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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 54527 times)

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #765 on: October 21, 2019, 07:47:37 PM »
Theyíve basically made up several caveats to the VAR rules to justify incorrect decisions and make excuses. This whole ďVAR canít be involved after a referee has made a decisionď is nonsense especially when VAR is supposed to correct ďclear and obvious mistakesĒ by match officials which is the whole point of having VAR in the first place! The only thing they are consistent in is their inconsistency and pathetic incompetence.

Offline Villafirst

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Re: VAR
« Reply #766 on: October 21, 2019, 07:54:38 PM »
Can I suggest that all VAR's at Stockley Park  immediately undergo a thorough eye examination at Specsavers?

Online London Villan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #767 on: October 21, 2019, 08:04:25 PM »
Sort of defeats the point if the ref has ďseenĒ it!

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #768 on: October 21, 2019, 08:08:25 PM »
Somehow the Cabal called the PGMOL has got control over officiating and is a self serving organization with obvious Conflicts  of Interest.
VAR has just exacerbated the jobs worth stupidity of this for maximum profit and protectionist behavior.
Itís a classic Who Guards the Guards  or Quis custodiet ipsos custodies.?

Offline purpletrousers

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Re: VAR
« Reply #769 on: October 21, 2019, 11:58:30 PM »
Iím another who contrasted the Rugby Saturday morning on TV to the footy Saturday afternoon.

Ruby: ref says heís a bit uncertain about a couple of passes (crowd hear exactly his concerns, I presume on the PA, I know there is the option to pay to hear the ref for the whole match somehow/sometimes).

So the crowd know the uncertainty. VAR man selects and plays the two passes in question on the Big Screen so ref and *everyone* gets the same opportunity to review, with VAR man adding, for him both passes were fine. Ref on the pitch however -retaining authority- says, no, for him the 2nd looks a fwd pass and takes the big decision to disallow the try, everyone knows what the concern is, what the evidence is, what the decision is and why.

Contrast that to silent confusion and mystery, with the decision taken away from the man in charge, and lack of awareness as to when a decision is made. We donít even know when the decision is made to be able to celebrate or not.

One key point that seems to be lost in the Ref on the pitch losing control of the decision, is that he has had an additional angle that cameras didnít. His judgment should be supplemented by evidence (best angle/s available provided quickly to him). He simply has more data as he has his initial impression.

Not working at all at the moment, maybe it will in time, but as well as itís execution itís choice of application needs sorting too.
Embarrassing atm.

Offline The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #770 on: October 22, 2019, 02:43:36 AM »
I don't like VAR.I don't like the whole principle and i don't believe it's as accurate as they'd have us believe when it comes to offsides given for tiny margins. It takes much more away from the game than it provides. I actually didn't celebrate Jack's goal as i thought it would be ruled out and i'd only just put myself through that particular mangle so it ruined the joy of celebration for myself and many others.The elephant in the room is the referees cartel. They are just using it to cover each others backs and now a few arrogant self serving twunts are holding all the power over the beautiful game. Their behaviour is a bit like they have been given the powers of life or death in the Colusseum akin to "The Emperor" and they're revelling in it. I would just bin it but if we must have it then i suggest the clubs insist on it being suspended. New referrees can be invited to join the ranks (after having their eyesight tested) and these could be trained up to use the system properly by an overseeing body of Premier league club officials, ex referees, ex players and League officials. Stringent codes put in place and each new referee to pass a test put in place to prove their competence. If this takes a year for instance then so be it. What's the rush? Once you have enough referees trained up to use the system properly boot out all the current clique and start again with a system designed and implemented by the right people.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #771 on: October 22, 2019, 08:30:43 PM »
It seems so wrong, elongated and poor set up compared to rugby union TMO

I think football as a sport is really incompatible with the technology. Cricket and rugby both have natural breaks but the whole idea of football is it flows more or less continuously.

I don't buy that.

