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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1522868 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3075 on: February 10, 2019, 11:17:26 PM »
Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
That's a bit unfair. It's not easy to get real quality players for those key positions. There was no point in buying with haste and ending up with more waste.

Neil Taylor is the one of the worst left backs I’ve ever seen. There wasn’t a single gettable replacement anywhere in the world of football who would have improved us?

Look how many goals we ship, and look at how many originate from the flanks. Hutton was at least partially responsible for two of Sheffield’s goals on Friday. Add in no decent defensive midfielder, and the failure to replace any of these three is why we’re dropping further and further away from the play offs, and will be lucky at this rate to finish mid table.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3076 on: February 10, 2019, 11:30:46 PM »
I reckon the main reason we didn't sign more players is that we're no longer so stupid as to keep bringing in players and fecking ourselves up financially. Or at least I hope it is considering the absolute mess we got ourselves into in the summer from doing it as a second division club, if we haven't learnt from that we never will.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3077 on: February 10, 2019, 11:43:46 PM »
I reckon the main reason we didn't sign more players is that we're no longer so stupid as to keep bringing in players and fecking ourselves up financially. Or at least I hope it is considering the absolute mess we got ourselves into in the summer from doing it as a second division club, if we haven't learnt from that we never will.

Not getting promoted is going to cost us rather more.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3078 on: February 10, 2019, 11:49:43 PM »
It really won't. I'm desperate to get out of this division, not desperate enough to risk spending money we don't have and end up once again facing what we did 6 months ago though.

Offline robleflaneur

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3079 on: February 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM »
There's a myriad of reasons.

Looking at pre-season, Wagnar took over at Huddersfield in 19th, they finished in 19th. Spent the summer doing double training, took them on some bizarre special forces type selection training week in the Swedish wilderness and they came back running everybody off the park. Promoted.

Warnock took over another limited side, probably did better to get then 12th and then drilled a work ethic into them. Promoted too.

Farke has had 4 windows now and they're going up.

There's certainly something in it when you're going from one style to another. The whole "they're professionals" and should be able to get on with it smacks of naivety and somebody whose never managed. Managing is like trying to herd cats.

Look at Snoddy last season and look at him now. He's probably a stone lighter at least. Bruce clearly had a laissez faire attitude to preparation; fitness, tactics and squad building.

We saw significant improvement; men hitting the box, quick movement of the ball and some dominating displays.

What's changed is how the wide play has dropped. We're slow to transition wide and we've slowed down how quick we move the game on.

We've also dropped deeper to accomodate Whelan. This happened during the good run. Think chalk and cheese of the first 30 odd minutes against the Noses.

Grealish and Tuanzebe contributed to moving it wide or out of defence and in the former, taking players away to create space. Our movement looks poor because our midfield doesn't switch it or move it on.

We've seen flashes during this run. Second half against Swansea we got Hourihane further forward and really deserved to win. We spent 15 minutes battering Sheffield. 25 good minutes against QPR.

It's not enough at the moment though.
Very good points here.As regards the  criticisms of others as regards fitness,Bruce initially improved the fitness of RDM's squad which would get battered in the last 15 minutes.Whether those fitness levels have been maintained is hard to quantify because Villa unusually have scored lots of late goals this season.
What is not in doubt is the midfield is not equipped to deal with the pace of the Championship.To be fair probably no Championship midfield is,witness Sheffield's capitulation.However,our is one of the slowest along with Albion's who are prospering because of their attacking prowess.
The identikit good Championship  side seems to play one two touch rapid passing and develop attacks as quick as possible,Derby,Norwich,Sheff U,Leeds and Forest spring to mind.What they lack at times is accuracy and good defenders.
What we had with Grealish was the  possession,accuracy and the ability to bring wide players into play in the final third and provide skill as an antidote to fast running as Clough and Shankly used to preach about the ball moving faster tha n players .The essence of Whelan's game changing cameo on Friday in a similar  but slower vein to Clough's go to midfielder ,McGovern  who was fundemental to Derby and Forest winning the league and like Ken McNaught was the only Scot to have won the European Cup without winning a cap because he seemed so ordinary,decent defensively and could offer quick short accurate passing which led to counter attacks but was ignored because he didn't offer the more eye catching flamboyancy of others.A Carrick compared to the Lampards and Gerrards.
In essence,I hope that we will become a superior Brentford,a skilful side that moves the ball quickly and whose players offer good movement that is difficult to defend against.



