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Author Topic: Bruce Sacked at last (now official)  (Read 2114041 times)

Offline Tayls_7

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10290 on: January 17, 2018, 06:39:22 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Avant garde.

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10291 on: January 17, 2018, 06:58:31 PM »
I actually think it’s a good idea
where I disagree with Drum a bit is I think it should be run from the top down rather than bottom up

The first team should be the example of what we are trying to achieve to the various levels down

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10292 on: January 17, 2018, 07:15:07 PM »
I actually think it’s a good idea
where I disagree with Drum a bit is I think it should be run from the top down rather than bottom up

The first team should be the example of what we are trying to achieve to the various levels down

I'm not sure, I think the first team needs to move over quickly (within the next 18 months) or the whole thing is a waste of time but if we have everything in place and can show staff/players/sponsors/etc around and see how the same things are being done all through then the chance of them buying into it is much higher (or I guess the chance of them falling for the marketing bullshit if you're that way inclined) and that's a big part of the point of it, particularly when we're chasing after 16-17 year olds who are being toured round by arsenal/man city/etc.  We have to show the same standards but with a much clearer route to the first team squad.

Online Legion

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10293 on: January 17, 2018, 07:23:23 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10294 on: January 17, 2018, 07:25:16 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.
Fairly obvious why the First team are not using it then.

Offline Canadian Villa

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10295 on: January 17, 2018, 07:32:28 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.

Which is every academy everywhere.

Online Drummond

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10296 on: January 17, 2018, 09:52:18 PM »
I actually think it’s a good idea
where I disagree with Drum a bit is I think it should be run from the top down rather than bottom up

The first team should be the example of what we are trying to achieve to the various levels down

I'm not sure, I think the first team needs to move over quickly (within the next 18 months) or the whole thing is a waste of time but if we have everything in place and can show staff/players/sponsors/etc around and see how the same things are being done all through then the chance of them buying into it is much higher (or I guess the chance of them falling for the marketing bullshit if you're that way inclined) and that's a big part of the point of it, particularly when we're chasing after 16-17 year olds who are being toured round by arsenal/man city/etc.  We have to show the same standards but with a much clearer route to the first team squad.

I think the trick here is that the first team changing costs a huge amount more. It's easier to change the bottom first as it's cheaper to do it. Let the first team contracts run down etc whilst you're changing the fabric of the club and it becomes an easier method, particularly if the first team is achieving the basic requirement.

Online Legion

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10297 on: January 18, 2018, 04:38:11 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.

Which is every academy everywhere.

Not on the evidence of what I've seen over the last few years it isn't.

Offline Mister E

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10298 on: January 18, 2018, 05:12:20 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Avant garde.
Don't you mean ‘apres Garde’?

Offline Canadian Villa

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10299 on: January 18, 2018, 05:13:50 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.

Which is every academy everywhere.

Not on the evidence of what I've seen over the last few years it isn't.

They are expected to, and likely tried to, but then they weren't successful with the players they had so probably abandoned it for matches

Online Legion

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10300 on: January 18, 2018, 05:18:15 PM »
I am referring to the Academy teams from U-7 upwards, not the first team.

Offline john e

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10301 on: January 18, 2018, 05:19:30 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.

Which is every academy everywhere.

Not on the evidence of what I've seen over the last few years it isn't.

They are expected to, and likely tried to, but then they weren't successful with the players they had so probably abandoned it for matches

so this is the way we want you to play but it doesn’t work in actual matches so revert to kicking the ball as far as you can

Offline Canadian Villa

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10302 on: January 18, 2018, 05:46:44 PM »
We have to remember that The Villa Engine is being run throughout the club except, at present, for the the First Team. We're clearly working behind the scenes at the 'style' and at the moment it's too early to implement but in time it must be. Starting at the bottom up makes sense to me.

anyone know what the Villa engine style is that's running throughout the club apart from at first team level
I don't see youth or reserve games so just wondering if anyone's seen a more consistent approach at those levels ?

