Dean Smith - Confirmed

[brian green]

To support your case john, I was not at all surprised that Fat Sam ruled himself out of the at Huddersfield job on the one, single, unvarnished reason that he could not keep them in the Premiership.   Not a word about improving the team, developing them, playing football the loyal fans wanted to see, rebuilding for the future.  None of that.  I can't  save you.  End of.

Like having a potential son in law puke up the chance to marry your daughter because she might not give you any grandchildren.

[Hookeysmith]

The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

[Clampy]

The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

I think that's unfair about Taylor. He was doing ok until he went off injured against Sandwell and he's not been back long this time (wasn't the Cup game his first game back or was it Wigan)?). So i'm not sure it was down to him thinking he was first choice left back to be honest. He had a piss poor game at Wigan like nearly all of them did. That said, we do need an upgrade on him.

[john e]

The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

Lambert came with a reputation of playing good attacking football though, he had a football philosophy we thought we could buy into
he ended up becoming exactly the same as the other British dinosaurs

I just don't want Smith to go the same way, and the subs on Saturday were straight out of the Bruce/Lambert/Mcliesh book of tactics
it just worries me because we've been here before and I am buying into a new dawn and all that but the years of constant let downs have made me paranoid

[brontebilly]

So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.

I call it not having a plan B because there is no plan B available as he has inherited a load of shite and we can't afford to buy our way out of it.  Yes, it was a shit decision, but Whelan is all he has at the moment.  Other than Grealish and McGinn, we have no other capable midfielder, not one.

No Plan B is a bit of a cop out though isn't it? Critical analysis of Smith's reign thus far should be welcomed. There are huge problems in the squad but how many of those Wigan players who make our team for example?
I'm wondering with his first two signings are we already preparing for next season. Hause in particular must be miles behind in terms of match fitness.

[ROBBO]

I was disappointed with Smiths substitutions on Saturday and that he failed to motivate the players at half time but my biggest worry is that if the pressure builds he will become more defensive. If he continues to play attacking football and sticks to his guns then he deserves to be backed.

[The Edge]

Give Smith a chance he has only been a few weeks - time to judge him will be from the start of next season (i don't think we will make the play off this season)

All we are saying  is give Smith a chance. 

[Toronto Villa]

The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

Lambert came with a reputation of playing good attacking football though, he had a football philosophy we thought we could buy into
he ended up becoming exactly the same as the other British dinosaurs

I just don't want Smith to go the same way, and the subs on Saturday were straight out of the Bruce/Lambert/Mcliesh book of tactics
it just worries me because we've been here before and I am buying into a new dawn and all that but the years of constant let downs have made me paranoid

There was a lot about what happened vs Wigan that caused great concern. Not least the subs. Good grief. For a manager who has promoted passing and pressure and attacking to throw on an untried, unfit CB and an aging dinosaur defensive midfielder to chase a game revealed to all of us he literally had run out of ideas. No different to TSM2 tossing on 200 strikers vs Bradford shouting charge as his tactical inspiration.

Right now Smith is being tactically outdone by opponents who know how abysmal we are at the back. We are being exposed and it is turning us into a team on the run not one that for a brief moment in time looked like dominating all comers.

[The Edge]

The difference between Bruce and Smith is for me is simple

we all know what Bruce does, he's had promotions and success but he does the same thing everywhere he goes, he will do exactly the same at Sheff Wed, same as Lambert, Pulis, Allardyce will do exactly the same wherever they happen to be
some people are happy with that, it's tried and tested, sometimes it works good enough to get promotion, sometimes it doesn't and becomes difficult to watch
there was never a point when I wanted Bruce out because I never wanted him in, I don't like the football he plays and never will, same goes for the other names mentioned above

with Smith we just don't know what will happen,we don't know what to expect,  we don't know if he can step up and bring his style of play and build a team to deliver success
so this brings hope
He might end up like most of the British type managers or he might end up like Eddie Howe, we just don't know yet

but that the difference
we knew what we were getting with Bruce we don't with Smith and that gives us the chance to hope for greater things and why we must keep backing him

I agree with almost all of that but to me it comes down to football philosophy

As much as we were utter turd against Wigan we all know he set us up to win the game - glaringly either the players did not listen to him or are incapable of maintaining acceptable performances due to them in the main being not very good but on occasion playing above themselves. Think when Taylor came back in we all said "At least he is in the right position" and to be fair his performances were more than adequate as he obviously wanted to prove himself. Soon as he was the regular LB he reverted to type and showed what an awfully below average footballer he is. I think we have a few that fit that category.

This will take some time and a lot of clearing out

Lambert came with a reputation of playing good attacking football though, he had a football philosophy we thought we could buy into
he ended up becoming exactly the same as the other British dinosaurs

I just don't want Smith to go the same way, and the subs on Saturday were straight out of the Bruce/Lambert/Mcliesh book of tactics
it just worries me because we've been here before and I am buying into a new dawn and all that but the years of constant let downs have made me paranoid

There was a lot about what happened vs Wigan that caused great concern. Not least the subs. Good grief. For a manager who has promoted passing and pressure and attacking to throw on an untried, unfit CB and an aging dinosaur defensive midfielder to chase a game revealed to all of us he literally had run out of ideas. No different to TSM2 tossing on 200 strikers vs Bradford shouting charge as his tactical inspiration.

Right now Smith is being tactically outdone by opponents who know how abysmal we are at the back. We are being exposed and it is turning us into a team on the run not one that for a brief moment in time looked like dominating all comers.

