settle for someone crap.
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The main problem though is Martin No Deal. We could lose Sidwell, Petrov and Milner, and then find ourselves going into the season with only NRC as a fit CM. We'd need Mart to get a bloody move on, but at the same time, not settle for someone crap.
There's always Osbourne.
It's OK, i'm sure Shorey or someone would be able to cover the position until January (when traditionally no-one sells their best players, so we'll have to wait til the summer).
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I just don't believe this story is true.
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Nor me. Liverpool wouldn't pay 7m for a soon to be 31 year old for a start in their financial state.
I like Stan aswell, he's grown into an important role in the team and also the club.
Plus selling him with Milner's future still in the air, Sidwell going and NRC going in a years time and Delph broken until Xmas dosen't leave our central midfield in good shape does it?
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Nor me. Liverpool wouldn't pay 7m for a soon to be 31 year old for a start in their financial state.
I like Stan aswell, he's grown into an important role in the team and also the club.
Plus selling him with Milner's future still in the air, Sidwell going and NRC going in a years time and Delph broken until Xmas dosen't leave our central midfield in good shape does it?
Absolutely agree.
It is from the Mirror for crissakes so it is almost certainly bollocks.
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I would dread to see stan go. not so much for his technical ability (which i do rate) but more so for his presence, influence and experience. We are a little in danger of loosing our identity. In recent seasons weve lost mellberg, laursen, barry...I think stan is in the 'general' sort of role at the club at the moment. Granted dunne and collins have potential but are still fresh at the club...
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This was in the mirror. With a hit rate of 1 in a hundred stories happening, it is safe to say Petrov will be Villa captain next season.
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I would dread to see stan go. not so much for his technical ability (which i do rate) but more so for his presence, influence and experience. We are a little in danger of loosing our identity. In recent seasons weve lost mellberg, laursen, barry...I think stan is in the 'general' sort of role at the club at the moment. Granted dunne and collins have potential but are still fresh at the club...
I agree matt - you've summed it up for me, it's his presence, he truly captains the team
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SELL, SELL, SELL.
£7M? If this story is true then get rid asap. Or a swap for Babel would be acceptable imo.
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SELL, SELL, SELL.
£7M? If this story is true then get rid asap. Or a swap for Babel would be acceptable imo.
Babel?! BABEL?!? My God, man, I'd rather have Mc-bloody-Geady.
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SELL, SELL, SELL.
£7M? If this story is true then get rid asap. Or a swap for Babel would be acceptable imo.
Babel?! BABEL?!? My God, man, I'd rather have Mc-bloody-Geady.
i have agreed with everything you have said re Petrov Monty,
but would love Babel at Villa, he's young and there is a class player in there waiting to get out, just got to believe he could flourish at VP,
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He's just got the worst attitude, and he's another headless chicken straight-line, head down dribbler. What we need is more composure, we've got the pace on the break and on the flanks, we need more craft and intelligence in the middle.
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right lets get rid of one of our most consistant players to be replaced by who exactly?
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right lets get rid of one of our most consistant players to be replaced by who exactly?
Well said. Consistency is such an underrated thing in football, and such a difficult thing in a league like the Premiership.
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He's just got the worst attitude, and he's another headless chicken straight-line, head down dribbler. What we need is more composure, we've got the pace on the break and on the flanks, we need more craft and intelligence in the middle.
I agree totally. I can't actually believe anyone thinks Babel is what we need. The sort of notion that leaves me utterly speechless really...
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Babel is a no for me too. He's rubbish.
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Babel is a no for me too. He's rubbish.
But he could be useful as a translator, provided MON sign some foreigners. As if he will.
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Babel ? He is about as useful as a chocolate tea-pot.
My god man, swap our captain for him? Yes, I know
Petrov has his limitations but that suggestion is laughable.
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Think this is crap journalism. He still can do a job for Villa. Would like Witsel. He looks perfect for Villa .....
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What we need is more composure, we've got the pace on the break and on the flanks, we need more craft and intelligence in the middle.
Yes.
I'd keep Petrov. We play him too much and MON needs to give serious consideration to how he's used, how often he's rested, whether our usual 4-4-2 system leaves him too isolated and overworked (it does) but for me, Petrov stays. Not saying he should be a nailed-on starter every time and I do recognise that he's now into his 30s and we need to be thinking of a long-term plan to succeed him. But bearing in mind everything else going on, the other areas of the team we need to consider, we should keep him.
He's currently the one guy we have in the front six positions who slows it down, puts his foot on the ball, aims to keep possession. I'd restructure the midfield so we have NRC (until a replacement/better player is signed) alongside him to ease the ball-winning burden and Milner (if he stays) slightly further forward.
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When good teams do not have the ball they set themselves up so that the team with the ball eventually play it to the weakest ball player in team. They do this by marking other players and press on the player with the ball.
All too frequently last season, Petrov fell into this trap by playing the easy sideways pass to Cuellar. This is exactly the pass the opposition want as they know that Cuellar will give them the ball, either by a poor pass or kicking into touch.
Petrov is not helped by the lack of good movement of other players. How often do we see players drop off their marker to receive a short pass. If it does happen it is usually only one player whereas it should be two or three to give the ball player options. However, as captain and senior player in the side, he should be demanding players to do this.
How often do you see Petrov beat a player. Too often he is willing to draw a foul 30m from his own goal, rather than drive on with the ball so as to draw another player to him, thus creating space.
Too many times last season he was either playing the ball sideways or going to ground too easily, thus leading to us giving the ball back to the opposition by poor passing or poor free kicks.
I am not saying he is a bad player but he is not the player to push on and improve the team, or, maintain the position we are now in. I'm afraid he is getting no younger and he cannot keep up with the demands of the modern game. There are players that are no quicker than Petrov that seem to be able to get around the pitch better and last the game. Whether this is by a better reading of the game, more concentration and therefore not on their heels when a ball is played, or what, I don't know.
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I doubt there are many players in the Prem who read the game better than Petrov, he makes countless crucial interceptions in games. I love the bloke, he binds our team together, we would miss him if he went. He has to play the Cuellar pass as we have the front five all taking risks going forward so we struggle enough for possession without Petrov trying to thread it through a needle, he does the simple stuff and does it well, can't blame him for us having a useless right back.
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Key thing here, I feel, is that long-term (or medium term) we need to be improving on Petrov but in terms of selling him this summer.... no.
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Key thing here, I feel, is that long-term (or medium term) we need to be improving on Petrov but in terms of selling him this summer.... no.
Agree with that. I have always said that we need a defensive midfield player, a right back and a central forward player. With the Milner situation and the need to clear non-playing squad players taking centre stage this transfer window, I would not let Petrov go this summer but look to improving the other two positions.
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I doubt there are many players in the Prem who read the game better than Petrov, he makes countless crucial interceptions in games. I love the bloke, he binds our team together, we would miss him if he went.
Occasionally, it's really nice to see that someone sees a player exactly the same as you. This is one of those times.
I think our younger players can learn so much from Stan and would hate to see him go. Fortunately the story's from The Broken Mirror and so am enclined to thinks its bobbins.
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After reading Petrov moving to the pool. Mad me realise how valuable he is to the team. Think he brings a lot to the younger players and is respected by the rest ............
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I'd let him go myself. I was of the mind we should've been replacing him this year anyway. I'll be panicking along with everyone when it gets to 30th August and he hasn't been replaced yet though!