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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1523329 times)

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2670 on: January 22, 2019, 08:44:15 AM »
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.

The scenarios are completely different though.

We need a new team and we've got no money.

Personally, I am hoping against hope that we can keep Jack/nobody triggers his release clause.  My worry is that I doubt Jack would have signed if the release clause was as high as £40 million.  I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

In an ideal world, we keep Jack but being positive, selling him will go some way to helping rebuild the team which is an absolute must.


Offline SheffieldVillain

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2671 on: January 22, 2019, 08:51:22 AM »
I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

You say that, but it's not impossible if we are more clever than we have been in the last decade with purchases. Our best buy for years has been McGinn and we paid what - £3m for him? - instead of the millions we spunked on Hogan, McCormack etc. They're out there if we can be bothered to look.

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2672 on: January 22, 2019, 09:01:29 AM »
I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

You say that, but it's not impossible if we are more clever than we have been in the last decade with purchases. Our best buy for years has been McGinn and we paid what - £3m for him? - instead of the millions we spunked on Hogan, McCormack etc. They're out there if we can be bothered to look.

I wouldn't disagree - However, we have tried this route previously, Jordan Bowrey springs to mind.

Every player you sign is a gamble as there is no guarantee and every kind of signing comes with risks (foreign player/young up & coming player/aging PL player/etc)

Generally, money gets you the best players as Man City, Chelsea etc prove.  Also the last 2 Championship winners (Newcastle & Wolves) both spent big.

Realistically, to improve each position, we are going to have to spend at least £3 million per player, probably more.  We are also going to need a striker who will probably set us back double figures.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2673 on: January 22, 2019, 09:15:18 AM »
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.

The scenarios are completely different though.

We need a new team and we've got no money.

Personally, I am hoping against hope that we can keep Jack/nobody triggers his release clause.  My worry is that I doubt Jack would have signed if the release clause was as high as £40 million.  I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

In an ideal world, we keep Jack but being positive, selling him will go some way to helping rebuild the team which is an absolute must.



We've got no money?

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2674 on: January 22, 2019, 09:17:30 AM »
I wonder if Tottenham fans spend as much time fantazing about selling Kane to Madrid in the summer.

The scenarios are completely different though.

We need a new team and we've got no money.

Personally, I am hoping against hope that we can keep Jack/nobody triggers his release clause.  My worry is that I doubt Jack would have signed if the release clause was as high as £40 million.  I would imagine that it will be between £20-30 million which won't buy us a new team.

In an ideal world, we keep Jack but being positive, selling him will go some way to helping rebuild the team which is an absolute must.



We've got no money?
Perhaps he means we're not allowed to spend it, which I think amounts to broadly the same thing, at least until we have a proper grip on FFP.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2675 on: January 22, 2019, 10:50:26 AM »
With the best will in the world it's gonna take the best part of  50m and 3/4 seasons to totally rebuild our squad for the premiership with players who look like they could survive a season in the premier - i'm basing that on being able to spend 10-15m each season, paying an average of 3m for each player and the fact only Mcginn chester and Grealish could possibly thrive in the premier currently. So that's 7/8 first team players to replace and those in the 1st team or reserves currently who aren't good enough to be reserves, so probably another 8 players. A massive job.

Even if you go the Bruce route and just worry about a promotion side, I'd say we currently need to replace 4 first team players if Grealish was fit (and that's relying on Kalinic and Hause working out). And then you look at our reserves and whether they can cover for injuries. i'd say another 7 1st team positions haven't got adequate cover where a reserve is good enough to cover mid/long term injury. So overall that's another 30m and 2/3 seasons. No wonder Bruce went the loan route.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:56:07 AM by sickbeggar »

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2676 on: January 22, 2019, 10:56:12 AM »

With the best will in the world it's gonna the best part of  50m and 3/4 seasons to totally rebuild our squad for the premiership with players who look like they could survive a season in the premier - i'm basing that on being able to spend 10-15m each season, paying an average of 3m for each player and the fact only Mcginn chester and Grealish could possibly thrive in the premier currently. So that's 7/8 first team players to replace and those in the 1st team or reserves currently who aren't good enough to be reserves, so probably another 8 players. A massive job.

Even if you go the Bruce route and just worry about a promotion side, I'd say we currently need to replace 4 first team players if Grealish was fit (and that's relying on Kalinic and Hause working out). And then you look at our reserves and whether they can cover for injuries. i'd say another 7 1st team positions haven't got adequate cover where a reserve is good enough to cover mid/long term injury. So overall that's another 30m and 2/3 seasons. No wonder Bruce went the loan route.

