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Author Topic: John Terry - Gone  (Read 549737 times)

Online paul_e

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2595 on: January 18, 2018, 09:41:41 PM »
The ferdinand thing was never my biggest problem with Terry, him taking Milner out with a genuinely disgusting challenge is a much bigger black mark for me.

Offline Hopadop

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2596 on: January 18, 2018, 10:12:38 PM »
It's worth having a read of the Judgment acquitting him - Here

In short he accepted saying "fucking black ******", but only because he thought that was what he was being accused of saying and was repeating it back as a question. I think he was fortunate to be acquitted but he quite rightly got the benefit of the judge having found a doubt

It's also worth noting that there was unopposed evidence that he's not *actually* a racist, despite the allegation being he had committed a racially aggravated offence. It's a bit confusing, but you can be guilty of such an offence if it's motivated by racism (ie you're a proper, full-blown racist) or at the time of the offence you demonstrate hostility based on race, as alleged in his case.

I couldn't really see the fuss about him shagging Wayne Bridge's ex. I'm sure there's much worse going all the time.

But I can't stand him. I'm not holier than thou, and I'm not unforgiving. Football's about heroes and villains and he's always been the latter. The time he almost snapped Milner's standing leg in two, then rather than check on his England colleague pretended to be injured and bleated like a calf. We're a broad church and a lot seem happy that he's played well and not put much of a foot wrong. That's fair enough, but for me he can't fuck off out of my club quick enough.




Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2597 on: January 18, 2018, 10:17:23 PM »
And this is it. I accept anyone who is willing to take high position on Terry. But then shouldn’t you also do the same for a legend like Paul McGrath who in 2010 was charged for drink driving, not only putting his life at risk but that innocent pedestrians and motorists. If we are going to hold footballers to high standards or anyone for that matter do we also not have a responsibility to be consistent in our condemnation? Or is McGrath being Villa and Terry not the dividing line?

Offline ciggiesnbeer

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2598 on: January 18, 2018, 10:19:06 PM »
I agree. I stated my case earlier also as someone of colour who has faced a lot of racism in my time. I can tell the difference based from what I have read about him. I think he was stupid and ignorant for what he said, and one can only hope that's all it was versus something deeper. But there has been nothing to suggest at least from what we know that he is like that as a person.

Either way, going on and on about it is pointless in my opinion. I'm going to separate what he did, what I can tell he did to repair the damage and certainly what he's done since as my markers for how I view him now. And like you're suggesting he's not put a foot wrong since arriving. In fact he's demonstrated a level of commitment, conduct and professionalism every player at the club should aspire to.

As an aside you are a good man TV. I don't have the morale strength to take the high ground in such matters as you have done. When I am on the receiving end of something I never take the time to look at it cooly or with the level of intelligence you do. Probably something I should work on. Anyway thanks for making me think of ways to better myself.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2599 on: January 18, 2018, 10:28:14 PM »


But I can't stand him. I'm not holier than thou, and I'm not unforgiving. Football's about heroes and villains and he's always been the latter. The time he almost snapped Milner's standing leg in two, then rather than check on his England colleague pretended to be injured and bleated like a calf. We're a broad church and a lot seem happy that he's played well and not put much of a foot wrong. That's fair enough, but for me he can't fuck off out of my club quick enough.





Sums it up nicely for me. If he was at any club other than Villa I reckon 99% in this thread would feel the same way about him.

Offline stuart445

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2600 on: January 18, 2018, 10:41:49 PM »
If you think John Terry shouldn't be constantly reminded about what he did why don't you go into work and say exactly what he said and see what happens.

I'll bet that you won't be getting a several new contracts with increased pay.

Oh and good luck finding a new job after because with that on your record it'll be near impossible to get another job for a very long time and once you do I doubt it'll be a job that is very much more than minimum wage.
This.

If you constantly remind (even convicted) offenders of what they did or publicise details of their previous offences you're in danger of falling foul of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act with legal consequences against you.

