FCG meeting 6th December - minutes

[dave.woodhall]

Operational FCG – Thursday 6th December 2018

Fan Representatives

Jonathan Fear Vital Villa
John Gillett Lions Clubs
Karl Bowater Aston Villa Supporters Trust
Kris Carr Aston Villa Supporters Trust
Joanne Mckibbens Aston Villa Disabled Supporters Association
David Michael My Old Man Said
Scott Jones Villa Talk
Steve Gough Aston Villa Independent Supporters Association


Apologies:
Nick Sanders avillafan.com
Daniel Rolinson Villa View
Dave Woodhall Heroes & Villains



Club Representatives
Paul Tyrell Chief Corporate Affairs Officer
Ian Dimmock Operations Director
Tommy Jordan Communications Director
Wes Johnson Head of Catering
Lee Preece SLO

This meeting had been arranged following the previous FCG held with Christian Purslow on 13th November. At Christians request, and in agreement with the FCG, Christian wanted to ensure his involvement with the FCG ensured open consultation and discussion on higher level strategic areas of the club. Going forward, the FCG will meet bi-annually with Christian for consultation on strategic club matters, and then bi-annually with Senior Exec staff to consult on operational matters.

This meeting was arranged to discuss the operational elements of the agenda not discussed in detail by Christian at the FCG held on Tuesday 13th November – notes for which have already been circulated.

The agenda items raised for the 13th November by the FCG fan reps are shown below, with the club’s responses & relevant discussion points shown in italics.

Items outstanding from 13/11/18 agenda

1) Lions Club use of the Holte Pub. High prices, slow service, no food on offer, not open for midweek fixtures is discouraging members from using the facility.

The club recognises that the Holte Pub is not the “home” that Lions Clubs used to enjoy when housed in the Dave Targett Suite in the Doug Ellis Stand (closed since 2016). Prices are the same as the stadium and other facilities and cannot be changed. There is no kitchen facility within the Pub making increasing food provision difficult, and without a significant investment in restructuring the layout bar service and the overall experience will remain challenging. There are no immediate plans to invest in the Holte Pub at present, and until significant investment is made the club understands that patronage of the facility will be discouraged for some.

The Pub does not open for evening matches (it would be challenging to run the facility profitably for night matches (as we recognise Lions Clubs members, despite best intentions may be unable to arrive early enough in large numbers) making no facility available for Lions Club members. We were asked if Lions Clubs could be allowed access to the Holte Suite for evening matches. The club would only be able to do this at the expense of season ticket holders and subsequently we do not feel this is appropriate to do.

The Dave Targett Suite remains closed on matchdays but is now being used on non-matchdays by the Foundation for delivering educational programmes. There is no immediate plan to reinstate the Dave Targett Suite for Lions Clubs and consideration also needs to be given to the use of this mezzanine level and the benefit that could give to the experience of fans using the Doug Ellis Upper Tier.

2) Disabled: Can we have an FCG sub-group created to tackle the ongoing disable supporter & team issues with a commitment to at least two meetings per season?

Absolutely – the SLO will arrange a meeting for January with the FCG invited to attend, as well as AVDSA reps (Aston Villa Disabled Supporters Association) and AVIDS (Aston Villa Independent Supporters Association).

3) Catering service speed and organisation always comes up…costing the club potential revenue and we’re losing support from the stands during games with hoards of people leaving from the 35 minute mark onwards to actually be served.

Also queues at the Holte Suite are a problem (many don’t go in as it simply takes too long to get through the doors.)

e.g. The catering in the Doug Ellis lower is a shambles. One of us has to go down on the 40 minute mark to join the queue. Several times we have still not been served by the start of the second half. Other clubs seem to manage this task that constantly eludes the Villa.

Catering: why are they incapable of introducing a simple common sense approach to serving beers before the game and at half time…they could quite easily determine demand and have a few hundred pints pulled for a much quicker service.

First discussion point raised was the apparent removal of a sign at one of the low level counters in Trinity Middle & Lower concourse area, reminding fans to leave the low level counter access free for Disabled fans. AVDSA have membership cards that should help staff identify fans with disabilities that need access to the counter (not every disability is visible). Condiment stations can also end up on low level counters again restricting access for those that need them. It benefits the club and service for all if condiment stations are away from counters, so this will be investigated.

