Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: VillaZogmariner on July 25, 2010, 08:40:40 AM

Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: VillaZogmariner on July 25, 2010, 08:40:40 AM
...we were to see more of the younger players, notably Fonz, Albrighton, Bannan, Lichaj, Clark, Wiemann, Delph and Gardener more game time.

I'm not saying play all of them all of the time, but over the course of the season see the players play in 15-20 league games each.

Personally I would accept a mid table finish. The players I've listed above, from the little I have seen/read about them, will be very good players in the future, and if we can start to blood them in more now and build the side around them it will stand us better in the future.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: eastie on July 25, 2010, 09:35:47 AM
The kids will get games in the Europa but if he's still here I expect mon to continue with his policy of running the same 11 players into the ground , and only changing things due to injury or suspension.

Would I accept a midtable finish if the kids were blooded? Well in a word no, because having been the 3 rd highest net spenders according to the generals figures , we should be in a much better position, and for many things I blame the manager.

Fonz should have been the option on 70 mins rather than heskey continually , and I don't see our kids blossoming into the first team unless mr o neill vacates his seat.
Title: bring the kids through
Post by: darren woolley on July 25, 2010, 10:01:16 AM
I would'nt bring them through at the expense of our league position i would bring them through gradually.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Chris Harte on July 25, 2010, 10:04:12 AM
I think I would accept it.

The only visible benefit for us fans for finishing 6th yet again rather than 11th/12th would be European qualification, and lets face it, when push came to shove O'Neill showed that we was prepared to wave the white flag in Moscow.

And let's not even mention the pathetic showing in Europe last season.

And aside from that, maybe dropping back for a season may give us all some perspective regarding how decent a finish 6th actually is.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Slaphead on July 25, 2010, 10:09:19 AM
How many of our kids have been regular members of the first team over the years? Not many so it's not worth the sacrifice.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: German James on July 25, 2010, 10:24:54 AM
It would be good to involve the young players, supposedly coming though. Unfortuanately I think if we take our foot off the push for the top, it will be disproportionately difficult to make up that lost ground. Certainly making substitutions more varied than swapping Heskey for Carew would be a good thing anyway, and it's got to help the youngsters' confidence. If MON named an experimental starting line-up against Blackpool or Stoke and was able to change it if it went wrong, I'd welcome it. I'm not sure he could, though...
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Karl Bridges on July 25, 2010, 10:26:08 AM
I think we will be dropping back this season anyway, without question. We know Chelsea, Man U, and Arsenal are way ahead of us.

I think Woy will sort out Liverpool and they have more quality in their squad than we do. Man City have more quality and so do Everton. They all score more goals than us, so will win more games.

Spurs may suffer from the distractions of Champs League depending on how long they stay in it but we could be looking at 8th behind that lot anyway.

 I would definitely like to see the kids given a hell of a lot more time on the pitch. If we aren't going to be spending any money on players unless we sell, we need to see what we have got in terms of possible replacements before they have to be thrown in and have to sink or swim. It should have been happening last season already. It's one of the things that annoys me about MON.

It needs to start gradually with players being given 30 minutes here and there to take away the nerves and then they need to get the odd start based on what they've shown. If they look comfortable happy days, if they don't we can move them on and look at the next crop.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Surrey Villain on July 25, 2010, 10:30:50 AM
The 'kids' and other fringe players largely performed better yesterday than the first choice players and the chairman will have noticed that so will be asking why they are not playing in the Premier League if the regulars don't do the business.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2010, 10:37:10 AM
Its not a matter of "accept a mid-table finish", it looks just about a certainty regardless of whether "the kids" play more games.

I can't see Villa finishing above any one Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City, Spurs or Liverpool (I think that Hodgson will turn them around).

Therefore, it'll only take a minor slip for Villa to be passed by the likes of Everton, Fulham or Birmingham.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Chris Smith on July 25, 2010, 11:03:23 AM
No.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: villasjf on July 25, 2010, 11:05:36 AM
We are in the Best of the rest band anyway, give them a chance.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Rancid custard on July 25, 2010, 11:13:15 AM
I'd like to see them feature more this time round, I don't want us to keep losing good prospects (insert MON substitution/tactics gripe here) like Cahill.

I think the way to go would be every time the tactics called for it go to five in the middle to give Delph, Bannan more experience. Fonz should be starting whenever Gabby looks like he's out of form, or be brought on when he looks tired. If MON's going to stick with Cuellar at RB then when Collins is out of sorts Clark should come in.

