collapse collapse

Please donate to help keep this site going.

The Fanzine

Heroes & Villains Fanzine

Get your fix of all things Claret & Blue by subscribing to the online version!

Recent Posts

Re: Aston Villa v Brentford: Pre-Match Thread by Damo70
[Today at 03:46:20 PM]


Re: Summer transfer, gossip and speculation thread by DB
[Today at 03:42:29 PM]


Re: Other Games - 2018/19 by Damo70
[Today at 03:42:21 PM]


Re: Bruce out? by paul_e
[Today at 03:31:31 PM]


Re: Bruce out? by paul_e
[Today at 03:30:23 PM]


Re: Bruce out? by OCD
[Today at 03:26:16 PM]


Re: Summer transfer, gossip and speculation thread by Des Little
[Today at 03:24:31 PM]


Re: The International Cricket Thread 2018 by Risso
[Today at 03:17:54 PM]

Follow us on...

Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 833245 times)

Offline Drummond

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15599
  • Age: 47
  • GM : 16.10.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10710 on: February 12, 2018, 12:34:17 PM »
I can't quite remember who it was that said they'd continue to moan about Bruce and want him out until we were in an Auto-Promotion spot.

We're there now, but I have to say the results of late just haven't been good enough....haha!

Offline AsTallAsLions

  • Member
  • Posts: 5559
  • Location: Everywhere
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10711 on: February 12, 2018, 12:35:28 PM »
Credit where credit is due, this is a fantastic run. Long may it last.

Offline Mister E

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10538
  • Location: Mostly the Republic of Yorkshire (N)
  • GM : 15.02.2019
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10712 on: February 12, 2018, 01:22:51 PM »
It's far too late to change the title.

Well done Steve, staff and the team.  Keep it up please.

We could so easily have done a Sunderland and turning round that downward spiral was a huge achievement, even if it wasn't pretty.  We're now seeing the fruits of that labour and I hope we will look back on this season as a great one to have followed the Villa.
I'm delighted that he brought in Agnew: the run seems to coincide with Agnew's arrival.
As some of you will have noticed, I'm not a fan of this manager but I fully accept that credit should go to him for this gathering momentum toward the auto-promo slot.

Online paul_e

  • Member
  • Posts: 16768
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Back from the frozen North
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10713 on: February 12, 2018, 01:55:47 PM »
I can't quite remember who it was that said they'd continue to moan about Bruce and want him out until we were in an Auto-Promotion spot.

We're there now, but I have to say the results of late just haven't been good enough....haha!

You're twisting my words a fair bit there, I said he'd be under achieving and deserve criticism so long as we were out of the auto-promotion spots, and I said whilst we were 6th and 7 points short.  I've also said 2-3 times in the last week or so that he deserves credit for the turnaround since then.  I've been consistent on this from the get go, he got the job because he's a promotion specialist, no one can deny that, so unless we're looking in good shape for promotion he's underperforming.  Now we're in 2nd in control of our chances he's on target and gets credit for realising what he was doing wrong. I honestly don't think he understood the job fully until the pressure really came on over Christmas.  Before that he still seemed happy to settle for a point (as he has at every other club) if things weren't going for us, now we look like we don't want to accept that and we fight for the win right until the end.  This is the bit I've mentioned about acting like the big dog in this league, teams can try to contain us but we've got the quality to do them over and if that takes 20 minutes or 90 it doesn't matter.

The one criticism I have left is that he's too conservative with the bench, he only needs 2 of tuanzebe, taylor, BB and Whelan from yesterday and then he can add players like Green, o'hare, rhm to the mix so we can throw fresh pace and skill at teams when they're tiring.  Once he gets that bit he'll be doing exactly the job I want from our manager.  Eddie Jones in the rugby has the right idea, he calls his bench finishers and tries to fill it with players who can come on for 20-30minutes and make a difference.  You can't be completely gung-ho about it in football but there's a balance to be found between shoring things up and pushing things along and we're not quite there yet.

