Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sfx412 on July 02, 2010, 06:17:02 PM

Title: Winter Break?
Post by: sfx412 on July 02, 2010, 06:17:02 PM
Seems the thing now since the World Cup failure, and I think its a great idea.

I'm not the only one too,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8782916.stm

Agree with him completely, might set us up nicely.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: supertom on July 02, 2010, 06:25:52 PM
I wouldn't go as far as a winter break, but perhaps avoiding fixture pile ups over Christmas is one idea. Early August starts instead of mid-late might help. Do players really need such long summer holidays, even with the world cup or Euro's in the equation.

Frankly I think they're paid enough, and should try doing 40 hr weeks in physical jobs for little money.

I also don't believe for a second it'll help our chances improve dramatically. All it would do is paper over the cracks, the real issue being poor grass roots, and too many foreign players.

Worse teams than England made it past the last 16, and some having worked just as hard in their respective seasons.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 02, 2010, 06:26:16 PM
Don't like it. They should go back to playing on Christmas Day too.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 02, 2010, 06:27:10 PM
Mid-season break = more midweek games during the rest of the season. I don't like midweek games so balls to the idea.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Shrek on July 02, 2010, 06:50:40 PM
it wouldnt change a thing regarding england.

The reason we are not producing enough english talent is because of the amount of foreigners in the premier league, which is stopping our young english talents the chance to pregress.

its logical really, if we stop buying players and start giving young home grown players the chance then England will eventually benifit.

Take the south american teams as an example, their top players all come to europe to play, meaning their young talent get the oppurtunity in their homeland.

But as football in this country is controlled by money, we will never entertain the idea of sacrificing abit of quality for the benifit of the country!
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: march on July 02, 2010, 07:08:11 PM
when would this two weeks be ?

Over Xmas when the clubs rake in the money and the fans love the game, don't think so

Just after Xmas and what happens to the Fa Cup

Would clubs be banned from playing lucrative friendlies  as they would seek the sun

what happens if we have a bad winter at the wrong time

gibbo is spot on the problems with the England team are simple, not enough English players being given a chance. Man city have an excellent academy, how many of their players will now get a chance ?

Liverpool's academy is full of foreigners plus Arsenal's

there lies the answer.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: TheSandman on July 02, 2010, 07:16:05 PM
I agree but you are all missing a critical point.

What on earth would WE do in winter in particular when we're off work over the Christmas period? I don't like my family and certainly don't want to be stuck with them all festive period!
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2010, 07:38:44 PM
I think a two week break after Christmas would be a good thing. But it's only good if the clubs then don't take their players off on some money making tournament in Dubai. We need to reduce the PL to 18 teams, and how about this? Get rid of the CL group stage and make it the 2 leg knockout again? That will free up some time and save some energy.

The truth is, and the stats bear it out, English players don't play more combined games than their European counterparts. We just play a more physical, less technical game combined with very little rest in between. It's not one thing, but a multitude of factors (too numerous to mention and much of it driven by money, arrogance and stubborness) as to why England are crap.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2010, 07:54:04 PM
I don't care about England's failure and don't see why the Prem clubs should be messed around because the national team is crap.

The Prem clubs need to look after their own interests (as they do most of the time) and leave the national team to sink or swim.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: The Man With A Stick on July 02, 2010, 07:55:37 PM
Football is one of the few things that keep me sane over Christmas and New Year so it's a big fat no from me.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: curiousorange on July 02, 2010, 08:30:33 PM
This is the one thing the league and fans are in agreement over - they love the Christmas football and itt won't change 'cos England are in freefall.

I myself can take or leave it, particularly because Villa always seem to have rock hard double-headers on Boxing Day/28th Dec.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Quiet Lion on July 02, 2010, 10:54:18 PM
yep two week break from 1 Jan.

Premiership teams cant enter the league cup, no replays in the FA Cup.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: sfx412 on July 02, 2010, 10:57:25 PM
I think if you bothered to read Mon's views you will see he suggests the Xmas fixtures would be retained and the break would come after.

