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Author Topic: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread  (Read 465409 times)

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1695 on: June 14, 2019, 10:15:59 PM »
if carlsberg did transfers
                  wesley
el ghazi       grealish   mcginn    bowen or Benrahma
                  philips
hause    mings       dunk         guilbert
                  butland

we would be safe


Would we?

That team? If we have few injuries and set up correctly, then yes that is a mid table team.

We need 6 or 7 first team squad players as we let that number go.

Less than half of them have ever played Premier League football before and two have never even played in this country before, so what actual basis do you have for thinking that team would finish mid table?

Because "having played in the Premier League" isn't the only criteria you can apply to attempt to judge a player's potential ability.

That's why Lionel Messi is more sought after than, say, Jordan Bowery.

But that is pretty disingenuous really, as none of the players in that team is Messi, or Messi's pale shadow. Jack has great ability and potential but other than him nothing about that XI screams to me "Could on its day be a match for any Premier League side", which is what a comfortable mid table team will ultimately need to be in the modern climate.

We have a good chance of surviving, but I still think it'll be by the skin of our teeth, unless we make a few surprise signings of a higher standard than the ones in JUAN PABLO's eleven above.

Just think people are getting carried away if they think that a young Brazilian striker nobody had ever heard of until yesterday + Jack Butland and a lad who bottled the Championship along with the rest of the Leeds squad = suddenly marching up the premier league table.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1696 on: June 14, 2019, 10:20:41 PM »
What kind of experience? It's already been clearly shown with the Wolves example that a good team with hardly any Premier League experience can prosper (mid table in this context), which was what the original point being questioned, so your reply is a little bit non sequitur.
Saying 'Our team currently doesn't have much experience of the Premier League or, in some cases, English football' is quite true.  Saying 'Wolves did well' doesn't make it false.  Saying 'that lack of experience might be a disadvantage' is a reasonable conclusion.  Saying 'Wolves did well' doesn't make it unreasonable. 

Offline SheffieldVillain

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1697 on: June 14, 2019, 10:20:54 PM »
if carlsberg did transfers
                  wesley
el ghazi       grealish   mcginn    bowen or Benrahma
                  philips
hause    mings       dunk         guilbert
                  butland

we would be safe


Would we?

That team? If we have few injuries and set up correctly, then yes that is a mid table team.

We need 6 or 7 first team squad players as we let that number go.

Less than half of them have ever played Premier League football before and two have never even played in this country before, so what actual basis do you have for thinking that team would finish mid table?

Because "having played in the Premier League" isn't the only criteria you can apply to attempt to judge a player's potential ability.

That's why Lionel Messi is more sought after than, say, Jordan Bowery.

But that is pretty disingenuous really, as none of the players in that team is Messi, or Messi's pale shadow. Jack has great ability and potential but other than him nothing about that XI screams to me "Could on its day be a match for any Premier League side", which is what a comfortable mid table team will ultimately need to be in the modern climate.

We have a good chance of surviving, but I still think it'll be by the skin of our teeth, unless we make a few surprise signings of a higher standard than the ones in JUAN PABLO's eleven above.

Just think people are getting carried away if they think that a young Brazilian striker nobody had ever heard of until yesterday + Jack Butland and a lad who bottled the Championship along with the rest of the Leeds squad = suddenly marching up the premier league table.

Now who's being disingenuous? People are talking about mid-table, not 'marching up the league table'.

That means being better than 6 or 7 of the likes of Sheff Utd, Norwich, Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton, Palace etc - try looking at their squads. Burnley with Westwood and Lowton for example.