That said I wouldn't mind if MON used all these players together in the early stages of Europa or the cups, they are the next generation.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Villa'Zawg on July 25, 2010, 11:17:40 AM
Perhaps we can set up one of those 0898 numbers and have the public text in the number of the player they want to play in our next game.

There's only a list of 25 players this season, 2 for each position and 3 goalies. This would wortk.

The fans get the team they want, we wouldn't need a manager and just think of all of that lovely premium text money for player wages.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: saunders_heroes on July 25, 2010, 11:18:33 AM
We'd probably be relegated if we played all those kids.
A lot of our fans tend to think we have we have brilliant players coming through the youth system, but they rarely ever amount to anything. It would be madness to play them all.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Karl Bridges on July 25, 2010, 11:35:03 AM
Quote from: "saunders_heroes"
We'd probably be relegated if we played all those kids.
A lot of our fans tend to think we have we have brilliant players coming through the youth system, but they rarely ever amount to anything. It would be madness to play them all.



I don't think anyone is saying play them all at the same time, that would be utter madness. Lets just see what they are made of with a bit more time in the first team. Bed them in gradually.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: TimTheVillain on July 25, 2010, 11:44:44 AM
I'd have to, but it would be hard to take and would seriously be the start of an inquest into Randy's ambitions / funds.

In some way it could be a good thing, as we could take stock and Randy may seek some re-investment capital by dilution.

If Randy's funds have dried up as I supsect, he must start to look at inward investment, surely.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Lucky Eddie on July 25, 2010, 11:52:32 AM
Sad fact is we're about eighty million pounds away from our next league winning campaign. I can't imagine any of our season ticket purchasers genuinely expect us to be pushing for the title.

Attacking football, particularly at home, will be key to MON finishing next season at Villa.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on July 25, 2010, 12:08:10 PM
No. It'd mean that the unprecedented money (in Villa terms) money put into team has been wasted. We'd be doing exceptionally well to  get two of the academy players established as first teamers who maintain a premiership level (our record over the last ten years is fairly poor).

If Albrighton doesn't break through this year I don't think he ever will (he's 21 this year), at least not for us, and we need to see how Delph emerges from that injury. They all need a chance dependent on their abilities but not at the expense of finishing amongst the Stokes and Birmighams of this world.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on July 25, 2010, 12:17:36 PM
I dont see these things as necessarily being  mutually exclusive. You bring in youngsters because you think they can do a job at that time to beat the opposition who are in front of you at that time.
In any case, I dont see how playing youngsters in a team which is then achieving sub standard performances and results would particularly help their development.
Please give historical examples of clubs which have followed a policy of throwing in youngsters and sacrificing results for a time to achieve later success. (Man U losing their first game of the season to us in the 90s doesnt count by the way)
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 25, 2010, 12:41:14 PM
I'll accept mid-table if we win the Cup.

Deal?
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Surrey Villain on July 25, 2010, 01:15:28 PM
Quote from: "cdvillafan"
I'll accept mid-table if we win the Cup.

Deal?


Any cup or THE Cup?
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
Not really, I think they should be phased in anyway. I don't think we can sacrifice league position for the sake of blooding young players. They should be brought in alongside the more senior players.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: MadJohnnyC on July 25, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Quote from: "UK Redsox"


Therefore, it'll only take a minor slip for Villa to be passed by the likes of Everton, Fulham or Birmingham.


WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP WHAT ON EARTH HAVE YOU BEEN DRINKING MAN !!!

I agree with most on here that at the time of writing 8th is about as good as its going to get. I'm not the slightest bit excited about the players we are being linked with, and I feel other teams are much better prepared than we are.

That said, Ive been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. So hopefully this is an example and we are all celebrating wildly come what May.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: TheSandman on July 25, 2010, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: "Karl Bridges"
I think we will be dropping back this season anyway, without question. We know Chelsea, Man U, and Arsenal are way ahead of us.

I think Woy will sort out Liverpool and they have more quality in their squad than we do. Man City have more quality and so do Everton. They all score more goals than us, so will win more games.

Spurs may suffer from the distractions of Champs League depending on how long they stay in it but we could be looking at 8th behind that lot anyway.

 I would definitely like to see the kids given a hell of a lot more time on the pitch. If we aren't going to be spending any money on players unless we sell, we need to see what we have got in terms of possible replacements before they have to be thrown in and have to sink or swim. It should have been happening last season already. It's one of the things that annoys me about MON.

