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Author Topic: John Terry - Gone  (Read 549771 times)

Offline RussellC

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #555 on: June 26, 2017, 02:13:18 PM »
Like a manager who was brought in to get promotion and finished bottom half?

And would you expect Bruce to last beyond Xmas if automatic promotion isn't looking likely at that stage?

Of course not, but that'll be a bit too late won't it, we had people making the excuse for him that 10 games in made promotion impossible, half a season in with form like we've shown under him so far as we're stuck down here for another year.

So you're advocating sacking him now?

Offline boozey182

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #556 on: June 26, 2017, 02:18:00 PM »
There must be more to this than meets the eye, I just really can't fathom it. It just doesn't seem to make sense no matter which angle you look at it. Taking away my personal feelings for the man, our biggest failing over the last few years has been too many big personalities, on too high a wage, that spend too long being injured, at the wrong end of their career, and dramatically reducing the speed at which we can play.

I appreciate that there may be some players at the club that will look up to him and the trophies he's had his picture next to, and that he will be a 'leader' in the sense that he doesn't give up etc. But is that really worth what we're offering him? Is this really the best use of our resources?

Not to mention the fact that if we get off to a bad start, the atmosphere will turn toxic to a level previously unseen down the Villa. Sort of like when John Terry was carried off injured, but much much worse. I don't understand why Bruce wants to put himself under that kind of pressure.

Offline paul_e

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #557 on: June 26, 2017, 02:56:04 PM »
Like a manager who was brought in to get promotion and finished bottom half?

And would you expect Bruce to last beyond Xmas if automatic promotion isn't looking likely at that stage?

Of course not, but that'll be a bit too late won't it, we had people making the excuse for him that 10 games in made promotion impossible, half a season in with form like we've shown under him so far as we're stuck down here for another year.

So you're advocating sacking him now?

Nope, 6 weeks ago but it wasn't going to happen.  As I've said before my real worry is that new owner, in the championship and a first team full of players that the fans would've been happy to see fucked off was a perfect setup for us to change direction and put proper structures in place for the long term success of the club. The managers we've picked and the approach to the transfer market has been pulling in exactly the opposite direction and signings like Terry and Whelan are further evidence that no one at the club gives much of a fuck about doing the hard jobs.

Offline TheMalandro

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #558 on: June 26, 2017, 03:08:59 PM »
There must be more to this than meets the eye, I just really can't fathom it. It just doesn't seem to make sense no matter which angle you look at it.

Perhaps Bruce thinks he has a lot to offer?

Offline RussellC

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #559 on: June 26, 2017, 03:10:01 PM »
Nope, 6 weeks ago but it wasn't going to happen.  As I've said before my real worry is that new owner, in the championship and a first team full of players that the fans would've been happy to see fucked off was a perfect setup for us to change direction and put proper structures in place for the long term success of the club. The managers we've picked and the approach to the transfer market has been pulling in exactly the opposite direction and signings like Terry and Whelan are further evidence that no one at the club gives much of a fuck about doing the hard jobs.

But what about Bree? Bedeau? We're trying to sign Johnstone permanently by all accounts too? The likes of Terry and Whelan would be short-term fixes and there has to be a balance. We need a quick fix as much as we need a complete restructure.

From what I've seen, Xia, Wyness, etc recognise this and are trying to do that. I don't disagree that Bruce isn't a forward-thinking, long-term appointment but Managers that would have been were nowhere to be seen (without taking more of a gamble than Bruce was widely regarded to be) at the time.

Xia strikes me as being almost the complete opposite of Lerner. It's hard to argue that Bruce has performed anything other than poorly so far, and he'll know that his job's already under pressure.

People romanticise about Graham Taylor signing David Platt last time we were in the 2nd tier, but he also signed Chris Price and Derek Mountfield...

Offline boozey182

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #560 on: June 26, 2017, 03:13:25 PM »
There must be more to this than meets the eye, I just really can't fathom it. It just doesn't seem to make sense no matter which angle you look at it.

Perhaps Bruce thinks he has a lot to offer?

I guess that must be the case, but I just can't quite see what it is.

I guess he's a centre back truly made out of the Bruce mould. To paraphrase a well known comedian; John Terry: The Steve Bruce of the Two-Girls-One-Cup generation.

Offline Duncan Shaw

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #561 on: June 26, 2017, 03:36:56 PM »
People romanticise about Graham Taylor signing David Platt last time we were in the 2nd tier, but he also signed Chris Price and Derek Mountfield...

And Steve Sims - he was his first signing and I remember thinking wtf at the time!!

Offline itbrvilla

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #562 on: June 26, 2017, 04:15:10 PM »
Nope, 6 weeks ago but it wasn't going to happen.  As I've said before my real worry is that new owner, in the championship and a first team full of players that the fans would've been happy to see fucked off was a perfect setup for us to change direction and put proper structures in place for the long term success of the club. The managers we've picked and the approach to the transfer market has been pulling in exactly the opposite direction and signings like Terry and Whelan are further evidence that no one at the club gives much of a fuck about doing the hard jobs.