And if you're going to start throwing in nonsense like 'a lad who bottled the Championship', lets also have Jack Grealish 'a player who Tottenham wanted in their team', Jack Butland 'the England no 2' and Anwar El Ghazi 'previously played for top clubs in Holland and France'.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1698 on: June 14, 2019, 10:27:35 PM »
We're seeing a reinvention of Aston Villa. Last season, other than two loaned centre-halves which were pretty much necessities we had to find from somewhere, Smith played the hand he was dealt, and got us up at the first time of asking. Now he, and everyone else involved, gets to effectively start from scratch. I think all that matters is that whoever we get in is The Right Player for getting us to where we want to go next. I can not see us bringing in an "experienced" player primarily because of their experience.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1699 on: June 14, 2019, 10:31:15 PM »
I mentioned this before that many are still haunted by the Ghost of Villa PL Past. And thatís ok because it was a nightmare. I donít think it will be remotely the same. That squad, the club, the fans couldnít have been any less united. That along with being better in terms of quality will mean a lot.

Offline Newby

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1700 on: June 14, 2019, 10:39:58 PM »
I mentioned this before that many are still haunted by the Ghost of Villa PL Past. And thatís ok because it was a nightmare. I donít think it will be remotely the same. That squad, the club, the fans couldnít have been any less united. That along with being better in terms of quality will mean a lot.

It's still hope, rather than expectation isn't it?  There remains that little bit of doubt because of the negative journey over the last 8 years or so.  Hopefully, the journey that Christian Purslow talks about is a far more positive experience and doing it with a Villa fan in charge makes me believe that little bit more.

Offline Dribbler

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1701 on: June 14, 2019, 10:42:56 PM »
What kind of experience? It's already been clearly shown with the Wolves example that a good team with hardly any Premier League experience can prosper (mid table in this context), which was what the original point being questioned, so your reply is a little bit non sequitur.
Saying 'Our team currently doesn't have much experience of the Premier League or, in some cases, English football' is quite true.  Saying 'Wolves did well' doesn't make it false.  Saying 'that lack of experience might be a disadvantage' is a reasonable conclusion.  Saying 'Wolves did well' doesn't make it unreasonable. 

Yes "Saying 'that lack of experience might be a disadvantage' is a reasonable conclusion." however it's not a conclusive conclusion, as it's just as reasonable a conclusion to say that it wont be a disadvantage, as evidence shows. In fact it could just as reasonably be said that inexperience of the Premier League could be an advantage, as they are a more unknown quantity to the teams and the managers that manage them. Plus, many a team of experienced players has been relegated from the Premier League, and many a promoted team have survived the first season or two, only to be relegated after they've had a year or two of experience.

What that probably points to, is that it's more about having the right philosophy, structure, management and tactics, with the right players... players with the right attitude, skill and hunger who can develop and grow. From everything that's been consistently said by the club so far, it's the latter attributes we are prioritising.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1702 on: June 14, 2019, 10:56:21 PM »
if carlsberg did transfers
                  wesley
el ghazi       grealish   mcginn    bowen or Benrahma
                  philips
hause    mings       dunk         guilbert
                  butland

we would be safe


Would we?

That team? If we have few injuries and set up correctly, then yes that is a mid table team.

We need 6 or 7 first team squad players as we let that number go.

Less than half of them have ever played Premier League football before and two have never even played in this country before, so what actual basis do you have for thinking that team would finish mid table?

Because "having played in the Premier League" isn't the only criteria you can apply to attempt to judge a player's potential ability.

That's why Lionel Messi is more sought after than, say, Jordan Bowery.

But that is pretty disingenuous really, as none of the players in that team is Messi, or Messi's pale shadow. Jack has great ability and potential but other than him nothing about that XI screams to me "Could on its day be a match for any Premier League side", which is what a comfortable mid table team will ultimately need to be in the modern climate.

We have a good chance of surviving, but I still think it'll be by the skin of our teeth, unless we make a few surprise signings of a higher standard than the ones in JUAN PABLO's eleven above.

Just think people are getting carried away if they think that a young Brazilian striker nobody had ever heard of until yesterday + Jack Butland and a lad who bottled the Championship along with the rest of the Leeds squad = suddenly marching up the premier league table.

Now who's being disingenuous? People are talking about mid-table, not 'marching up the league table'.