Offline chrisw1

  • Member
  • Posts: 2133
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10714 on: February 12, 2018, 02:03:18 PM »
I agree with you about the bench.  Although oddly it seems a bit more balanced with Barny on the bench & Jedi starting, as he is a little more versatile.  But I'd like to see Green etc on there like you, probably in place of Wheelan.

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48089
  • Location: Northants
  • GM : 08.02.2019
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10715 on: February 12, 2018, 02:05:17 PM »

The one criticism I have left is that he's too conservative with the bench, he only needs 2 of tuanzebe, taylor, BB and Whelan from yesterday and then he can add players like Green, o'hare, rhm to the mix so we can throw fresh pace and skill at teams when they're tiring.  Once he gets that bit he'll be doing exactly the job I want from our manager.  Eddie Jones in the rugby has the right idea, he calls his bench finishers and tries to fill it with players who can come on for 20-30minutes and make a difference.  You can't be completely gung-ho about it in football but there's a balance to be found between shoring things up and pushing things along and we're not quite there yet.

Agree with that last bit.  It's been working up to now, but we've never had to chase a game.  If and when we do, then having Whelan, Tuanzebe and Bjarnason/Jedinak all on the bench isn't going to help.  I suppose it's a minor quibble, at this point, but it's obviously still very tight for second place and we can't afford any slip ups.

Offline Drummond

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15599
  • Age: 47
  • GM : 16.10.2017
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10716 on: February 13, 2018, 10:47:40 AM »

The one criticism I have left is that he's too conservative with the bench, he only needs 2 of tuanzebe, taylor, BB and Whelan from yesterday and then he can add players like Green, o'hare, rhm to the mix so we can throw fresh pace and skill at teams when they're tiring.  Once he gets that bit he'll be doing exactly the job I want from our manager.  Eddie Jones in the rugby has the right idea, he calls his bench finishers and tries to fill it with players who can come on for 20-30minutes and make a difference.  You can't be completely gung-ho about it in football but there's a balance to be found between shoring things up and pushing things along and we're not quite there yet.

Agree with that last bit.  It's been working up to now, but we've never had to chase a game.  If and when we do, then having Whelan, Tuanzebe and Bjarnason/Jedinak all on the bench isn't going to help.  I suppose it's a minor quibble, at this point, but it's obviously still very tight for second place and we can't afford any slip ups.

I agree, to an extent.

Even when he brings on replacements that we don't think are offensively minded (see Jedinak at Sheffield United) we seem to still get something from the game.

I'd like the younger players to get a shot, a look in, but then again, why change a formula that works.

In a bench of 6 outfield players, you'd think you need cover for centre-back, full-back, central midfield and up front. Add to that a creative player, and you've a spot left. We seem to often lack that flair and a decent forward player.

Offline dcdavecollett

  • Member
  • Posts: 762
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10717 on: February 14, 2018, 10:22:35 PM »
I would have Grabban, O'Hare & Green on the bench; that seems to cover all the go-forward options.

Online Clampy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 21581
  • Location: warley
  • GM : PCM
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10718 on: February 15, 2018, 09:20:51 AM »
I'm not sure about O'Hare, I don't think he's ready yet. Green and Grabban definitely though.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

  • Member
  • Posts: 28243
  • Location: In the Shade
    • http://www.heroespredictions.co.uk/pl/
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10719 on: February 15, 2018, 12:35:10 PM »
Bruce is a big fan of O'Hare and he'd probably be playing him more if it wasn't for the form of Jack. Terry also rates him as the best of our youngsters. With so many games and so much demanded of the first XI, it makes sense to have O'Hare on the bench and allow Jack a rest every now and then with the beauty of not having to switch everything around.

