Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: PaulTheVillan on July 22, 2010, 08:20:48 PM
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Shame, I think he's class (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Aston-Villa-to-sell-Luke-Young-to-Fulham-on-the-cheap-following-training-camp-snub-article533835.html)
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Meh. Wants to go, has made up his mind, let's get what we can.
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Yeah, he seems desperate to get away.
Wonder if we'll find out the truth once he's gone.
Hope we find a right back who is as good.
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Good right backs seem hard to come by these days.
In particular for our manager but hey ho.
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Someone else treated badly by MON. The list is building
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I don't blame him one bit. The way he has been treated has been a joke. Mon doesnt deserve players of his calibre if he cant treat/use them properly.
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Two years prevaricating by O'Neill before making the purchase and then seemed determined to piss him off.
There must be a greater reason but I for one can't see it.
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Good player but doesn't want to be here anymore. I liked him, but let him go.
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This is where I think O'Neill is the biggest retard ever. Why would he want to sell our best right-back? It's madness really, Luke Young is a solid right-back who has never had a bad game for us. What other manager would get rid of his best right-back and use a centre-back to play right-back (not very well) instead?
This is where Randy should step in and tell O'Neill is in the wrong.
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A football club is no different from any large business in that it brings together a group of personalities that have to work together come what may. It also has the same problem of people wanting to leave for pastures new, or holding grudges, or having massive bust-ups. Who knows what's happened here? For all we know it might not be the manager at fault.
But I agree, the misuse of the player is bizarre.
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Good player but doesn't want to be here anymore. I liked him, but let him go.
The only reason he doesn't want to be here though is because our manager has made it clear he isn't going to bloody well use him.
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Good player but doesn't want to be here anymore. I liked him, but let him go.
I think it's more a case of a good player who doesnt want to play for Mon anymore. As "Phil from the Upper Holte" commented , the list is growing.
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he wasnt used anyway, so while a good player, it wont affect us from last season....
hopefully it doesnt mean more of cuellar at right back again...
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Shame. think he's better than cuellar at rightback and he's pretty damm good at leftback too. Will never undesrtand what went on there apart from MON not liking modern rightback play.
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i think he is allergic to right backs...
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I will be sad to see him go. But if its true that he has refused to go on a training camp - sorry Luke, you have gone down in my estimation. That's not professional behaviour.
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Someone else treated badly by MON. The list is building
It appears MON's days are numbered according to the headline in the Mirror.. Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Villa-eager-to-work-with-Guardiola-article533857.html/url)
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Shame. think he's better than cuellar at rightback and he's pretty damm good at leftback too. Will never undesrtand what went on there apart from MON not liking modern rightback play.
It's funny greg as it was not quite the same at Celtic. He seemed to have a problem with left backs there. I recall that he tended to select Valgaeren there for Celtic.
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Anyone and everyone can see that Carlos is not a right back, defensively
its fine but as he wont go over the half way line it un balances the team and whoever is on the right side does not get any help, there is no overlapping to distract the opposition.
I cant see the point in MON buying another right back
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Hasn't done much wrong as far as I can see.
Signed as a RB, where he'd been Player of the Year at his previous club and on the fringes of England selection. But played a large chunk of even his first campaign with us at LB - as MON didn't fancy his other signing for that role (Shorey).
Still did well enough to be one of our most consistent performers in 2008/09, in the top 3 I'd say.
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I hope he gets a hero's reception when he returns to Villa Park with his new club. Just to piss right-back hater O'Neill off.
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I think the main problem with Carlos at RB is that it deprives the team of our best centre half!
I would love to see an attacking right back signed rather than seeing Carlos painfully playing the role of the square peg.
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I'll certainly be sad to see him go. I'm just glad the Villa fans gave him a good send off on the last day of the season.
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Shame. think he's better than cuellar at rightback and he's pretty damm good at leftback too. Will never undesrtand what went on there apart from MON not liking modern rightback play.
It's funny greg as it was not quite the same at Celtic. He seemed to have a problem with left backs there. I recall that he tended to select Valgaeren there for Celtic.
he doesn't like how they play i reckon. He wants yer old fashioned type, not the attacking minded type that are the norm now, hence the central defenders who don't want to go forward. Some can adapt to that like Warnock, others can't like shorey and young.
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I cant see the point in MON buying another right back
Are you mad? If we lose Young and Beye, who's going to sit on the bench.
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Of the six players we supposedly want to offload there are two most of us want to keep in Luke Young and Nigel Reo-Coker's only sin is to seemingly have fallen out with our manager.
Surely they could try to get past that? I mean you don't have to have a great friendship between player and manager. See for example Ferguson and some of his player. Indeed, if you read Cloughie's book he didn't seem to have much regard for O'Neill.
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I cant see the point in MON buying another right back
Are you mad? If we lose Young and Beye, who's going to sit on the bench.
Guzan is practising his long throw-ins as we speak.
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I cant see the point in MON buying another right back
Are you mad? If we lose Young and Beye, who's going to sit on the bench.
LOL very good Mark.......I would say NRC, Allbrighton, the Fonz, Brad Jnr
and Big John have got their season tickets on the bench already
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I just think it's down to Luke at the end of the day, and I think the unfortunate death of his half-brother is the main reason.
Lest not forget he retired early from International Football.
A player who will be given warm applause when he returns next season.
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I just think it's down to Luke at the end of the day, and I think the unfortunate death of his half-brother is the main reason.
Lest not forget he retired early from International Football.
A player who will be given warm applause when he returns next season.
I agree with the above iro his brother but its not his fault if the manager will not pick him
He would have gone to the World Cup no doubt and if he had shown any form may have ousted Johnson
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Another MON signing that we'll get less than half what we paid for . . .
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The summer gets more depressing by the day.
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aye. how much does a rightback who's good on the left as well cost? more than we'll get for him i bet.
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Didn't know he was 31. Even if he had been committed to the cause, we would have had limited time.
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Didn't know he was 31. Even if he had been committed to the cause, we would have had limited time.
Where is your proof that he is "not committed to the cause"
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This one will forever be a mystery to me.
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Didn't know he was 31. Even if he had been committed to the cause, we would have had limited time.
What? 4-5 more years.
..king mad from MON!
I'm really pissed off with this.
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Didn't know he was 31. Even if he had been committed to the cause, we would have had limited time.
Where is your proof that he is "not committed to the cause"
The fact that he hasn't travelled to Ireland with us? If this article is correct.
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Didn't know he was 31. Even if he had been committed to the cause, we would have had limited time.
Where is your proof that he is "not committed to the cause"
He wants to move. Not that I blame him when your manager would rather move a centre back who can't pass to a man 5 yards in front of him than play him.
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Didn't know he was 31. Even if he had been committed to the cause, we would have had limited time.