The problem with that though, is that if you manage to sign the players good enough to get you up and who'd be good enough to keep you up, there's no way they're going to hang around being a Championship player for 3 or 4 years.  I can't see anyway that Grealish will stick around for another year, and it would be likely that McGinn would move on too.

Offline oldhill_avfc

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2677 on: January 22, 2019, 10:56:45 AM »
The bigger worry is he'll want to leave without promotion (and who could blame him) - rather than needing to be sold to fund squad redevelopment.


Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2678 on: January 22, 2019, 11:00:24 AM »

With the best will in the world it's gonna the best part of  50m and 3/4 seasons to totally rebuild our squad for the premiership with players who look like they could survive a season in the premier - i'm basing that on being able to spend 10-15m each season, paying an average of 3m for each player and the fact only Mcginn chester and Grealish could possibly thrive in the premier currently. So that's 7/8 first team players to replace and those in the 1st team or reserves currently who aren't good enough to be reserves, so probably another 8 players. A massive job.

Even if you go the Bruce route and just worry about a promotion side, I'd say we currently need to replace 4 first team players if Grealish was fit (and that's relying on Kalinic and Hause working out). And then you look at our reserves and whether they can cover for injuries. i'd say another 7 1st team positions haven't got adequate cover where a reserve is good enough to cover mid/long term injury. So overall that's another 30m and 2/3 seasons. No wonder Bruce went the loan route.

The problem with that though, is that if you manage to sign the players good enough to get you up and who'd be good enough to keep you up, there's no way they're going to hang around being a Championship player for 3 or 4 years.  I can't see anyway that Grealish will stick around for another year, and it would be likely that McGinn would move on too.

yep, I did realise that flaw with my thinking. I Just chose to ignore it 8) End of the day though, you can't base team-building plans on how long you think your better players will stick around for. We've got to look at a gradual and yes, long term plan, so this window you'd hope some positions will be looked at urgently whether that's the permanent player DS wants or a loan till he can get them in the summer, and then you've got the natural process of replacing players out of contract in the summer with 1st team players in their positions and not more reserves, loans or hopeful punts who may/may not work out.

So for example

Jedinak/Whelan  - now I want someone in now, but we need them both properly replaced in the summer or at least 1 with a youth player promoted if they're up to it.

Elphick - needs replacing with quality so we have at least 3 quality centre halves and 1 youth possibly so Chester, Hause if he works out, a.n.other and youth player. Richards off the wage bill will cover the wages and probably another 2 players on top of that.

Hutton - erm. Well again we need someone in now, but we need a minimum of 1 left back and 1 right back. Sort out the reserves from the crap that's left, but ideally 2 of each in, De laet going should free up some wages and mebbe Bruce will come in for Taylor/Elmo

Bunn/Steer - let them both go. We have 2 keepers and they're not good enough

So that's a maximum of 9 players in/5 minimum or 27m/15m just based on those out of contract. If we spend 27m i'd be amazed personally but there you go, and that's not including replacing Abraham/Ghazi. As I said, massive job.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:56:20 AM by sickbeggar »

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2679 on: January 22, 2019, 12:02:07 PM »
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2680 on: January 22, 2019, 12:12:41 PM »
Where do people come up with the stuff?

Whose been promoted recently needing to have spent £50m?

to guarantee staying up is the point, and lets face it Fulham spent much more than that in May, and 20m  to get promoted with far fewer players to replace than us



Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2681 on: January 22, 2019, 12:52:35 PM »
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.

Offline Villa75

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2682 on: January 22, 2019, 12:56:06 PM »
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.

Agreed.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2683 on: January 22, 2019, 01:03:55 PM »
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.


And how do we do that without spending a shitload of money? Look at the players leaving or on loan this season and tell me honestly, who you would re-sign, replace with new signings, replace with existing players/youth/loans and then give me your budget to do it

Bunn
Steer
Elphick
Tuanzebe
Hause
Hutton
De Laet
Whelan
Jedinak
Bolasie
El ghazi
Abraham


« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 01:06:41 PM by sickbeggar »

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #2684 on: January 22, 2019, 01:10:27 PM »
And Huddersfield and Burnley spent far less.

I really don't understand why people are concerned about how we'd fare in the top flight. Let's get there first.


And how do we do that without spending a shitload of money? Look at the players leaving or on loan this season and tell me honestly, who you would re-sign, replace with new signings, replace with existing players/youth/loans and then give me your budget to do it

Bunn
Steer
Elphick
Tuanzebe
Hause
Hutton
De Laet
Whelan
Jedinak
Bolasie
El ghazi
Abraham

I'd like to keep Abraham and Tuanzebe from that lot and let the rest go.

Sign a new CM, CB would cover the rest. Hause I'm not sure about as we've not seen him properly yet.

In the wages you'd save you could make a couple of really decent signings.

 


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