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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 53565 times)

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #795 on: October 23, 2019, 05:33:58 PM »
You can blame football refs for their mistakes but not their siege mentality.

Yep. Another one here agreeing with the stance that paul_e and others have got to with VAR. The refs are the problem.

While I agree with almost all that themossman says I'd disagree with that last point; what their mentality indicates is that they do NOT have the best interests of the game at heart, only their own. With such a major element of the game at risk now (fairness, an even playing field) and with such a risky experiment being conducted and abused by them I CAN blame them for not taking this opportunity to do the right thing.

Yep. I blame them for being insular, blinkered, venal, egocentric cockwombles who deserve to be consigned to the nether reaches of hell for what they are doing to our game. With any luck the clubs, through their ownership of the PL, will take this chance to cut them down to useful size. For all our sakes.

What a load of condescending sanctimonious horseshit.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: VAR
« Reply #796 on: October 23, 2019, 05:43:27 PM »
You can blame football refs for their mistakes but not their siege mentality.

Yep. Another one here agreeing with the stance that paul_e and others have got to with VAR. The refs are the problem.

While I agree with almost all that themossman says I'd disagree with that last point; what their mentality indicates is that they do NOT have the best interests of the game at heart, only their own. With such a major element of the game at risk now (fairness, an even playing field) and with such a risky experiment being conducted and abused by them I CAN blame them for not taking this opportunity to do the right thing.

Yep. I blame them for being insular, blinkered, venal, egocentric cockwombles who deserve to be consigned to the nether reaches of hell for what they are doing to our game. With any luck the clubs, through their ownership of the PL, will take this chance to cut them down to useful size. For all our sakes.

What a load of condescending sanctimonious horseshit.

Hear hear. Missed this earlier. Utter bollocks and completely unhelpful.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #797 on: October 23, 2019, 06:55:06 PM »
Whilst the tone is a bit excessive I'm not sure AllanW is wrong.  I wanted VAR a a means to eradicate what looked like clear and obvious bias, whether conscious or unconscious, towards certain teams,  or utter incompetence (see Thierry Henry double handball against Ireland).  But I've come to the conclusion it's a decent tool applied by self-serving morons. 

There still seems to be a lot of  subjective decisions going in favour of teams like Spuds and Arsenal, and against teams like us.  The bias has just changed location or been rubber stamped by a crony.  So there is absolutely no point to it from that perspective, it just gets in the way.   

I'd hoped it would give consistency of decisions - but it's applied massively inconsistently, just as on-field refs apply the laws inconsistently.  So again no point to it, it just gets in the way.

And I'm struggling to see why Gallagher says the fact the Man Yoo ref waved play on takes it out of VAR's hands, whereas our ref signalling a goal doesn't.   Similarly Friend giving a foul for Jack's dive takes VAR out of the equation, whereas if he lets play run and gives the goal, VAR could still have disallowed it.  So some decisions can be corrected, but not others?  It makes no sense and it's utter bullshit.  Gallagher just makes himself a laughing stock by trying to explain and defend it.

The application is so bad that, like others, I can only conclude that the PGMOL people are doing it deliberately to undermine it and get shot of it.

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #798 on: October 23, 2019, 07:13:53 PM »
My response to his post has got nothing to do with VAR, it's the aspersions he's casting on people he knows nothing about and about a profession I would respectfully suggest he knows even less.  Make your observations and give your opinions by all means but using that tone as Chinchilla rightly says, does nothing to help.

Offline Luke8

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Re: VAR
« Reply #799 on: October 23, 2019, 07:41:05 PM »

And I'm struggling to see why Gallagher says the fact the Man Yoo ref waved play on takes it out of VAR's hands, whereas our ref signalling a goal doesn't. 

Dean Smith mentioned in his interview today that our goal on Saturday was overruled by what would be considered the senior referee in charge of VAR whereas the exact same pairing (Atkinson and Coote) with the roles reversed for the Liverpool/Man United game left the decision with the on field referee.