Where is your proof that he is "not committed to the cause"
The fact that he hasn't travelled to Ireland with us? If this article is correct.
More likely MON hasnt picked him in the squad
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As Villa are away Luke should take the opportunity to go into Martin's office and shit in the top drawer of his desk!
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Pity, but if he doesn't want to be here and the relationship isn't working out, then its fair enough.
I think he'll be easy to replace if we could cast our eye to the continent for just a moment.
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As Villa are away Luke should take the opportunity to go into Martin's office and shit in the top drawer of his desk!
I'd get a load of old fish and rub it against the walls secreting the smelly juice all over the walls. I'd also see if there were any places that were difficult to get into and leave some fish in there to rot.
Martin arrives back from Ireland: 'Phew that is an horrendous, truly horrendous odour emanating from my office.'
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I'm sure every club has situations like this. Players purchased that mysteriously end up leaving without really kicking a ball. There's always some behind there scenes stuff that we don't know about out. MON needs to answer a lot here, but I doubt Luke Young's an angel.
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Pity, but if he doesn't want to be here and the relationship isn't working out, then its fair enough.
I think he'll be easy to replace if we could cast our eye to the continent for just a moment.
Agreed.
I'm sure there are plenty of foreign players that would love to come to the Villa, get paid £40k a week to sit on a bench for 90 minutes once a week.
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I'm sure every club has situations like this. Players purchased that mysteriously end up leaving without really kicking a ball. There's always some behind there scenes stuff that we don't know about out. MON needs to answer a lot here, but I doubt Luke Young's an angel.
I agree but to be honest Luke would deserve a bit of time and space over the death of his brother. If Martin did not give him a bit of latitude because of that then it's pretty shabby.
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I'm sure every club has situations like this. Players purchased that mysteriously end up leaving without really kicking a ball. There's always some behind there scenes stuff that we don't know about out. MON needs to answer a lot here, but I doubt Luke Young's an angel.
I agree but to be honest Luke would deserve a bit of time and space over the death of his brother. If Martin did not give him a bit of latitude because of that then it's pretty shabby.
Hold on. I remember at the time that the club were brilliant over that, and gave him all the time he needed to get over it. I don't think that's it at all. I think there's something else, and probably footballing reasons which they disagreed on. Something you probably can't blame him for if it is what we think it is. The question is how did he handle it, and how did MON respond?
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I'm sure every club has situations like this. Players purchased that mysteriously end up leaving without really kicking a ball. There's always some behind there scenes stuff that we don't know about out. MON needs to answer a lot here, but I doubt Luke Young's an angel.
I agree but to be honest Luke would deserve a bit of time and space over the death of his brother. If Martin did not give him a bit of latitude because of that then it's pretty shabby.
Hold on. I remember at the time that the club were brilliant over that, and gave him all the time he needed to get over it. I don't think that's it at all. I think there's something else, and probably footballing reasons which they disagreed on. Something you probably can't blame him for if it is what we think it is. The question is how did he handle it, and how did MON respond?
Sorry. I'm not being particular clear.
I mean it may have had a profound effect upon Luke and may have led to him having a disagreement with Martin over football reasons or whatever because his mind wasn't quite right. I'm saying that Martin should have given him a bit of latitude over the disagreement because of the kind of place his head was in. It does take a long time for some people to get over the death of a relative.
Then again I'm speculating over something hypothetical that I have very limited knowledge of the facts of.
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Good player, I am starting in a gradual way to wonder what Martin has against specilaist right backs.
Young L, is just a missed opportunity to see what one looks like.
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I'm sure every club has situations like this. Players purchased that mysteriously end up leaving without really kicking a ball. There's always some behind there scenes stuff that we don't know about out. MON needs to answer a lot here, but I doubt Luke Young's an angel.
I remember Brian Clough buying John Sheridan for Forest, who was very highly rated at the time, and then hardly ever played him.
As for Young, refusing to travel on a pre-season tour is a bit naughty, seeing as he's very well paid. It's a shame it's has'nt worked out, as he's a very good footballer.
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Ill buck the trend and say he is just ok as far as I'm concerned. I've never seen what others see in him to be honest...
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Pity, but if he doesn't want to be here and the relationship isn't working out, then its fair enough.
I think he'll be easy to replace if we could cast our eye to the continent for just a moment.
How? The 'manager' has failed miserably for 4 years to find a right back so why would you have any confidence now?
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The summer gets more depressing by the day.
I remember saying that very phrase in both 2008 and 2009.
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
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As Villa are away Luke should take the opportunity to go into Martin's office and shit in the top drawer of his desk!
I'd get a load of old fish and rub it against the walls secreting the smelly juice all over the walls. I'd also see if there were any places that were difficult to get into and leave some fish in there to rot.
Martin arrives back from Ireland: 'Phew that is an horrendous, truly horrendous odour emanating from my office.'
Don't talk about Robbie keane like that :0)
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
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Real shame... he is class...had a really hard year.. wouldnt f been suprised if he hung his boots up.. nice to know he wants to carry on... he wants out.. i don't blame him he could get in most half decent teams first eleven....
good luck luke....you became a fans favourite here i think its fair yo say.....
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Maloney did. I know as I posted the thread.
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Maloney did. I know as I posted the thread.
Didn't know that. Can you find it 'cos I'd be interested to take a butcher's.
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Pity, but if he doesn't want to be here and the relationship isn't working out, then its fair enough.
I think he'll be easy to replace if we could cast our eye to the continent for just a moment.
How? The 'manager' has failed miserably for 4 years to find a right back so why would you have any confidence now?
That doesn't make any sense.
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I thought the cheering when he came on, and subsequently whenever he touched the ball, in the last game of the season was very pointed indeed.
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Maloney did. I know as I posted the thread.
Didn't know that. Can you find it 'cos I'd be interested to take a butcher's.
Can't believe I actually found it!
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=1113862&highlight=maloney#1113862
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Maloney did. I know as I posted the thread.
and Baros and Cahill complained about his lack of availability to discuss his grievances
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Maloney did. I know as I posted the thread.
Didn't know that. Can you find it 'cos I'd be interested to take a butcher's.
Can't believe I actually found it!
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=1113862&highlight=maloney#1113862
That isn't pretty reading, is it?
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thats what worries me about MON. If you totally fall out with a player because you think he's had a shite game, you're going to have a high turnover of players leaving. Probably explains Young, Shorey et...
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Maloney did. I know as I posted the thread.
Didn't know that. Can you find it 'cos I'd be interested to take a butcher's.
Can't believe I actually found it!
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=1113862&highlight=maloney#1113862
That isn't pretty reading, is it?
No, not in the slightest. I was looking it up online to see if there was a direct quote regarding Maloney's chance by O'Neill but I don't think it matters really. Maloney had failed him, ergo he was persona non grata.