The may be many who support your sentiment, but the law is against you in pretty much every regard.

Tell that to my former colleague who was sacked for the same thing as what Terry did and has found it impossible to find a new job.

Offline Hopadop

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2601 on: January 18, 2018, 10:47:57 PM »
And this is it. I accept anyone who is willing to take high position on Terry. But then shouldn’t you also do the same for a legend like Paul McGrath who in 2010 was charged for drink driving, not only putting his life at risk but that innocent pedestrians and motorists. If we are going to hold footballers to high standards or anyone for that matter do we also not have a responsibility to be consistent in our condemnation? Or is McGrath being Villa and Terry not the dividing line?

I honestly don't know, maybe. But despite his demons I think Paul McGrath is a decent man. I don't think that's particularly partisan - don't most people outside of Villa have some affection and respect for him? I can wish him well despite his flaws and hope he overcomes them, without harming himself or worse still others in the process.

But John Terry I have a problem with. It's not anything to lose sleep over and I'm sure he'll get over it. It might even be stupid and irrational if he improves the club I'm supposed to support. But unlike real life I don't have to be rational about football and I really can't stand him. Never have, never will.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2602 on: January 18, 2018, 11:27:42 PM »
And this is it. I accept anyone who is willing to take high position on Terry. But then shouldn’t you also do the same for a legend like Paul McGrath who in 2010 was charged for drink driving, not only putting his life at risk but that innocent pedestrians and motorists. If we are going to hold footballers to high standards or anyone for that matter do we also not have a responsibility to be consistent in our condemnation? Or is McGrath being Villa and Terry not the dividing line?

I honestly don't know, maybe. But despite his demons I think Paul McGrath is a decent man. I don't think that's particularly partisan - don't most people outside of Villa have some affection and respect for him? I can wish him well despite his flaws and hope he overcomes them, without harming himself or worse still others in the process.

But John Terry I have a problem with. It's not anything to lose sleep over and I'm sure he'll get over it. It might even be stupid and irrational if he improves the club I'm supposed to support. But unlike real life I don't have to be rational about football and I really can't stand him. Never have, never will.

I'm like this. Drink driving is reprehensible and dangerous and irresponsible, but the guy's an alcoholic and alcohol impairs people's judgement.

Racism is indicative of foul, inhumane character, with implications about the beholder's wider view of the world we share.

That said, if Rio Ferdinand reckons he's more coward than racist then I can live with that. We're all capable of cowardice to varying degrees (as we are of racism). Better a coward than a racist though.

Offline Canadian Villa

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2603 on: January 18, 2018, 11:41:15 PM »
I saw a clip on YouTube about Stan Collymore always being labelled with the wife beater tag and people treating him differently to Paul Gascoigne and Joey Barton. It is true though, we forgive McGrath and Gazza and move on but not so much Collymore or Barton. All 4 have had some serious indiscretions. It is interesting why we do that.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2604 on: January 19, 2018, 01:19:57 AM »
I agree. I stated my case earlier also as someone of colour who has faced a lot of racism in my time. I can tell the difference based from what I have read about him. I think he was stupid and ignorant for what he said, and one can only hope that's all it was versus something deeper. But there has been nothing to suggest at least from what we know that he is like that as a person.

Either way, going on and on about it is pointless in my opinion. I'm going to separate what he did, what I can tell he did to repair the damage and certainly what he's done since as my markers for how I view him now. And like you're suggesting he's not put a foot wrong since arriving. In fact he's demonstrated a level of commitment, conduct and professionalism every player at the club should aspire to.

As an aside you are a good man TV. I don't have the morale strength to take the high ground in such matters as you have done. When I am on the receiving end of something I never take the time to look at it cooly or with the level of intelligence you do. Probably something I should work on. Anyway thanks for making me think of ways to better myself.