He also made an interesting point about how VAR is being used quite negatively in his opinion i.e almost exclusively to rule goals out rather than give penalties etc.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #800 on: October 23, 2019, 07:45:15 PM »
‘Soccer is not about justice.  It’s a drama – and criminally wrong decisions against you are part and parcel of that.’

Pete Davies

The issue is that those decisions can now have such a massive impact (hundreds of millions of them) that it's harder than before to chalk it off as 'part of the charm of the game'.


That's not the game's fault. Pump all the billions you want into it, it'll always only be 11 people kicking a bag of wind around a field. Much like paying someone millions a year rather than a few tens of thousands won't make them a better player, so football will never be more than the most important of life's unimportant things.

Does anybody on here actually think that decisions regarding the Villa are more important now than they were thirty years ago primarily because there's more money involved?

Offline KevinGage

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Re: VAR
« Reply #801 on: October 23, 2019, 07:56:40 PM »
We don't win that game on Saturday (to go with the missed points due to duff decisions already this season), and we end up get relegated by the narrowest of margins then, aye.

We've already had a taste of the fun and games associated with a big club going down vis a vis  financial unfair play. I'm in no rush to repeat that anytime soon.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #802 on: October 23, 2019, 08:01:00 PM »
Has any team ever been relegated as a result of season-long refereeing decisions?

Offline KevinGage

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Re: VAR
« Reply #803 on: October 23, 2019, 08:13:08 PM »
I'm not Rainman so I can't recite every single crap decision across every single game that resulted in a team going down.

But Bolton a few years back had a goal not given towards the end of the season (the ball had crossed the line) which did for them.   

I have never really been an advocate of 'these things even themselves over the course of a season.'  That relies on a perfect balance of ineptitude. There is even less scope for that sort of thinking now with the stakes so high.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: VAR
« Reply #804 on: October 23, 2019, 08:23:00 PM »
Has any team ever been relegated as a result of season-long refereeing decisions?

Bolton for definite, Cardiff would have a strong claim as well.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #805 on: October 23, 2019, 08:43:10 PM »
Has any team ever been relegated as a result of season-long refereeing decisions?

Bolton for definite, Cardiff would have a strong claim as well.

that'll be the Bolton that were days away from being wound-up just a few years later. That's why it matters that the game does what it can to get this right.

Does anybody on here actually think that decisions regarding the Villa are more important now than they were thirty years ago primarily because there's more money involved?

Possibly not but there are 2 big differences. The first is that clubs were rarely in so much trouble if they were relegated at the time:

It'a a few years out of date but that sums the problem up nicely.


The 2nd difference is that we can do something about it now, 30 years ago we couldn't so the question itself is moot.


Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: VAR
« Reply #806 on: October 23, 2019, 08:47:57 PM »
Has any team ever been relegated as a result of season-long refereeing decisions?

Bolton for definite, Cardiff would have a strong claim as well.

They didn't suffer season-long refereeing errors though, just a relatively tiny number of them - relative, that is, to the massive amount of footballing clangers their players made on the field across the whole season. That's the only thing that definitely did for them and all relegated sides, not a couple of dodgy refereeing calls.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #807 on: October 23, 2019, 08:49:45 PM »
Also, it's not relegation but a shocking decision to not give Vidic a red card almost certainly cost us a trophy a few years back, I'd say that game alone works as a pretty big incentive for fans to push for officials to be better.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: VAR
« Reply #808 on: October 23, 2019, 08:50:25 PM »
And I'm not sure you can blame one bad ref for Bolton nearly going bust either.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #809 on: October 23, 2019, 08:54:31 PM »
I'm happy with any football "injustice" ever never being righted. It will make not a jot of a difference to my life. I do hear you people that do, but blimey, football club supporting can be stressful as it is without piling that worry on the top. If you want to try to level the playing field, getting behind salary caps and drafts will do more than fretting over VAR ever will.