Quote from: Clampy on March 02, 2017, 08:13:13 AMI think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything. Yes that's exactly what I meant. I think Bruce should have time with this current crop of players, now that half of the team are players he wanted. To make the amount of changes we did during the January window was unusual and we certainly needed it, but now he needs time to get this squad working together and playing well. That include the remainder of this season and pre-season too.
I think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything.
Quote from: Ian J on March 02, 2017, 01:41:47 PMQuote from: Clampy on March 02, 2017, 08:13:13 AMI think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything. Yes that's exactly what I meant. I think Bruce should have time with this current crop of players, now that half of the team are players he wanted. To make the amount of changes we did during the January window was unusual and we certainly needed it, but now he needs time to get this squad working together and playing well. That include the remainder of this season and pre-season too.Couldn't agree more personally.
Quote from: Clampy on March 02, 2017, 02:03:37 PMQuote from: Ian J on March 02, 2017, 01:41:47 PMQuote from: Clampy on March 02, 2017, 08:13:13 AMI think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything. Yes that's exactly what I meant. I think Bruce should have time with this current crop of players, now that half of the team are players he wanted. To make the amount of changes we did during the January window was unusual and we certainly needed it, but now he needs time to get this squad working together and playing well. That include the remainder of this season and pre-season too.Couldn't agree more personally. But in this scenario when do we judge him? If the end of this season is more of the same of what we've seen so far how far into next season can we risk giving him to solve it?
Omn reflection, I think what we've been going through over the past few weeks is our 'pre-season' in the sense that it's about formations, new players, sorting us out etc.If we had gone up this year, we'd almost certainly been straight back down. We should absolutely be pushing for automatic promotion and winning the division next year, without a doubt. We've changed so much though, that expecting it so early was always a bit optimistic!
He's got until May. If he wins more than he loses and shows that there is progression in the way we want to play, then he keeps his job. If it looks like we've not really progressed in any way, then Tony will have to consider Bruces position at the end. This is a results business. Two games in a row Bruce has got results. Perhaps there are signs that defensively we look better. More organised again. Win, as you would expect against Rotherham, and that puts us in a decent run going into more difficult fixtures. In some regards the last two and following game have been a godsend for Brucie because Derby were in poor form, the Tits and the Chuckle Brothers United are both fighting relegation. Not winning those would have been him done with. I'm not entirely fussed on style because we've fannied around in attempts at trying that and been battered senseless for 6 years. Winning is what matters. Yes, if you have cohesion and a working game plan then obviously winning becomes more likely, but Bruce's thing has always been grafting and grinding results. He's began by doing that for us, and he's now doing it again (touch wood). An apt comparison, hopefully, is O Neills first season. Great start. Unbeaten for 10 odd games I think. Then a horrid run where we looked like we may potentially slip back into a dogfight like we were in when Dolly left. But we then finished that season strongly, ended in mid-table and used it as a launch pad, and indeed that January also saw the beginnings of O Neill's own side, and the wave goodbye to O Leary's.On paper it's a nothing season now. But the reality is, it's vitally important to build for next year and build a decent side.
It is true that other teams don't have the financial advantages that we have. However, I remember before Blackburn won the top division people used to say you can't buy the league. Weirdly, I am starting to think that this remains true of this division.What wins in this division is a well organised set of (often average) players with great team spirit. Buying a new set of stars every 4-6 months isn't going to do it.I want to see us getting better results and looking more organised as the season goes on. It doesn't have to be spectacular, just an improvement, of the kind we were seeing when he first arrived. Scrapping results, sometimes looking good, looking good more frequently, for longer, just sometimes winning AND looking like we meant it. Just that is enough for me to feel he should stay. The rest can, and I think will, come later if we hold our nerve.Of course - if we carry on having the kind of poor points return and disjointed football that we saw from Christmas to Mid February (I'd argue that although the first win was Derby, we had stated to look better, e.g. Creating a lot of chances, sooner than that) - then I'd say that we should part ways and give someone else the pre-season, but without much of budget - we need to start to build a team, not keep getting new 'names' in. It's the worst kind of 'moneyball' to buy a load of players who've done well elsewhere without building a team OR making money on them!
I think I'd just give him next season, regardless.Don't get me wrong, I am as annoyed as anyone at the results since he has been here - they haven't been good enough - but I am so tired of the manager change thing, that I just can't whip up the enthusiasm for binning him.He could make a pretty convincing argument that he deserves a full season to be judged.
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on March 02, 2017, 10:08:27 PMI think I'd just give him next season, regardless.Don't get me wrong, I am as annoyed as anyone at the results since he has been here - they haven't been good enough - but I am so tired of the manager change thing, that I just can't whip up the enthusiasm for binning him.He could make a pretty convincing argument that he deserves a full season to be judged.As could the man he replaced.
Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2017, 10:11:08 PMQuote from: pauliewalnuts on March 02, 2017, 10:08:27 PMI think I'd just give him next season, regardless.Don't get me wrong, I am as annoyed as anyone at the results since he has been here - they haven't been good enough - but I am so tired of the manager change thing, that I just can't whip up the enthusiasm for binning him.He could make a pretty convincing argument that he deserves a full season to be judged.As could the man he replaced.Isn't that pretty irrelevant now? In any case if you the think he was sacked too hastily surely you should be against the same thing happening again.
Quote from: supertom on March 02, 2017, 03:00:15 PMHe's got until May. If he wins more than he loses and shows that there is progression in the way we want to play, then he keeps his job. If it looks like we've not really progressed in any way, then Tony will have to consider Bruces position at the end. This is a results business. Two games in a row Bruce has got results. Perhaps there are signs that defensively we look better. More organised again. Win, as you would expect against Rotherham, and that puts us in a decent run going into more difficult fixtures. In some regards the last two and following game have been a godsend for Brucie because Derby were in poor form, the Tits and the Chuckle Brothers United are both fighting relegation. Not winning those would have been him done with. I'm not entirely fussed on style because we've fannied around in attempts at trying that and been battered senseless for 6 years. Winning is what matters. Yes, if you have cohesion and a working game plan then obviously winning becomes more likely, but Bruce's thing has always been grafting and grinding results. He's began by doing that for us, and he's now doing it again (touch wood). An apt comparison, hopefully, is O Neills first season. Great start. Unbeaten for 10 odd games I think. Then a horrid run where we looked like we may potentially slip back into a dogfight like we were in when Dolly left. But we then finished that season strongly, ended in mid-table and used it as a launch pad, and indeed that January also saw the beginnings of O Neill's own side, and the wave goodbye to O Leary's.On paper it's a nothing season now. But the reality is, it's vitally important to build for next year and build a decent side. Agree with this, word for word.