It would then hopefully set us up for an extended run in the period we have recently suffered in I guess.

Still interesting to see so many disagreeing with Mons views here, quite a first

I think it would be a great idea and whilst i agree it would put extra stress on the fixture congestion of more successful clubs the merits are obvious from Mon's views.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Pete3206 on July 02, 2010, 11:12:30 PM
Players like Carlos Tevez need a winter break.

The poor lads knackered. Have you seen him tearing up and down pitches in the World Cup, covering every blade of grass?

Bless his cotton socks.

A no from me. A winter break would give clubs the excuse to piss off to the far east for exhibition matches.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: not3bad on July 02, 2010, 11:14:19 PM
Quote from: "cdvillafan"
Don't like it. They should go back to playing on Christmas Day too.


As long as the queen can parachute on to the pitch at half time to give her address.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: saunders_heroes on July 02, 2010, 11:33:19 PM
England aren't good enough. Never have been never will be, and a winter break will make no difference what so ever, apart from pissing off fans who love the games over Christmas.
Club football over International football every single day of the week.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 03, 2010, 12:28:41 AM
They wouldn't touch Christmas. If there was going to be a break it would be between the FA Cup third and fourth rounds in January.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: VillaZogmariner on July 03, 2010, 06:00:23 AM
As Dave said, it will be mid-January that they have a break, for 2 reasons. First (and main one) being the money they'd lose over Christmas, and secondly because it is over January that most games seem to get postponed.

Personally though, I think it needs a lot more than a 2 week break to sort the national team out. For a start, there are Premier League based players who seem to have coped well enough so far (Tevez, Mascherano, Boateng).
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 03, 2010, 08:16:07 AM
The mid season break won't make a difference to the national team. If England are ever going to be any good they need to stop picking English players, like the cricket team have done.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: VillaZogmariner on July 03, 2010, 08:23:38 AM
Exactly, look at the success we had when we had players like John Barnes and Tony Dorigo!
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: villasjf on July 03, 2010, 08:24:51 AM
OK so we have a mid season break in mid January say and the weather is fine then we get a really bad lot of snow for 3 weeks when we are supposed to be playing. this means a fixtuture pile up and knackered players. Wont work, sorry.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: ozzjim on July 03, 2010, 08:33:28 AM
Or we play in the snow like they do in the rest of the world! Modern pitches can deal with it with undersoil heating, covers etc.

A break in Jan would be useful no doubt, but it wont change the performance of the ENgland side. The loss of some ego and some more intelligent players will do that.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Nev on July 03, 2010, 10:02:34 AM
Would a mid winter break improve Wayne Rooneys appalling attitude?
Would a mid-winter break galvanise our players to show passion and endeavour?
Would a mid-winter break stop the national manager from continually picking players on reputation and not form?

If the players are tired it's from chasing lucrative commercial deals and making adverts. Something that they will, I'm sure, continue to do if a break is bought in.

Keep the excuses coming, it abdicates the players from any responsibility and the hand wringing will start all over again in four years. It's pathetic.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: john e on July 03, 2010, 10:30:05 AM
i dont know what the answer is, but England have been rubbish for nearly 40 years,
stumbling to a semi final penalty shoot out once  every 20 odd years.

you could argue that when we had creative players in abundance in the 70's we had a worse situation, with England not even qualifying for two majors during that time.

in fact our record in the last 20 years is better than the 20 years previous, when we had hardly any foriegn players, and the national side actually meant something to players and supporters alike.

so i just dont know, but one thing is for sure, its not a recent problem, its been going on for donkeys years
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Lenny_AVFC on July 03, 2010, 10:52:56 AM
I'd quite like a break over Christmas, usually have better things to do and regularly have to miss boxing day and new years day games. They're the first fixtures i look for hoping were away on them days. But january is boring, if there was no football i'd go mad.