Offline Brassneck

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3080 on: February 11, 2019, 06:12:20 AM »
Utter, utter bollocks. We needed a right back, a left back and decent midfielder immediately. We got none of those.
That's a bit unfair. It's not easy to get real quality players for those key positions. There was no point in buying with haste and ending up with more waste.

Neil Taylor is the one of the worst left backs I’ve ever seen. There wasn’t a single gettable replacement anywhere in the world of football who would have improved us?

Look how many goals we ship, and look at how many originate from the flanks. Hutton was at least partially responsible for two of Sheffield’s goals on Friday. Add in no decent defensive midfielder, and the failure to replace any of these three is why we’re dropping further and further away from the play offs, and will be lucky at this rate to finish mid table.

So you think that we didn't address those positions because we didn't want to?

When the new owners came in, one of the first things they stated was that this wasn't going to be a quick fix.  It is ridiculous to expect 6 positions to be addressed in a January transfer window.  We've got the RB we want but only on condition that he stays in France for the remainder of the season.  We tried for Fer so we clearly attempted to address the defensive midfielder.  I'm sure that at least one of the "spinning plates" was for a LB.

Yes - In an ideal world, we'd have brought players in to fill those positions but you have to understand how difficult it is in January.  Nobody wants to lose good players and prices are inflated.  You are extremely naive if you think it's as simple as "there must be someone, somewhere in the world"

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3081 on: February 11, 2019, 06:17:07 AM »
So Smith hasn’t had 4 months to work on their fitness, if it’s as suspect as people claim.

And the fitness prior to him arriving was that bad he played the oldest member of the squad in every game over the hectic Christmas period.

You do realise there is only so much work that can be carried out when you are playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday and with a hectic Xmas schedule looming.

Also, you need to be aware of the injuries we had incurred during the Xmas period, making Whelan the most obvious choice.  None of the team are at the level of fitness Smith desires, even the young early 20 year olds.

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3082 on: February 11, 2019, 06:18:26 AM »
There's a myriad of reasons.

Looking at pre-season, Wagnar took over at Huddersfield in 19th, they finished in 19th. Spent the summer doing double training, took them on some bizarre special forces type selection training week in the Swedish wilderness and they came back running everybody off the park. Promoted.

Warnock took over another limited side, probably did better to get then 12th and then drilled a work ethic into them. Promoted too.

Farke has had 4 windows now and they're going up.

There's certainly something in it when you're going from one style to another. The whole "they're professionals" and should be able to get on with it smacks of naivety and somebody whose never managed. Managing is like trying to herd cats.

Look at Snoddy last season and look at him now. He's probably a stone lighter at least. Bruce clearly had a laissez faire attitude to preparation; fitness, tactics and squad building.

We saw significant improvement; men hitting the box, quick movement of the ball and some dominating displays.

What's changed is how the wide play has dropped. We're slow to transition wide and we've slowed down how quick we move the game on.

We've also dropped deeper to accomodate Whelan. This happened during the good run. Think chalk and cheese of the first 30 odd minutes against the Noses.

Grealish and Tuanzebe contributed to moving it wide or out of defence and in the former, taking players away to create space. Our movement looks poor because our midfield doesn't switch it or move it on.

We've seen flashes during this run. Second half against Swansea we got Hourihane further forward and really deserved to win. We spent 15 minutes battering Sheffield. 25 good minutes against QPR.