Offline Hookeysmith

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8232
  • Location: One hand on the handle of the mad / sane door
  • GM : 22.01.2018
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10720 on: February 15, 2018, 01:43:44 PM »
Can I also add, and this is speaking from an opinion that he was a dead man walking after Brentford not just for his shite teams football but for his attack on fans etc, that I hope that we all don't turn back into the same "Bruce out" people once this run eventually comes to an end as we all know it will. Lets just hope this momentum keeps us going if we ever get a minor set back

Offline Toronto Villa

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34550
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • GM : 22.01.2019
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10721 on: February 15, 2018, 01:58:11 PM »
Can I also add, and this is speaking from an opinion that he was a dead man walking after Brentford not just for his shite teams football but for his attack on fans etc, that I hope that we all don't turn back into the same "Bruce out" people once this run eventually comes to an end as we all know it will. Lets just hope this momentum keeps us going if we ever get a minor set back

I think the criticism he received after Brentford was absolutely justified. That said he has to be given the credit for what has been a sensational turnaround. Be it just a realization that what he was doing wasn't good enough, appointing Agnew, even if it was just adopting an us against the world mentality. Whatever it was it has worked and he needs to be commended for that.

I've been a staunch critic of his but I can't imagine criticising him to that level again as long as he maintains this approach to games and winning. Yes of course we are going to lose again. But at the time it was more about the manner in which we were losing than the result itself. As long as he dedicates himself to positive, attacking football then I think most people will be happy with that even if we don't win every game.

Online paul_e

  • Member
  • Posts: 16768
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Back from the frozen North
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10722 on: February 15, 2018, 02:46:16 PM »
I'd guess that it really depends.  1 defeat followed by another victory is the sort of blip that we should expect at some point and no one will get on his back.  If we have 4-5 games with a win again then that's a different story because that would put 2nd place in jeopardy after we've put all this work in to getting there.

Offline AsTallAsLions

  • Member
  • Posts: 5559
  • Location: Everywhere
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10723 on: February 15, 2018, 03:12:05 PM »
I'd guess that it really depends.  1 defeat followed by another victory is the sort of blip that we should expect at some point and no one will get on his back.  If we have 4-5 games with a win again then that's a different story because that would put 2nd place in jeopardy after we've put all this work in to getting there.

You'd have to go further and say, if we go 4-5 without a win (assuming that's what you meant, 'with' being a typo), then 2nd place is well and truly gone. Honestly if we go 4-5 games without a win, we will probably fall behind Derby and/or Cardiff by at least 10 points, if not 12-15, at which point 4th or 5th is probably the best we could hope for.

Despite my overall feelings about Bruce, I think this is highly unlikely. I do think we're in for a patchy and bumpy run over the next 5-6 games though. I can't honestly see us getting anything off Wolves (sorry), I think Fulham could go either way, and Wednesday clearly have a bit of fight in them even if they've been absolute cack at times. If I was a betting man I'd guess at 10-12 points from the next 6 games. Not terrible, but probably not enough to retain 2nd.

Offline cheltenhamlion

  • Member
  • Posts: 17956
  • Location: Pedmore, Stourbridge
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #10724 on: February 15, 2018, 06:22:40 PM »
I'd guess that it really depends.  1 defeat followed by another victory is the sort of blip that we should expect at some point and no one will get on his back.  If we have 4-5 games with a win again then that's a different story because that would put 2nd place in jeopardy after we've put all this work in to getting there.

You'd have to go further and say, if we go 4-5 without a win (assuming that's what you meant, 'with' being a typo), then 2nd place is well and truly gone. Honestly if we go 4-5 games without a win, we will probably fall behind Derby and/or Cardiff by at least 10 points, if not 12-15, at which point 4th or 5th is probably the best we could hope for.

Despite my overall feelings about Bruce, I think this is highly unlikely. I do think we're in for a patchy and bumpy run over the next 5-6 games though. I can't honestly see us getting anything off Wolves (sorry), I think Fulham could go either way, and Wednesday clearly have a bit of fight in them even if they've been absolute cack at times. If I was a betting man I'd guess at 10-12 points from the next 6 games. Not terrible, but probably not enough to retain 2nd.

Nah. 4 or 5 without a win (losing them all by your maths) and both of them winning all five? That simply won't happen.

If we get 13 points from the next six we will still be second but without the cushion on points I would like.

I also have no fear of Sheffield Wednesday. Classic mid table outfit now. Won't go down, won't go up and every game a free hit. Score first and they might put you away as they did to Derby. Attack them with venom and they won't want anything to do with it.