If it helps stop injuries and fatigue at the end of the season, O'neill seems to think this is the case, then I'm all for it. Although people will just start to use the excuse that players are tired from playing three games a week. These poor little professional athletes cant deal with working 270 minutes a week

It will NOT help England one bit though. Its a bullshit excuse for us being crap. As mentioned by somebody else, Mascherano, Tevez, Boateng, Kuyt, Van Persie, Mensh, Pantsil, Dempsey, Pantsil seem to be coping fine.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: bobcat on July 03, 2010, 12:22:03 PM
From a Villa point of view, a month of in march would do quite nicely.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: DB on July 03, 2010, 12:25:24 PM
To add to Dave's comment, I agree and I would have the break in early Jan. They wouldn't touch it, most of us enjoy the boxing day fixture. We need one, from a footballing perspective, other big leagues have it. I can't think of an EPL based player that has done well at this world cup, look at Torres.
However, with regards to fixture pile-up, how many other leagues have 2 cup competitions Spain don't.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: supertom on July 03, 2010, 12:29:40 PM
Plus the season ended in mid-may. The world cup started 2nd week in June. The players had a few weeks without playing competitive football (just a few laboured friendlies). It's not like they finished on the last day of the season, flew straight out and had to play within days.

Moany bunch of pampered buggers.
"I'm tired"
"The pitch isn't pristine enough!"
"I got caught having extra maritals by the missus!"
"I don't like the new football"
"Fabio won't let us drink beer"
"I played shit and the fans booed me, and hurt my feelings. I don't care that they've saved up for a year to come over to watch me half ass my way round the pitch with a constant look of forlorn discomtempt on my Shrek-like Mug, how very dare they!!"
"I want to be captain!"
"No I do"
"Actually I am skipper"
"No you're not John, you're a penis, and no one likes you"
"They all think you're a dick too Steven...fuck off!"
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Drummond on July 03, 2010, 12:42:39 PM
The winter break would work for us because we have a small squad and our manager picks the same players week-in, week-out.

There would be no benefit to England.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Legion on July 03, 2010, 01:19:15 PM
Also on Pravda (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/FootballNewsDetail/0,,10265~2081885,00.html).

Quote
Fabio Capello has called for a winter break - and it's a request Martin O'Neill fully supports.

Capello this week insisted part of the reason for England's poor showing at the World Cup was fatigue after a long and gruelling Barclays Premier League campaign for his star names.

He believes this end-of-season tiredness would be alleviated if the top-flight followed other major leagues in Europe and took time out just after the New Year.

While not looking at it from an international standpoint, O'Neill agrees with Capello that  it's time for a change in the fixture scheduling.

O'Neill believes the move would give players fresh impetus later in the term.

The Villa boss first mooted the idea during the UEFA Cup campaign two seasons ago when he found his own claret and blue players taking part in the competition after a hectic festive spell.
Advertisement

German sides like Hamburg and Wolfsburg, meanwhile, were going into their clashes following a winter on the sidelines in the Bundesliga.

The gaffer believes the time is now right for the Barclays Premier League to follow suit, having originally seen the benefits of the break with Celtic.

O'Neill said: "My own view is there should be a winter break. I think it would be a fantastic thing.

"I believe it would give everyone a lift in January. We had it for a couple of years in the Scottish Premier League and we all got great benefit from it.

"I am a great believer in it and I think it is important. But I am not controlling affairs.

"People assume it causes a loss of impetus but that's absolutely not the case.

"You would still have Boxing Day and New Year games and then you have the break - for about three weeks.

"It gives the players a chance to get away with their families. They feel much better for it. It was so beneficial.

"One of the years when we had the break in Scotland, Celtic went on to reach the UEFA Cup final. I genuinely believe the winter break was of great benefit for us."

Former England manager Sven-Goran Eriksson has also come out this morning in support of a winter break.

He believes the Barclays Premier League must introduce it if the national side are to be successful at major tournaments.