That means being better than 6 or 7 of the likes of Sheff Utd, Norwich, Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton, Palace etc - try looking at their squads. Burnley with Westwood and Lowton for example.

And if you're going to start throwing in nonsense like 'a lad who bottled the Championship', lets also have Jack Grealish 'a player who Tottenham wanted in their team', Jack Butland 'the England no 2' and Anwar El Ghazi 'previously played for top clubs in Holland and France'.

Mid-table to me means anywhere from 8th-12th. Anything lower is firmly 'bottom half'. And by the overwhelmingly positive tone of the OP, I was taking it that he was thinking closer to 8th than 12th. Either way I personally think those are out of our reach with the eleven players quoted above.

Hardly nonsense to point out that neither Butland or Phillips actually achieved anything in the Championship last year. Not good enough for 8th-12th place in the PL in my opinion, but if you think so that's great.

Offline SheffieldVillain

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1703 on: June 14, 2019, 11:05:52 PM »
Mid-table to me means anywhere from 8th-12th. Anything lower is firmly 'bottom half'. And by the overwhelmingly positive tone of the OP, I was taking it that he was thinking closer to 8th than 12th. Either way I personally think those are out of our reach with the eleven players quoted above.

Hardly nonsense to point out that neither Butland or Phillips actually achieved anything in the Championship last year. Not good enough for 8th-12th place in the PL in my opinion, but if you think so that's great.

No, I said that the description 'a lad who bottled the championship' for Phillips was nonsense.

Although actually, confusing individual performance with a team's finishing position is almost as stupid now you come to mention it.

Offline FatSam

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1704 on: June 14, 2019, 11:09:41 PM »
Itís good that weíre making some swift progress, especially given the size of the task. It feels to me that even if we accept Taylor, Bjarnason, Green and Hogan as squad players, and Mings and Hause are confirmed, we still need a left back, a centre back, a centre mid, and possibly another striker. Then there are the players we need to shift, Tshibola, and Kalinic (if we buy Butland). Thatís all before we try to improve on Taylor, Bjarnason, Green and Hogan - which might prove too much for this window.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1705 on: June 14, 2019, 11:10:23 PM »
I really hope the days of signing someone for their Premier League experience are long gone.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1706 on: June 14, 2019, 11:25:52 PM »
I really hope the days of signing someone for their Premier League experience are long gone.

Thatís as bollocks an approach as young and hungry was. How about we just get the best players that are attainable to fit the system the manager wants to play without a specific criteria other than heís really quite good. I reckon thatís mostly what we are doing now.

Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1707 on: June 14, 2019, 11:32:02 PM »
I really hope the days of signing someone for their Premier League experience are long gone.

Thatís as bollocks an approach as young and hungry was. How about we just get the best players that are attainable to fit the system the manager wants to play without a specific criteria other than heís really quite good. I reckon thatís mostly what we are doing now.

Exactly. We've signed so many shit experienced players over the years (as well as some good ones) that it seems pretty clear that experience is not the reason why players succeed or fail.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1708 on: June 14, 2019, 11:44:43 PM »
And thatís been my point about the club. Even the very best players will fail when the environment at the club is toxic. Itís 180 degrees from that now. Itís a brilliant place to come to work and we as fans are so connected now with the manager, our captain and literally everything that culminated in promotion. Players will thrive here. The ones we bought in the past, even the good ones had no chance at all in the darkest summer and season we finally went down.

Offline West Derby Villan

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Re: Summer transfer, gossip, speculation thread
« Reply #1709 on: June 14, 2019, 11:49:57 PM »
And thatís been my point about the club. Even the very best players will fail when the environment at the club is toxic. Itís 180 degrees from that now. Itís a brilliant place to come to work and we as fans are so connected now with the manager, our captain and literally everything that culminated in promotion. Players will thrive here. The ones we bought in the past, even the good ones had no chance at all in the darkest summer and season we finally went down.

Yeah 100% this, such a positive place now.