The strange thing is that Maloney seems to say a lot more by his circumspection. Although there is a lack of detail about his and O'Neill's relationship, O'Neill still comes out of it looking like an ultra shit.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
My ex-girlfriend used to call him Donkey Legs. Because he was a donkey and he, well, had legs.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
I kind of agree with you, in the sense that he was obviously a player who didn't feel able to perform outside his comfort zone, ie that with which he was familiar.
However, I thought he was a decent player, and at times we saw it. In MON's mistake list, he's down towards the bottom, if only because we got more for him than we paid for him, and he wasn't here that long to sap wages.
It isn't nice to read that sort of thing about the way the manager treated him, though.
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The way he took those two goals at Stamford Bridge on Boxing Day '07 showed why he was a player with such potential.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
He must have known what Maloney was like from his time at Celtic. OK Maloney was an overly sensitive little soul, but there's no point buying a young player like that then treating him in a way you know he'll react badly to.
For a so called motivational expert, O'Neill really isn't much of a people person.
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Another good player, oh well.
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The way he took those two goals at Stamford Bridge on Boxing Day '07 showed why he was a player with such potential.
And - this is the sad bit - maybe if the manager hadn't decided to blank him for three months, we might have got the best out of him.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
He must have known what Maloney was like from his time at Celtic. OK Maloney was an overly sensitive little soul, but there's no point buying a young player like that then treating him in a way you know he'll react badly to.
For a so called motivational expert, O'Neill really isn't much of a people person.
This little topic puts me in mind of a PE teacher I used to have. If you were one of his guys and you obviously had the ability, you'd always be okay. But if your face didn't fit or you were capable of a bit of independent thought, he would make your life a misery.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
He must have known what Maloney was like from his time at Celtic. OK Maloney was an overly sensitive little soul, but there's no point buying a young player like that then treating him in a way you know he'll react badly to.
For a so called motivational expert, O'Neill really isn't much of a people person.
This little topic puts me in mind of a PE teacher I used to have. If you were one of his guys and you obviously had the ability, you'd always be okay. But if your face didn't fit or you were capable of a bit of independent thought, he would make your life a misery.
MON been a PE teacher makes so much sense.
Thick, rude and mean!
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Another note of concern to me is that mon rarely attends training sessions so I believe, another of cloughies traits, I doubt he took too kindly to carlos saying he would like to play centre half this season either-upset him at your peril!
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And the Mark Kelly 'get me a Coach, and quickly' call seems pretty much on the money.
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What's most funny about it is that unlike others like Sorensen, Maloney at least takes his share of the blame.
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Another note of concern to me is that mon rarely attends training sessions so I believe, another of cloughies traits, I doubt he took too kindly to carlos saying he would like to play centre half this season either-upset him at your peril!
He ended up playing CB with the kids and dead men walking at Basingstoke last week after those comments.
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Another note of concern to me is that mon rarely attends training sessions so I believe, another of cloughies traits, I doubt he took too kindly to carlos saying he would like to play centre half this season either-upset him at your peril!
He ended up playing CB with the kids and dead men walking at Basingstoke last week after those comments.
god i hope thats just a coincidence. A season of Cuellar being ignored, collins at right back while Davies is brought into the centre is too painful to contemplate
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Another note of concern to me is that mon rarely attends training sessions so I believe, another of cloughies traits, I doubt he took too kindly to carlos saying he would like to play centre half this season either-upset him at your peril!
He ended up playing CB with the kids and dead men walking at Basingstoke last week after those comments.
god i hope thats just a coincidence. A season of Cuellar being ignored, collins at right back while Davies is brought into the centre is too painful to contemplate
Now, now Greg. We all know it will be Davies at right-back.
And rather than Cuellar's passing every time the ball goes near him Curtis god bless him will cack it and smash the ball away meaning some poor sod in the Upper Holte or North will need to get treated by the St. John's ambulance folks for concussion.
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I won’t criticise O’Neill over Maloney. All the Prozac in the world couldn’t put a smile on the miserable buggers face.
He must have known what Maloney was like from his time at Celtic. OK Maloney was an overly sensitive little soul, but there's no point buying a young player like that then treating him in a way you know he'll react badly to.
For a so called motivational expert, O'Neill really isn't much of a people person.
This little topic puts me in mind of a PE teacher I used to have. If you were one of his guys and you obviously had the ability, you'd always be okay. But if your face didn't fit or you were capable of a bit of independent thought, he would make your life a misery.
The rising of the sun made wee Shaun's life miserable.
I accept your point to a degree Risso, he should have known that he was terminally morose, but unless you include psychological evaluations in the medical, then you’re never going to know that a player will end up being so chronically homesick too.
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Davies has no positional sense.. you could never work out where he was supposed to be playing. half the time he was further to the right than Young so he might as well get the rightback gig.
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What a fucking waste. I find this almost as depressing as the Milner thing.
He's not the best right back ever, he's not the future of this club, but he's a decent pro who's rarely let us down. And he just been dumped.
His replacement better be good Martin.
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What a fucking waste. I find this almost as depressing as the Milner thing.
He's not the best right back ever, he's not the future of this club, but he's a decent pro who's rarely let us down. And he just been dumped.
His replacement better be good Martin.
You assume he'll be replaced?
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As Mark said, some poor sod has to sit on the bench in the full knowledge he'll never get on.
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I wonder how much of this might be James Nursey realising today might be a good time to dump on Martin a bit.
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If the cap fits...
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Someone else treated badly by MON. The list is building
I may be old fashioned but isnt the player supposed to impress the manager?
Maybe Luke was too busy counting his £????? pay roll to actually think about training hard and wanting to play for his employee.
Your thoughts will be interesting to read.
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Someone else treated badly by MON. The list is building
I may be old fashioned but isnt the player supposed to impress the manager?
Maybe Luke was too busy counting his £????? pay roll to actually think about training hard and wanting to play for his employee.
Your thoughts will be interesting to read.
A) Wouldn't Luke struggle to impress a manager who seldom watches him train?
B) Luke has gone on record as saying he doesn't think he's been treated fairly or been judged by the same criteria as other players the club. He may not be the most reliable source but...
C) He's a player who has been remarked as being a good honest and solid pro wherever he's been.
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Luke's been set up to fail here. The fans had been calling for a proper right back for a while. So MoN stuck him in on the right against Chelsea, put Milner in front of him then gave Milner a free role, utterly exposing Young. We all know what happened then.
I've had enough of O'Neill now. I think this is the straw that broke the camels back. The sooner he's gone, the better. He's way way too pig headed and stuck in some old-fashioned 'Clough-wanabe' world.
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Martin O'Neill, you are not Brian Clough.
And repeat.
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Martin O'Neill, you are not Brian Clough.
And repeat.
He's not fit to lick his boots.
He fancies himself as a Clough but doesn't have a fraction of the talent.