Thanks I appreciate that. Growing up an Indian kid in the 1970’s and 80’s in Erdington and Aston certainly had its moments. Especially on walks home in the dark of winter. And my old man worked at British Steel for the best part of 30 years. I can only imagine what he had to endure. It’s never a pleasant subject and I can only speak for myself in how I handled it and now view the subject. But it’s provided me a decent perspective as to what actually constitutes versus ignorance. And we’ve all probably been ignorant on any number of topics as we grew up at some time or another. The question is always did we learn and mature?

Offline aev

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2605 on: January 19, 2018, 07:20:29 AM »
If you think John Terry shouldn't be constantly reminded about what he did why don't you go into work and say exactly what he said and see what happens.

I'll bet that you won't be getting a several new contracts with increased pay.

Oh and good luck finding a new job after because with that on your record it'll be near impossible to get another job for a very long time and once you do I doubt it'll be a job that is very much more than minimum wage.
This.

If you constantly remind (even convicted) offenders of what they did or publicise details of their previous offences you're in danger of falling foul of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act with legal consequences against you.

The may be many who support your sentiment, but the law is against you in pretty much every regard.

He was sacked for shagging a colleague’s ex?

Tell that to my former colleague who was sacked for the same thing as what Terry did and has found it impossible to find a new job.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2606 on: January 19, 2018, 08:17:30 AM »
And this is it. I accept anyone who is willing to take high position on Terry. But then shouldn’t you also do the same for a legend like Paul McGrath who in 2010 was charged for drink driving, not only putting his life at risk but that innocent pedestrians and motorists. If we are going to hold footballers to high standards or anyone for that matter do we also not have a responsibility to be consistent in our condemnation? Or is McGrath being Villa and Terry not the dividing line?

I honestly don't know, maybe. But despite his demons I think Paul McGrath is a decent man. I don't think that's particularly partisan - don't most people outside of Villa have some affection and respect for him? I can wish him well despite his flaws and hope he overcomes them, without harming himself or worse still others in the process.

But John Terry I have a problem with. It's not anything to lose sleep over and I'm sure he'll get over it. It might even be stupid and irrational if he improves the club I'm supposed to support. But unlike real life I don't have to be rational about football and I really can't stand him. Never have, never will.

Which is fair enough.  I think it is perfectly rational to dislike someone for the kind of reasons you have given, but still be able to acknowledge that they are very good at what they do.  I still have a certain unease about him being at the club for a number of reasons, but accept that he is still a very good footballer and has done well for us when he has played this season. 

Offline stuart445

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2607 on: January 19, 2018, 09:36:28 AM »
If you think John Terry shouldn't be constantly reminded about what he did why don't you go into work and say exactly what he said and see what happens.

I'll bet that you won't be getting a several new contracts with increased pay.

Oh and good luck finding a new job after because with that on your record it'll be near impossible to get another job for a very long time and once you do I doubt it'll be a job that is very much more than minimum wage.
This.

If you constantly remind (even convicted) offenders of what they did or publicise details of their previous offences you're in danger of falling foul of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act with legal consequences against you.

The may be many who support your sentiment, but the law is against you in pretty much every regard.

He was sacked for shagging a colleague’s ex?

Tell that to my former colleague who was sacked for the same thing as what Terry did and has found it impossible to find a new job.

No he was sacked for using racist language. Hence why I said say.


Online Chris Smith

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2608 on: January 19, 2018, 09:56:09 AM »
Both on and off the pitch he has hardly put a foot wrong since he joined us. I would like to think that is as a sign of maturity and learning from his mistakes. Which is all we can realistically expect from anyone. To err Is human; to forgive divine.

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: John Terry - signed
« Reply #2609 on: January 19, 2018, 11:18:26 AM »
Both on and off the pitch he has hardly put a foot wrong since he joined us. I would like to think that is as a sign of maturity and learning from his mistakes. Which is all we can realistically expect from anyone. To err Is human; to forgive divine.

Absolutely. He's been the consummate professional since he's been here and has had a very positive effect on the squad and the club.

 


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