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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1521903 times)

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3615 on: February 16, 2019, 10:55:32 PM »
Maybe some of our prospects should have stopped at the club, and been coached and given game time so they are exactly as the manager wants them for next season. Now there’s a crazy idea!!

That's why Andre Green has come back.

The others imo not ready, RHM and O'Hare should've gone out on loan last season so I think they're a year behind in their development so loans should do them good and then we'll see what they're like in pre season as next season will be make-or-break you suspect.

Online aj2k77

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3616 on: February 16, 2019, 11:01:31 PM »
I like Andre Green but don't think he's any good.

Offline adrenachrome

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3617 on: February 16, 2019, 11:02:31 PM »
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

Watch their recent game at Elland Road which was even more impressive.

Online ASHTONVILLA

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3618 on: February 16, 2019, 11:09:11 PM »
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

You could probably list more clubs that stuck with managers and it got worse. We need to see signs of a plan, of players improving and of good purchases. So far Smith has been abject, his impact is similar to that of Garde except Smith has had the thick end of £10m to spend.

We cant just trust if enough time is given the manager will come good, look at Lambert, Bruce, McCleish. You can't just cite Fergusson took 7 years at Man U to win anything. There are plenty of examples of clubs that chop and change managers until they get it right that do very well. Look at Wolves for instance, do you think their fans wish they had given Zenga or Lambert more time? If no improvement happens in the next 4-5 games we need to get rid.

Offline LukeJames

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3619 on: February 16, 2019, 11:14:16 PM »
Apart from this time we aren't just changing the manager. We are changing the whole ethos of the club. This is not a quick fix, especially with the current group of plodders we have to select from.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3620 on: February 16, 2019, 11:18:29 PM »
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

You could probably list more clubs that stuck with managers and it got worse. We need to see signs of a plan, of players improving and of good purchases. So far Smith has been abject, his impact is similar to that of Garde except Smith has had the thick end of £10m to spend.

We cant just trust if enough time is given the manager will come good, look at Lambert, Bruce, McCleish. You can't just cite Fergusson took 7 years at Man U to win anything. There are plenty of examples of clubs that chop and change managers until they get it right that do very well. Look at Wolves for instance, do you think their fans wish they had given Zenga or Lambert more time? If no improvement happens in the next 4-5 games we need to get rid.

And get killed in the rush of top-quality applicants for a job where one manager out of the previous five will have lasted more than a year.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3621 on: February 16, 2019, 11:24:24 PM »
I like Andre Green but don't think he's any good.

All debatable but undeniable he's much more advanced in his career than RHM or O'Hare given his loan was with a club who were at the time top of league 1.

Offline rougegorge

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3622 on: February 16, 2019, 11:40:38 PM »
Watch Norwich's goal at Bolton. That's why you stick by a good idea, even during the lean times. Sensational football.

You could probably list more clubs that stuck with managers and it got worse. We need to see signs of a plan, of players improving and of good purchases. So far Smith has been abject, his impact is similar to that of Garde except Smith has had the thick end of £10m to spend.

We cant just trust if enough time is given the manager will come good, look at Lambert, Bruce, McCleish. You can't just cite Fergusson took 7 years at Man U to win anything. There are plenty of examples of clubs that chop and change managers until they get it right that do very well. Look at Wolves for instance, do you think their fans wish they had given Zenga or Lambert more time? If no improvement happens in the next 4-5 games we need to get rid.

And get killed in the rush of top-quality applicants for a job where one manager out of the previous five will have lasted more than a year.
I agree with Ashtonvilla about managers.
Also, it's easy enough to find an example to fit an argument for one way or the other. For example, Watford have done ok and actually hiring and firing has worked very well for them.

Offline LukeJames

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3623 on: February 16, 2019, 11:43:28 PM »
And the reason why Watfords model works so well is because of there back room set up and there relationship with other clubs, which is the way we are attempting to go now. Sacking the manager at the first sign of a bad run is not how Watford began that model.

Offline rougegorge

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3624 on: February 17, 2019, 12:12:43 AM »
Their relationship with other clubs was due to the Pozzo family buying up clubs and I don't think that's what we are planning.

Their model may have begun differently but over the last few years it does involve the hire and fire approach. They readily get rid of managers once they evaluate that the club could do better or if their manager has a poor run of results like Flores and Mazzarri.