Eriksson said: ''I don't think there is anything wrong with English football. The only thing I was fighting for [when I was in charge] was a winter break, but because of money the Premier League never accepted that.

''England is the only country in Europe without a break and when it comes to these big tournaments they are suffering for it.''


Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Lucky Eddie on July 03, 2010, 01:52:29 PM
"I'm tired"
"The pitch isn't pristine enough!"
"I got caught having extra maritals by the missus!"
"I don't like the new football"
"Fabio won't let us drink beer"
"I played shit and the fans booed me, and hurt my feelings. I don't care that they've saved up for a year to come over to watch me half ass my way round the pitch with a constant look of forlorn discomtempt on my Shrek-like Mug, how very dare they!!"
"I want to be captain!"
"No I do"
"Actually I am skipper"
"No you're not John, you're a penis, and no one likes you"
"They all think you're a dick too Steven...fuck off!"

 
Is the correct answer
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Bungle on July 03, 2010, 07:22:42 PM
Surely the answer to the fixture "problem" which is self-imposed is not to shut down every time international teams play.  What is the problem with playing the reserves?  After all the idea of having them is so that they can deputise as and when needed.  Who knows we may get some nice surprises if we give them the chance.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Chris Harte on July 03, 2010, 08:10:50 PM
What Bungle says.

Failing that, I propose a shut-down from December 1st to February 28th (29th in a leap year).

The two are highly unlikely to happen, IMO.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: tremzvillain on July 03, 2010, 08:21:14 PM
I'm sorry but I just don't buy this tiredness crap. If grown men earning 40-50k a week can't run around for an hour & half, twice a week, then they need to consider buying skirts and changing their names to Angelina.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Jimbo on July 03, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
England's success, or lack of, has got nothing to do with the amount of games players play. It has, however, got a lot to do with the way kids are taught the game from a very early age. The sooner we concentrate on getting kids to play a possession game based on control and technique, rather than brute strength, speed and hoofing, the better. There are a host of other reasons why England are generally crap at football and lots of other sports (and other things in life) as well, but that might be for another time.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on July 03, 2010, 11:09:38 PM
Maybe 2 weeks in January but It aint going to  make no difference at all.

What good is an english break to Arsenal for the England football team.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: nuninho on July 03, 2010, 11:16:50 PM
How about central contracts such as in cricket.  Don't know who would or how you'd pay for it though...
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on July 03, 2010, 11:29:37 PM
Quote from: "Nev"
Would a mid winter break improve Wayne Rooneys appalling attitude?
.


Talking of Rooney , he is in Barbados tonight ..  Fuck me have I grafted the last 6 mths and I can afford 2 days in Windsor ..
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Guy M on July 04, 2010, 12:09:19 AM
Quote from: "Pete3206"
A no from me. A winter break would give clubs the excuse to piss off to the far east for exhibition matches.

Spot on.
Quote from: "Nev"
Would a mid winter break improve Wayne Rooneys appalling attitude?
Would a mid-winter break galvanise our players to show passion and endeavour?
Would a mid-winter break stop the national manager from continually picking players on reputation and not form?

If the players are tired it's from chasing lucrative commercial deals and making adverts. Something that they will, I'm sure, continue to do if a break is bought in.

Keep the excuses coming, it abdicates the players from any responsibility and the hand wringing will start all over again in four years. It's pathetic.

Isn't it? On the other hand, I spent this afternoon watching a really disciplined and yet still creative Germany team systematically dismantle Argentina and thoroughly enjoyed it. So the longer the England side stays in the doldrums, the better as far as I'm concerned.

All this winter break discussion bollocks could easily be avoided if the PL had reduced its member teams to just 18 within 3 years of its inception as they first promised. And the Chumps League hadn't become a ridiculously long drawn-out pile of poo too.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on July 04, 2010, 12:14:52 AM
Guy

Im just bought fish and chips in Maidenhead tonight .