Pre-pouring pints was discussed. At every draught kiosk (with the exception of one kiosk in the Holte) pre-pour does take place. Not every fan is prepared to accept a pre-poured pint – we oblige with a fresh poured if requested. We certainly don’t have areas for a few hundred pints to be poured and stored before service as suggested in the agenda – space is limited and stocks soon sell out.

There was a request for staff to be more urgent and work quicker, particularly at half-time. We will ask for a push on this. However, we are sure fans understand that no club is going to cope with demand at half-time. The point was made that the Holte Suite houses a capacity of 650 fans pre-match and 800 (without tables) at half-time. The concourse areas of the lower Holte serve a seating area of 7,500 – without much more space and many more units half-time will always be a challenge.

Bottles were raised – our focus is on more draught provision. One point made by the club was the challenge of how often we open. One quick poor machine that would pour 12 pints a minute costs £20k, and it is difficult to see a return on that kind of investment when only used on matchdays 25 times a year.

Vending machines have been introduced before but then taken out as they have not been successful.

Other matters discussed included staffing, pies, would pre-paid tokens that could be exchanged at tills help.

It was concluded that there clearly a combination of items that speed up service and we will do the best we can. Paul Tyrell will look to visit concourses at half-time to see some of the issues first hand.

With reference to the Holte Suite queues, the flow of season ticket holders in to the suite has to be managed so that we have an accurate count of attendees and we do not exceed the room capacities (stated above). Once the suite is full, some people queue to take the place of anyone that leaves. This may explain occasions where the queue does not move – no-one can enter until somebody leaves.

4) Can the price of AVTV Live for fans abroad be re-visited as a lot of our games were on Sky last season and therefore blacked out. Also what plans have been put in place to up the service after many issues at the start of this season? Are there any plans to up the quality/offering of the service. The FCG has been told before, AVTV streaming service runs on a limited budget, but there is still scope for improvement.

Clearly, the deal with the EFL and the clubs provision, prices charged etc came out of the summer. Paul gave the group a definitive promise – should the club remain in the EFL the service will be better next season. The price was set at the start of the season and the question was asked if the price could be reduced to £5 for 2019 as fans are not seeing the benefit of the extra pound being charged by the club. Our preference is to use the extra £1 to focus on delivering the best service we can for the remainder of the season. We are not making money on the service and would be running at a loss if we reduced the charge.
Since being at the club, Paul Tyrell has invited industry experts to come and assess the service provision and would like to use the next operational FCG to show the work that has been done and the options available going forward.

5) At the last meeting, it was announced by the then CEO that two link-ups with European clubs were to be announced by the end of last season/summer. Nothing happened… Update?

It was confirmed that no links would happen and this is not something the club are looking to pursue.

Additional Points from 13/11/18

1 Social issues – single use plastic, are the club looking at this issue?

The club are aware of this issue. It was also referenced during pre-pour discussions that we are looking at more draught provision.

2 Social issues – free tampons in ladies, other clubs are doing this.

On being made aware of clubs looking to tackle period poverty, the club had felt that there are areas around Villa Park that would benefit from our support in this area. Our Foundation have been looking at ways to support period poverty via our local community links. We are happy to reconsider this approach and will look to use the next FCG to explore the best options in more detail.

3 Pride Rewards issues: Could the rewards be dumped altogether and return to cashback. Or could better rewards be offered. Could unused Pride Reward points be donated to Acorns in some way at the end of the season.

Feedback on Pride Rewards noted and something that will be considered in the New Year.

4 Pan disability team treated differently to the academy teams – they have to buy their own fits whereas the academy from kids to ladies get the full kit supplied. They also don’t get awards, they have to pay for their own awards and ceremony.

We have produced some detail to answer this point which will be emailed separately to the FCG. This explains the full picture and addresses some of the suggestions within this question. Our Foundation have greatly increased the levels of support given.

