Villa Park: a managerial graveyard?

[brontebilly]

Is Villa a managerial graveyard?
- if yes, why?
- if not, what has actually been going on over the last 6-7 years?

We have burned through a veritable Who's Who of managers since the petulant departure of MON. Bruce arrived with a good record at Hull and a reputation of being pragmatically effective. Lambert - having had a torrid time - once again seems to be recovering the lustre he developed at Colchester and Naarrich.
So, what is it about B6 that apparently puts the hex on managers?

The managerial graveyard at Villa Park goes back over 25 years, only GT first time around got a better job post Villa. The role has finished the managerial careers of a number of them.

There is obviously more to it than the man in charge, the support structure behind the scenes must be appalling

And how do you think that has been allowed to continue for over 25 years?
And, in that time there have been flashes where the manager has overcome the apparently-corrosive environment - BFR, Sir Brian, MON ....

Flashes only though nothing sustainable. BFR's fell away as fast as it rose, BL fine young team fell apart as did the manager himself, MONs was given too much control and it put us up shit creek financially. Looks like we have bet the parachute money on a first time promotion with risible results.

We need to bring in Southamptons old chief executive and gut the club from top to bottom. The corrosive influences at the club obviously go a lot deeper than the first team dressing room.

[VinnieChase84]

For me we need a manager who actually gets us. Step forward Dean Smith. He always our the club before his own ego and would truly feel honoured to be with us

[German James]

My personal opinion is that it is the Eric Black syndrome.  Looking out primarily to manage your career not the team.

I'd tend to agree with you if it were two or three managers, but it's been seven (7!) not including MacDonald's and McAllister's little terms. Different styles, different ages, different players, different staff, different owners... All of them reduced to shuffling wrecks or rabbits in the headlights. All of them eventually making bizarre team choices and watching impotently from the touchlines every time we collapse after conceding. On that last point alone: I can't keep up with stats and don't remember many specific games that I've not watched, but even I recall a common complaint on here being that every one of those disperate and desperate men haven't been pro-active enough when it comes to changing things during a game. How can that possibly be? How can seven different managers succumb to that same fault? I know I'm only rephrasing Mister E's initial post, but it beggers belief that they end up so similar.
When I get to Villa Park (admittedly not often - three or four games a season), I don't think the supporters are on the players' or manager's backs, particularly. Quite the opposite, in fact. My only guess is at some common denominator in training or in team morale which makes teams not bond and managers not get taken seriously... But that makes no sense, either.
You can see why I usually stay in "Off Topic", can't you?

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

After so many different managers it has to be something deeper and more fundamental.
When Doug Ellis finally let go of the reins, we then had a brief period of success. However it turned out to be an illusion built on spending way  beyond our means. Ever since we have been in a downward spiral which still appears to show no signs of bottoming out.

Our club was run for decades with a hands on approach from the man at the top who would involve himself in every nook and cranny of the great institution that is Aston Villa Football Club. Doug Ellis became Aston Villa, and Aston Villa became Doug Ellis.

We used to moan about his `corner shop mentality`and John Gregory attempted to `drag him kicking and screaming into the 21st century.`
Well we are 17 years into the century and we have kicked and screamed our way pretty well back to where we were in November 1968 on the day that Sir Herbert arrived.

We would all surely love a hands on owner now who had us in the top league the majority of the time, an occasional distant hope of a title challenge, some League Cup wins, and forays into Europe.

These may seem like pro-Ellis comments and I guess in some ways they are. But what I am really saying is that our Club was run for so long as a dictatorship that it has left us still incapable of working out how to operate like most big clubs now do in the modern era.     

[brontebilly]

For me we need a manager who actually gets us. Step forward Dean Smith. He always our the club before his own ego and would truly feel honoured to be with us

He would be well advised to run a mile from the job.

[VillaAlways]

Alan Pardew is available. Might get us safe at least. Has always been respectful towards us.

Desperate times eh?

[pbavfckuwait]

Pardew No No No , same as Bruce fine when things are going ok, but when it goes wrong he has not got a clue how to turn it around.

[mr underhill]

agreed, plus he's a hubristic knob head of Liam Gallagher type proportions.

[Clampy]

I quite like Pardew although I can understand why he's disliked. I was surprised when he got the push at Palace.

[aj2k77]

one thing I do know is that they are massively over rewarded. If Lambert is being rehabilitated at the Dog head's, I very much doubt they are paying as much as we did for the privilege. Paying £2m plus a year to Rafa is a world away from doing so to have some of the charlatan's we've had sitting in the Manager's seat at BH

If we pay so well, why have we not attracted someone who can get a grip on things and make a difference?

Because we've taken the easy option every time, we are lazy. We plunder small clubs, whose career has been spent largely in the lower league and then wonder why they can't handle the pressure here.

Mcleish
Lambert
Bruce
Sherwood
Garde

have never really done fuck all in football management.

[chippy]

Not that I want Bruce sacked yet but the next time we get a new manager he should only be given a 12 month rolling contract. 

[passport1]

I imagine there are Sunderland fan sites with pretty much the same sentiments. There seem to be certain clubs that are unmanageable irrespective of the manager.

[TopDeck113]

I imagine there are Sunderland fan sites with pretty much the same sentiments. There seem to be certain clubs that are unmanageable irrespective of the manager.

Some interesting points and compelling theories on this thread, but I think this last one probably sums it up.  Over the last fifty years there's been brief moments when the stars have aligned and we've achieved - or even over-achieved - our potential, but for the most part it has been about making do, underachievement and, for most of this century, descending into a cesspit of the club's own making. 

[Mister E]

Alan Pardew is available. Might get us safe at least. Has always been respectful towards us.

Desperate times eh?

Is the fundamental issue something about the choice of manager, though? Or is there something systemic about AVFC that prevents mediocre / run-of-the-mill managers from even making an impact? And which turns promising players into pub players?

I'm trying to get to the root cause of our travails, and manager-selection is perhaps only one factor in our long-term decline.

[LukeJames]

We just appoint poor managers, Lambert isn't suudenly a good manager, the dogheads cant stand him, Sherwoods currently in some weird job at Swindon, McCleish and garde out of work??

The only way to stop threads like this is to flex our muscles and appoint a top manager, if we can throw £20m plus, including the contract, at the likes of McCormack then we have the financial resources to go out and get a top boss.