Just gone back to water Oakley to eat them..
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Guy M on July 04, 2010, 01:14:53 AM
Long way from home, JP. Down for Henley regatta?!

Not stumbled across a decent chippie here yet, so feel free to recommend one if you have!
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on July 04, 2010, 06:00:08 PM
Please explain what fish and chips in Maidenhead has got to do with"a winter break" I suggest you go on facebook ??
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: supertom on July 04, 2010, 07:43:11 PM
Quote from: "WALTERS WARRIORS"
Please explain what fish and chips in Maidenhead has got to do with"a winter break" I suggest you go on facebook ??


Well for starters, Wayne Rooney would spend the majority of his winter break, lounging around eating said takeaway. He wouldn't scrimp on the curry sauce either I'll bet.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 04, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: "march"
when would this two weeks be ?

Over Xmas when the clubs rake in the money and the fans love the game, don't think so

Just after Xmas and what happens to the Fa Cup

Would clubs be banned from playing lucrative friendlies  as they would seek the sun

what happens if we have a bad winter at the wrong time

gibbo is spot on the problems with the England team are simple, not enough English players being given a chance. Man city have an excellent academy, how many of their players will now get a chance ?

Liverpool's academy is full of foreigners plus Arsenal's

there lies the answer.


I would have it straight after the FA cup 3rd round for two weeks. During that period you miss a round of prem games that could be solved by starting the season a week earlier or finishing it a week later and league cup semi finals which could be played later on in the month.

Not too fussed either way tbh.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on July 05, 2010, 02:03:24 PM
Quote from: "supertom"
Quote from: "WALTERS WARRIORS"
Please explain what fish and chips in Maidenhead has got to do with"a winter break" I suggest you go on facebook ??


Well for starters, Wayne Rooney would spend the majority of his winter break, lounging around eating said takeaway. He wouldn't scrimp on the curry sauce either I'll bet.


Fairplay. What was i thinking haaaa ..............
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 05, 2010, 02:11:53 PM
Quote from: "cdvillafan"
Don't like it. They should go back to playing on Christmas Day too.


Yep. We should play on Christmas morning and then both teams should travel together for the return fixture on Boxing Day. That's what made Villa great!!!

Winter break? fat lot of good that did for the jocks.

And Villa seem to enjoy quite a few spare Saturdays in winter as it is, after our traditional FA cup 3rd round exits.....
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2010, 02:27:08 PM
Strikes me that if we're going to be playing largely the same side week in, week out for much of next season, we've more to gain from a winter break than most sides.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Monty on July 05, 2010, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Strikes me that if we're going to be playing largely the same side week in, week out for much of next season, we've more to gain from a winter break than most sides.

It could help open up the league as a whole. The Christmas period tends to be the time when the usual best teams pull away because they have the squads to deal with the strain. Without that, we could have a slightly closer table.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2010, 02:33:32 PM
Good point, Monty.

I'im in the "good idea" camp.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Monty on July 05, 2010, 02:35:45 PM
Same, and they could do it without messing up tradition. They could keep the Boxing Day game, followed decently spaced by the 3rd round of the FA Cup, and then a break. That would work beautifully, particularly as January is the toughest month of the year.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 05, 2010, 02:38:29 PM
There won't be one, though, because sponsors want their name over the telly week in, week out, and because Sky, having paid big bucks, don't want two or three weeks of nothing to show.

And that, more than anything, hints at the reason why the national team is bollocksed in this country.

Ultimately it is about money, and that hardly ever equates to something which is better for the England team.
Title: Winter Break?
Post by: Monty on July 05, 2010, 02:41:53 PM
Very true. To think that Dave Whelan kept a straight face while advocating the Premier League running the England team. That interview on Newsnight was hilarious, I had this running series of questions in my head: "England should be run by the Premier League" (which you might not be in much longer), "we should have an Englishman in charge, it's discouraging to English coaches not to" (which is why you've appointed a Spaniard), "there are too many foreign players in the league" (like in your first team) etc etc.
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