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Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 93678 times)

Offline paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #870 on: March 27, 2019, 11:32:47 AM »


Only caught the last 40 minutes of the WM thing tonight. Just as well as my heads still aching now.

From what i gather, if we don't get promoted then we're really got to sell Jack to balance the books. If we don't go up i'd expect that to happen anyway obviously. The problem then is, who do we sell to balance the books the next summer if we still aren't promoted ?
Yes that was insightful stuff on WM. Lots of people on here slate the station,  but that was a good listen this evening. The guy they had on,  Kieran Maguire,  was very knowledgeable.

Blues were spending nearly twice as much as they were bringing in, and Wolves would have been in trouble had they not been promoted. They lost far more than anyone last season but apparently promotion bonuses aren't included in any calculation. Also an interesting article on Redknapp in the Observer yesterday.

We were so close to liquidation in the summer, that the criticism Bruce gets about leaving the squad in a parlous state now seems quite harsh.

We may need to get creative ourselves in the summer if we don't go up or inevitably we'll sell Jack and maybe McGinn.

Bruce was a major contributor to us being in the shit.

So was O'Neill, how far we gonna go back into our repertoire of making awful business decisions ?

It's been one bad decision after another for god knows how long now.

The current situation falls on 6 people to varying degrees, Lerner and Sherwood for making a fucking mess of the summer before relegation, Wyness, Xia and RDM for signings like McCormack in the first summer down and Bruce for adding to that with the likes of Hogan, Lansbury, Bjarnason (who cost a fair bit, are on big wages and never play) and some incredibly expensive loans.

Offline VikingWarrior

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #871 on: March 27, 2019, 11:39:34 AM »
I know he is everywhere, but I think this column from Kieran Maguire is a really interesting read: Villa saved by the train?
https://offthepitch.com/a/villa-saved-train

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall but they offer 30-day free trial and if you also like to read about Football Finance and the industry, it seems like a good site. Only been a subscriber for a few days so please don't take me up on it, if you think it is bullshit.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #872 on: March 27, 2019, 11:56:58 AM »
I know he is everywhere, but I think this column from Kieran Maguire is a really interesting read: Villa saved by the train?
https://offthepitch.com/a/villa-saved-train

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall but they offer 30-day free trial and if you also like to read about Football Finance and the industry, it seems like a good site. Only been a subscriber for a few days so please don't take me up on it, if you think it is bullshit.

If they/you would like to advertise we can always discuss rates.

Offline Damo70

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  • Posts: 21543
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #873 on: March 27, 2019, 12:31:09 PM »
An interesting article on the BBC internet sport.

Blackburn, Bolton and Birmingham: Seven charts showing how Championship clubs reached this point

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47691385

Thanks for that, B23. Quite interesting. Kieran Maguire seems to know a thing or two about a thing or two on the issue.


I was surprised to see Cardiff so high up the list. I thought they had achieved promotion by spending relatively little money. As for Small Heath, whatever we say about Carson they appeared to be relatively financially stable under him. I do remember when they went down they sold off a number of high earners and didn't spend much to replace them under Hughton. It all went very wrong very quickly when Trillion Trophies and Triffic Harry started spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

Offline VikingWarrior

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  • Posts: 2
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #874 on: March 27, 2019, 12:42:52 PM »
I know he is everywhere, but I think this column from Kieran Maguire is a really interesting read: Villa saved by the train?
https://offthepitch.com/a/villa-saved-train

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall but they offer 30-day free trial and if you also like to read about Football Finance and the industry, it seems like a good site. Only been a subscriber for a few days so please don't take me up on it, if you think it is bullshit.

If they/you would like to advertise we can always discuss rates.

Sorry. Did not mean to advertise. Just thought it could be interesting for other Villa fan to read - like the BBC-url two or three replies above. Please let me know what I did wrong so I don't do it again.

Offline GordonCowansisthegreatest

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #875 on: March 27, 2019, 02:25:12 PM »
Can some one copy and paste the article? Then we can all have a read.

Offline VinnieChase84

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  • Posts: 2190
  • GM : May, 2012
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #876 on: March 27, 2019, 02:31:53 PM »
75k a week on Bolasie. Absolutely criminal. From near liquidation to criminal masterclass. 

