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Author Topic: Bruce Sacked at last (now official)  (Read 1208409 times)

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17550 on: August 21, 2018, 02:28:02 PM »
Yes Russ, agree with all of that.
I am trying to work out if he is thick, stubborn, stupid or conniving.
Itís hard to work out, maybe a bit of everything.

Agreed. Mostly complacency and stubbornness I would say, i.e. it was good enough in my day and why should I make the effort to change now - don't you know I've won four promotions!

I think the people around are equally culpable. There are the fitness coaches to keep them in shape - so what are Calderwood, Agnew, and Clemence doing, other than giving the Phil Neal "yes boss" impression.

Can they have no imagination or ambition to think that there is more interest and challenge in trying to make things happen, rather than listen to the platitudes "needed to move it a bit quicker"; "short of that bit of quality"; and "didn't get the rub of the green" after each game and just follow Bruce from one club to the next.

Not normally in favour of calling for the manager's head but I think we've seen enough to know we're not going to see Bruce send them out with a clear plan and intent.

Better to fail trying something constructive, than being happy to be still in the game for as long as possible and seeing how the chips fall at the end. I'd say that's not good enough for any club, but it's certainly not good enough for Aston Villa in the Championship, in my view. UTV.

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17551 on: August 21, 2018, 02:38:36 PM »
We may as well play 2 holding midfielders. Hopefully that will alleviate some of the defensive duties of our attackers. Playing a 4-1-4-1 and having the front 5 defending is ineffective. Maybe a 4-2-3-1 would be more robust and moves the attacking midfielders ten yards up the pitch.

I've said before that there can be undue importance on the formation. I think the way of playing/approach to the game can be more telling, i.e. how will we win the ball back and then how do we look to create chances - with most goals scored after a transition in play, i.e. a side winning the ball back and executing their attacking plan before the opposition is (sufficiently) organised defensively.

Formations and the players selected can enhance or inhibit the approach, but that is the starting point. The absence of that for us under Bruce means we are prone to random results and struggle against sides with a clear intent.

That said, given Bruce's degree of caution, I think 4-2-3-1 is a good option for us with the key being creativity and pace in the attacking four and the defense and holding two moving up to avoid too much space if/when the ball is turned over.

Online Legion

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17552 on: August 21, 2018, 02:50:09 PM »
Movement on, off, with and without the ball has been an issue for years.

Offline The Moose

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17553 on: August 21, 2018, 03:38:56 PM »
Unfortunately, nothing will change until the thread title is answered in the affirmative.
Every game so far has had changes in goal, defence, midfield and attack - but the single factor that stays the same is the dinosaur that is Bruce. No coherent style, haphazard selections, blame shrugged off.
The new owners need to act sooner rather than later.
Bruce OUT

Offline Nastylee

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17554 on: August 21, 2018, 03:42:47 PM »
Movement on, off, with and without the ball has been an issue for years.

Decades even. We've always been second best on this one compared with the teams above us. You'd think such a fundamental would have been addressed by the many managers to have graced VP over the years.

Online john e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17555 on: August 21, 2018, 04:27:53 PM »
Movement on, off, with and without the ball has been an issue for years.

Decades even. We've always been second best on this one compared with the teams above us. You'd think such a fundamental would have been addressed by the many managers to have graced VP over the years.

Couldnít agree more with both posts
itís not just a Bruce thing itís the way weíve been for years



 

Offline Risso

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17556 on: August 21, 2018, 04:38:42 PM »
Movement on, off, with and without the ball has been an issue for years.

Decades even. We've always been second best on this one compared with the teams above us. You'd think such a fundamental would have been addressed by the many managers to have graced VP over the years.

We had it under Atkinson, and to a lesser extent Little and Gregory.  Not really much to shout about since then though.  It's the main thing that used to drive me mad about Martin O'Neill's team.  Having nippy, skilful wingers is OK in itself, but it's no substitute for the whole team passing and moving.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17557 on: August 21, 2018, 04:57:01 PM »
I think we had great movement quite often away from home under MON. We scored some brilliant goals especially on the break. However at home more times than not we were less than fluid and yes massively frustrating.

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17558 on: August 21, 2018, 05:01:46 PM »
Agree with all the foregoing.  Whoever it was who compared us to traffic cones had it in a nutshell.

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17559 on: August 21, 2018, 05:58:14 PM »
A statement of the bleedin' obvious but fluidity in possession/movement on and off the ball is a feature of having a pattern of play - something drilled in training and understood even when different players are involved.

Ideally it is consistent through the academy, the u23s, and the first team so it is less disruptive when the line-up changes for loss of form, injury, or suspension.

Offline jwarry

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17560 on: August 21, 2018, 05:58:37 PM »
I have supported this team for near on 50 years and I can honestly say I donít remember us ever having a passing and moving team - unless someone can confirm my memory is failing me?!? Even in our finest hour we were a breakaway team although Sid could knock it about a bit.  SGTís teams were functional (knock out to the left wing for Ormandroyd to knock on, and MON was classic breakaway and rely on individual skill to win a game.  BFR was probably the closest although I have always thought Houllier was getting there.  Itís just the way we are .....

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17561 on: August 21, 2018, 06:04:53 PM »
I have supported this team for near on 50 years and I can honestly say I donít remember us ever having a passing and moving team - unless someone can confirm my memory is failing me?!? Even in our finest hour we were a breakaway team although Sid could knock it about a bit.  SGTís teams were functional (knock out to the left wing for Ormandroyd to knock on, and MON was classic breakaway and rely on individual skill to win a game.  BFR was probably the closest although I have always thought Houllier was getting there.  Itís just the way we are .....

It is, for as long as i can recall we've based our team around a strong defence and sneaking a goal on the counter.  I saw this relegation as confirmation that we needed to rethink that approach which is why going with Bruce was such a disappointment to me, we decided to learn absolutely nothing from the 5 years of circling the drain and make the same decisions as if it would suddenly all work out.

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17562 on: August 21, 2018, 08:00:43 PM »
As somebody correctly summarized we are perpetually in a state of needing just the one player to make the team function successfully.  Trevor Ford was the first such that I remember.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17563 on: August 21, 2018, 08:36:06 PM »
A statement of the bleedin' obvious but fluidity in possession/movement on and off the ball is a feature of having a pattern of play - something drilled in training and understood even when different players are involved.

Ideally it is consistent through the academy, the u23s, and the first team so it is less disruptive when the line-up changes for loss of form, injury, or suspension.

I imagine the week at Bodymoor consists of laps of the pitch and work on shape and set plays.

If we were doing regular passing and moving drills in training we would surely see some evidence of it on a Saturday like we've seen with Leeds and Brentford.

Offline Archie

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17564 on: August 21, 2018, 08:37:10 PM »
I have supported this team for near on 50 years and I can honestly say I donít remember us ever having a passing and moving team - unless someone can confirm my memory is failing me?!? Even in our finest hour we were a breakaway team although Sid could knock it about a bit.  SGTís teams were functional (knock out to the left wing for Ormandroyd to knock on, and MON was classic breakaway and rely on individual skill to win a game.  BFR was probably the closest although I have always thought Houllier was getting there.  Itís just the way we are .....

You are right but if in the 70ís and in the 80ís English teams won in Europe with the basic British style (run, pressing, crosses on the wings for the tall central forward and  headers of the central defenders from set pieces) thanks to the influence of the continental managers football is changed in the last 20 years and have grown the expectations of the fans to see a team to play football the way it has to be played.