All academy teams are expected to play in a particular style from the U7s up to at least the U18s.

What style is that?

Essentially bringing it out on the floor with passing from the back with little or no long ball.

Which is every academy everywhere.

Not on the evidence of what I've seen over the last few years it isn't.

They are expected to, and likely tried to, but then they weren't successful with the players they had so probably abandoned it for matches

so this is the way we want you to play but it doesn’t work in actual matches so revert to kicking the ball as far as you can

If you believe that there are only two options in football then sure.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10303 on: January 18, 2018, 08:24:22 PM »
The problem is that there's evidence all through football (and English football in particular) that coaching at academy level is, all too often, entirely results driven which is why so many players make it through the system with a standing only foot or with a touch like a 10 yard pass.  There is something to be said for letting natural skill evolve but that doesn't mean you can miss out on basics.

I haven't done football coaching but I do have rugby coaching badges (and experience) and I mostly worked with 11-14 year olds.  In the 2 hours we had them per week they played about 10 minutes of competitive rugby with the rest focused on tackling technique, passing technique and tactical work (you don't really need to do much defined fitness work at that level but as they got older that came more into it as well).  even when they were put into teams the game would be stop-start where they were not following the techniques we'd been teaching and if it happened too much we'd go back to the technical training instead.  This was all under the guidance of a guy who is now an U20 coach for Exeter (he was with Leicester at the time) who have a brilliant record in bringing through youngsters in the last 10 years.

That's all off on a tangent but the thoughts behind it hold true in any sport, youth coaching has to be technical to be effective because ironing out bad habits in 12 year olds is easy, fixing them when they've been found out in the top flight takes much longer and requires much more of the player.

All clubs may try to do this but the effectiveness is highly dubious so if we, as a club, decide to put a real emphasis on it then I agree completely with the approach.

Offline Canadian Villa

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Re: Bruce out!
« Reply #10304 on: January 18, 2018, 08:34:58 PM »
The problem is that there's evidence all through football (and English football in particular) that coaching at academy level is, all too often, entirely results driven which is why so many players make it through the system with a standing only foot or with a touch like a 10 yard pass.  There is something to be said for letting natural skill evolve but that doesn't mean you can miss out on basics.

I haven't done football coaching but I do have rugby coaching badges (and experience) and I mostly worked with 11-14 year olds.  In the 2 hours we had them per week they played about 10 minutes of competitive rugby with the rest focused on tackling technique, passing technique and tactical work (you don't really need to do much defined fitness work at that level but as they got older that came more into it as well).  even when they were put into teams the game would be stop-start where they were not following the techniques we'd been teaching and if it happened too much we'd go back to the technical training instead.  This was all under the guidance of a guy who is now an U20 coach for Exeter (he was with Leicester at the time) who have a brilliant record in bringing through youngsters in the last 10 years.

That's all off on a tangent but the thoughts behind it hold true in any sport, youth coaching has to be technical to be effective because ironing out bad habits in 12 year olds is easy, fixing them when they've been found out in the top flight takes much longer and requires much more of the player.

All clubs may try to do this but the effectiveness is highly dubious so if we, as a club, decide to put a real emphasis on it then I agree completely with the approach.

i agree with you there. It's an interesting debate on the future of football. As good example right now is Gareth Bale or Leo Messi. Neither are good with their right foot, or particularly strong with heading. If they came through as kids now would we be focused on developing them as better all rounders, or develop their key strengths and focus on left foot only? Or if Peter Crouch turned would you work on his heading as you know that will be a big threat. I believe that measures are being put in place to change the philosophy of playing football but it will take years to mature. Especially as you rightfully point out that it goes out of the window in a game anyways! It drives me nuts when playing short sided games in training with my team that we play keep ball for about 20 minutes then you start to see the big through balls being hit on a 6-a-side game

 


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