Bruce was SOLELY in charge of transfers/contracts at that point

Offline Newby

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #877 on: March 27, 2019, 10:14:16 PM »
75k a week on Bolasie. Absolutely criminal. From near liquidation to criminal masterclass. 

Bruce was SOLELY in charge of transfers/contracts at that point

Yes, my point exactly. Criminal, and yet some think blaming Bruce is harsh!

Offline eamonn

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #878 on: March 27, 2019, 10:30:56 PM »
If Steve was paying out of his own piggy bank fair enough like.

Offline mike

  • Member
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #879 on: March 28, 2019, 02:51:25 PM »


Only caught the last 40 minutes of the WM thing tonight. Just as well as my heads still aching now.

From what i gather, if we don't get promoted then we're really got to sell Jack to balance the books. If we don't go up i'd expect that to happen anyway obviously. The problem then is, who do we sell to balance the books the next summer if we still aren't promoted ?
Yes that was insightful stuff on WM. Lots of people on here slate the station,  but that was a good listen this evening. The guy they had on,  Kieran Maguire,  was very knowledgeable.

Blues were spending nearly twice as much as they were bringing in, and Wolves would have been in trouble had they not been promoted. They lost far more than anyone last season but apparently promotion bonuses aren't included in any calculation. Also an interesting article on Redknapp in the Observer yesterday.

We were so close to liquidation in the summer, that the criticism Bruce gets about leaving the squad in a parlous state now seems quite harsh.

We may need to get creative ourselves in the summer if we don't go up or inevitably we'll sell Jack and maybe McGinn.

Bruce was a major contributor to us being in the shit.

So was O'Neill, how far we gonna go back into our repertoire of making awful business decisions ?

It's been one bad decision after another for god knows how long now.

The current situation falls on 6 people to varying degrees, Lerner and Sherwood for making a fucking mess of the summer before relegation, Wyness, Xia and RDM for signings like McCormack in the first summer down and Bruce for adding to that with the likes of Hogan, Lansbury, Bjarnason (who cost a fair bit, are on big wages and never play) and some incredibly expensive loans.

But all of that was set in motion the day that O'Neill cynically walked out at the worst possible time having been naively trusted by Lerner to the point that there was no-one at the club who could steady the ship.

Offline ChicagoLion

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  • Posts: 7715
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #880 on: March 28, 2019, 02:54:37 PM »


Only caught the last 40 minutes of the WM thing tonight. Just as well as my heads still aching now.

From what i gather, if we don't get promoted then we're really got to sell Jack to balance the books. If we don't go up i'd expect that to happen anyway obviously. The problem then is, who do we sell to balance the books the next summer if we still aren't promoted ?
Yes that was insightful stuff on WM. Lots of people on here slate the station,  but that was a good listen this evening. The guy they had on,  Kieran Maguire,  was very knowledgeable.

Blues were spending nearly twice as much as they were bringing in, and Wolves would have been in trouble had they not been promoted. They lost far more than anyone last season but apparently promotion bonuses aren't included in any calculation. Also an interesting article on Redknapp in the Observer yesterday.

We were so close to liquidation in the summer, that the criticism Bruce gets about leaving the squad in a parlous state now seems quite harsh.

We may need to get creative ourselves in the summer if we don't go up or inevitably we'll sell Jack and maybe McGinn.

Bruce was a major contributor to us being in the shit.

So was O'Neill, how far we gonna go back into our repertoire of making awful business decisions ?

It's been one bad decision after another for god knows how long now.

The current situation falls on 6 people to varying degrees, Lerner and Sherwood for making a fucking mess of the summer before relegation, Wyness, Xia and RDM for signings like McCormack in the first summer down and Bruce for adding to that with the likes of Hogan, Lansbury, Bjarnason (who cost a fair bit, are on big wages and never play) and some incredibly expensive loans.

But all of that was set in motion the day that O'Neill cynically walked out at the worst possible time having been naively trusted by Lerner to the point that there was no-one at the club who could steady the ship.
Yes,you can argue that.
But it does not forgive those that came after and fucked up and that includes Bruce.

Offline mike

  • Member
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #881 on: March 28, 2019, 11:15:07 PM »


Only caught the last 40 minutes of the WM thing tonight. Just as well as my heads still aching now.

From what i gather, if we don't get promoted then we're really got to sell Jack to balance the books. If we don't go up i'd expect that to happen anyway obviously. The problem then is, who do we sell to balance the books the next summer if we still aren't promoted ?
Yes that was insightful stuff on WM. Lots of people on here slate the station,  but that was a good listen this evening. The guy they had on,  Kieran Maguire,  was very knowledgeable.

