Bullying

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

He clearly has acted inappropriately:

"There is evidence of bullying, aggressive behaviour, and unacceptable language by Mr MacDonald."  Whether the club chooses to sack him because of it, is entirely up to them though.

I was about to post that exact quote from the article. That's all I'm basing my conclusions on. It is entirely up to the club whether or not to sack him, I'm just troubled by the fact that they chose not to.

[paul_e]

I already quoted that bit though, I honestly think that if the advice had been to sack him it would've happened so there must be more to it than there appears to be in that line.

I may be wrong, but for me if there's been 3 reviews and none of them have come to the conclusion that he should be sacked then it's probably not so clear cut.

[sickbeggar]

I guess its a thin line you have to tread between bullying and getting young adults to reach their potential.Not really sure if i've missed it but i can't see an age range quoted and to me that makes a big difference.

[dave.woodhall]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Dave Conn is a great writer, who has helped as much as anyone to challenge the perception that football journalism is all about sick as a parrot cliches and EXCLUSIVES!!! but if he has a fault it's that where a big club are concerned he tends to damn them without trial and invariably believe the other side.

[PeterWithe]

I now realise that when I played Sunday league I was subjected to undiagnosed bullying by the manager, and had to pay him subs for the privilege.

[sickbeggar]

I now realise that when I played Sunday league I was subjected to undiagnosed bullying by the manager, and had to pay him subs for the privilege.

yep. where do you draw the line? if its a 14 year old then fair enough, but you'd hope if a 20year old or 18 or  even 16 and you're not doing yourself justice, then for every player who would claim bullying, another 3 would say it was the kick-up the backside they needed.. I'd hope Bruce could be technically bullying some players

[Risso]

I already quoted that bit though, I honestly think that if the advice had been to sack him it would've happened so there must be more to it than there appears to be in that line.

I may be wrong, but for me if there's been 3 reviews and none of them have come to the conclusion that he should be sacked then it's probably not so clear cut.

I’m not sure it’d be within the powers of the PL or the FA to suggest that a club official be fired.  His contract of employment is with Villa, and nobody else.  Even if this isn’t correct, I think they’ve proved recently with the likes of Sampson that their own procedures and decision making are deeply flawed.

[Stu]

As a victim of workplace bullying (because I have hearing loss and it's totes hilar to make sure the deaf guy can't hear what you're saying, and one time actually having the piss ripped out of me because I couldn't hear properly), you know when you're being set upon.

There's normally a ringleader that readies the troops for the day's assault and it gets to the point where you start to think that you're the problem. In fact, it's the poisonous atmosphere that you have disturbed.

It's interesting that we've heard anecdotal stuff on here, from Legion no less, that Villa's academy was in the doldrums and kids were going to Albion or Blues instead. Well now we know why.

[sickbeggar]

As a victim of workplace bullying (because I have hearing loss and it's totes hilar to make sure the deaf guy can't hear what you're saying, and one time actually having the piss ripped out of me because I couldn't hear properly), you know when you're being set upon.

There's normally a ringleader that readies the troops for the day's assault and it gets to the point where you start to think that you're the problem. In fact, it's the poisonous atmosphere that you have disturbed.

It's interesting that we've heard anecdotal stuff on here, from Legion no less, that Villa's academy was in the doldrums and kids were going to Albion or Blues instead. Well now we know why.

well that's the question really. was this 'kid' having the piss ripped out of him in a calculated manner in training or elsewhere, and actually picked on which is bullying, or as stated bad language and aggressive behaviour which sounds very much like a half time teamtalk if you're playing crap. In that case most of the youth coaches in the country would be sacked,. Obviously some players respond or don't to that treatment, and that is part of the skillset a youth coach must have - working out which players need a talking to, and which want a arm round them

[Risso]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Dave Conn is a great writer, who has helped as much as anyone to challenge the perception that football journalism is all about sick as a parrot cliches and EXCLUSIVES!!! but if he has a fault it's that where a big club are concerned he tends to damn them without trial and invariably believe the other side.

His story is really just an update on the piece The Telegraph ran back in March though.

[Gareth]

Nothing I’ve ever read about MacDonald does anything to dispel the opinion I have that he’s a massive twat.

MacDonald should've gone after the Tottenham debacle.

He should no more of been sacked for that or the 6-0 at Newcastle as he should have been given a 10yr contract after the win vs West Ham.  He was covering a job no more no less.

As for the matter in hand as others have said we don’t know all the facts, the headlines yes, full facts no, you have to trust that the powers that be in the club do have the facts and if there was ANY safeguarding issue McDonald would have been removed.  If not then it’s a house of cards that would collapse & Wyness, Round etc would be untenable if they haven’t acted to protect the young players.  The very word bullying implies wrong doing though and not something that can be ignored.

Anyone who has ever watched him on the touch line of a reserve game will know he has an aggressive nature barking out his orders, clearly a lot of players respond to the ‘tough love’ positively however it is never acceptable if anything has gone beyond the line. 

Suspect the article will force the club into a statement of some sort to clarify the position.

[SoccerHQ]

Nothing I’ve ever read about MacDonald does anything to dispel the opinion I have that he’s a massive twat.

Many young players have come through under his watch. In recent times likes of Albrighton, Bannan, Fonz, Weimann etc.

He's good at his job. If he overstepped the mark you'd like to think a few of those would've raised things.

[SoccerHQ]

There is an argument to say he sabotaged the company he worked for in the explanation given for the team he picked that night.

I'd actually forgotten about that game. Some strange picks bu Eric Black's team selections later that season were on another level.

On balance I'd have given him longer as caretaker in 10/11 while a more inspiring candidate than Houllier became available.

[dave.woodhall]

"He liked to...belittle players".

"He said, 'You're over there with the shit...'."

"He was a bully."

That's what his players said. What do you think now?

[adrenachrome]

I already quoted that bit though, I honestly think that if the advice had been to sack him it would've happened so there must be more to it than there appears to be in that line.

I may be wrong, but for me if there's been 3 reviews and none of them have come to the conclusion that he should be sacked then it's probably not so clear cut.

I think you are right.

There is a sulphurous stench of the witch hunt in the mass media at the moment where people are being proved guilty before the evidence is presented. If Villa fans genuinely think that Kevin Mac has been retained despite evidence against him, we are in a very bad place indeed.

One good thing which might come out of all this is a reappraisal of these ubiquitous non-disclosure agreements.