It needs to start gradually with players being given 30 minutes here and there to take away the nerves and then they need to get the odd start based on what they've shown. If they look comfortable happy days, if they don't we can move them on and look at the next crop.


Absolutely spot on.

I'd also favour giving a talented youngster a shot ahead of an overpriced player who was brought in.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Pants on July 25, 2010, 03:54:29 PM
I'd just like to come away from Villa park, talking about goals & exciting young talent, our final league posistion is less important than having a buzz before and after a game which lets face it hasn't been there the last two seasons.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Surrey Villain on July 25, 2010, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: "Pants"
I'd just like to come away from Villa park, talking about goals & exciting young talent, our final league posistion is less important than having a buzz before and after a game which lets face it hasn't been there the last two seasons.


You're right!  The buzz has been replaced by a sick feeling in the stomach.
It's called fear.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on July 25, 2010, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: "Surrey Villain"
You're right!  The buzz has been replaced by a sick feeling in the stomach.
It's called fear.

Oh Christ.
Has he reformed VFC?
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 25, 2010, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: "Surrey Villain"
Quote from: "cdvillafan"
I'll accept mid-table if we win the Cup.

Deal?


Any cup or THE Cup?


Any proper Cup will do... Guadiana Cup doesn't count.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2010, 05:34:46 PM
If we were to slip back and console ourselves that the kids are looking good it would be three seasons wasted.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: supertom on July 25, 2010, 06:49:19 PM
Could our kids do better than the following:

Heskey
Sidwell
Shorey
Carlos (at right back)
Beye
?
Yes IMO.
I could probably go on. But why have middle of the road plodders, who aren't gonna get any better, as opposed to any decent kids. Without getting into position specifics, because it would seem we're lacking a standout young left back, and central midfielder (at least till Gardner is back from injury).

I think we have enough quality seniors in the team, plus 3-4 to join, and we can blood some youngsters too.

I also don't think we'd drop as low as 11th or 12th. We'd still push close with Everton for 7th-8th. We might even be better than previously for having a bit of youthful exuberence on our bench. Plus our former young fellas, Young and Gabby for example, are now stalwards. The likes of Friedel, Dunne, Petrov, Carew running thorug our spine, have been there and done it and continue doing the business.

I'd go with it. Lets try and bring through at least 4-5 of the young lads significantly this season. Though in that number I'd include Fonzie and Delph. They've got plenty of potential, which we need to be seeing now.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: boboonthecorner on July 25, 2010, 08:12:45 PM
Quote from: "saunders_heroes"
We'd probably be relegated if we played all those kids.
A lot of our fans tend to think we have we have brilliant players coming through the youth system, but they rarely ever amount to anything. It would be madness to play them all.


To be honest we sold the best youth player we've had in a long time to Bolton for £5m, and that still upsets me to this day.£5m, Martin what the fuck were you thinking???
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: junxs on July 25, 2010, 08:46:49 PM
Why? If any of them turned out to be any good then Man City would come knocking with a £24m bid.
I'd rather we just get the best squad together that we can and challenge for top 4 again.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Shrek on July 25, 2010, 08:58:51 PM
I don't think this is a fair pole, there is no midway. I'd like to do it the manure way lots of talent with lots of kids getting the chance!
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2010, 09:30:07 PM
Quote from: "gibbo"
I don't think this is a fair pole, there is no midway. I'd like to do it the manure way lots of talent with lots of kids getting the chance!


And how many kids have they brought through since 1995?
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Shrek on July 25, 2010, 09:38:22 PM
Quote from: "dave.woodhall"
Quote from: "gibbo"
I don't think this is a fair pole, there is no midway. I'd like to do it the manure way lots of talent with lots of kids getting the chance!


And how many kids have they brought through since 1995?


You missed the point, I said lots of kids get a chance, which they certainly do compared to Villa.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 25, 2010, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: "gibbo"
Quote from: "dave.woodhall"
Quote from: "gibbo"
I don't think this is a fair pole, there is no midway. I'd like to do it the manure way lots of talent with lots of kids getting the chance!


And how many kids have they brought through since 1995?


You missed the point, I said lots of kids get a chance, which they certainly do compared to Villa.


We've given plenty a chance, they just haven't been good enough.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: TheBarneyArmy on July 25, 2010, 09:53:00 PM
Why not give the kids a try, it would be good to see some fresh legs, and who knows, certain players, (petrov, heskey, downing) might get the kick up the backside they need if they see some competition for places. But this brings us onto the O'Neill tactics debate again.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Shrek on July 25, 2010, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: "dave.woodhall"
Quote from: "gibbo"
Quote from: "dave.woodhall"
Quote from: "gibbo"
I don't think this is a fair pole, there is no midway. I'd like to do it the manure way lots of talent with lots of kids getting the chance!