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I thought the days of being a depressed Villa fan has long gone by...but recent events...*sighs*
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Luke's been set up to fail here. The fans had been calling for a proper right back for a while. So MoN stuck him in on the right against Chelsea, put Milner in front of him then gave Milner a free role, utterly exposing Young. We all know what happened then.
I've had enough of O'Neill now. I think this is the straw that broke the camels back. The sooner he's gone, the better. He's way way too pig headed and stuck in some old-fashioned 'Clough-wanabe' world.
I'm all too willing to join in any anti-MON posts but this one is way off the mark. Luke Young was probably the one player who come away with any credit if any could be given. he had a half decent game.
What you should have pointed out is that after the whole team were shite, luke Young seemed to be the one singled out to be dropped. We did win our next game though, and then went on a decent run. But that would have happened with luke Young in the team anyway as a reaction to that defeat.
Something more has happened. i reckon that Luke Young has gone into the manager and said that he was unhappy at left-back, had words, and that's him done for.
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Luke's been set up to fail here. The fans had been calling for a proper right back for a while. So MoN stuck him in on the right against Chelsea, put Milner in front of him then gave Milner a free role, utterly exposing Young. We all know what happened then.
I've had enough of O'Neill now. I think this is the straw that broke the camels back. The sooner he's gone, the better. He's way way too pig headed and stuck in some old-fashioned 'Clough-wanabe' world.
I'm all too willing to join in any anti-MON posts but this one is way off the mark. Luke Young was probably the one player who come away with any credit if any could be given. he had a half decent game.
What you should have pointed out is that after the whole team were shite, luke Young seemed to be the one singled out to be dropped. We did win our next game though, and then went on a decent run. But that would have happened with luke Young in the team anyway as a reaction to that defeat.
Something more has happened. i reckon that Luke Young has gone into the manager and said that he was unhappy at left-back, had words, and that's him done for.
I think you are probably spot on peter.
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Peter, that's exactly what I meant. He was held up as a scapegoat by MoN which was his intention from the start.
I feel terrible for him as I can see nothing that he's done wrong.
I also wrote that before I saw the James Milner thread so you can imagine how pissed off I am now with O'Neill.
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Martin O'Neill, you are not Brian Clough.
And repeat.
He's not fit to lick his boots.
He fancies himself as a Clough but doesn't have a fraction of the talent.
He seems to have taken on all of the bad things about Clough, and none of the good.
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Martin O'Neill, you are not Brian Clough.
And repeat.
He's not fit to lick his boots.
He fancies himself as a Clough but doesn't have a fraction of the talent.
He seems to have taken on all of the bad things about Clough, and none of the good.
Maybe we're looking in the wrong area. Maybe the problem is that John Robertson is no Peter Taylor.
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The whole Clough thing strikes me a facile.
Any player is going to be influenced to a certain extent by those that they played under but I don't see anything more than a superficial similarity between the two.
It's clear he's not a manager who needs to be friends with his players and has that old fashioned you're either with me or against me attitude which in these days of player power often works against him but I see nothing of any substance to suggest that he wants to be Brian Clough.
Luke Young is a decent player, not at the level some make out but good enough, but he must know that MON isn't a manger you cross if you want to have a future. To have spoken out 2 or 3 times in the press against him, to have turned down the opportunity to play for England and to cap it all off by refusing to travel to Ireland with the squad then he really has only got himself to blame.
Like it or not, MON is the boss and players should know that they do it his way.
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What has his turning down England got to do with it?
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Whatever you may think of him O'Neill is his own man, no doubt influenced by Clough and others, but very much his own man.
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What has his turning down England got to do with it?
Just my perception of MON is that he would think that players should take it as an honour to be picked for their country and that it reflects well on the club when they are. I might be wrong.
The main point is that Luke Young has blotted his copybook a number of times and unless he's totally thick would be aware that MON is not the sort of manager to take that lightly.
In any job you know what is and isn't acceptable to your boss and the consequences of transgressing. Whether MON's approach is the right or not isn't the issue, Luke Young knew the score so can have few complaints. The manager has to be the boss and has to be seen to be the boss.
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What has his turning down England got to do with it?
Just my perception of MON is that he would think that players should take it as an honour to be picked for their country and that it reflects well on the club when they are. I might be wrong.
The main point is that Luke Young has blotted his copybook a number of times and unless he's totally thick would be aware that MON is not the sort of manager to take that lightly.
In any job you know what is and isn't acceptable to your boss and the consequences of transgressing. Whether MON's approach is the right or not isn't the issue, Luke Young knew the score so can have few complaints. The manager has to be the boss and has to be seen to be the boss.
I honestly do not think that O'Neill would give a toss about a player retiring from international football, as it would obviously be of benefit to Villa. Especially when that player is 30 years old or over.
I agree though about O'Neill being the boss, but all these crticisms of O'neill from players are chipping away at his public persona little by little. In my opinion he's gone from being thought of as a great boss to work for, and the possible heir apparent to Alex Ferguson, to a really unlikeable pain in the arse, who is getting out of his depth at Villa.
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What has his turning down England got to do with it?
Just my perception of MON is that he would think that players should take it as an honour to be picked for their country and that it reflects well on the club when they are. I might be wrong.
I think you might be. Petrov refused to play for Bulgaria under Stoichkov, didn't he?
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I don't see anything more than a superficial similarity between the two.
It's clear he's not a manager who needs to be friends with his players and has that old fashioned you're either with me or against me attitude which in these days of player power often works against him but I see nothing of any substance to suggest that he wants to be Brian Clough.
You don't see much similarity yet you go on to list two classic Clough traits. Traits that, as you acknowledge, don't go down well with players these days, and in Clough's case at Leeds, didn't always go down too well back then either.
*Edit* And just after you listed another one!
Just my perception of MON is that he would think that players should take it as an honour to be picked for their country and that it reflects well on the club when they are. I might be wrong.
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A random snippet off the web:
Martin O'Neill says he learnt invaluable lessons from Brian Clough about how to handle players.
Aston Villa boss O'Neill said: "I remember saying to him if Nottingham Forest didn't match my ambition I would be off.
"He told me to f**k off then. I f****d off to the reserves and he called me back about four months later and said: 'Are you still here'."
If only he'd leant invaluable lessons from Brian Clough about passing the ball about, and signing players like Roy Keane.
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Martin O'Neill, you are not Brian Clough.
And repeat.
He's not fit to lick his boots.
He fancies himself as a Clough but doesn't have a fraction of the talent.
I'm reading Big Ron's autobiography atm and he says in there that he wouldn't reccomend ANYONE takes Clougies style of managment and bearing in mind that was written before MON came to Villa.
He describes his managment style and its a carbon copy of Martin
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A random snippet off the web:
Martin O'Neill says he learnt invaluable lessons from Brian Clough about how to handle players.
