Time to Rebuild?

[kippaxvilla2]

For too many years now we have employed managers for short term fix aims.  Whether it be to simply survive in the PL or employing the latest cliched experienced at this level so called promotion specialist. 

I’m coming to the view that we should look at the long term now.  Bring someone in that can create a proper footballing philosophy and only bring in players that will fit round that not the other way round.  This also means that we should be using these players alongside the young talent at our disposal.  I’m not saying ditch promotion if that comes as part of this quickly then great. 

Step forward Dean Smith.  Give the bloke proper time if not the same monetary resources and allow him to build something.  Last time we did this it worked with a certain Saunders bloke.

[sirlordbaltimore]

We should've gone down the rebuild from top to bottom route the moment we got relegated.

That said, none of us were moaning when we spent big. The absolute desperation to get back up straight away has left us years off actually achieving it IMHO.

Putting a solid structure and playing style in place and seeing it through how ever long it took would've been far wiser than attempting a quick patch up job on a completely broken club.

IMHO at least

[old man villa fan]

I said my piece on 'Bruce Out' but totally agree.  I still believe a foreign coach is the best option as building a style of play is their bread and butter.

[tomd2103]

I agree with the general train of thought, but think if we don't go up in the summer then it is the time to be looking at that kind of approach.  We still have a decent chance of going up this season if we can get the current squad performing and add a few decent signings next month.  Whether Bruce is the man to do that is highly questionable. 

[paul_e]

We should've gone down the rebuild from top to bottom route the moment we got relegated.

That said, none of us were moaning when we spent big. The absolute desperation to get back up straight away has left us years off actually achieving it IMHO.

Putting a solid structure and playing style in place and seeing it through how ever long it took would've been far wiser than attempting a quick patch up job on a completely broken club.

IMHO at least

I think RDM actually did start going in the right direction, he just under-estimated how big the job was and got his choices wrong in the centre of midfield.  The real mistake was to move away from that so quickly to someone who wanted to do the same things that Lambert, etc had been doing for a few years before we were relegated.  The desperation that led to Bruce is what fucked us up.  It's not even about what I think of Bruce, it's that he's from the school of thought that saw us signing people like Richardson, Richards, Cole, Lescott, etc and that was at the heart of our fall.

[TheMalandro]

I'd happily see Dean Smith replace Bruce.

The sentiment of a long term manager is a nice one, but I don't think it's the reality of football.

Clubs just need to hire a good one. If they succeed, expect them to move on.

We've not managed to hire one since Martin O'Neill, although, I guess it could be said he started this.

[old man villa fan]

I'd happily see Dean Smith replace Bruce.

The sentiment of a long term manager is a nice one, but I don't think it's the reality of football.

Clubs just need to hire a good one. If they succeed, expect them to move on.

We've not managed to hire one since Martin O'Neill, although, I guess it could be said he started this.

That is why you need the Club to dictate the philosophy and appoint a succession of coaches/managers that deliver on it. Otherwise you end up spending an absolute fortune on players.

[sickbeggar]

I was all for that process under RDM so bring it on i say. If we can put up with a season or so of crap or indifferent results, then do it if the end result is a proper long term strategy. I've always felt we've overestimated the players in our squad and unfortunately that led to unrealistic expectations. Under Houllier it was "we finished in the top 6 last season", then it was "we're a decent mid-table team" when we were flirting with relegation, then it was "this squad should walk the championship" after we came down. End of the day with a few exceptions we've sold our best players and bought worse replacements for them for donkey's years and that's what has got to change. Looking at the current squad, a decent manager shouldn't find that too hard to do.

[tomd2103]

We should've gone down the rebuild from top to bottom route the moment we got relegated.

That said, none of us were moaning when we spent big. The absolute desperation to get back up straight away has left us years off actually achieving it IMHO.

Putting a solid structure and playing style in place and seeing it through how ever long it took would've been far wiser than attempting a quick patch up job on a completely broken club.

IMHO at least

I think RDM actually did start going in the right direction, he just under-estimated how big the job was and got his choices wrong in the centre of midfield.  The real mistake was to move away from that so quickly to someone who wanted to do the same things that Lambert, etc had been doing for a few years before we were relegated.  The desperation that led to Bruce is what fucked us up.  It's not even about what I think of Bruce, it's that he's from the school of thought that saw us signing people like Richardson, Richards, Cole, Lescott, etc and that was at the heart of our fall.

Not sure about that Paul when you look at the signings RDM made.  I think the ethos was to sign proven players at that level to try and get us straight back up and that was understandable at the time.  Bruce has followed that philosophy and if we don't make it up this season it will be time for a total re-think.

