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Author Topic: NSWE Investment  (Read 621810 times)

Offline FatSam

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1125 on: July 29, 2019, 05:14:12 PM »
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 05:46:23 PM by FatSam »

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1126 on: July 29, 2019, 05:53:51 PM »
I could live with filling in the corners joining the North Stand, and leaving the Holte End as an actual "end".

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1127 on: July 29, 2019, 05:56:06 PM »
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1128 on: July 29, 2019, 06:07:59 PM »
I reckon Charlton Heston at some point must have expressed an opinion that matches how I feel about spuds pulling off something that people reckon we couldn't.

Offline Pat McMahon

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1129 on: July 29, 2019, 06:11:47 PM »
I could live with filling in the corners joining the North Stand, and leaving the Holte End as an actual "end".

I don't know how feasible this is but that would be the first thing I would look at too. Viewed from the Holte, it is always striking how narrow the North Stand is - there is a considerable gap and loss of capacity in both corners.

I am sure we could find an architect capable of coming up with a couple of proposals..I'd also rename it the Witton End.

Offline Risso

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1130 on: July 29, 2019, 06:12:05 PM »
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

Offline boutrosboutrosgnarly

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1131 on: July 29, 2019, 06:13:32 PM »
Ideally would prefer to stay and expand the ground, or at a push (if viable) new ground where we are now.Sadly doubt the second option would ever come to fruition because of the restrictions locally.

Offline dave shelley

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1132 on: July 29, 2019, 06:20:23 PM »
I voted to leave it alone for five years.  There have been so many false dawns I prefer to wait and see what happens.  I'm aware that I may not be around to see how things pan-out in that time but, the club has to come first.  If we go ahead and go for a new stadium we would be like eggs in a biscuit tin if in the awful event we struggled and got relegated.

I would be heartbroken to see us leave Villa Park, I've spent sixty-odd years worshiping there but, I'm not naive enough not to realise it may have to happen, progress and all that; and if we do then surely it will be a sign that the Villa are once again a major force in English football.

Offline Rudy65

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1133 on: July 29, 2019, 06:23:00 PM »
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.

It would be a lot, lot cheaper to extend what we have rather than move

Offline Damo70

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1134 on: July 29, 2019, 06:28:07 PM »
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.



You make a good point regarding the Trinity. We got rid of our most iconic stand, we got rid of our famous standing home end (I know that wasn't necessarily through choice) and the Witton Lane stand and North stand are also both relatively new. If we knocked down Villa Park and totally rebuilt it like Spurs and White Hart Lane we wouldn't actually be losing any original stand.

Offline Damo70

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1135 on: July 29, 2019, 06:33:06 PM »
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to rip the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid on the arse if football grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me


The glaring mistake Middlesbrough made when moving stadiums was that they stayed in the shithole that is Middlesbrough.

Offline Ads

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1136 on: July 29, 2019, 06:36:06 PM »
I'm sure Man City fans are gutted the way their fortunes have changed.

That said, they've not moved into a football stadium, they've into a converted athletics stadium, the same as West Ham and you can tell.

A new ground doesn't have to be a soulless bowl.

Offline Drummond

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1137 on: July 29, 2019, 06:46:38 PM »
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1138 on: July 29, 2019, 07:01:14 PM »
I don't see how we can do anything substantial with the ground as it's oriented. You can't "just" fill in the corners. You can't raise the Doug. The Trinity's built over a road as it is. And that's the two sides which dictate where the ends go. We have to move the pitch.

Offline Percy McCarthy

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1139 on: July 29, 2019, 07:07:11 PM »
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Did all the London clubs used to get bigger crowds than us when neither they nor us were filled to capacity?

 


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