Is one way to look at it. The other way is it's got less to do Dean being tactically outdone and more to do with the quality of defenders he currently has at his disposal.

[brontebilly]

So, the manager has one defined style of play, and imposes this on players he knows are not capable of playing it? How's that likely to turn out?

Not only that. When we're losing, against a shit Wigan side, he decides to bring on the very player least likely to ever be able to play 'his way'?

And that's good management?

I call it not having a plan B.

Dean Smith has been brought in to make us a better and more attractive team to watch. To get us promoted asap playing an attractive brand of football. His style is to play attacking fluid football and we were all thrilled when we battered Derby, Middlesboro & WBA and who can forget the 5-5 v forest? Intoxicating stuff. He will plough on regardless until we have the team built in his image. He's implementing it come what may. Doubting him already and questioning whether he has a "plan b" is playing up to our "fickle" reputation. Admittedy mistakes are being made but I can forgive him as he is desperately trying to polish the turd of a squad that Steve Bruce left him with. The bigger picture is full houses at Villa Park watching us playing with style and panache and marching back into the Premier league. Rome wasn't built in a day though was it?

You mean a squad that Smith has said is the best he's managed.  Also a squad many of the Bruce haters were saying should be perofming better and that any manager would be able to get performing better.

Howcome now we are performing worse than we were under Bruce it's all Bruce left a shit squad etc... Which is the total opposite to what they were saying when Bruce was here.

What do you expect Dean Smith to say? Would you expect him to start his new job by slagging off the players? It's Brucies squad however you look at it. He left us with a shocking defence including 3 right backs, no centre half cover, a crap left back and poss poor cover in the goalkeeping position. An ageing midfield that includes a totally ineffective Hourihane and a geriatric pair in Whelan and Jedinack. So yeah I'd call that a turd of a squad that Bruce left us which Deano has had 3 fkn months to work with and half a transfer window to sort it.

Nice bit of history changing there but the main narrative when Bruce was in charge was that this was the best squad in the championship who any other club would love to have and that any manager would be able to get better performance and results out of.

You can deny it all you want but you know that is what was being said.

History changing? Which bit? Also when Bruce was in charge the squad included Johnson, Terry, Snodgrass and Grabban. That's not the squad he left us with. Without Johnson and Terry our defence is very poor by comparison and completely unbalanced which Bruce did NOTHING to rectify.

Bruce could certainly argue with justification that if the takeover had gone through earlier, Johnstone, Snodgrass and Grabban would have been resigned on permanent deals.

However, he made a catastrophic error of judgement going into the season with Jedinak, post a World Cup summer, as first choice left centre back. Purslow doesn't escape accountability for that either mind. The Bolasie and Abraham signings should never have been tolerated until a left centre back was brought in first. Bruce paid for that in the end with his job with a back five of Bunn and 3 right backs exposing his folly bare in that circus v Preston.

Belated efforts to bring in the French guy or McKenna from Aberdeen suggest an "oh fuck" moment was had too late in the day. Bruce had similar problems at Sunderland, like a kid in a sweet shop if given decent money.

Smith's first two signings suggest at least an effort has been made to correct chronic deficiencies in the squad with a far more physically dominant keeper and an allegedly pacy left centre back coming in.

[paul_e]

We've all, rightly, been very critical of managers who think that throwing strikers on is a suitable way to get back into a game because it disrupts the shape of the team and the play breaks down, we've seen that a number of times.  Smith went too far the other way on Saturday and focused entirely on keeping the shape and style as is but just swapping out some players at the back to get the ball moving faster.

Hopefully he's realised over the last few games that bringing on Whelan does nothing for us and realised that sometimes the right to do, with this squad, is to add another striker and start getting the ball into them quickly., Bolasie and El Ghazi were adding very little, both off for Adomah and Davis, going to a standard 442 (Thor out to the left) and getting the Ball in to davis and playing off him was the change to make, if nothing else it would've given our fullbacks a bit more protection.

[Ads]

Purslow didn't start until 1st September. How's he accountable?

[Pvb1968]

Christian Purslow is a big fish in a small pond at the moment, hopefully the pond will get bigger over time.

[Damo70]

It is quite simple for me. Bruce left a squad whose names on paper looked as strong as any in the division. Until you tried to pick a strong starting eleven from it. Then it was apparent how unbalanced the squad was. We were overloaded in midfield and could probably have picked two sets of midfielders who can do a job at this level but we were struggling when it came to picking a decent goalkeeper, a decent balanced defence and decent goalscorers. All Bruce's fault. But from the second they walked through the door the buck stopped with Smith, O'Kelly and Terry.

[Hookeysmith]

It is quite simple for me. Bruce left a squad whose names on paper looked as strong as any in the division. Until you tried to pick a strong starting eleven from it. Then it was apparent how unbalanced the squad was. We were overloaded in midfield and could probably have picked two sets of midfielders who can do a job at this level but we were struggling when it came to picking a decent goalkeeper, a decent balanced defence and decent goalscorers. All Bruce's fault. But from the second they walked through the door the buck stopped with Smith, O'Kelly and Terry.

Agree with all the Bruce bit but as far as Smith is concerned he needs to have at least the core of the team to be his own and that will take time. Bruce bought established players in the main to mask the lack of tactics and style of play and hoped for individual ability to generate the win. Smith's ethos is on the team work ethic, youthfulness and ability to play at a pace. Some players responded when he first came but their lack of ability or age means that they ran out of steam pretty quickly. Take out a central figure like Grealish and it is not surprising what has happened recently, deeply frustrating, but not surpising