Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Steve67]

Would this be change for change sake or will they bring in a guaranteed promotion manager, like we thought Bruce was/is?  I honestly don’t think there is anyone better out there who will want the job based on where FFP and having to remove lots of players will get us. And just to say, I was all for ditching Bruce pre Christmas. 

[nigel]

Wasn't there a rumour that part of John Terry's coming to us was to look at next step management?

[georgeyves]

yes if you ask me

[Mister E]

Would this be change for change sake or will they bring in a guaranteed promotion manager, like we thought Bruce was/is?  I honestly don’t think there is anyone better out there who will want the job based on where FFP and having to remove lots of players will get us. And just to say, I was all for ditching Bruce pre Christmas. 

I think the point that some have made is that the circumstances change next season if we remain in the second tier: there will be a denuded squad from several end-of-contract and loan departures and less money to recruit. Under these circumstances - and the fact that Bruce is a self-proclaimed expert as a promotion expert - would the current manager remain or even be appropriately-skilled to manage and develop a different sort of squad?

[Ad@m]

Would this be change for change sake or will they bring in a guaranteed promotion manager, like we thought Bruce was/is?  I honestly don’t think there is anyone better out there who will want the job based on where FFP and having to remove lots of players will get us. And just to say, I was all for ditching Bruce pre Christmas. 

I think the point that some have made is that the circumstances change next season if we remain in the second tier: there will be a denuded squad from several end-of-contract and loan departures and less money to recruit. Under these circumstances - and the fact that Bruce is a self-proclaimed expert as a promotion expert - would the current manager remain or even be appropriately-skilled to manage and develop a different sort of squad?

But also, by Bruce's own admission, anything other than promotion is failure.  Keeping him on would be an acceptance of that failure.  Plus, if he will have failed when the purse strings weren't that tight, what's to say he'll do any better when they are?

[Drummond]

Isn't not winning the league failure for every other team then the champions? If that's the case should every other manager get the sack? Or, is it about degrees of failure?

[brian green]

I think Drummond that it is about expectation.  In every field of life you get what you are prepared to accept.  If you stump up the money for a Jaguar you are not happy being overtaken by Reliant Robins.

[chrisw1]

Would this be change for change sake or will they bring in a guaranteed promotion manager, like we thought Bruce was/is?  I honestly don’t think there is anyone better out there who will want the job based on where FFP and having to remove lots of players will get us. And just to say, I was all for ditching Bruce pre Christmas. 

I think the point that some have made is that the circumstances change next season if we remain in the second tier: there will be a denuded squad from several end-of-contract and loan departures and less money to recruit. Under these circumstances - and the fact that Bruce is a self-proclaimed expert as a promotion expert - would the current manager remain or even be appropriately-skilled to manage and develop a different sort of squad?

I wonder how much richer Hull & Blues were than all the other clubs in the league at the time of those four promotions, because he can obviously only have success at moneybags clubs?

[paul_e]

Would this be change for change sake or will they bring in a guaranteed promotion manager, like we thought Bruce was/is?  I honestly don’t think there is anyone better out there who will want the job based on where FFP and having to remove lots of players will get us. And just to say, I was all for ditching Bruce pre Christmas. 

I think the point that some have made is that the circumstances change next season if we remain in the second tier: there will be a denuded squad from several end-of-contract and loan departures and less money to recruit. Under these circumstances - and the fact that Bruce is a self-proclaimed expert as a promotion expert - would the current manager remain or even be appropriately-skilled to manage and develop a different sort of squad?

I wonder how much richer Hull & Blues were than all the other clubs in the league at the time of those four promotions, because he can obviously only have success at moneybags clubs?

Well 3 of those promotions came whilst the club were receiving parachute payments and the other (the first with Blues) was with a club that had finished in the play off places for 3 years in a row before he arrived and that allowed him to bring in a fair few players after he arrived mid-season, a bit like this year he didn't spend huge amounts on fees but he did add a fair bit in terms of wages.  On that basis they probably were the sort of sides that you'd have expected, based on finance and squad strength, to be challenging in the top 6.  I know that's not exactly the question you asked but it's the best way to answer it.

That's the thing really Bruce has done an ok job at most clubs, not good enough to be missed and not bad enough to be disliked, he's rarely taken clubs massively up or down from what you'd expect (a couple of seasons with the blues are the exception here).

I get the appeal, you know exactly what you're getting but you also know what you're not getting, and that is a legacy of talented younger players who been given their chance to force their way into the team and proven they deserve to be there, because he'd rather stick to players like him, where he knows exactly what he's going to get because they've done it before.  That's not the job that will be needed next season if we don't go up.

[TheMalandro]

I think Drummond that it is about expectation.  In every field of life you get what you are prepared to accept.  If you stump up the money for a Jaguar you are not happy being overtaken by Reliant Robins.

Yet you expected my brick to catch up with Risso!

[john e]

Isn't not winning the league failure for every other team then the champions? If that's the case should every other manager get the sack? Or, is it about degrees of failure?

degrees of failure is what it is
for instance if Burnley finish in the top half of the premier league that would not be looked at as a failure whereas Man Utd finishing second would be

[Ad@m]

Isn't not winning the league failure for every other team then the champions? If that's the case should every other manager get the sack? Or, is it about degrees of failure?

Not in the slightest.

Bruce and the board have said that promotion is the only objective this season and anything less than that would be classed as a failure.  I doubt even Wolves had that stated ambition at the start of the season, let alone the rest of the division.

[Chris Jameson]

Isn't not winning the league failure for every other team then the champions? If that's the case should every other manager get the sack? Or, is it about degrees of failure?

Not in the slightest.

Bruce and the board have said that promotion is the only objective this season and anything less than that would be classed as a failure.  I doubt even Wolves had that stated ambition at the start of the season, let alone the rest of the division.

I bet Wolves did.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Isn't not winning the league failure for every other team then the champions? If that's the case should every other manager get the sack? Or, is it about degrees of failure?

Not in the slightest.

Bruce and the board have said that promotion is the only objective this season and anything less than that would be classed as a failure.  I doubt even Wolves had that stated ambition at the start of the season, let alone the rest of the division.

I bet Wolves did.

They didn't, Chris. When they brought in Nuno Espirito Santos the target was to bring more consistency to their play (the main reason they sacked Lambert was the inconsistency in April 2017, coming off the back of a six game winning streak), by improving the players they had, improving the performances of the team and with that to climb up the table. You have to remember they finished 15th last season on 58 points and 14th the season before again on 58 points.

I'd bet they would have bitten your hand off last summer if you told them they'd make the play-offs this season.

It's a shame we never took the same approach back in the summer of 2016. Of course it's a results driven business but I'm a firm believer that if you get the performances right the results will follow.

[Chris Jameson]

So all these players they brought in on loan on no doubt huge wages (as well as whoever it was they signed for a lot of money)  that were coveted by the bigger clubs in Europe weren't expected to get them to the promised land. If it was consistency they wanted then surely loan signings aren't the way to achieve it?