Blues were spending nearly twice as much as they were bringing in, and Wolves would have been in trouble had they not been promoted. They lost far more than anyone last season but apparently promotion bonuses aren't included in any calculation. Also an interesting article on Redknapp in the Observer yesterday.

We were so close to liquidation in the summer, that the criticism Bruce gets about leaving the squad in a parlous state now seems quite harsh.

We may need to get creative ourselves in the summer if we don't go up or inevitably we'll sell Jack and maybe McGinn.

Bruce was a major contributor to us being in the shit.

So was O'Neill, how far we gonna go back into our repertoire of making awful business decisions ?

It's been one bad decision after another for god knows how long now.

The current situation falls on 6 people to varying degrees, Lerner and Sherwood for making a fucking mess of the summer before relegation, Wyness, Xia and RDM for signings like McCormack in the first summer down and Bruce for adding to that with the likes of Hogan, Lansbury, Bjarnason (who cost a fair bit, are on big wages and never play) and some incredibly expensive loans.

But all of that was set in motion the day that O'Neill cynically walked out at the worst possible time having been naively trusted by Lerner to the point that there was no-one at the club who could steady the ship.
Yes,you can argue that.
But it does not forgive those that came after and fucked up and that includes Bruce.

I donít disagree itís just that OíNeill is not on the list of people Paul names as responsible and he should be. Bruce was the second most brainless appointment after McLeish.

Offline paul_e

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  • Posts: 18761
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Back from the frozen North
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #882 on: March 29, 2019, 10:12:10 AM »
I donít disagree itís just that OíNeill is not on the list of people Paul names as responsible and he should be. Bruce was the second most brainless appointment after McLeish.

Not on that list. MoN leaving in the way he did after spending the way he had was a massive problem but by the time Sherwood was bringing in Gestede to replace Benteke and making Richards his captain we'd had 5 years to recover from that.

The relegation came about because we had 2 different transfer strategies running at the same time that summer which meant we made more signings than we should've and we split the squad in 2, with a manager who did nothing to fix that split and instead decided to use it as an excuse for his own failings.

The imbalance it left in the squad meant that when Xia, Wyness and RDM came in the following summer they repeated the mistake, signing too many players and not really having a proper plan of how to fit them together and integrate them into the existing squad. The lack of familiarity in the squad leading to RDM being sacked within a couple of months.

Then we get to Bruce who got initial results by simplifying things down to the most basic tactics possible before he falling into the exact same trap and signing players without a plan for 3 windows out of 4. The only window that didn't cause us problems was January last season where the financial position meant that all he could do was get Grabban on loan.

All of those things put us in a position of having a squad with a handful of players we could sell for a profit which had too many players in some positions and not enough in others and that was costing us premier league level wages despite us having a significantly smaller income.

MON, McLeish, Lambert and plenty of others got us to the point where this started but the 3 seasons up until this summer is the worst the club has been run in my time and put us on a clear path to oblivion.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #883 on: March 29, 2019, 11:13:42 AM »
Our whole business model has been wrong since coming down.

2016 we just bet the house on promotion when our squad still had losing mentality which was a bizarre policy.

Signing likes of McCormack and Kodjia when we still had likes of Bacuna and Richards not just on our books but actually starting games, didn't get it at all.

Would've been better to just use 16-17 as a transitional season and weed out the misfits in the squad which we eventually had to do given how poor we started.

We essentially spent 50m to finish 11th or12th so laughably bad management.

17-18 was better as we just signed free transfers and loans, trouble was majority were over 30 so again we don't go up we run into trouble.

At least with the people we have in top jobs now we can get past this mentality we just have to sign premier league players who cost a fortune. Tammy has been good of course but then we have Bolasie.

Let's find some gems from elsewhere, McGinn has been good after all and hopefully the French RB will be a great pick up. If we'd had that mentality in summer 2016 I reckon we'd be out of this league by now and FFP would be an afterthought as it is for Wolves.

Offline ChicagoLion

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  • Posts: 7715
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #884 on: March 30, 2019, 01:23:51 PM »
Agre, I allways thought that the first season down was more about affording the clear out than bringing players in.
We continued to try to buy our way out of trouble.