Not discussed:

1 Trains after midweek games – is this something we can have an influence on?
2 Social issues- High fat, salt, sugar goods big on using football as marketing platform.
3 If there is to be no City Centre store, is there a way to extend out ticket buying options as many find it inconvenient to get to Villa Park to buy tickets but also, not all are online. Is there a scope for a city centre ticket selling partner?
4 Pro actively organised discounts or free seats for under 16s at pre-selected games (including daily stadium tours linked to history) distributed via local schools (throughout the WM and beyond) rather than empty seats in games. The next generation of support needs to be grown. Visibly proactive in the community. Make what is done visible in the media, act like the largest club in the Midlands. Aim to never have less than 35 000 in the stadium for league games. Empty seats tell a story. Wolves will sell out every home game.
5 Years ago the Villa flag and the opposition’s flew above the Holte pub. It looked great bring it back
6 Can we get some new ‘big’ screens installed which are actually, er, ‘big’? Ours are an embarrassment and you can barely see anything from the Upper Holte.
7 Could the new owners re-open the VMF Restaurant situated at Villa Park? It was an excellent community project that showed the club in a good light.
8 The new queuing system in operation where you have to go through a funnel before the turnstiles – slows everything down.

On-going Issues From Previous Meetings… Any Updates?

1 Disable Seating Quota – What are the plans to bring Aston Villa fully within the disabled seating quotas which is an area we’ve been massively behind on for a number of years and we’ve flagged this up several times in FCG’s under the previous management.

As per item 2 from the main agenda, the club will present a full picture of the Disabled seating quota and the work required for us to achieve compliance with the Accessible Stadia Guide.

2 Stadium Redevelopment – obviously North Stand redevelopment is promotion-linked. Any plans for the ground or the shop in the meantime?

There are no plans in the short term.

1 Wifi issues – Any developments? We missed out on 5G trial.

O2 Update

“O2 are absolutely are committed to supporting Aston Villa with the city of Birmingham being one of two (Manchester being the other) whereby O2 are investing heavily.”

O2 reached out to Vodafone to request support for DAS improvements at Villa Park
– it’s worth noting that the SLA is 8 weeks so we are only a couple of weeks into this…..we have raised a priority response.

EE Update

AVFC now has direct contact with the senior executive team @ EE who have been totally supportive in mobilising network specialists to assist. Network engineers have performed intensive network testing in and around Villa Park on match day. Engineers have collected a significant amount of data and are analysing that data and will contact ID with options and next steps.

2 Badge – The current badge is always brought up. Some associate it with bad times and a very unsuccessful spell for the club. If there are ever plans to change, can the FCG be utilised to consult with so we don’t get into the same mess this re-branding brought?

There are no plans in the short term. (Added note by JF.. The club did confirm if they do look to change the badge, they absolutely will consult with the fans via the FCG).

Not discussed:

1 Seat Exchange System – Can the club provide a seat exchange system that doesn’t allow ‘legal touting’ of tickets at ridiculously high prices? Ticketmaster are following Twickets by doing something similar now after a growingly bad reputation for running ticket scalping operations.
2 50p Booking Charge – Concern about the 50p put on every ticket and what it is for?

Other discussions:

Ian Dimmock showed the group video footage of the first goal celebration versus Blues in blocks R1 & R2. The club will need to take some steps to ensure the safety of everyone attending in these areas which we will be implementing across the next few matches. Anyone directly affected by our actions will be contacted accordingly. Further measures may be required in the future.

Tommy Jordan outlined the support from the Foundation and first team players over the last few weeks – some details will follow over the next few days. These included a group receiving a tour of the Training Ground, players & the Manager supporting the cubs Xmas party and player involvement in selecting the six fans to receive half-season tickets as an appreciation of going through difficult times.

Swansea ticket information will be shared shortly. Paul Tyrell outlined the appreciation the club have for the amount it costs to support the club so closely after Xmas and hopes the prices will be seen as a reflection of this. He also outlined that the club had politely declined an offer for the match to be screened on BBC Wales as it would have resulted in the game being moved to the Sunday.