Cricket, yes, but rugby doesn't have any more breaks than football.  There are plenty of occasions the ball is in play for several minutes in rugby, whereas you'd be hard pushed to find the ball in play for more than 60 seconds in most football matches.

VAR could work but the absolute shambles we're currently witnessing is down to the amateur way it's being implemented.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #772 on: October 22, 2019, 08:35:22 PM »
Agree with The Edge. Spot on.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #773 on: October 22, 2019, 09:01:59 PM »
VAR should be used to determine if a ball crosses the line. Everything else needs to be a challenge from the manager. They get max 2 per game and would be limited to things like challenging offsides that led to goals or penalty claims either way. After that itís things like violent play that should be left to a 4th official if the ref/assts have missed it. These incredibly narrow offsides and marginal infractions are killing the game.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: VAR
« Reply #774 on: October 22, 2019, 09:08:33 PM »
Maybe this isn't as haphazard as it looks.

Fans and pundits have been calling for video technology to help officials for years - probably much to the officials chagrin.  Now they're taking the opportunity to make it as unworkable as possible.

Ask most fans now if they want VAR or a return to the previous way of operating with the ref calling the shots and I'm sure most will go for the latter.


Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #775 on: October 22, 2019, 09:36:54 PM »
To those suggesting a finite number of coach's appeals, there's no way a manager/coach can have a decent view of any decision, contentious or otherwise, that happens more than 30 yards from our dugout. You can't see anything from down there. People four rows back in the bottom of the Trinity can see more.

I honestly don't get why our managers don't watch at least the first half from the Directors' box.

Online themossman

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Re: VAR
« Reply #776 on: October 22, 2019, 09:44:46 PM »
It seems so wrong, elongated and poor set up compared to rugby union TMO

I think football as a sport is really incompatible with the technology. Cricket and rugby both have natural breaks but the whole idea of football is it flows more or less continuously.

I don't buy that.

Cricket, yes, but rugby doesn't have any more breaks than football.  There are plenty of occasions the ball is in play for several minutes in rugby, whereas you'd be hard pushed to find the ball in play for more than 60 seconds in most football matches.

VAR could work but the absolute shambles we're currently witnessing is down to the amateur way it's being implemented.

I see what you mean but in rugby the ref is integral to the game, constantly involved when the ball is in play, and has to pull play up frequently, whereas in football they only get involved in infringements, so it seems less jarring to have wait around for a TMO decision.

I dunno, there may be an element just being used to it in that setting and it having been integrated better - but it seems to me like the only way for VAR to be properly integrated in football is for the game to change in lots of subtle but important ways.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #777 on: October 23, 2019, 08:09:58 AM »
The difference is that in rugby and cricket the officials wanted it as a tool to help them. In football they see it as a tool to replace them. Until that changes it stands no chance of being the system the game needs.

I do thijk rugby and football are more similar than many think though,  in terms of the tempo of the game. You'll get teams who slow things down and play for lineouts and scrums, but that's not dissimilar to how Pulis plays, for example.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: VAR
« Reply #778 on: October 23, 2019, 08:17:38 AM »
It's also a slight myth to say that TMO doesn't interrupt the flow of a rugby game. It's just that this is now accepted as part and parcel of the game, because it does correct the ref and it does result in fairer decisions.

But that requires both the refs on the field and the TMO to have integrity. Too often this season we've seen bonkers subjective refereeing decisions go against us, and even if you think that was incompetence rather than bias or malice, you must then accept that there is a lack of integrity in Stockley Park where VAR has invariably failed to overturn the poor decisions of the referees. The behaviour of referees has a bang of 'all for one and one for all' off it, which you just wouldn't get in rugby officiating.

Online themossman

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Re: VAR
« Reply #779 on: October 23, 2019, 08:26:17 AM »
I think you're spot on that the us and them mentality is a big part of the problem, hence the infuriating closing of ranks by the refs when they get it wrong. But then in fairness thatís also born of cultural differences between football vs rugby around respect for / behaviour towards the ref.

You can blame football refs for their mistakes but not their siege mentality.