Villa Park: a managerial graveyard?

[Mister E]

Is Villa a managerial graveyard?
- if yes, why?
- if not, what has actually been going on over the last 6-7 years?

We have burned through a veritable Who's Who of managers since the petulant departure of MON. Bruce arrived with a good record at Hull and a reputation of being pragmatically effective. Lambert - having had a torrid time - once again seems to be recovering the lustre he developed at Colchester and Naarrich.
So, what is it about B6 that apparently puts the hex on managers?

[old man villa fan]

All go into their shell and are more interested in not losing than winning.

[mr underhill]

one thing I do know is that they are massively over rewarded. If Lambert is being rehabilitated at the Dog head's, I very much doubt they are paying as much as we did for the privilege. Paying £2m plus a year to Rafa is a world away from doing so to have some of the charlatan's we've had sitting in the Manager's seat at BH

[Mister E]

All go into their shell and are more interested in not losing than winning.

Why?

[Mister E]

one thing I do know is that they are massively over rewarded. If Lambert is being rehabilitated at the Dog head's, I very much doubt they are paying as much as we did for the privilege. Paying £2m plus a year to Rafa is a world away from doing so to have some of the charlatan's we've had sitting in the Manager's seat at BH

If we pay so well, why have we not attracted someone who can get a grip on things and make a difference?

[mr underhill]

I wish I knew - that's the key question isn't it. if we had appointed Rafa a few years back and given him half the money we've wasted since, the subsequent narrative wouldn't have been so tragic, imo.

[brian green]

My personal opinion is that it is the Eric Black syndrome.  Looking out primarily to manage your career not the team.

There is scene in Moneyball when Billy Beane confronts Art, the team manager, about him not picking the players Beane had bought.  Art replies that he is not picking the team to win games he is picking teams to justify himself at his next job interview.

So it has become with us.  We have become a managerial cash cow.  Rock up to Villa Park, spout the expected hyperbole about great club, great job, great history, great fans.  Get rich.  Go through some tired old routines, get your mates in.  Look worried.  Shuffle the deck.  Get the sack.  Get even richer.  Ghost write My Villa Hell.  Repeat.

We need a manager with a brain.  We need above all an intelligent, thinking man.  I though we had one in Remi Garde but what he had in intellect he more than lacked in backbone so he grabbed the money and ran , just like all the others.

It is the curse of A Safe Pair Of Hands mentality.  It is a euphemistic cliché for living in the past.  Negativity.  The fear of losing.

[Mister E]

My personal opinion is that it is the Eric Black syndrome.  Looking out primarily to manage your career not the team.

There is scene in Moneyball when Billy Beane confronts Art, the team manager, about him not picking the players Beane had bought.  Art replies that he is not picking the team to win games he is picking teams to justify himself at his next job interview.

So it has become with us.  We have become a managerial cash cow.  Rock up to Villa Park, spout the expected hyperbole about great club, great job, great history, great fans.  Get rich.  Go through some tired old routines, get your mates in.  Look worried.  Shuffle the deck.  Get the sack.  Get even richer.  Ghost write My Villa Hell.  Repeat.

We need a manager with a brain.  We need above all an intelligent, thinking man.  I though we had one in Remi Garde but what he had in intellect he more than lacked in backbone so he grabbed the money and ran , just like all the others.

It is the curse of A Safe Pair Of Hands mentality.  It is a euphemistic cliché for living in the past.  Negativity.  The fear of losing.

Interesting thoughts, Brian. Thanks.
And, I'd ask: all that despite a change in ownership and various senior off-pitch leaders?

[mr underhill]

it's been done to death on this thread and others but simplistically you need someone like Rafa who is an intelligent manager but one who has to operate with an expansive  budget to fulfil his mission or an antediluvian down in the dirt bruiser like Warnock who can organise workmanlike cohesive units without so much of the folding stuff - not easy on the eye but almost guaranteed not to get you relegated.

[brontebilly]

Is Villa a managerial graveyard?
- if yes, why?
- if not, what has actually been going on over the last 6-7 years?

We have burned through a veritable Who's Who of managers since the petulant departure of MON. Bruce arrived with a good record at Hull and a reputation of being pragmatically effective. Lambert - having had a torrid time - once again seems to be recovering the lustre he developed at Colchester and Naarrich.
So, what is it about B6 that apparently puts the hex on managers?

The managerial graveyard at Villa Park goes back over 25 years, only GT first time around got a better job post Villa. The role has finished the managerial careers of a number of them.

There is obviously more to it than the man in charge, the support structure behind the scenes must be appalling

[Mister E]

Is Villa a managerial graveyard?
- if yes, why?
- if not, what has actually been going on over the last 6-7 years?

We have burned through a veritable Who's Who of managers since the petulant departure of MON. Bruce arrived with a good record at Hull and a reputation of being pragmatically effective. Lambert - having had a torrid time - once again seems to be recovering the lustre he developed at Colchester and Naarrich.
So, what is it about B6 that apparently puts the hex on managers?

The managerial graveyard at Villa Park goes back over 25 years, only GT first time around got a better job post Villa. The role has finished the managerial careers of a number of them.

There is obviously more to it than the man in charge, the support structure behind the scenes must be appalling

And how do you think that has been allowed to continue for over 25 years?
And, in that time there have been flashes where the manager has overcome the apparently-corrosive environment - BFR, Sir Brian, MON ....

[Mister E]

it's been done to death on this thread and others but simplistically you need someone like Rafa who is an intelligent manager but one who has to operate with an expansive  budget to fulfil his mission or an antediluvian down in the dirt bruiser like Warnock who can organise workmanlike cohesive units without so much of the folding stuff - not easy on the eye but almost guaranteed not to get you relegated.

And how do we knoww whether Rafa might not have succumbed to the same toxic environment as others have?

[nick harper]

Who is the manager that can turn round the toxic atmosphere around the club and particularly in the dressing room which is still stinking the place out despite the turnover in personnel and a much improved backroom structure? We are so far away from being a 'team' in every sense of the word and it has been like that at various levels for several years now. The fans have no pride in their team. The team have no affinity to the club, fans or each other. It remains completely broken

Bruce has a decent reputation for being a strong character and should command a lot of respect for his achievements in the game, but you can visibly see it weighing him down. I really don't where we can go for a manager to turn this round.

[VillaAlways]

Houllier was and would have continued to turn us around had he not become ill. He was a top class manager

[sid1964]

I agree what we need is a top class Manager, we pay massive wages to our Managers, and for me we seem to appoint average Joe's.