But what about Bree? Bedeau? We're trying to sign Johnstone permanently by all accounts too? The likes of Terry and Whelan would be short-term fixes and there has to be a balance. We need a quick fix as much as we need a complete restructure.

From what I've seen, Xia, Wyness, etc recognise this and are trying to do that. I don't disagree that Bruce isn't a forward-thinking, long-term appointment but Managers that would have been were nowhere to be seen (without taking more of a gamble than Bruce was widely regarded to be) at the time.

Xia strikes me as being almost the complete opposite of Lerner. It's hard to argue that Bruce has performed anything other than poorly so far, and he'll know that his job's already under pressure.

People romanticise about Graham Taylor signing David Platt last time we were in the 2nd tier, but he also signed Chris Price and Derek Mountfield...
Nothing Wyness has done convinces me that he is forward thinking.

Offline Ads

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #563 on: June 26, 2017, 05:11:52 PM »
You don't think Round is a forward thinking appointment?

Online ian c.

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #564 on: June 26, 2017, 05:14:20 PM »
People romanticise about Graham Taylor signing David Platt last time we were in the 2nd tier, but he also signed Chris Price and Derek Mountfield...

And Steve Sims - he was his first signing and I remember thinking wtf at the time!!

Price and Mountfield were great for us.

I refuse to be drawn on the subject of Steve Sims.

Offline saunders_heroes

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #565 on: June 26, 2017, 05:48:40 PM »
People romanticise about Graham Taylor signing David Platt last time we were in the 2nd tier, but he also signed Chris Price and Derek Mountfield...

And Steve Sims - he was his first signing and I remember thinking wtf at the time!!

Price and Mountfield were great for us.

I refuse to be drawn on the subject of Steve Sims.

Price and Mountfield were cracking players for us. Sims did a job. Taylor knew and trusted him well.

Online eamonn

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #566 on: June 26, 2017, 05:49:24 PM »
You don't think Round is a forward thinking appointment?

He talked a good game in that comms to fans last year. Not sure if much of it has borne fruit though.

Offline paul_e

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #567 on: June 26, 2017, 06:18:57 PM »
Nope, 6 weeks ago but it wasn't going to happen.  As I've said before my real worry is that new owner, in the championship and a first team full of players that the fans would've been happy to see fucked off was a perfect setup for us to change direction and put proper structures in place for the long term success of the club. The managers we've picked and the approach to the transfer market has been pulling in exactly the opposite direction and signings like Terry and Whelan are further evidence that no one at the club gives much of a fuck about doing the hard jobs.

But what about Bree? Bedeau? We're trying to sign Johnstone permanently by all accounts too? The likes of Terry and Whelan would be short-term fixes and there has to be a balance. We need a quick fix as much as we need a complete restructure.

From what I've seen, Xia, Wyness, etc recognise this and are trying to do that. I don't disagree that Bruce isn't a forward-thinking, long-term appointment but Managers that would have been were nowhere to be seen (without taking more of a gamble than Bruce was widely regarded to be) at the time.

Xia strikes me as being almost the complete opposite of Lerner. It's hard to argue that Bruce has performed anything other than poorly so far, and he'll know that his job's already under pressure.

People romanticise about Graham Taylor signing David Platt last time we were in the 2nd tier, but he also signed Chris Price and Derek Mountfield...

I don't disagree, the point is that comparing Xia after 1 season to Lerner after 1 season I'd say it's fair to have some concerns because Xia hasn't shown any clear signs that he's changing the direction of the club, a lot of the signings and the choice of manager are exactly the same as we were doing before.

The odd thing here is that I don't actually have any issues with Xia, I'm far from convinced about Wyness and Round though.  Wyness had the same narrow field of view as Lerner, Fox and Faulkner when it came to finding a new manager and Round has done anything wrong but I've seen nothing to suggest any amazing change in our scouting process which leads to...

Specific to signings in January and again this summer I want to see some thought about them.  Whelan for example, is a guy in his mid 30s coming in to compete with another guy in his mid 30s.  I'd honestly rather see Lyden get game time.  With Terry my issue is that it's the same as signing Pires, we're signing the player he was not the player he is.


We can all see the same problems, we need some pace, we need options out wide, we need someone as backup to Jedinak who can step in as the main man next year, We need options at centre back who can give us 2-3 seasons whilst Suliman and Bedeau develop.  I want the club to see these problems and address them, not act like a fat kid in a sweet shop.

Offline brian green

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #568 on: June 26, 2017, 06:31:32 PM »
Love that last sentence Paul, fattism apart.

Offline paul_e

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #569 on: June 26, 2017, 06:36:33 PM »
Love that last sentence Paul, fattism apart.

I'm overweight myself so I'm claiming it as self-deprecating.

 


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