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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 61094 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1065 on: November 11, 2019, 09:33:41 PM »
Between Dermot Gallacher and now Neil Swarbrick (On 5Live this afternoon), I think we're being taken for mugs.

Just wait until this farce costs trophies, relegation etc.

You'd expect Swarbrick to try to defend himself, but his self delusion is monumental:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50380641

7/10 so far?  It's absolutely dreadful, every single weekend, and is getting worse.  The worst thing is the appalling lack of consistency.

Offline Percy McCarthy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1066 on: November 11, 2019, 11:30:32 PM »
One thing I’ve not seen mentioned about yesterday’s VAR decision (on the handball), was that it led to a goal. Surely that should have been chalked off, like the Man City (v Spyrs) goal was earlier in the season?

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1067 on: November 11, 2019, 11:32:24 PM »
No, because I wanted Man City to win.

Basically VAR is out to get me personally. Pissing me off is the only thing it has been consistent in.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1068 on: November 12, 2019, 12:46:08 AM »
Apparently the refs have now decided to make more use of the pitch side monitor because only the on field ref understands the "atmosphere" of the game.

Which I think is code for "you'll never get a penalty at Anfield"!

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1069 on: November 12, 2019, 12:50:31 AM »
One thing I’ve not seen mentioned about yesterday’s VAR decision (on the handball), was that it led to a goal. Surely that should have been chalked off, like the Man City (v Spyrs) goal was earlier in the season?
They mentioned it on MOTD2. Whilst they agreed it should have been a penalty to Man City for the handball, I think it was Shearer who suggested that it would have been toxic (or something like that) to disallow the goal and award a penalty instead.

Edit: “bedlam” is how Shearer described it.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 04:15:34 AM by KRS »

Online The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1070 on: November 12, 2019, 08:09:13 AM »
Between Dermot Gallacher and now Neil Swarbrick (On 5Live this afternoon), I think we're being taken for mugs.

Just wait until this farce costs trophies, relegation etc.

You'd expect Swarbrick to try to defend himself, but his self delusion is monumental:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50380641

7/10 so far?  It's absolutely dreadful, every single weekend, and is getting worse.  The worst thing is the appalling lack of consistency.
Listen to him, pompous little prat. He said on TS earlier that "var is here to stay & people will have to give them time to perfect it" Says who? It's not down to the referees it's down to the football governing bodies whether it's here to stay or not. The arrogance of them these days is laughable. They seem to think the crowds and the TV companies are there to watch them! Apparently ours is the last league to implement it. One year behind all other associations so they could get it right! And they spent the whole year travelling the globe on a massive all expenses jolly to observe. Fuck me.

Offline brian green

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1071 on: November 12, 2019, 08:42:34 AM »
It seems to me, standing back and half closing your eyes,  the referees are clinging to their power to arbitrate.  The laughable reference to only they understanding the "atmosphere" of a game is a weasel way of saying that they demand the right to be partisan.  A free kick in the outfield is a free kick is a free kick.  A free kick in a penalty area is a penalty but it might directly affect the outcome of the game so referees assume the right to arbitrate.  That is de facto bias.

What we have with VAR is machines partly running games.  It used to work perfectly ( because errors we accepted as part of the game) when humans ran the games.  VAR can only work when it runs every bit of the game robotically.  The mixture of technolgy and human judgement is an attempt to grow oranges on an apple tree.  The hybrid system we have currently is a Norwegian Blue parrot.

Offline Vill I An

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1072 on: November 12, 2019, 05:20:03 PM »
There is a meeting on this week where Clubs and the Premier League are set to be reviewing VAR with the officials.

The main issue and situation being that pitch side monitors will be now more encouraged to be consulted so the on pitch official has final say

Finally it looks likely that VAR will start to be fully implemented and in line with the rest of Football leagues and competitions who use VAR !

What is outlandish is the talk of a challenge system by managers to go to review.

Its seems premier league are making up their own way of implementing VAR and that PGMOL don't want to be seen as incompetent
Clubs however are now realising the mistake of voting against the pitch side monitors and that's going to be rectified by the time next set of premier league matches come about.