Aston Villa boss O'Neill said: "I remember saying to him if Nottingham Forest didn't match my ambition I would be off.
"He told me to f**k off then. I f****d off to the reserves and he called me back about four months later and said: 'Are you still here'."
If only he'd leant invaluable lessons from Brian Clough about passing the ball about, and signing players like Roy Keane.
And then losing them to the bigger clubs as soon as they sniff around? yep. he's got that covered then.
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I don't see anything more than a superficial similarity between the two.
It's clear he's not a manager who needs to be friends with his players and has that old fashioned you're either with me or against me attitude which in these days of player power often works against him but I see nothing of any substance to suggest that he wants to be Brian Clough.
You don't see much similarity yet you go on to list two classic Clough traits. Traits that, as you acknowledge, don't go down well with players these days, and in Clough's case at Leeds, didn't always go down too well back then either.
*Edit* And just after you listed another one!
Just my perception of MON is that he would think that players should take it as an honour to be picked for their country and that it reflects well on the club when they are. I might be wrong.
As I said there are superficial similarities but Clough was more of a coach where MON isn't, Clough was a massive self publicist where MON is less so, Clough was confontaional with other managers where MON isn't.
I think it's just a lazy comparison.
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Someone else treated badly by MON. The list is building
I may be old fashioned but isnt the player supposed to impress the manager?
Maybe Luke was too busy counting his £????? pay roll to actually think about training hard and wanting to play for his employee.
Your thoughts will be interesting to read.
I think The Sandman summed it up perfectly for me to be honest.
Luke to me has never shown anything other than total commitment, After he had some time off for his brothers funeral he has been completely overlooked. Im not sayin the two are related but its an observation.
He has even commented that no matter what he does he feels he will be overlooked, why would he say it if its not the truth?
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What has his turning down England got to do with it?
Just my perception of MON is that he would think that players should take it as an honour to be picked for their country and that it reflects well on the club when they are. I might be wrong.
The main point is that Luke Young has blotted his copybook a number of times and unless he's totally thick would be aware that MON is not the sort of manager to take that lightly.
In any job you know what is and isn't acceptable to your boss and the consequences of transgressing. Whether MON's approach is the right or not isn't the issue, Luke Young knew the score so can have few complaints. The manager has to be the boss and has to be seen to be the boss.
I honestly do not think that O'Neill would give a toss about a player retiring from international football, as it would obviously be of benefit to Villa. Especially when that player is 30 years old or over.
I agree though about O'Neill being the boss, but all these crticisms of O'neill from players are chipping away at his public persona little by little. In my opinion he's gone from being thought of as a great boss to work for, and the possible heir apparent to Alex Ferguson, to a really unlikeable pain in the arse, who is getting out of his depth at Villa.
I agree that the criticisms are chipping away but to me that's largely down to the spoiled brats who masquerade as footballers these days.
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It may be just me, but to my eyes Luke's never looked 'right' since that unfortunate episode with his brother. His eyes look dazed and regardless of what some folks think, I don't think he's played well since.
I think someone even suggested he came out with some credit in the Stamford Bridge massacre. As someone who was there I couldn't disagree more. He was shocking all afternoon.
He's not a world beater. He's also 31. If he goes, he goes. Its not the end of the world.
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I agree that the criticisms are chipping away but to me that's largely down to the spoiled brats who masquerade as footballers these days.
Maybe so, but all footballers are spoiled brats. People tried to argue that Saint Milner was better than the rest, but it was of course nonsense. If he can't deal with spoiled brats, then he belongs to a past era. Which is what I've said all along.
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I agree that the criticisms are chipping away but to me that's largely down to the spoiled brats who masquerade as footballers these days.
Maybe so, but all footballers are spoiled brats. People tried to argue that Saint Milner was better than the rest, but it was of course nonsense. If he can't deal with spoiled brats, then he belongs to a past era. Which is what I've said all along.
He is dealing with them. It might not be thje way you would do it but he's showing them he's in charge. Even with Milner he's decided that we're not going to be pissed about by him and Man City and so has forced the issue.
I don't think it's true to say that they're all the same, most just get their heads down and if they have an issue it stays in house, unfortunately it's those who like to gob off (or have an agent who will do it for them) who get all the publicity.
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What a fucking waste. I find this almost as depressing as the Milner thing.
He's not the best right back ever, he's not the future of this club, but he's a decent pro who's rarely let us down. And he just been dumped.
His replacement better be good Martin.
Spot on Nick.
Supporting Luke on this one doesn't mean we're making him out to be one of the all time greats in his position, it just means that he looked plenty good enough for us whenever he did play.
A baffling decision.
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It may be just me, but to my eyes Luke's never looked 'right' since that unfortunate episode with his brother. His eyes look dazed and regardless of what some folks think, I don't think he's played well since.
I think someone even suggested he came out with some credit in the Stamford Bridge massacre. As someone who was there I couldn't disagree more. He was shocking all afternoon.
He's not a world beater. He's also 31. If he goes, he goes. Its not the end of the world.
thats my view, none of us know what has gone on, it is clear from MON's comments after the season that he believe Young is not fully committed and Young retorted and said he was.
Either you take the player's side or the manager's side or you just say it is one of these things and we move on.
Luke Young's absence did not cost us 4th place, that was down to the lack of ability to break down teams at home and RB's are not very good at doing that.
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It's a real puzzler as to why MON has lost faith in him, wonder if it will ever come out.
If MON is going to stick to his GB buying policy he should stop buying cockerknees, as he seems to have problems with Young, NRC, Sidwell and Shorey, I'm hoping Ashley Young bucks the trend.
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Luke young has never moaned and played left back when asked without a whim. Really need to get him back in the first team. He is class ........
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Luke has never moaned publicly, but whos' to say what has gone on behind the scenes here. There's plenty that doesn't add up.....he's gone from being one of our best players, to one that cannot get a game.
O'Neill may be many things but he really isn't stupid, do we all honestly believe that he thinks that Cuellar is a better right back than Luke Young? (OK...don't answer that!) Do we think that 38,000 of us see this and that he doesn't? (or that!!) No, somethings happened since the awful passing away of Luke's brother, and we may never know the full details.
The fact that London clubs seem to be the only ones linked with him may well tell the story I sense, he wants to be near home and maybe because of that hasn't been putting everything he could into his football, and who could blame him.
Luke Young was a top player for us and I think will be remembered fondly by all Villa fans, but there are much better right backs out there, MON just has to go and find them. (Micah Richards please!)
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Chris, how can you say clough was more of a coach, the players rarely saw him from one matchday till the next and he was almost never present at training .
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Chris, how can you say clough was more of a coach, the players rarely saw him from one matchday till the next and he was almost never present at training .
That's just not true.
"One of the great myths of all-time was that he was a manager and not a coach and seldom on the training ground." Martin O'Neill.