It's not enough at the moment though.
Very good points here.As regards the  criticisms of others as regards fitness,Bruce initially improved the fitness of RDM's squad which would get battered in the last 15 minutes.Whether those fitness levels have been maintained is hard to quantify because Villa unusually have scored lots of late goals this season.
What is not in doubt is the midfield is not equipped to deal with the pace of the Championship.To be fair probably no Championship midfield is,witness Sheffield's capitulation.However,our is one of the slowest along with Albion's who are prospering because of their attacking prowess.
The identikit good Championship  side seems to play one two touch rapid passing and develop attacks as quick as possible,Derby,Norwich,Sheff U,Leeds and Forest spring to mind.What they lack at times is accuracy and good defenders.
What we had with Grealish was the  possession,accuracy and the ability to bring wide players into play in the final third and provide skill as an antidote to fast running as Clough and Shankly used to preach about the ball moving faster tha n players .The essence of Whelan's game changing cameo on Friday in a similar  but slower vein to Clough's go to midfielder ,McGovern  who was fundemental to Derby and Forest winning the league and like Ken McNaught was the only Scot to have won the European Cup without winning a cap because he seemed so ordinary,decent defensively and could offer quick short accurate passing which led to counter attacks but was ignored because he didn't offer the more eye catching flamboyancy of others.A Carrick compared to the Lampards and Gerrards.
In essence,I hope that we will become a superior Brentford,a skilful side that moves the ball quickly and whose players offer good movement that is difficult to defend against.

Wasn't there a stat at the time of Smith's appointment that had Villa players covering the least amount of ground per game in the entire division?

Online Clampy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3083 on: February 11, 2019, 07:11:15 AM »
I reckon the main reason we didn't sign more players is that we're no longer so stupid as to keep bringing in players and fecking ourselves up financially. Or at least I hope it is considering the absolute mess we got ourselves into in the summer from doing it as a second division club, if we haven't learnt from that we never will.

Agree. For example, there was no point in bringing in any old left back just because we needed an upgrade on Taylor plus adding to the wage bill.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3084 on: February 11, 2019, 07:38:30 AM »
I actually think that should have been addressed - by Bruce when he had the opportunity on the summer. i think the latest accounts will make interesting reading.

Offline passitsideways

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3085 on: February 11, 2019, 07:41:50 AM »
Mings presumably is an attempt to kill two birds with one stone - someone who can fill in at CB while Chester and Tuanzebe are working through their injuries and Hause settles in, and then becomes an option at LB.

As for the broader picture, as has already been pointed out by a fair few people in this thread, having Grealish in there gave a false impression as to how far along the rest of the team in coming to grips with the way Smith wants to play. Even if we had someone who could play the linking role 50% as well as Jack, I daresay things would've looked much more encouraging over the past dozen or so games.

Offline brian green

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3086 on: February 11, 2019, 07:44:53 AM »
I would sooner see no inward movements if all they are going to be is makeshift fingers in the dyke.  Time and effort, and coaching and encouragement going into the development of our own young players is far more productive in the medium and long term than rummaging around in the remaindered pile.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3087 on: February 11, 2019, 07:49:50 AM »
of course you're right Brian in an ideal world, but the reality is every club in this league relies on loans and  developing players that aren't theirs. We are in for a particularly interesting summer with so many senior and younger players out of contract.

Offline brian green

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3088 on: February 11, 2019, 08:12:07 AM »
Of course Mr U.  The widest sense you are right but I am being selfish, as I feel those of us like you and me and the many others who have endured the despair of our slide to our current plight are entitled to be.  Basically if we are to endure being dominated by teams we regard as inferior I would sooner see O'Hare, RHM, H-D, Green, Davis and others being forged in the fires of first team football than standing at The Abbey Ground listening to the carrot crunchers purring over their transformation as an attacking team.

Online Clampy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #3089 on: February 11, 2019, 08:26:03 AM »
I actually think that should have been addressed - by Bruce when he had the opportunity on the summer. i think the latest accounts will make interesting reading.

If you mean the left back issue should have been addressed in the summer, I agree although in fairness, we did have Joe Bryan sitting at the Belfry or wherever he was until he'd got a better offer.

 


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