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Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 40250 times)

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #600 on: September 25, 2018, 09:16:26 AM »
Is it legally enforceable for them to set the punishments for breaking the rules after the rules have been broken. As far as I'm aware the actual punishments are pretty hazy and more of a general threat but no specifics. A sliding scale of punishment for losses which may be 2/3years old which were accrued before the actual punishments were known... it sounds like a legal minefield to me. As much as I'd find it hilarious to see the Rags get a points deduction, the league couldn't even enforce their own transfer embargo.


Offline Mister E

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #601 on: September 25, 2018, 09:56:45 AM »
The FFP rules are an absolute joke. The very clubs who created this like Man City and Chelsea have flouted the rules for years and haven't received a single point deduction.  Even Bournemouth have broke the rules twice and just received fines only. The hounding of Championship clubs is totally unfair. FFP actually protects the top sides, ridiculous!

FFP has worked in the Championship as it was introduced to prevent the amount of clubs going into administration due to spending way more than their income. The problem was to apply the same regulations to the Premier League, where a different problem occurs.
Platini was keen to get FFP off the ground in order to prevent more Chelseas and Citehs - other European clubs do not want the sudden emergence of English teams via a massive injection of money way beyond their ‘normal’ revenue norms.
The problem for teams below the Prem is that FFP reduces the likelihood of the ‘white knight’ investor for clubs in financial dire straits. And, the Championship is a far easier place politically to impose strict rules than the Prem.

Offline Stan Drew 01

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #602 on: September 25, 2018, 10:07:33 AM »
Opposition to FFP is something that should unite all EFL fans.

In the dim and distant past when I studied a bit of Law we learnt, as a general principle, that no Laws were made with retrospective effect. The very good principle behind this is that no-one should be punished for an action that was legal at the time it was carried out. It seems to me that this is precisely what the EFL are doing with their persistent after the event changing and tinkering with the, so called, FFP regulations. Also some would argue that the proposed restrictions and punishments amount to a restraint of trade.

But the real issue with so called FFP is that it will actually result in producing UNFAIR competition on the pitch. BCFC are already under a transfer embargo and bizarrely it seems the EFL can even dictate what wages the club can pay to free agents. Not to mention rumoured points deductions! Recent press reports suggest Villa could face similar sanctions if they don’t go up this year.

So Cardiff City, who are shit, will probably get relegated this season but why should they care? They’ll come down with their pockets stuffed with a £100+ millions parachute payment whilst Blues and Villa will have their hands tied behind their backs, unable to compete in the transfer market. It will be hugely frustrating if you have plenty of money but are prevented from spending it by an arbitrary, one size fits all FFP policy! (not that we’ve got any money)

In a very short period, probably no more than 5 years, the majority of Premier League clubs will be pretty much cemented permanently in place while a handful of clubs will yo yo between the Premier and the Championship.

It’s hard to say what can be done but unless it’s done very soon it will be too late and our game will be changed for ever. Maybe a one-day strike when as many fans as can be persuaded stay away from all Championship games. I know only a small proportion of club’s income comes from gate money but the big selling point about English football is the atmosphere generated by the fans. Also watch Strictly Come Dancing instead of EFL Championship on TV, that will piss off both the TV companies and their advertisers. And don’t just stay away go and see Solihull Moors, Pelsall Villa etc etc.

KRO





Offline Risso

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #603 on: September 25, 2018, 10:53:44 AM »
You're right about FFP.  The thing is, they could with a bit of thought come up with a way of having that financial stability without making the leagues less competitive.  It's hardly "Fair Play" when certain clubs can spend what they like.  I get that they don't want lower league clubs going out of business, but that could be achieved by actually doing some proper due diligence on oweners, and putting in liquidity requirements.  So, they introduce a rule where owners can spend what they like and predict a loss of say, £20m a year, but they have to put that amount in a bond, so that if they pull out, there's money there for the club to continue in existence.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #604 on: September 25, 2018, 11:20:18 AM »
Love how the noses all hate FFP now that it's bitten them in the arse with likelihood of a bumming from it as seconds some time soon after spending all summer fantasizing about it and it's imaginary effects on us.

Online Ad@m

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #605 on: September 25, 2018, 12:33:58 PM »
Why should a club the size of the us be expected to bear the same losses as a club the size of QPR, whose ground is a tad bigger than the Holte End?

You're talking about revenue there.  Think of it another way, FFP allows you to spend your revenue plus the allowable losses.  If your revenue is higher, you can spend more.  Hence why it favours the already wealthy clubs.

Online paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #606 on: September 25, 2018, 01:14:00 PM »
My biggest issue with points deductions as a punishment is that, for me, they run against the supposed purpose of FFP. If we take it that the idea is to stop clubs going to the wall then how would potentially relegating a club over mistakes made 2-3 years earlier help them?  The drop in income from championship to league 1 isn't on the same scale as dropping from the premier league but it's still a significant drop. For a club that has been expecting to finish midtable that's a big hit.