Ian Dimmock confirmed that the improvements made to the PA system is for the provision of Digital Amplifiers to allow the technical team to control volume levels from one source. Up to now, technicians would have to physically move to each stand to react to noise levels. This is part one of the required upgrade.


Supplementary information:

Pan disability team treated differently to the academy teams

- they have to buy their own fits whereas the academy from kids to ladies get the full kit supplied.

- they also don’t get awards, they have to pay for their own awards and ceremony.

The academy teams are funded through the EPPP (through the Premier League and EFL), so there is significantly more funding for academy football. Having said that, the Foundation receives a grant from the Premier League and BT Sport to cover the costs of running a comprehensive disability football programme. Some of the highlights over the last 12 months on the disability football and answers to the points raised are:

421 people with disabilities taking part in our disability programmes since January 2018

80% of these are new to our programmes, so have not done anything with Aston Villa before – this means we are reaching significantly more people now than previously.

This season, playing kit is provided free of charge to the Ability Counts teams – this is the first time they have had a new kit for a number of seasons, but this season they have the new official Luke kit at no cost to the players or parents.

Academy players do get their training kit provided as many of them are on contracts. Comparing the Academy to the Ability Counts isn’t comparing like for like. It is more relevant to compare Ability Counts to other Foundation programmes, for example walking football or the football and education programme.

Aston Villa girls teams get playing strip (like the ability counts teams), but do pay for their own training kit. They get 20% off the retail price, which is the same as the ability counts teams.

This season we have implemented an official discount for Ability Counts players in the shop – previously there has been no formal agreement in place and there has been inconsistencies to the amount of discount applied and who to – this is now consistent across Ability County, Girls, Ladies and Football and Education programmes.

For the last two seasons, we have run end of season awards in the Corner Flag suite (2016/17) and in the Directors Lounge (2017/18).
Previously these have been held in the Gordon Cowans suite in the Academy building, so they are now being held in the most prestigious rooms in the stadium. There has been a minimal charge for both ability counts and Aston Villa Girls end of season awards, which is a small contribution towards the cost of food, trophies, entertainment, waiting staff etc. The contribution made does not cover all of the costs of putting on the event, so it is heavily subsidised on both counts by the Foundation.

The grant we get from the PL and BT Sport massively subsidise the Ability Counts teams and other disability activities. We make a nominal £3 charge to attend training, which has 3-4 members of staff attending, then there are the games programmes that take place every Sunday where centrally we pay for player registration fees, pitch fees, referee fees, as well as staffing costs.

Parents do some of their own fundraising activities which supports with things like awards, Christmas parties etc. but the amount of support for the disability teams is now far greater than it has been before – both in terms of personnel and wider support.

We now have a parent representative group that meets 3-4 times a year with Guy Rippon, Head of Foundation to discuss any issues that are raised by parents.

*Are there any plans to expand the community football for youngsters? Nick says he works for a school in Redditch which was always a hub for Villa training sessions and soccrer schools but WBA Foundation have swept across all that. Worcester region seems to have very little considering large fan base from Redditch/Bromsgrove etc.

A few years ago, the football in the community department did deliver in Redditch and Worcester, that was then the department was funded directly by the football club rather than the Foundation. This was a significant investment by the club and this was reviewed as part of Foundation and Community restructures in 2017.

In 2017 the football in the community work came under the Foundation and there was a need to review all processes and procedures, as well as to make the department financially sustainable.
There was a focus on ensuring a quality experience on the holiday camps, schools coaching and development centres.
Over the last 12 months we feel that we have achieved this with numbers on many holiday courses increasing by up to 100%.

We felt that we needed to get it right in Birmingham first and we are now in a position to start looking at expanding our operations again.
There is a 10 town plan, which identifies the places with a high prevalence of Aston Villa fans, including Redditch and Bromsgrove.

Anything that is delivered in these areas needs to be financially sustainable – i.e. there needs to be enough people paying to attend to cover staffing, travel and facility costs. This is something that we will be reviewing in the next few months as we start to plan for 2019 and beyond.

[pauliewalnuts]

I know this is a pointless, slightly churlish whine, but everything needing to be financially sustainable does not suggest great investment in where we want to go as a club.