Offline Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1073 on: November 12, 2019, 06:29:57 PM »
... What we have with VAR is machines partly running games.  It used to work perfectly ( because errors we accepted as part of the game) when humans ran the games.  VAR can only work when it runs every bit of the game robotically.  The mixture of technolgy and human judgement is an attempt to grow oranges on an apple tree.  The hybrid system we have currently is a Norwegian Blue parrot.
Disagree, Brian.
The technology is providing humans with more 'data' to make decisions. The problem now is that the human foibles are being exposed and the previously-undisclosed dilemma of the ref making judgement-calls is being laid bare (Think Dowd at Wembley in 2010 for an example of a ref who admitted to bringing his judgement into what was a binary and b&w decision).
Additionally, the frailty of the laws is also being exposed - when is a handball a freekick / penalty vs contact with a body part that makes no difference to the play? Can a player be offisde if a toe-nail crosses a computer-generated line?
I have no problem with the technology: I have a problem with its application and with the concept that referees should judge whether to apply the rules or not, and these are the issues that needs to be addressed by the game's administrators.

Offline brian green

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1074 on: November 12, 2019, 07:38:23 PM »
I believe you can't  have some technology.  All in or not at all.  If Cambridge scientists can programme a piece of wood slime to draw a full colour map of the Tokyo underground, as they can, robotic scanning of every move of every player in a game of football has to be a serious consideration.

Online KevinGage

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1075 on: November 12, 2019, 08:00:29 PM »
I believe you can't  have some technology.  All in or not at all. 

Agree Brian.

Type 'Kevin Friend, Leicester' into the command prompt of the attack helicopter.

Make the technology work for us.

Online Clampy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1076 on: November 12, 2019, 08:32:24 PM »
I believe you can't  have some technology.  All in or not at all.  If Cambridge scientists can programme a piece of wood slime to draw a full colour map of the Tokyo underground, as they can, robotic scanning of every move of every player in a game of football has to be a serious consideration.

You can I suppose because it worked in the World Cup. We had some technology (the pitch side monitor) but the ref had the final say. Why that hasn't happened so far this season is a bit of a mystery.

Offline Vill I An

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1077 on: November 12, 2019, 10:28:13 PM »
I believe you can't  have some technology.  All in or not at all.  If Cambridge scientists can programme a piece of wood slime to draw a full colour map of the Tokyo underground, as they can, robotic scanning of every move of every player in a game of football has to be a serious consideration.

You can I suppose because it worked in the World Cup. We had some technology (the pitch side monitor) but the ref had the final say. Why that hasn't happened so far this season is a bit of a mystery.

Ah yes the world cup in France where no English official was ref !
I think that says it all about level of competence
As well as these PGMOL type not adhering and embracing the VAR technology I think politically they were not selected

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1078 on: November 12, 2019, 11:15:15 PM »
Surely Swarthick forgot to add the minus sign before the 7. Who on earth does he think he's kidding, this spin would embarrass a politician.  Just as idiotic as Gallagher trying to justify the unjustifiable with a straight face.  It's an unmitigated fuck up so far and every man, woman and their dogs know it. 

The ""atmosphere" line is pure Dowdism - I reserve the right to not give a foul in case I upset the ManYew/Plop plastic fans or Sky.

We have to make the man on the pitch make the ultimate decision and that means using the pitch side monitor.  The VAR should only be advising there might be something to look at.  That way they remain answerable for their decisions but can't hide behind a mate/subordinate/superior backing them up or bailing them out.  We'd also hopefully remove  excuses for "atmosphere" (bottler) decisions made in the heat of the moment.   

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1079 on: November 13, 2019, 09:23:42 AM »
Surely Swarthick forgot to add the minus sign before the 7. Who on earth does he think he's kidding, this spin would embarrass a politician.  Just as idiotic as Gallagher trying to justify the unjustifiable with a straight face.  It's an unmitigated fuck up so far and every man, woman and their dogs know it. 

The ""atmosphere" line is pure Dowdism - I reserve the right to not give a foul in case I upset the ManYew/Plop plastic fans or Sky.

We have to make the man on the pitch make the ultimate decision and that means using the pitch side monitor.  The VAR should only be advising there might be something to look at.  That way they remain answerable for their decisions but can't hide behind a mate/subordinate/superior backing them up or bailing them out.  We'd also hopefully remove  excuses for "atmosphere" (bottler) decisions made in the heat of the moment.   

Yes, it's unbeliavable.  In what other billion pound industry would you get away with such a half-arsed way of introducing a radical new system?