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Read 4 books on him and even his own autobiography and they all say cloughie rarely was seen on the training ground, jimmy Gordon did most of the training and often cloughie rarely turned up till matchday, not knocking it as it worked for him.
Mons version of cloughies training appearances seems to differ from even cloughies own autobiography and
many other players versions, including Roy keane and peter taylors, and Stuart pearces.
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Never seemed the same player after his brothers death, IMO. His heart doesn't seem in it. Whether that's purely the effect of the tragic incident, I don't know. It may be he wants to leave to be closer to family. Or perhaps purely frustration at his not being played.
But yes. Much as I like Luke Young. I don't see him getting back to his form 2 years ago. He's 31 now. Cash in, get his significant wages off the books, and purchase a good young fullback.
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Hello.........why are people saying lets buy another full-back ????? just for him to sit on the bench all season
MON has made it clear that Carlos is his No1 right back end of
For whatever reason we are getting rid of the second best English right back at the present moment (on his day the best)
I for one would like to know why ??
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Luke Young's absence did not cost us 4th place, that was down to the lack of ability to break down teams at home and RB's are not very good at doing that.
When teams are 'parking the bus' a player coming from deep (in this case the fullback position) can overlap and create space for other players or deliver a telling ball themselves, something that Cuellar is unable to do.
Cuellar was played there for his defensive qualities, no problem with that, but do we really need that when facing a weaker team at home, all this has been discussed before.
Not saying we would have got 4th with LY in the team just that he may have given us more forward options in certain games at home.
A good versatile player who still has something to offer us next season but will more than likely be gone. How much will it cost us to replace him when the money should really be spent in more pressing areas.
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Cuellars distribution is so poor it often breaks up our attacking play and gives away possession putting us on the defensive, his defending at right back has improved a lot but I still would prefer a right back who can defend and add something going forward and for that reason luke young is a much better all round right back than cuellar.
Luke lost his place before his brothers death and it seemed just after he had voiced his displeasure of playing at left back and saying he would much prefer right back.
Mon hAs treated him shabbily in my opinion and I'll be sorry to see luke leave!
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Luke's a good defender but he's not by any stretch of the imaginition an attacking full back.
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Luke's a good defender but he's not by any stretch of the imaginition an attacking full back.
Comapred to Cuellar, he's like Bosingwa.
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Far better than cuellar going forward and luke is a solid passer and good crosser of the ball, much more attacking threat as a full back than carlos.
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Not an attacking fullback in the sense of skinning the opposition fullback and whipping in crosses all day long, or cutting in and testing the keeper.
But his touch and control is good enough so as to not look a complete mug in the opposition third of the field, and he can change momentum with a quick surge up the flanks, opening up space and creating options. He's deceptively quick.
He was/is a consistent 7/10 Denis Irwin-style performer. Rarely turned inside out by an opposition winger, and competent going forward. Even when called upon last year, he kept an in-form Aaron Lennon very quiet.
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I don't like attacking full backs and I don't like notional full backs who have awful distribution.
Luke Young is the kind of happy medium I want in a full back. He's 31 now though and whilst I wanted him to play all last season and think he's ace I'd like us to find the younger (no pun intended) version.
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Luke lost his place before his brothers death and it seemed just after he had voiced his displeasure of playing at left back and saying he would much prefer right back.
I am not getting drawn into the reasons why MON and Luke Young fell out again as I have posted the reasons twice before however the above basically sums it up!
However as Chris Smith sums it up MON is the boss, therefore if Luke wants to play regularly he has to move, by not going to Ireland he forces the issue... I am NOT saying this is the right way to go about it.
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True mon is the boss , but for how much longer, is the key question!
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Hello.........why are people saying lets buy another full-back ????? just for him to sit on the bench all season
MON has made it clear that Carlos is his No1 right back end of
For whatever reason we are getting rid of the second best English right back at the present moment (on his day the best)
I for one would like to know why ??
I know England are in dire straights when it comes to finding anyone decent, but are we really that bad? I guess we are...
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Total mystery to me how Luke Young fell so spectacularly out of favour.
You almost wonder if there was a contretemps as MON calls them , but unlike the NRC one it didnt get out to the media.
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Cuellar gets a bad rep for his full-back cover imo. He's not great by any stretch but he's nowhere near as bad as is being claimed here. If he was, we'd have finished far lower than sixth last season.
But that's a side issue to this thread - just thought I'd stick up for the guy.
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I can see why he is refusing tbh he has been treated like crap by MON and I'm fed up by it. Carlos was terrible at RB and if I'm honest I would have him benched with young starting instead in his natural position, whatever reason MON had is beyond me it's just mad as far as I see it yes young was highly unproffessional but he has every right too after his treatment in my opinion.
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Cuellar gets a bad rep for his full-back cover imo. He's not great by any stretch but he's nowhere near as bad as is being claimed here. If he was, we'd have finished far lower than sixth last season.
But that's a side issue to this thread - just thought I'd stick up for the guy.
I like Carlos.
He's an excellent centre back. He's a decent right back, but in that position, he's not as good as Luke Young is.
Him spending most of the season stuck there, with two international right backs on the bench - both signed by the manager - is as clear an example of the manager shoehorning his preferred players into the team regardless of who is best in each position as you'll ever see.
And for more examples of the face-doesn't-fit thing, look at the others who've practically ceased to exist.
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Cuellar gets a bad rep for his full-back cover imo. He's not great by any stretch but he's nowhere near as bad as is being claimed here. If he was, we'd have finished far lower than sixth last season.
But that's a side issue to this thread - just thought I'd stick up for the guy.
I like Carlos.
He's an excellent centre back. He's a decent right back, but in that position, he's not as good as Luke Young is.
Him spending most of the season stuck there, with two international right backs on the bench - both signed by the manager - is as clear an example of the manager shoehorning his preferred players into the team regardless of who is best in each position as you'll ever see.
And for more examples of the face-doesn't-fit thing, look at the others who've practically ceased to exist.
and people wonder why players want to leave
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
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Cuellar gets a bad rep for his full-back cover imo. He's not great by any stretch but he's nowhere near as bad as is being claimed here. If he was, we'd have finished far lower than sixth last season.
But that's a side issue to this thread - just thought I'd stick up for the guy.
Carlos is solid at right back, he's just poor going forward. Saying that he did improve that aspect of his game slightly as the season went on.
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
Interesting theory.
How does Nigel Reo-Coker fit into it, considering he is the most expensive central-midfielder that we have bought?
And I'm sure that O'Neill has never spent more money on one of our strikers than he did on Emile Heskey - who couldn't get near the first XI for the last six months.
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If as rumour has it, NRC actually engaged in rolling-in-the-mud grappling with MON, which would override any fee consideration, I think.
NRC and MON. The battle of the acronyms.
