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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 343398 times)

Offline dcdavecollett

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1080 on: November 17, 2019, 11:35:29 PM »
You can learn a lot from studying Villa's goal at Wolves. Shot over the line or not? Check on the watch and correct decision made within about five seconds -surely the model for delivering VAR decisions? Not the rubbish we get now!

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1081 on: November 18, 2019, 08:31:17 AM »
You can learn a lot from studying Villa's goal at Wolves. Shot over the line or not? Check on the watch and correct decision made within about five seconds -surely the model for delivering VAR decisions? Not the rubbish we get now!

I agree. But to achieve that you would need Laser/sensor technology to map every millimetre of the entire length of the pitch.  Doable but at what cost?

Online Nev

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1082 on: November 18, 2019, 08:54:10 AM »
You can learn a lot from studying Villa's goal at Wolves. Shot over the line or not? Check on the watch and correct decision made within about five seconds -surely the model for delivering VAR decisions? Not the rubbish we get now!

I agree. But to achieve that you would need Laser/sensor technology to map every millimetre of the entire length of the pitch.  Doable but at what cost?

That system is perfect for matter of fact decisions, but the issue with VAR is the subjective ones. One mans foul is another mans good tackle, this is the fundamental problem with VAR, you can't turn a matter of opinion into a matter of fact no matter how hard you try. VAR was fatally flawed from the start, but the clamour to introduce it, under the cloak of "getting decisions correct" ignored this. And here we are.

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1083 on: November 18, 2019, 10:26:16 AM »
You can learn a lot from studying Villa's goal at Wolves. Shot over the line or not? Check on the watch and correct decision made within about five seconds -surely the model for delivering VAR decisions? Not the rubbish we get now!

I agree. But to achieve that you would need Laser/sensor technology to map every millimetre of the entire length of the pitch.  Doable but at what cost?

That system is perfect for matter of fact decisions, but the issue with VAR is the subjective ones. One mans foul is another mans good tackle, this is the fundamental problem with VAR, you can't turn a matter of opinion into a matter of fact no matter how hard you try. VAR was fatally flawed from the start, but the clamour to introduce it, under the cloak of "getting decisions correct" ignored this. And here we are.

The clamour to introduce it based on "the technology is there, why don't we use it?" We've gone from 3 blokes, two with a flag, one with a whistle and goal line technology. The assumption that the technology is there is akin to the Wright Brother's first flight and a week later wanting to know why they haven't landed on the moon.  It's going to take time.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1084 on: November 18, 2019, 11:37:33 AM »
Does anyone refer to their telly at home as 'technology'? There is no technology involved for anything other than goal line, it's still just a bloke watching the telly.

Online paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1085 on: November 18, 2019, 01:11:20 PM »
You can learn a lot from studying Villa's goal at Wolves. Shot over the line or not? Check on the watch and correct decision made within about five seconds -surely the model for delivering VAR decisions? Not the rubbish we get now!

I agree. But to achieve that you would need Laser/sensor technology to map every millimetre of the entire length of the pitch.  Doable but at what cost?

That system is perfect for matter of fact decisions, but the issue with VAR is the subjective ones. One mans foul is another mans good tackle, this is the fundamental problem with VAR, you can't turn a matter of opinion into a matter of fact no matter how hard you try. VAR was fatally flawed from the start, but the clamour to introduce it, under the cloak of "getting decisions correct" ignored this. And here we are.

The clamour to introduce it based on "the technology is there, why don't we use it?" We've gone from 3 blokes, two with a flag, one with a whistle and goal line technology. The assumption that the technology is there is akin to the Wright Brother's first flight and a week later wanting to know why they haven't landed on the moon.  It's going to take time.

In terms of offside the tech isn't there but it will be soon. In the rugby world cup they were, for some games, using camera tech (called Volumetric Video Capture) which allows them to build a full 3d model of the match and replay at multiple speeds for any angle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNEAkIWMD64 - this is an example of the footage it gives.


However World Rugby are (from what I've been told by a very good source) already asking for future applications around this, specifically to help manage the offside line. The goal would be that every breakdown would have a 'capture' of the exact time stamp when the ball is lifted and then timematch that to an overhead shot giving the exact position of every player.


That is how you can use technology to manage offsides in football as well, maybe even keep the linesman involved by having them press a button to ask for a review (as they raise the flag). From there if you can get the images being generated within 10-15 seconds and judged via AI then you have a genuinely workable technological solution that's on par with goal line tech.


VAR as it stands shouldn't be used for offsides other than extreme circumstances (if a guy is a couple of yards off and it somehow gets missed). VAR, in it's current format, should mainly be about fouls and dives right now, where the angle for the ref can make something hard to spot but other angles can quickly show {lack of} contact. In most cases the game stops for the players to all have a moan at the ref anyway so you're not slowing game down at that point. I'm ok with it enforcing the handball laws as well but only if they're understood consistently by the people making the decisions. Earlier in the season I don't think that was the case so we saw some fairly controversial handball decisions.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1086 on: November 18, 2019, 02:23:11 PM »
You can learn a lot from studying Villa's goal at Wolves. Shot over the line or not? Check on the watch and correct decision made within about five seconds -surely the model for delivering VAR decisions? Not the rubbish we get now!

I agree. But to achieve that you would need Laser/sensor technology to map every millimetre of the entire length of the pitch.  Doable but at what cost?

That system is perfect for matter of fact decisions, but the issue with VAR is the subjective ones. One mans foul is another mans good tackle, this is the fundamental problem with VAR, you can't turn a matter of opinion into a matter of fact no matter how hard you try. VAR was fatally flawed from the start, but the clamour to introduce it, under the cloak of "getting decisions correct" ignored this. And here we are.

The clamour to introduce it based on "the technology is there, why don't we use it?" We've gone from 3 blokes, two with a flag, one with a whistle and goal line technology. The assumption that the technology is there is akin to the Wright Brother's first flight and a week later wanting to know why they haven't landed on the moon.  It's going to take time.


Nothing wrong with the technology, in your analogy it's a spaceship well capable of a moon landing, the problem is they are still using monkeys and dogs as astronauts

Offline Abbeyfealeavfc

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1087 on: November 23, 2019, 08:30:19 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50517096

So they've started to admit that var has got things wrong, but why stop at 4?
In its current state the system is a sham.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1088 on: November 23, 2019, 11:12:15 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50517096

So they've started to admit that var has got things wrong, but why stop at 4?
In its current state the system is a sham.


Four my arse, they're getting more than that wrong every single weekend.  What about our goal v Brighton for a start?

Offline Pete3206

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1089 on: November 23, 2019, 11:15:23 AM »
Absolutely laughable.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1090 on: November 23, 2019, 12:56:23 PM »
That's only one type of error as well.  There are numerous others where they've failed to overturn clear errors as well.  Like the penalty we didn't get at Arsenal and that joke of a decision at Palace.

Offline CT

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1091 on: November 23, 2019, 01:51:57 PM »
Four errors?!

If Conor Hourihanes goal against Brighton had been for Man City against Liverpool, we'd never have heard the end of it.

It was an absolutely horrendous decision and could have cost us points, luckily, it didn't.

When they scrapped that goal, and that voice said "VAR complete", I started to question the point in going to games anymore. 

Online GordonCowansisthegreatest

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1092 on: November 23, 2019, 02:54:52 PM »
"Four Errors" The previous day!
Not over the weekend or the season!

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1093 on: November 23, 2019, 03:46:14 PM »
VAR Friend and Liverpool cheat again.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1094 on: November 23, 2019, 03:46:58 PM »
VAR Friend and Liverpool cheat again.

It was correctly disallowed.

 


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