Quote from: Chris Jameson on September 27, 2017, 08:48:02 PMBlimey, there's some touchy people out there, merely making the point that possession means sod all a lot of the time. I don't take a blind bit of notice of it but see on BT that Benfica are 2-0 down having had 70% possession and Bayern are also 2-0 down having had 64% possession. I'm fairly sure that if it stays the same their supporters won't be celebrating.Anorak!
Blimey, there's some touchy people out there, merely making the point that possession means sod all a lot of the time. I don't take a blind bit of notice of it but see on BT that Benfica are 2-0 down having had 70% possession and Bayern are also 2-0 down having had 64% possession. I'm fairly sure that if it stays the same their supporters won't be celebrating.
Quote from: paul_e on September 27, 2017, 10:00:15 PMQuote from: LeeB on September 27, 2017, 09:24:53 PMI think that can be misleading though, as those teams are at the elite level and contain players with flawless technique, and to give up possession means giving it up to players with flawless technique.At our level at not so sure it holds fast. Having lots of pointless possession because you can't find a way through a solid defence usually leads to a fuck up which gifts an opening to a team set up to exploit it. Teams with lots of possession end up being more vulnerable.It may be misleading but my perception of those clubs that succeed in this division is that they are obdurate rather dominating.I agree, the underlying truth is that if you let technically superior teams boss possession they'll beat you easily. That said we should be the technically superior team in most games so if we have more possession we should find beating teams easily, in this league, becomes a habit. That's what we all want to see happen. This whole discussion is just retreading the whole result then good football vs good football then results argument, some people think you have to concentrate on results and then if better football comes with the confidence then that's great, others think that playing better football gives you a better chance to win games.Shot dominance is a much more important stat that reflects games much more accurately but when I mentioned that earlier in the season it got moaned about just as much, what we've seen in the last few games is us getting a lot more shots on target and we've scored 9 in 3 after struggling to get much over a goal a game for the previous 40 matches under Bruce.You're probably right there. I think our style of attack is suited to be more direct, not hoofing but playing forward at pace rather than passing, meaning we create more in less time.Watching us live against Barnsley and Forest, I noticed how disciplined we were without the ball as a team, players swapping automatically when the opposition moving into another zone with the ball, which meant the shape held and we didn't look uncomfortable, something long missing from our game.It also means we break in the right shape. Once we sharpen up playing together, and the signs all point to this taking place, I think we'll be lethal. And we'll see more games virtually wrapped up by half time.
Quote from: LeeB on September 27, 2017, 09:24:53 PMI think that can be misleading though, as those teams are at the elite level and contain players with flawless technique, and to give up possession means giving it up to players with flawless technique.At our level at not so sure it holds fast. Having lots of pointless possession because you can't find a way through a solid defence usually leads to a fuck up which gifts an opening to a team set up to exploit it. Teams with lots of possession end up being more vulnerable.It may be misleading but my perception of those clubs that succeed in this division is that they are obdurate rather dominating.I agree, the underlying truth is that if you let technically superior teams boss possession they'll beat you easily. That said we should be the technically superior team in most games so if we have more possession we should find beating teams easily, in this league, becomes a habit. That's what we all want to see happen. This whole discussion is just retreading the whole result then good football vs good football then results argument, some people think you have to concentrate on results and then if better football comes with the confidence then that's great, others think that playing better football gives you a better chance to win games.Shot dominance is a much more important stat that reflects games much more accurately but when I mentioned that earlier in the season it got moaned about just as much, what we've seen in the last few games is us getting a lot more shots on target and we've scored 9 in 3 after struggling to get much over a goal a game for the previous 40 matches under Bruce.
I think that can be misleading though, as those teams are at the elite level and contain players with flawless technique, and to give up possession means giving it up to players with flawless technique.At our level at not so sure it holds fast. Having lots of pointless possession because you can't find a way through a solid defence usually leads to a fuck up which gifts an opening to a team set up to exploit it. Teams with lots of possession end up being more vulnerable.It may be misleading but my perception of those clubs that succeed in this division is that they are obdurate rather dominating.
Highlights
Quote from: Rudy Can't Fail on September 27, 2017, 08:51:50 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on September 27, 2017, 08:48:02 PMBlimey, there's some touchy people out there, merely making the point that possession means sod all a lot of the time. I don't take a blind bit of notice of it but see on BT that Benfica are 2-0 down having had 70% possession and Bayern are also 2-0 down having had 64% possession. I'm fairly sure that if it stays the same their supporters won't be celebrating.Anorak!He's going to start going on about zonal marking and gegenpressing soon, before telling us he's now a St Pauli fan.
If you follow that through we'll get to the point where teams sit a little deeper and don't give us those spaces to play into, it's exactly how teams responded to MON creating a similar team. That's why you need to be able to do both. If teams sit deep we need to be able to move the ball quickly and have good movement to create gaps, if they try to keep the ball off us we draw them on a little and then, as you describe, break quickly.In this league, with our squad, we should be able to find a way to win against most teams, we have the experience and talent to expect that much and if anyone gets judged harshly it's because the expectations are high. Too many times in the last year we've been below the standard I'd expect and I suspect that's true for a huge number of fans. Last night is the benchmark, that's what this team should be doing and if they do discussions around the style of play, possession, Bruce being sacked, various players being shit all quietens down or goes away completely because all we want to see a team that is delivering what we expect.