Settled by a TKO
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
Now tell me something I don't know. (winky)
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If as rumour has it, NRC actually engaged in rolling-in-the-mud grappling with MON, which would override any fee consideration, I think.
NRC and MON. The battle of the acronyms.
Settled by a TKO
I've heard this story before, I seem to think it's untrue, becasue lets face it, Nigel would've battered the shit out of him.
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
Now tell me something I don't know. (winky)
his wife has her hair done at the same salon as my mother in law
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And I'm sure that O'Neill has never spent more money on one of our strikers than he did on Emile Heskey - who couldn't get near the first XI for the last six months.
Martin has only bought one striker, so it's not exactly the same but even with Heskey, despite doing nothing when given the opportunity, still got more minutes than he deserved.
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
Now tell me something I don't know. (winky)
his wife has her hair done at the same salon as my mother in law
Everybody knows that.
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
Now tell me something I don't know. (winky)
his wife has her hair done at the same salon as my mother in law
Everybody knows that.
damn ok the bloke who sorted my wasp nest plays golf with MON
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
Now tell me something I don't know. (winky)
his wife has her hair done at the same salon as my mother in law
Everybody knows that.
damn ok the bloke who sorted my wasp nest plays golf with MON
"sorted my wasps nest"
I assume that's a euphemism, hawkeye, you filthy slut.
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
Now tell me something I don't know. (winky)
his wife has her hair done at the same salon as my mother in law
Everybody knows that.
damn ok the bloke who sorted my wasp nest plays golf with MON
"sorted my wasps nest"
I assume that's a euphemism, hawkeye, you filthy slut.
argh caught out again
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A manager has to treat people the same and cannot hold grudges or have favourites- I feel on both these counts mon fails, besides a lack of being able to change tactics and influence a game with subs.
The emperor wears no clothes!gradually people are beginning to see through his reputation, and I for one do not like what I see.
On a positive note, if heskey goes to big Sam for £2m then we can all open the champers!
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I'm sure there are plenty of foreign players that would love to come to the Villa, get paid £40k a week to sit on a bench for 90 minutes once a week.
Now let's see, Berger, Berson, Balaban, and that's just the B's !!!
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
he dosent know how to rotate, he has difficulty changing the formation, substitutions and tactics.
in fact he does not have the ability in the key areas of modern football management to maximise the resources he has available.
he makes too many crap decisions with players and transfers and seems to alienate too many players, lets face it he is an average manager
I think he's a decent manager (as three top 6 finishes would indicate) but not always a great man manager.
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Our best back 4 at the club is still....Young....Cuellar...Dunney....Warnock imo.
So I'll diplomatically say I don't agree with the manager's decision.
Some sort of bust up must have happened if Luke is even behind Beye and Shorey in the full back positions now as they'll both probably leave aswell!
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Agreed Young Cuellar Dunne Warnock should have been our back 4 for most of the season. I really hope we sign a solid right back who like Gary Neville for example can get forward and overlap but can also defend well.
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Yeah but unlike Gary Neville, let's hope he's not a ******.
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I have often wondered if a players price tag is a deciding factor as to whether or not he gets a place in the first team.
Carlos, Downing, Ashley Young, Petrov for two seasons, all undropable. Or maybe Martin just doesn't like to rotate.
Interesting theory.
How does Nigel Reo-Coker fit into it, considering he is the most expensive central-midfielder that we have bought?
And I'm sure that O'Neill has never spent more money on one of our strikers than he did on Emile Heskey - who couldn't get near the first XI for the last six months.
Didn't Marlon cost more than Mr Em?
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Yes, £4million plays £3.5million.
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Bad bad mistake to let Luke young go. He gives 100% when playing and is as good as any rb in the premiership ..........
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I wonder if luke will spill the beans on mon in the same way sorensen did-would make interesting Reading.
It would be the first interesting thing associated with Reading!
And back on topic, Patrik Berger had things to say as well, didn't he?
But tbf, Maloney, Baros, Gardner, Ridgewell, Cahill et al have never had anything bad to say about the bloke have they?
Im pretty sure gardner, Cahill (and poss agent ridge) all said something along the lines of "i left because no matter how hard i tried in training the manager would never give me a chance". I def remember it from gardner as i had been thinking i would do the same thing (apart from the sign for blooooos bit)
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I'd guess that Norwich would be the appropriate place for him to end up.
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Cuellars distribution is so poor it often breaks up our attacking play and gives away possession putting us on the defensive, his defending at right back has improved a lot but I still would prefer a right back who can defend and add something going forward and for that reason luke young is a much better all round right back than cuellar.
I agree to an extent but lets not turn this into a cuellar witch hunt. I think that against teams such as united and arsenal who have good wingers but do not 'park the bus' cuellar is probably the better option. Break it up, give it on. The deficiencies in a situation like this was the lack of a genuine creative CM (milner was good but i think he needed a full season there to be top class). Similarly he was a good option against aerial teams such as stoke and bolton. The problems came against teams like wolves and west ham when L Youngs superior dribbling, passing and crossing skills would have probably made the difference. Cost us the Champs league place IMO
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How many of the other top 6 teams in the Prem play strapping centre halves at full back to counter teams like Stoke and Blackburn? It strikes me as a bit small time.
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How many of the other top 6 teams in the Prem play strapping centre halves at full back to counter teams like Stoke and Blackburn? It strikes me as a bit small time.
And yet, fitness permitting, many would have been happy to see Bouma back at left-back.
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This isnt a Carlos witch hunt, he is a good central defender but he is being played out of position and it is to the detriment of the rest of the team
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How many of the other top 6 teams in the Prem play strapping centre halves at full back to counter teams like Stoke and Blackburn? It strikes me as a bit small time.
And yet, fitness permitting, many would have been happy to see Bouma back at left-back.
Because he used to be a centre back?
He was a striker before he was a centre back or left back.
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Far be it from a cuellar witch hunt , he is a top class centre half and I feel sorry for him as he deserves to play in his. Est position, carlos cuellar is a top class player and it's not his fault his manager plays him out of position.
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Cuellars distribution is so poor it often breaks up our attacking play and gives away possession putting us on the defensive, his defending at right back has improved a lot but I still would prefer a right back who can defend and add something going forward and for that reason luke young is a much better all round right back than cuellar.
I agree to an extent but lets not turn this into a cuellar witch hunt. I think that against teams such as united and arsenal who have good wingers but do not 'park the bus' cuellar is probably the better option. Break it up, give it on. The deficiencies in a situation like this was the lack of a genuine creative CM (milner was good but i think he needed a full season there to be top class). Similarly he was a good option against aerial teams such as stoke and bolton. The problems came against teams like wolves and west ham when L Youngs superior dribbling, passing and crossing skills would have probably made the difference. Cost us the Champs league place IMO
I totally agree with this. Everybody is going on about creative midfielders but I think that a creative RB is equally important. Letting Luke go is a mistake in my view however we should ensure that he is replaced with a player equally as good but I can't see MON pulling that off.
