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Author Topic: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread  (Read 30773 times)

Offline paul_e

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #255 on: October 15, 2017, 05:55:20 PM »
The biggest think pissing me off is the accusation of how far we have fallen behind Wolves. Well were a division behind the likes of Palace, Bournemouth and Swansea. It is what it is, and how this club has been neglected by the previous regime. Blaming Bruce for our current standing in the football hierarchy is disingenuous.  Im no fan of Bruce and his football, but he has nowhere done enough to be sacked and therefore we should see how far he can get us without this pathetic outcry everytime we don't get a result.

He isn't responsible for us being in this league, that's true, but he's not doing enough to get us out of it either.  Many people said, before a ball was kicked, that automatic promotion means 2 points per game and that was clearly also the target for the season.  After 12 games we're 5 points short of that target.  How far short do we have to get before he's seen as failing?  He had us 7 points short in early September and it was 'hysterical' to be worried about it so how difficult does the job need to be for his replacement before we accept the fact that he's shit?

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #256 on: October 15, 2017, 06:15:00 PM »
I think your argument is over simplistic.  It's not just slagging off wins because they were against poor to middling teams, it's about the level of performance and quality,  whether we've won or lost.  The fact is we've ground out most of those wins playing some god-awful football despite the lack of quality in the opposition.   I can kind of see why some are happy to take the results on face value and enjoy them while they can, but I think others are able to see the  bigger picture and put those results into context.    In how many games have we actually looked like a quality team?  Hardly any.   It really should not be difficult to look decent and competent in this division, especially with the money we've spent.  Bruce is making us look way less than the sum of our parts. 

For what it's worth I agree that the style of football is not good enough for the players we have, but I think we lost all chance of us playing attractively when we appointed Bruce. With the fact that you can't teach an old dog new tricks and leopards don't change their spots (etc etc), Bruce will not change and thus we ultimately have to go on results. Results - currently - are improving and we should be looking to be comfortably in a play off spot by Christmas. I don't want Bruce long term, but he's what we've got so right now results, more so than performances, are the priority.

But I think you are missing the point again - in the longer term there is almost bound to be a correlation between results and performance.   Personally I think we've had some good fortune with a few of our recent wins and draws, in the longer term we're just as likely to lose the draws and draw the wins because of our lack of quality.   The recent results may indicate that a play off place or  promotion are feasible,  the performances, in my view, tell a very different story.  It's not about attractive football necessarilly either,  it's about quality, doing the basics.  Some of Mourinho's teams for example aren't particularly good to watch but they do have quality and look as if they know what they are doing.  We seldom do.           

Offline exiled on the wirral!

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #257 on: October 15, 2017, 06:17:11 PM »
So you don't think wanting a manager out after suffering his 1st defeat in 9 matches and 4 wins on the trot is hysterical? Villa were 14th in Division 2 heading into 1975...its a good job Ron Saunders wasn't around now.

Offline Tom_Mc9?

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #258 on: October 15, 2017, 07:12:37 PM »
ktvillan - that's where I disagree with you. I think we'll get scrappy wins where fans think we didn't deserve it - like Bruce's teams always have done. Only time will tell. I can see where you're coming from as we're the antithesis of Barcelona - of course I can - but I do think we'll pick up points more often than not.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #259 on: October 15, 2017, 07:26:55 PM »


Match verdict after a 24 hour cool down. We were very poor.

Most wanted us to keep the same winning team and formation, we did. Of course we then had some claim we shouldn't have. Standard

So many players were below par yesterday it was hard to fathom. It wasn't due to some Wolves magic either, they just looked very lethargic and clueless where in previous weeks they've looked decent. Kodjia, Davis, Snodgrass, Adomah, Hourianne, Elmo ... the list is endless. I'd love to know why

The Madrid of the Black Country played well. But some of the talk since about them being amazing is frankly hilarious. They didn't have to get out of third gear to beat our lot yesterday and it still took them 36 minutes to register a pot shot on target.

What puzzles me now is do we stick with the winning formation/team or try freshening things up on Saturday ? O'Hare could be a decent punt for me

Oh, and about Hutton. I can't stand him. But fair play for the 2/3 tackles, they were excellent. Perfectly balanced out by his 2/3 awful moments going forward of course but that's the bloke all over




Offline paul_e

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #260 on: October 15, 2017, 07:42:06 PM »
So you don't think wanting a manager out after suffering his 1st defeat in 9 matches and 4 wins on the trot is hysterical? Villa were 14th in Division 2 heading into 1975...its a good job Ron Saunders wasn't around now.

I don't think being unsure about a manager who was hired to get promotion, finished 13th and is outside the play offs again is hysterical.

