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Author Topic: Keith Wyness  (Read 2783 times)

Offline ciggiesnbeer

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Keith Wyness
« on: November 07, 2017, 08:41:19 PM »
I looked I couldnt find he had his own thread. Please merge if there is one.

So. Over a year in, time for reflection perhaps.

Mine:
Everton has clearly not done very well without him.
I think our squad is now solid, dare I say good? He would get the blame if it was crap, so I give him credit as its not.
A few misses on transfers, but also some very good pick ups.
Finally he has hired two managers, both I thought were decent choices. Certainly not the same as the shitshow hires we went through before him.

Your thoughts?

Online paul_e

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 08:46:16 PM »
I don't think there's much to say right now, his reputation is banked entirely on Bruce for me.  If Bruce manages to push on and get us into the top 2 then Wyness gets credit for sticking with him in the summer when he had more than enough reason to sack him.  If we don't get up this season then Wyness gets as much blame as anyone for me.

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 09:03:10 PM »
Our efforts to return to the top division last season were pitiful. Little or no evidence of board governance over management spend, key issue during the Lerner era that got us where we are. While we have a strong squad for this division, it's unbalanced in key areas and many of the signings made in Wyness time alone already seem surplus to requirements.

Bruce fails, Wyness needs to fall on his sword.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 09:54:56 PM »
Like most judge them when we're back in the premier league imo.

Online olaftab

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 10:02:09 PM »
Let's not compare him just yet to previous regimes. He is managing a club in the lower tier than the others did and not doing all that well. Two reasonably mediocre appointments and a it appears a fair bit of money has been wasted in the 3 transfer windows under his stewardship. So let's wait.

Offline not3bad

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 11:00:07 PM »
The appointment Wyness made were both solid and with a good pedigree for this division. It could also be reasonably argued that sacking Bruce in the Summer would have been taking chopping and changing to a ridiculous degree given the merry go round that has been taking place in the last 3 years.

Online paul_e

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 11:43:40 PM »
The appointment Wyness made were both solid and with a good pedigree for this division. It could also be reasonably argued that sacking Bruce in the Summer would have been taking chopping and changing to a ridiculous degree given the merry go round that has been taking place in the last 3 years.

That's not an argument to be had right now though.  If we get promoted then he'll have made a good decision, if we miss out on it he won't have.

I refuse to accept that they didn't set targets for Bruce last season and I also refuse to accept that those targets will have been met by finishing in the bottom half so I believe that Wyness chose to keep faith in a manager who he liked and that he thought could deliver more than he had.  If you do that you have to be certain that he's going to meet his targets for the next year and right now that's very much in the balance.

I also really don't like the argument that keeping Bruce even if he's not doing well is the right thing to do because we were too quick to sack Sherwood, Garde and RDM, mainly because it's used regularly by people who were calling for RDM to go 2-3 games before he did and who wanted Garde gone by about the February, I don't know if that includes you though.  If you think a manager needs to be given a season/3 windows/50 games/whatever before you make a decision then at least apply that consistently.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 10:15:22 AM »
We can't really judge the new leadership until we see a full set of accounts, either.

Online boozey182

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 10:39:01 AM »
I think last season could be seen as a missed opportunity. In our (admittedly understandable) desperation to get back up, we threw an awful lot of money at the team, without a clear plan. Even in January, we were still buying players that didn't seem to fit with our style of play. And all the while Davis, RHM, O'Hare etc were not getting a look in. They may not have been ready last year, but might have benefitted from a few more appearances off the bench.

I think the 'get up and then start planning' policy is pretty underwhelming. If it gets us up this year, fine, but if it doesn't we will have wasted an awful lot of money and possibly our best two shots at promotion. Having said that, if we'd have taken a different route, things could have got worse, so it was probably the safest option. Just not very inspiring.

As others have said, it all depends on this year. If we go up, he'd have done a good job. If we don't, he'd have failed. That could be said about pretty much everyone at the club though!

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 10:51:36 AM »
By hook or by crook we will get out of the championship sooner or later (probably needs to be this year as think next year will be very difficult with the changes we'd have to make to the squad).

I don't believe we'll be in exile for decades at this level like Sheff Weds. and Leeds have been in any case.

You don't need genius management decisions to get promoted from this division although we're having a good crack at making it look near impossible.

Anyway to me back in the premier league is the real time to judge. Will Xia have a go like Lerner did in his first four seasons? Will we actually make sure we have a proper idea of how we want to appoint managers when the time comes to let SB go? Will we have a clear definition of how we play and the overall culture inside the club.

Some of those things and how well/badly we do then will be the difference between re-establishing ourselves in the top 10 like a Southampton/Leicester or just bumbling along at the bottom like we did from 2010.

Look at the premier league this season, it is incredibly poor below the top 6. You don't need to spend 200m to finish 9th as Burnley could do it spending about 2.50 this summer.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 01:15:23 PM »
Only one measurement for both Wyness and Bruce = promotion

Year one - failed

Year 2 - Better than year one but not totally convincing even for the lottery that is the play offs - certainly failing on anticipation of top 2 atm

Offline Nelly

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 01:17:50 PM »
I'm not convinced we will make the Premier League. We look too disjointed and haven't yet given me the belief that we as a team belong in a division higher than this. If we do get promoted I could see this team getting drubbed weekly. We haven't taken this opportunity to build something lasting and positive. Talk of 'The Villa Engine' is nice but the first team don't play it, so, erm, what's the point?

Wyness seems like a good chap but if we don't get promoted then I would have to question his approach.

Maybe I'm asking for too much too soon.

Online Clampy

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 01:19:59 PM »
Last season was always going to be a big ask whoever was in charge, we were in an absolute mess.

Offline Ian J

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 01:48:38 PM »
Only one measurement for both Wyness and Bruce = promotion

Year one - failed

Year 2 - Better than year one but not totally convincing even for the lottery that is the play offs - certainly failing on anticipation of top 2 atm
It's not quite as cut and shut as that though. We have had years and years of mismanagement which will not or can not be fixed overnight.

Offline The Moose

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Re: Keith Wyness
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 02:02:40 PM »
Fixed overnight? Maybe not, but fixed in months, why not? The money is there, we are told.  Get rid of the negatives in the club, be they players, management, backroom staff, whatever. Just do it.
We miss out this year and wilderness years as experienced by others may follow.