Time to Rebuild?

[Dougs Socks]

All teams are in some sort of rebuild or evolvement, it a constant thing, so i tend to hate the phrase. However, in our case, the one constant factor over the last 6 years or so, is our lack of astuteness when purchasing players, and our so called scouting skills. This is the basic necessity that any top tier club has in place. Its an area where we need to invest heavily in, since its been consistently cut back under the Lerner years, and does not seemed to have been improved under our current regime, judging by our purchases.

This is should be our priority.

[Nunkin1965]

The legacy of all of this directionless mess is player numbers and really bad player purchases. Our first team squad is way too big. Which is a problem.
Even with our injuries, game time for our younger players is strictly limited as half of the U23 team is full of first team squad members (!).

And why isn’t Callum O’Hare being given a opportunity to play? He’d get into most Championship sides easily.

I thought Bruce was the right choice but I’m now questioning my judgment after yet another poor, poor showing on the road.

[kippaxvilla2]

The legacy of all of this directionless mess is player numbers and really bad player purchases. Our first team squad is way too big. Which is a problem.
Even with our injuries, game time for our younger players is strictly limited as half of the U23 team is full of first team squad members (!).

And why isn’t Callum O’Hare being given a opportunity to play? He’d get into most Championship sides easily.

I thought Bruce was the right choice but I’m now questioning my judgment after yet another poor, poor showing on the road.

Not giving the likes of O’Hare a chance is exactly why dinosaurs like Bruce aren’t the answer long term.  Someone like Smith would see that.  Instead we get two lumbering lumberjacks with about as much movement as Barry Austin in the middle.

[eddiemunster]

The following was posted on Villa Talk;

The list being the majority of our squad that will be left after contract expirys and loans ending will look something like:
                        Steer, Gollini
De Laet, Bree, Elmohammady, Chester, Elphick, Green, Taylor.
Adomah, Thishbola, Lansbury, Jedinak, Whelen, Lyden, Grealish, Hourihane, Gardner, Bjarnasson, 
Hogan, McCormack, Davis
 
That is the squad we would be left with come June 2018 if we where promoted. Scary!

Surely this would feel like a lottery win for the club, if thats all that was left come June 2018 !!!

[Steve67]

We couldn't possibly rebuild under Steve Bruce as he believes in experience over youth.  We can't rebuild now unless there is an admission from the club that we aren't that bothered about promotion.  We simply need to go up, get in a proper manager to oversee the first team and then look to the DoF to do the behind the scenes rebuilding. The new manager would need to be someone who regularly included the kids on the bench for any games, not just meaningless cup games.  I have always felt that the first team is the most important thing, get that right and everything else falls in to place.  If your first team is right, the incoming kids learn from them.  It is fair to suggest that there aren't too many of the under 23's who have got in to the side and thrived, therefore, there must be something wrong with the first team set up. 

[kippaxvilla2]

The following was posted on Villa Talk;

The list being the majority of our squad that will be left after contract expirys and loans ending will look something like:
                        Steer, Gollini
De Laet, Bree, Elmohammady, Chester, Elphick, Green, Taylor.
Adomah, Thishbola, Lansbury, Jedinak, Whelen, Lyden, Grealish, Hourihane, Gardner, Bjarnasson, 
Hogan, McCormack, Davis
 
That is the squad we would be left with come June 2018 if we where promoted. Scary!

Surely this would feel like a lottery win for the club, if thats all that was left come June 2018 !!!

Richards is still contracted until June 2019.

[Steve67]

Jeez, Kippax, you know how to cheer a man up!! 2019 eh? Another huge bundle of money wasted. What an absolute thief Richards is.  Disgraceful.

[Jimbo]

We were certainly in danger of slipping all the way down after relegation, such was the almighty mess we were in. We're still in a mess, of course, and one of our biggest failings (aside from all the complacency, misplaced arrogance and cloying comforts of VP and BMH) has been sheer stupidity. It seems baked into the concrete at Villa Park. Nobody has been able to stop us mid-blunder and say, hang on a minute, we've got this all wrong. We really have to ask ourselves how, time after time after time, we turn seemingly good players into shit ones.