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How many of the other top 6 teams in the Prem play strapping centre halves at full back to counter teams like Stoke and Blackburn? It strikes me as a bit small time.
And yet, fitness permitting, many would have been happy to see Bouma back at left-back.
Lots of players adapt well to different positions. Bouma played as a left back just as much as he did a centre back as a young player. It's a bit different from asking a centre back at the age of 28 to learn a new position.
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Cuellars distribution is so poor it often breaks up our attacking play and gives away possession putting us on the defensive, his defending at right back has improved a lot but I still would prefer a right back who can defend and add something going forward and for that reason luke young is a much better all round right back than cuellar.
I agree to an extent but lets not turn this into a cuellar witch hunt. I think that against teams such as united and arsenal who have good wingers but do not 'park the bus' cuellar is probably the better option. Break it up, give it on. The deficiencies in a situation like this was the lack of a genuine creative CM (milner was good but i think he needed a full season there to be top class). Similarly he was a good option against aerial teams such as stoke and bolton. The problems came against teams like wolves and west ham when L Youngs superior dribbling, passing and crossing skills would have probably made the difference. Cost us the Champs league place IMO
I totally agree with this. Everybody is going on about creative midfielders but I think that a creative RB is equally important. Letting Luke go is a mistake in my view however we should ensure that he is replaced with a player equally as good but I can't see MON pulling that off.
Excellent posts and in replacing Young he will be spending money that would be better off used on buying the 2 midfielders and 1 goalscorer that
we need
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I think I must be the only person in the country who thinks Cuellar did a good job and didn't deserve to be dropped, but then neither did Collins so it wasn't a simple decision to bring Luke back in.
Without being on the training ground day in day out it's difficult to know whether Luke did enough to earn his place back but my guess is that he didn't. You've got to remember the guy had an awful couple of months in pre season/early season that could easily have still been on his mind when he started back in training which led to him not giving 100% and MoN therefore not playing him.
Too many people are willing to lynch MoN over the right back situation without having the full facts. That he can spot a good full back and play them how we all want is clearly shown by Warnock, so lets give him until august 31st to see if he can find a right back on that level as well. (for what it's worth I'd love to see Lichaj get a run if he doesn't get someone in as I've been very impressed every time I've seen him).
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The bottom line is that Luke Young is easily in the top 6 right full-backs in the premiership and we are literally going to give him away!
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I really dont get the whole out of position thing. I remember a discussion during the world cup when england were lambasted for being too rigid and not being able to adapt in different positions ie gerrard right, rooney number 9/10. But if you look at the amount of players MON has tried to change or played out of position there have been a fair few. Off the top of my head:
L.Young left back
Downing Right wing
Cuellar right back
milner CM
Petrov holding MF
Reo coker Right back.
Fair play, id say half of them have worked out. he does try it alot though!
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I think I must be the only person in the country who thinks Cuellar did a good job and didn't deserve to be dropped, but then neither did Collins so it wasn't a simple decision to bring Luke back in.
Without being on the training ground day in day out it's difficult to know whether Luke did enough to earn his place back but my guess is that he didn't. You've got to remember the guy had an awful couple of months in pre season/early season that could easily have still been on his mind when he started back in training which led to him not giving 100% and MoN therefore not playing him.
Too many people are willing to lynch MoN over the right back situation without having the full facts. That he can spot a good full back and play them how we all want is clearly shown by Warnock, so lets give him until august 31st to see if he can find a right back on that level as well. (for what it's worth I'd love to see Lichaj get a run if he doesn't get someone in as I've been very impressed every time I've seen him).
Young's stats in the run of games he had last season were very good, better than with Carlos at RB.
Before Xmas, he started games against Bolton, Burnley, Spurs, Manure, Hull, Sunderland and Stoke before being dropped soon after. We conceded three goals in that period.
Then a month later when Warnock got injured, he played 4 games at LB at home to Arsenal and Manure and away to Spurs and Fulham which I'd say was our toughest quartet of games grouped together last season. We conceded one goal in that period.
We're losing a good full back.
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I think I must be the only person in the country who thinks Cuellar did a good job and didn't deserve to be dropped, but then neither did Collins so it wasn't a simple decision to bring Luke back in.
Without being on the training ground day in day out it's difficult to know whether Luke did enough to earn his place back but my guess is that he didn't. You've got to remember the guy had an awful couple of months in pre season/early season that could easily have still been on his mind when he started back in training which led to him not giving 100% and MoN therefore not playing him.
Too many people are willing to lynch MoN over the right back situation without having the full facts. That he can spot a good full back and play them how we all want is clearly shown by Warnock, so lets give him until august 31st to see if he can find a right back on that level as well. (for what it's worth I'd love to see Lichaj get a run if he doesn't get someone in as I've been very impressed every time I've seen him).
My issue is that playing Carlos @ full back affects us going forward and we have no "outball" on the right and Ashley/Stuart have no support as Carlos will not go over the half way line....if he play Lichaj thats great and no problem but I cannot see that happening
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Another thing is that as we can see from the Milner
situation MON will go public if he thinks he is in the right, so if Luke is this big problem ie wont travel to Ireland, poor in training, poor attitude or whatever MON's problem is with Luke why hasnt he come out and told the world..............
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The bottom line is that Luke Young is easily in the top 6 right full-backs in the premiership and we are literally going to give him away!
That is the bottom line and it is a ridiculous state of affairs.
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I can't disagree with those stats and I agree Young would've given us more going forward but there's got to be something behind the decision to not play him and all I'm saying is it's not like Cuellar was so terrible a RB that he can be held personally responsible for us not making 4th as some people seem to believe.
Therefore if something was happening behind the scenesthat led to him not being picked I can understand the decision.
I do agree though, on form he should be englands first choice and is easily good enough to play for a side challenging the top 4.
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Another thing is that as we can see from the Milner
situation MON will go public if he thinks he is in the right, so if Luke is this big problem ie wont travel to Ireland, poor in training, poor attitude or whatever MON's problem is with Luke why hasnt he come out and told the world..............
There's nothing to gain by coming out and telling the world what the problem is. With Milner it was to try to spark something into happening. Man city made a bid in mid may and then nothing but paper talk has happened in over 2 months since. It was in Villa's benefit to try to bring things to a head.
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I too have been impressed with lichaj every time I've seen him and think he could develop into a very good right back , but Im not sure he's quite ready yet.
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I just think it was MON putting Cuellar in away to Blackburn (which I found understandable) and then deciding not to thinker with the defencer thereafter.
I do find Cuellar at RB at home to lower half defensive teams quite a negative tactic tbh, indeed he had a really poor game at home to Wolves when Jarvis frequently got the better of him.