Quote from: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:21:55 PMQuote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.I think you have missed the point.
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
I can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
I can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.After all that you could end up with a plot like this:The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-connThis is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.
Quote from: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 09:45:59 PMQuote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations wont become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.After all that you could end up with a plot like this:The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-connThis is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.
Quote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations wont become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.After all that you could end up with a plot like this:The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-connThis is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.
I can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations wont become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.
Quote from: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 09:22:06 PMQuote from: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PMI can not separate the Club from the Location.I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr? Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb its cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust whats already there.Demolition costs for one thing. Hes got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.
Quote from: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 10:14:03 PMConstruction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.He's right. You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.