Offline Ketzster

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3625 on: February 17, 2019, 12:23:32 AM »
But these performances are new level low bad, and it's not as though it's a couple of games. Yes of course sitting at Chelsea through all 8 goals was awful but they had Hazard, Lampard, etc, whch is incomparable to what Wigan put out six weeks ago against us. This is far, far worse.

14 games is a long run for performances of this particular level of to go on for. There have been no glimmers of hope or anything to latch onto. To go into Wigan away using the same formation after the Swansea cup game seemed silly at the time, but to then play the Hull game with the same formation and so on, and so on. People say he needs his own players, but you can't go through a whole season using only one tactic if you want to be successful. Teams will work you out and it's too easy to prepare for. We sign a load of players to play this 4-3-3, one or two get injured, and we're stuffed again next season. It's not stupid to say that because the evidence is there from this season to show he can't handle it. And that has to be considered when it comes to deciding whether he should be given time. So far he's failing massively. The players might well have their faults but they are not THIS bad.

And people say no short term fix is good. Well you're a lot better off getting promoted and coming back down because you get the parachute payments again. Get promoted with a short term fix if needs be (just because Bruce didn't work doesn't mean somebody else might not), then look to do the rebuild and change the philosophy of the club, not go for a long term solution with a manager who evidently isn't up to the job and is currently cementing us as a lower end of the championship side. Crystal Palace took 4 weeks to sack De Boer when they realised they'd got it wrong. We have got this one wrong, and there is no point giving the wrong person time. Yes the merry go round of Villa managers needs to stop, but only when we find the right person, and that is looking more certain that that person isn't Dean Smith



« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 12:27:32 AM by Ketzster »

Offline OzVilla

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3626 on: February 17, 2019, 12:31:53 AM »
I think Smith needs time to get the squad he wants. He has a philosophy and granted that isn’t working with this squad at the moment but I think he and the owners realise that long term we need to identify a playing style and have some stability and buy in right across the squad. This squad is simply not fit for purpose right now. There are square pegs and round holes everywhere.

I’m expecting they’ll be a lot of changes by the the start of next season and I’m happy to give him that time then see how we are after 12 games. I’m hating this season but still quite excited for next, especially as most of the dross we have will finally have been binned.

Offline Steve67

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3627 on: February 17, 2019, 12:35:39 AM »
Who do you suggest Ketzster?  Who has that magic formula of capable, available, willing?

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3628 on: February 17, 2019, 12:49:29 AM »
It would be massively foolish to get rid of him now without truly giving him an opportunity to mould his own squad.

Brentford didn’t just happen. It took time and bringing in the right types of player and what it showed is as a club you don’t need to break the bank. Smith needs time to completely overhaul the playing staff. What he’s got now clearly isn’t working. Hopefully for all concerned it is revealing a path forward, the players he needs to clear out along with what he will need in replacement.

Offline KRS

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3629 on: February 17, 2019, 01:23:02 AM »
But these performances are new level low bad, and it's not as though it's a couple of games. Yes of course sitting at Chelsea through all 8 goals was awful but they had Hazard, Lampard, etc, whch is incomparable to what Wigan put out six weeks ago against us. This is far, far worse.

14 games is a long run for performances of this particular level of to go on for. There have been no glimmers of hope or anything to latch onto. To go into Wigan away using the same formation after the Swansea cup game seemed silly at the time, but to then play the Hull game with the same formation and so on, and so on. People say he needs his own players, but you can't go through a whole season using only one tactic if you want to be successful. Teams will work you out and it's too easy to prepare for. We sign a load of players to play this 4-3-3, one or two get injured, and we're stuffed again next season. It's not stupid to say that because the evidence is there from this season to show he can't handle it. And that has to be considered when it comes to deciding whether he should be given time. So far he's failing massively. The players might well have their faults but they are not THIS bad.

And people say no short term fix is good. Well you're a lot better off getting promoted and coming back down because you get the parachute payments again. Get promoted with a short term fix if needs be (just because Bruce didn't work doesn't mean somebody else might not), then look to do the rebuild and change the philosophy of the club, not go for a long term solution with a manager who evidently isn't up to the job and is currently cementing us as a lower end of the championship side. Crystal Palace took 4 weeks to sack De Boer when they realised they'd got it wrong. We have got this one wrong, and there is no point giving the wrong person time. Yes the merry go round of Villa managers needs to stop, but only when we find the right person, and that is looking more certain that that person isn't Dean Smith
No. Wrong on so many of your points.

 


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