Yet again it's all about expectations and targets, in march Wyness said:

Quote
We can't get away from that at all. We want to do everything we can next season to go up. It will be an important season, we have got a great squad, there will be no excuses for us not to go up.

In July you had this from Xia:

Quote
"One particular task this season is to dramatically improve our away results.

"Hope the new away kit brings luck to us, 15+away wins! UTV!"

Right now, even with 4 wins on the bounce, we're not looking like meeting either of those targets.  We may beat Fulham and Blues and be right in the mix for the top 2 by the end of the month, or we might struggle to a point in both of them and be midtable, I think both of those are likely as the other based on what we've seen under Bruce, and that's why people aren't happy.

Offline exiled on the wirral!

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #261 on: October 15, 2017, 08:29:37 PM »
So you don't think wanting a manager out after suffering his 1st defeat in 9 matches and 4 wins on the trot is hysterical? Villa were 14th in Division 2 heading into 1975...its a good job Ron Saunders wasn't around now.

I don't think being unsure about a manager who was hired to get promotion, finished 13th and is outside the play offs again is hysterical.

Yet again it's all about expectations and targets, in march Wyness said:

Quote
We can't get away from that at all. We want to do everything we can next season to go up. It will be an important season, we have got a great squad, there will be no excuses for us not to go up.

In July you had this from Xia:

Quote
"One particular task this season is to dramatically improve our away results.

"Hope the new away kit brings luck to us, 15+away wins! UTV!"

Right now, even with 4 wins on the bounce, we're not looking like meeting either of those targets.  We may beat Fulham and Blues and be right in the mix for the top 2 by the end of the month, or we might struggle to a point in both of them and be midtable, I think both of those are likely as the other based on what we've seen under Bruce, and that's why people aren't happy.
Being unsure is one thing..being hysterical is another. Id rather give someone time and given the benefit of the doubt rather than   than wripping everything up and starting again....when we are a point of the play offs and 5 points of automatic.

Offline ciggiesnbeer

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #262 on: October 15, 2017, 08:34:47 PM »
"Hystericals" vs "Happy Clappers"
Might make for a decent 5 a side game :)

Offline exiled on the wirral!

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #263 on: October 15, 2017, 08:37:27 PM »
"Hystericals" vs "Happy Clappers"
Might make for a decent 5 a side game :)
Not sure I fancy that..one missed pass and id be sacked😂

Offline Martyn Smith

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #264 on: October 15, 2017, 08:59:50 PM »
"We'll dust ourselves down and go again."

Sounds familiar...

Actually I don't think this is the time to sack Bruce, not whilst we are still in touch with the play off places at least.

I do hope we do some business in January though. There is deadwood there that needs clearing. See if we can get permanent transfers out for any of our on loans as well to build a decent transfer kitty (we got a tidy sum for Amavi apparently so there's something in it already at least).

Offline paul_e

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #265 on: October 15, 2017, 09:01:02 PM »
So you don't think wanting a manager out after suffering his 1st defeat in 9 matches and 4 wins on the trot is hysterical? Villa were 14th in Division 2 heading into 1975...its a good job Ron Saunders wasn't around now.

I don't think being unsure about a manager who was hired to get promotion, finished 13th and is outside the play offs again is hysterical.

Yet again it's all about expectations and targets, in march Wyness said:

Quote
We can't get away from that at all. We want to do everything we can next season to go up. It will be an important season, we have got a great squad, there will be no excuses for us not to go up.

In July you had this from Xia:

Quote
"One particular task this season is to dramatically improve our away results.

"Hope the new away kit brings luck to us, 15+away wins! UTV!"

Right now, even with 4 wins on the bounce, we're not looking like meeting either of those targets.  We may beat Fulham and Blues and be right in the mix for the top 2 by the end of the month, or we might struggle to a point in both of them and be midtable, I think both of those are likely as the other based on what we've seen under Bruce, and that's why people aren't happy.
Being unsure is one thing..being hysterical is another. Id rather give someone time and given the benefit of the doubt rather than   than wripping everything up and starting again....when we are a point of the play offs and 5 points of automatic.

the bold bit is exactly right but it's not me you need to tell that, I'm not remotely hysterical and never have been, I had clear targets for what I'd see as acceptable for him to deliver and he's missed all of them so far and is short of the current ones as well.  I don't think we can sack him right now and I certainly won't be tweeting anyone demanding it but I also think it's inevitable that he'll fall short again and be sacked.  On that basis my concern has always been about giving the next guy the best possible chance.  If we're 12-13th in the league at the start of December then that might be too big a gap for a new manager to make up, but if we're 7th-8th it might not be enough to sack him.  I hope I'm wrong, I hope we win 6-7 on the bounce and are in the automatic spots coming up to the window, but I just can't see it.