[eddiemunster]

When we were relegated, I commented that we needed a clear out of "biblical enema" proportions, and was ridiculed by some who continue to wear "claret and blue" tinted glasses. We had six years of abject dross before we finally fell through the trapdoor into the Championship. We are now 1/3 of the way through what is looking like the same. Not only do we need to get rid of a load of old, slow, overpaid, "experienced" players, we need to clear out BH and start again, a la Vic Crowe, and DO IT NOW!!

[Toronto Villa]

We should've gone down the rebuild from top to bottom route the moment we got relegated.

That said, none of us were moaning when we spent big. The absolute desperation to get back up straight away has left us years off actually achieving it IMHO.

Putting a solid structure and playing style in place and seeing it through how ever long it took would've been far wiser than attempting a quick patch up job on a completely broken club.

IMHO at least

I think RDM actually did start going in the right direction, he just under-estimated how big the job was and got his choices wrong in the centre of midfield.  The real mistake was to move away from that so quickly to someone who wanted to do the same things that Lambert, etc had been doing for a few years before we were relegated.  The desperation that led to Bruce is what fucked us up.  It's not even about what I think of Bruce, it's that he's from the school of thought that saw us signing people like Richardson, Richards, Cole, Lescott, etc and that was at the heart of our fall.

I don’t know if he did Paul given the types of signings he made. It certainly wasn’t all his fault because he was given an objective and resources to meet that objective. We went for broke trying to get straight back up but there was too much to fix, too much structurally wrong at the club to turn it around so quickly. Newcastle by comparison while they had their own issues, they came down with a better squad, didn’t make a ton of changes and critically had a top class manager already in place to oversee a project he’d already started.

There was also our urgency as fans to see a quick return so we weren’t against the notion of getting in big name signings to aid that cause. If we really were going to take the long term approach we shouldn’t have signed the likes of McCormack or Elphick or Chester. And we shouldn’t have appointed RDM really. Instead gone for a Dyche or Wagner and told him to build us from the ground up. But that’s not realistic given our size and history and pride.

We are almost now forced into that direction. And the likes of Dyche or Wagner are probably out of our reach now given where they are in their careers. So we have to find the next one, blow up the squad especially the older players on short term deals and almost start from scratch.

[sickbeggar]

yeah but look at the players on long contracts. It's bloody scary really. Whelan till he's 35, Jedinak till he's 34, Bjarnson till he's 32, Lansbury, Elmo. It's like a retirement home for old footballers. I mean even a lot of the moneybags teams in the premiership have a policy of not offering more than a year to players over 30.

[cdbearsfan]

Not sure if we need to expand the stadium on current form.

[paul_e]

We should've gone down the rebuild from top to bottom route the moment we got relegated.

That said, none of us were moaning when we spent big. The absolute desperation to get back up straight away has left us years off actually achieving it IMHO.

Putting a solid structure and playing style in place and seeing it through how ever long it took would've been far wiser than attempting a quick patch up job on a completely broken club.

IMHO at least

I think RDM actually did start going in the right direction, he just under-estimated how big the job was and got his choices wrong in the centre of midfield.  The real mistake was to move away from that so quickly to someone who wanted to do the same things that Lambert, etc had been doing for a few years before we were relegated.  The desperation that led to Bruce is what fucked us up.  It's not even about what I think of Bruce, it's that he's from the school of thought that saw us signing people like Richardson, Richards, Cole, Lescott, etc and that was at the heart of our fall.

Not sure about that Paul when you look at the signings RDM made.  I think the ethos was to sign proven players at that level to try and get us straight back up and that was understandable at the time.  Bruce has followed that philosophy and if we don't make it up this season it will be time for a total re-think.

I think he got 2 badly wrong (Elphick and McCormack) and a couple who were young players that didn't step up as he hoped (Tish and Gollini).  After that you had DeLaet who was really unlucky to get injured, Chester, Kodjia and Adomah who have all been very good and Jedinak who had a great season last year.  Most of them weren't signings for the future but the idea was to get guys of the right age and experience that could give us a few years whilst the younger players were built up around them.

Bruce did follow that in Jan, he just didn't do it with any finesse, Bjarnason was pointless, Hogan was ill-thought, Lansbury or Hourihane would've been fine but not both and Taylor was ok but always looked like a very limited player.  Johnstone was a good signing and Bree/Bedeau are for the future so I'm ok with those 3.  In the summer though he just lost the plot and signed a bunch of old men when what we really needed was energy and mobility.  He did, eventually, realise what a mess he'd made and bring in Onomah on loan but it was far too late by then and he's compounded it by not playing him as a box-to-box midfielder.

[Des Little]

What’s the latest on the ‘Villa Engine'?