Move on to Villa how does denying us promotion (if we get there) because we overspent after our relegation prove anything?  I'm all for there being rules but this one doesn't promote fairness.  I'd go with something like every penny over the limit you go you have to put the same into a lottery style fund which is used to develop training facilities, provide training for coaches, etc at the smaller clubs giving them a chance of bringing through more quality themselves and naturally improving (and thus raising standards across the league). The message then becomes that if you want to 'buy' the title you can but you have to contribute back into the league for doing it. It doesn't stop clubs doing what Leicester, Bournemouth and QPR have done but it gives them a big end of season bill to pay and it helps keep the depth of the leagues in place.


There's probably plenty of problems with this, it's practically a 'back of a fag packet' solution but it does much more to address the problems in the game than points deductions.

Offline exigo

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #607 on: September 26, 2018, 01:24:39 PM »
I'm convinced that Jack's release clause is an integral part of us getting around FFP. Because, in essence, we have increased one particular asset's value from £35m to £60m – the equivalent of an extra £25m income. I'm sure someone who knows more about accounting regulations will be along shortly to burst that bubble.

Online chrisw1

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #608 on: September 26, 2018, 02:19:46 PM »
I'm convinced that Jack's release clause is an integral part of us getting around FFP. Because, in essence, we have increased one particular asset's value from £35m to £60m – the equivalent of an extra £25m income. I'm sure someone who knows more about accounting regulations will be along shortly to burst that bubble.
Nope.  ignoring that your quoted prices are crazy, I think FFP is based on actual revenue not book values.

Online paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #609 on: September 26, 2018, 02:33:11 PM »
I'm convinced that Jack's release clause is an integral part of us getting around FFP. Because, in essence, we have increased one particular asset's value from £35m to £60m – the equivalent of an extra £25m income. I'm sure someone who knows more about accounting regulations will be along shortly to burst that bubble.
Nope.  ignoring that your quoted prices are crazy, I think FFP is based on actual revenue not book values.

It's both signings are all about their book value. The issue is a release clause is no guarantee of anything so Grealish has no book value.

Offline Risso

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #610 on: September 26, 2018, 09:57:20 PM »
Players you buy from another club - the purchase price goes into the accounts, and is then amortised over the length of the contract.  A £10m signing on a four year contract will be worth £5m after two years.  If you then sell him for £12m, you'd make a £7m profit.  If he leaves on a free transfer, it's a £5m loss.

Youth team players - there's never any value in the accounts, even if they sign a new contract or have a release clause.  You only make a profit when you sell them, so at any point, whatever you sell them for, eg if it's Jack for £30m, then £30m is the profit.  If there's a release clause, the profit is only realised if a club matches that valuation and pays that for him.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #611 on: September 26, 2018, 10:32:28 PM »
Players you buy from another club - the purchase price goes into the accounts, and is then amortised over the length of the contract.  A £10m signing on a four year contract will be worth £5m after two years.  If you then sell him for £12m, you'd make a £7m profit.  If he leaves on a free transfer, it's a £5m loss.

Youth team players - there's never any value in the accounts, even if they sign a new contract or have a release clause.  You only make a profit when you sell them, so at any point, whatever you sell them for, eg if it's Jack for £30m, then £30m is the profit.  If there's a release clause, the profit is only realised if a club matches that valuation and pays that for him.

Which shows why the system is shit. Teams have to sell their prized assets to stay afloat, rather than growing them and growing a team.

It's plain to see that Grealish is worth so much more than nothing.

Online andyh

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #612 on: September 26, 2018, 10:35:00 PM »
I'm convinced that Jack's release clause is an integral part of us getting around FFP. Because, in essence, we have increased one particular asset's value from £35m to £60m – the equivalent of an extra £25m income. I'm sure someone who knows more about accounting regulations will be along shortly to burst that bubble.
Nope.  ignoring that your quoted prices are crazy, I think FFP is based on actual revenue not book values.
If it were that easy to get round FFP, we could just revalue Richards at £10m, Hutton at £30m and Mcginniesta at £100m

Online Ad@m

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #613 on: September 26, 2018, 10:38:51 PM »
It's plain to see that Grealish is worth so much more than nothing.

Accounting rules for footballers have nothing to do with reflecting their "value" as it's such a subjective matter. Instead all you do is spread the cost of their registration over the length of their contact. Hence why youth team players carry no value on the balance sheet, as their was no cost in their registration.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #614 on: September 26, 2018, 10:41:12 PM »
All clubs don't have to, just the ones that have been run badly. Like us.

While the FFP system isn't perfect, it's better than no FFP. From 2008-2013, 20 clubs from the Conference North/South level upwards went into administration, 12 were league clubs, since 2013 I don't think any have.