For all his faults Steve Bruce has arrested the slide into oblivion. We are stable. But he simply doesn't have the intelligence, imagination or ability to get this lurching, lost institution back into the PL. That's obvious now.

We need to thank Bruce for his efforts after the next disappointing result (Saturday) and appoint a manager with a brain, the self-confidence and the ability to build a club ethos from the ground up. And us fans are going to have to accept at least another year or two in this shit league. I'm not sure either is going to happen, and so I expect the Championship to be our home for the foreseeable.

[ChicagoLion]

The problem starts with is not taking the chance when the New Money and New Regime came in.
That meant taking the hit on the squad there and then, we failed, we tried to get half pregnant.
When reorganising there are general rules, cut deeper than you think you need to.
Throw all of the losses at the balance sheet in the first year and build from there.
The first cut should be the deepest you do not want to have to go back and do it again.
The Bruce era has spread another layer of crap on the shit sandwich.

[eamonn]

Why isn't Kodjia in that squad. He'll be in contract for two more years I assume, after this one.

[garyfouroaks]

No-one can argue that as a club we have not lost our way. Our league status and position is proof positive.

I think that the idea that any manager can be appointed to create a dynasty is a myth. Wenger and Ferguson are the exceptions, and that situation unfolded, it was not planned. West Ham are probably the best example of a club built on strong foundations up to 1989, up to then  they had only had five managers in almost 90 years. The evidence that it was a recipe for success is mixed.

With player contracts an average of three years and average managerial lifespan half that it I the Boardroom management team that counts, and we are still well light on talent there.

I am still behind Bruce. He pulled us out of our third tier bound tailspin, and we are in the mix for promotion in a pretty mediocre promotion chasing bunch. I said on appointment that he should be given three years. I stand by that. There comes a point when managerial change, not the manager, is the problem, and we had reached that point.

Rebuild? We are always rebuilding. What we need is someone who is capable of making the most out of what we have at any given time.

[class-of-82]

rebuild ??
I would start with the north stand never liked it

[tomd2103]

No-one can argue that as a club we have not lost our way. Our league status and position is proof positive.

I think that the idea that any manager can be appointed to create a dynasty is a myth. Wenger and Ferguson are the exceptions, and that situation unfolded, it was not planned. West Ham are probably the best example of a club built on strong foundations up to 1989, up to then  they had only had five managers in almost 90 years. The evidence that it was a recipe for success is mixed.

With player contracts an average of three years and average managerial lifespan half that it I the Boardroom management team that counts, and we are still well light on talent there.

I am still behind Bruce. He pulled us out of our third tier bound tailspin, and we are in the mix for promotion in a pretty mediocre promotion chasing bunch. I said on appointment that he should be given three years. I stand by that. There comes a point when managerial change, not the manager, is the problem, and we had reached that point.

Rebuild? We are always rebuilding. What we need is someone who is capable of making the most out of what we have at any given time.

Agree on your point about managers, particularly as they have such a short employment span these days.  That's why creating a 'dynasty' has to come from above that level and from someone like a Director of Football.  They are now the ones who have put the structure in place and hire managers and identify players who will fit into that structure.  Other clubs have done it, yet it is something we haven't done at all.

[eddiemunster]

Agree on your point about managers, particularly as they have such a short employment span these days.  That's why creating a 'dynasty' has to come from above that level and from someone like a Director of Football.  They are now the ones who have put the structure in place and hire managers and identify players who will fit into that structure.  Other clubs have done it, yet it is something we haven't done at all.

Sorry mate but, if we are to create a "dynasty",then it starts from the ground up, not the other way round. The last time we tried was when a certain Mr Vic Crowe put into place a youth system, that the present manager has largely ignored until forced to.
We need to look at our coaching and scouting systems, and have a root and branch clear-out if necessary.

[PeterWithesShin]

It's definitely created from above imo. You hire a manager to implement your plan, you and him hire coaches along the same lines, you buy players to play that way. When the manager leaves you hire another manager to carry on the work and so on. Where we fail is that every time we hire a manager they want a new team and there's no continuity and the whole club is starting from scratch again.