And how many kids have they brought through since 1995?


You missed the point, I said lots of kids get a chance, which they certainly do compared to Villa.


We've given plenty a chance, they just haven't been good enough.


I'm sorry but we do not give our youth team enough of a chance at all,

Alrighton was our best player in the peace cup, he hardly got a look in last season.

We need to start giving our first team a chance never mind our kids.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Shrek on July 25, 2010, 10:59:32 PM
Quote from: "TheBarneyArmy"
Why not give the kids a try, it would be good to see some fresh legs, and who knows, certain players, (petrov, heskey, downing) might get the kick up the backside they need if they see some competition for places. But this brings us onto the O'Neill tactics debate again.


just think if Martin had abit more bottle he could have tried Milner in the middle earlier, with Alrighton on the right,, resulting in less pressure on Downing when he was fit.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: junxs on July 26, 2010, 12:37:17 AM
Can't remember which game it was but towards the end of O'Learys spell one of the games we had 9 players of the match squad who were products of the youth team. That must have been close to a record of some sorts.

Samuel, Ridgewell*, Cahill, Davis, Barry*, Gardner, Hendrie, Agbonlahor, Moore

*I realise these aren't strictly part of our youth system but close enough.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Greg N'Ash on July 26, 2010, 01:21:12 AM
Personally i'd love a youth based team and if finished lower midtable, and we were informed that was the plan, then for a few seasons so be it.  It all comes down to if they're good enough. Anyone who's been on here for the last decade have all seen this and that player predicted for greatness and it doesn't happen. And MON doesn't seem particulary eager to the blood the current crop either. Although not strictly youth, Delph would obviously have seen a more involved role this season before the injury, and Allbrighton and the fonz need to start playing more soon if they have any chance. I guess its not my head on the block and its a brave manager who risks his job on the inconsistancy of kids
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 26, 2010, 09:38:32 AM
No.
What I would like to see is the youngsters given 20-30 minutes playing with the first team as against putting out the second eleven in the cups. The experience of playing with the regulars as opposed to 'the rest' should give the players better experience and a greater opportunity to shine.

Albrighton needs to be given a chance this season, Delph if and when he recovers from his injury and obviously the Fonz, although watching him at the weekend against a weakened U19 France team, he looks like he's still got a way to go.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: UsualSuspect on July 26, 2010, 09:47:17 AM
Quote from: "Pants"
I'd just like to come away from Villa park, talking about goals & exciting young talent, our final league posistion is less important than having a buzz before and after a game which lets face it hasn't been there the last two seasons.


I have posted something similar to this before. I watched 12 games last season and barring the Blackburm Semi the rest was just complete and utter tosh.

However when I said I would like to come away from the ground feeling like I had watched a decent game of football I was told I should "go and watch Albion"
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: peter w on July 26, 2010, 01:18:54 PM
No. I'd want the team to progress and I really don't care who's playing in order for that to happen.
Title: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on July 26, 2010, 02:37:26 PM
The fonz is the one player worth a punt on. He has proved at all levels and in the FA cup he can cut the mustard ..........
Title: Re: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: supertom on August 09, 2010, 09:05:40 PM
So, might we be heading this way? Looks like signings will be at a minimum. Any new manager is probably going to have to blood the kids. Macca may do it, depending on how long he's given at the helm.

Frankly the expectations now have plummeted. I don't see how getting the likes of Fonzie and Albrighton to play far more regularly could do us any harm. I think we've more than enough quality in the squad and within the youth, to finish mid-table.

Continue on with selling the likes of Sidwell.

Perhaps some good may come out of this. Any new boss will not have time to do anything this window and as such there may be litte option but to blood some youngens.
Title: Re: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Matt Collins on August 09, 2010, 10:09:54 PM
Yep, feel more pro this line of thinking under current circumstances.

I could be patient enough I think. But I suspect AY may not, and that's a concern.
Title: Re: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: villajoy on August 09, 2010, 11:07:23 PM
Mid table - happy to avoid relegation battle now!!
Title: Re: Would you accept a mid table finish this season if...
Post by: Monty on August 10, 2010, 12:15:43 AM
Mid table - happy to avoid relegation battle now!!

You might want to change your name with posts like that ;).
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