That very final point, for example. We'll get out there and promote the club, but it has to cover our costs.

Disappointing not to see more of a spirited approach to growing the club. Being swept away by Albion somewhere like Redditch is unforgiveable.

[amfy]

Doesn’t everything need to be FFP compliant though? In other words - paying for itself rather than speculating too accumulate?

[eamonn]

The PA system is fast becoming the equivalent of the eternal issues with the drainage in the lower field in Ted & Ralph.

[amfy]

Paul Tyrrell was responsible for the new PA system at Derby which is apparently totally state of the art & wants to sort out ours to similar effect.

At the last meeting he asked who of us had been to the Derby game and had we noticed how good the PA system was. We answered that we hadn’t noticed because we were too loud!

[pauliewalnuts]

Doesn’t everything need to be FFP compliant though? In other words - paying for itself rather than speculating too accumulate?

No. The bigger picture does, in terms of income, but that does not mean that every single thing we do needs to be, and in this case, they're talking about stuff that would be covered for months by a day of Alan Hutton's wages.

I don't want to sound negative, but I just want to think we are investing wisely to grow the club, and there isn't very much at all in the above that makes me think we are.

[SoccerHQ]

Would hate to have to catch a train Sutton way after a midweek game (get a lift from Star City instead).

Not sure what the club can do really as cross city line goes half hour from half 7 but must be very frustrating particularly as one of the trains comes in at 9.40pm into Aston so not idea if you don't want to leave an exciting match like Forest early.

[amfy]

I am pretty sure that it is possible to put an extra train on on the nights we have a game because the tracks aren’t crowded at that time of night so there would no doubt be a slot getting in and out of New Street.

However - as there are no ticket checks due to the numbers of people they need to move onto the platform in a short space of time, I’m not sure what the benefits would be for the train provider.

It is a nightmare though, and I am now resigned to driving to night games as Leaving at full time I don’t get on a train til 10.40.

[Border villan]

 Another triumph for Doug Ellis lower catering. To reduce the hot drinks queue one kiosk simply ran out of milk at the beginning of half time. A cold drink, noooo, the full chiller cabinet was padlocked and they could not find the correct key.
More money lost for the club, but why care we will all be back next Sunday to be treated like an inconvenience again.

[adrenachrome]

Another triumph for Doug Ellis lower catering. To reduce the hot drinks queue one kiosk simply ran out of milk at the beginning of half time. A cold drink, noooo, the full chiller cabinet was padlocked and they could not find the correct key.
More money lost for the club, but why care we will all be back next Sunday to be treated like an inconvenience again.

The DE upper is way beyond a joke. I always  use to leg it to the Lion's Club lounge to avoid it.

The bogs are heaven sent for vexatious litigants willing to take a tumble.

[dave.woodhall]

I am pretty sure that it is possible to put an extra train on on the nights we have a game because the tracks aren’t crowded at that time of night so there would no doubt be a slot getting in and out of New Street.

However - as there are no ticket checks due to the numbers of people they need to move onto the platform in a short space of time, I’m not sure what the benefits would be for the train provider.

It is a nightmare though, and I am now resigned to driving to night games as Leaving at full time I don’t get on a train til 10.40.

Public transport is brought up regularly at the response is always the same - the train companies don't want to know.

[SoccerHQ]

I am pretty sure that it is possible to put an extra train on on the nights we have a game because the tracks aren’t crowded at that time of night so there would no doubt be a slot getting in and out of New Street.

However - as there are no ticket checks due to the numbers of people they need to move onto the platform in a short space of time, I’m not sure what the benefits would be for the train provider.

It is a nightmare though, and I am now resigned to driving to night games as Leaving at full time I don’t get on a train til 10.40.

Public transport is brought up regularly at the response is always the same - the train companies don't want to know.

Too much hassle for them, most of their fleet goes back to depot after half 7 for maintenance, cleaning etc then you'd have to timetable the new trains for midweek games.

Frustrating as I imagine it's a nightmare using them especially for the 7.45 games as one leaves New Steet at 9.35pm so will miss that one coming into Aston unless you're Usain Bolt.