Offline OCD

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #266 on: October 15, 2017, 10:40:13 PM »
Bruce got his tactics wrong yesterday. We couldn't afford to play a right-sided midfielder at right back against a team with a dangerous front 3, just as we couldn't afford to only deploy a midfield 2 against their 3. I would rather we had played De Laet at right back, even if there was a risk that he wouldn't last the 90 and played Onomah instead of Kodjia.

One of Bruce's biggest failings must be that despite re-shaping the whole squad, he's only comfortable playing the same 11 each week. He should be able to make tactical changes and rotational changes to keep everyone fresh but doesn't look like he can. We were crap in the first match after the last international break and Bruce held his hands up and said he should have freshened things up yet did exactly the same thing again. Einstein's definition of insanity is to repeat the same actions and expect different results.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #267 on: October 16, 2017, 12:12:11 AM »
Bruce got his tactics wrong yesterday. We couldn't afford to play a right-sided midfielder at right back against a team with a dangerous front 3, just as we couldn't afford to only deploy a midfield 2 against their 3. I would rather we had played De Laet at right back, even if there was a risk that he wouldn't last the 90 and played Onomah instead of Kodjia.

One of Bruce's biggest failings must be that despite re-shaping the whole squad, he's only comfortable playing the same 11 each week. He should be able to make tactical changes and rotational changes to keep everyone fresh but doesn't look like he can. We were crap in the first match after the last international break and Bruce held his hands up and said he should have freshened things up yet did exactly the same thing again. Einstein's definition of insanity is to repeat the same actions and expect different results.

For the 2nd paragraph I suspect that's because his approach is to tinker about until something works and then flog it to death until it doesn't.  His signings don't suggest a plan, his tactics don't suggest a plan, it's all down to if you throw enough quality on the pitch they'll work it out for themselves.  I might be wrong but I just don't see how the signings he's made fit into any sort of master plan to turn us into something else, it was all about getting as many options as he could handle and then seeing what happens.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #268 on: October 16, 2017, 01:07:37 AM »
So you don't think wanting a manager out after suffering his 1st defeat in 9 matches and 4 wins on the trot is hysterical? Villa were 14th in Division 2 heading into 1975...its a good job Ron Saunders wasn't around now.

I don't think being unsure about a manager who was hired to get promotion, finished 13th and is outside the play offs again is hysterical.

Yet again it's all about expectations and targets, in march Wyness said:

Quote
We can't get away from that at all. We want to do everything we can next season to go up. It will be an important season, we have got a great squad, there will be no excuses for us not to go up.

In July you had this from Xia:

Quote
"One particular task this season is to dramatically improve our away results.

"Hope the new away kit brings luck to us, 15+away wins! UTV!"

Right now, even with 4 wins on the bounce, we're not looking like meeting either of those targets.  We may beat Fulham and Blues and be right in the mix for the top 2 by the end of the month, or we might struggle to a point in both of them and be midtable, I think both of those are likely as the other based on what we've seen under Bruce, and that's why people aren't happy.
Being unsure is one thing..being hysterical is another. Id rather give someone time and given the benefit of the doubt rather than   than wripping everything up and starting again....when we are a point of the play offs and 5 points of automatic.

the bold bit is exactly right but it's not me you need to tell that, I'm not remotely hysterical and never have been, I had clear targets for what I'd see as acceptable for him to deliver and he's missed all of them so far and is short of the current ones as well.  I don't think we can sack him right now and I certainly won't be tweeting anyone demanding it but I also think it's inevitable that he'll fall short again and be sacked.  On that basis my concern has always been about giving the next guy the best possible chance.  If we're 12-13th in the league at the start of December then that might be too big a gap for a new manager to make up, but if we're 7th-8th it might not be enough to sack him.  I hope I'm wrong, I hope we win 6-7 on the bounce and are in the automatic spots coming up to the window, but I just can't see it.

We're in a bit of a difficult situation Paul.  To sack Bruce now would be harsh, but a run of bad results over the kind of timeframe when serious questions would start being asked would probably see us out of promotion contention anyway.  I honestly think we are now stuck with him until the point (it might not come) when we have such a poor run that promotion begins to look unlikely.  I can't see him going anywhere if we are in touching distance of the play offs or better.

Offline auntiesledd

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Re: Wolves v Pups Post-Match Thread
« Reply #269 on: October 16, 2017, 09:01:06 AM »
"Hystericals" vs "Happy Clappers"
Might make for a decent 5 a side game :)

We should make it a 4-team tournament by including The Bedwetters & Delusionals.  ;)

 


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