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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 316117 times)

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #960 on: February 27, 2017, 09:24:27 PM »
I'm not on my own, and several posters have said it, but I'm in the camp of get safe and get rid.
Point is, if we get " safe " the chances are SB will get more money to spend and a pre-season to spend it......and then probably last well on towards Christmas before panic sets in again, and we change manager yet again in time for the January window. Where the new patsy will want to change the entire staff and playing style yet again.
Is that good ?

I think the days of changing the entire staff-players is now a thing of the past, any manager will have to earn his crust with what we've got. I don't even think Bruce, should he survive the summer, will be given much to spend, rather told to trade and a few quid plus if there's somebody really special - even that I'm being to think Xia may not be so enthusiastic to do again.

I imagine Xia expected us to go up one way or another this season. Having thrown money at the problem and had no return, I wonder what he's thinking. Obviously Keith Wyness is supportive of Bruce, it was his recommendation but whilst Xia may have to accept this season is a right-off, I expect him to demand promotion next season. It should make an interesting conversation but right now the job's Steve Bruce's to lose and I expect we'll all be in pretty much agreement on the manager come the end of the season.

Offline BOB MANSFIELD

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #961 on: February 27, 2017, 09:29:53 PM »
Yes, I am sure there's still room to move out a few in order to free up spending power. But prices have gone berserk these days, so value for money is a difficult objective to achieve.
Hopefully with a better structure - i.e. Steve Round in place - the potential for actual scouting of good players has to improve.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #962 on: February 27, 2017, 10:47:56 PM »
We can have the best scouts in the world but players, at least the type of players we want, will want to join a club going places. Will we be promoted next season? Hopefully, yes but right now any player watching our televised games can't be blamed for avoiding us like the plague. Something has to change and fortunately we still have time to completely turn around our season.

Will it happen? Your guess is as good as mine.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #963 on: February 27, 2017, 10:49:46 PM »
We can have the best scouts in the world but players, at least the type of players we want, will want to join a club going places.

Well in that case, isn't the answer to scout only players we'll have a chance of actually signing?

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #964 on: February 27, 2017, 10:57:34 PM »
We can have the best scouts in the world but players, at least the type of players we want, will want to join a club going places.

Well in that case, isn't the answer to scout only players we'll have a chance of actually signing?

What, players that see the Villa as a cash cow and where you can sign a four year contract with one eye on your retirement? Erm, no, at least I hope not. "Would you like to be playing Premiership football next year?" #lifestyle#Nzogbia#moneydownthedrain

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #965 on: February 27, 2017, 11:12:40 PM »
We can have the best scouts in the world but players, at least the type of players we want, will want to join a club going places.

Well in that case, isn't the answer to scout only players we'll have a chance of actually signing?

What, players that see the Villa as a cash cow and where you can sign a four year contract with one eye on your retirement? Erm, no, at least I hope not. "Would you like to be playing Premiership football next year?" #lifestyle#Nzogbia#moneydownthedrain

Err, no, players they think would do a good job for us, and who would be likely to consider joining us.

Surely that's gobsmackingly obvious, though? What other basis should we run recruitment on?

Offline Ads

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #966 on: February 27, 2017, 11:13:24 PM »
Players don't see us as a cash cow.

We just sign the wrong type of character. Plenty of clubs have better players or players who show more endeavour that earn many times what ours do. It's because of their ethic, where as our player due diligence leaves much to be desired at times.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #967 on: February 27, 2017, 11:31:12 PM »
We can have the best scouts in the world but players, at least the type of players we want, will want to join a club going places.

Well in that case, isn't the answer to scout only players we'll have a chance of actually signing?

What, players that see the Villa as a cash cow and where you can sign a four year contract with one eye on your retirement? Erm, no, at least I hope not. "Would you like to be playing Premiership football next year?" #lifestyle#Nzogbia#moneydownthedrain

Err, no, players they think would do a good job for us, and who would be likely to consider joining us.

Surely that's gobsmackingly obvious, though? What other basis should we run recruitment on?

Players with ambition that don't want to play in the Championship for ever. If we were to accept just anybody, we'd we fighting to convince players to choose Villa over (looks at league table) the Rags, Brentford and Barnsley. There's a reason players like Bree, Hogan, Taylor and Hourihane dropped down to join Aston Villa. Surely that's gobsmackingly obvious?

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #968 on: February 27, 2017, 11:34:01 PM »
Players don't see us as a cash cow.

We just sign the wrong type of character. Plenty of clubs have better players or players who show more endeavour that earn many times what ours do. It's because of their ethic, where as our player due diligence leaves much to be desired at times.

There's a whole list of reasons why they fail but I agree, with the exception of one or two, the vast majority don't join us for just the cash, it's the ambition we share to return to and play in the "big league".

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #969 on: February 27, 2017, 11:37:22 PM »
We can have the best scouts in the world but players, at least the type of players we want, will want to join a club going places.

Well in that case, isn't the answer to scout only players we'll have a chance of actually signing?

What, players that see the Villa as a cash cow and where you can sign a four year contract with one eye on your retirement? Erm, no, at least I hope not. "Would you like to be playing Premiership football next year?" #lifestyle#Nzogbia#moneydownthedrain

Err, no, players they think would do a good job for us, and who would be likely to consider joining us.

Surely that's gobsmackingly obvious, though? What other basis should we run recruitment on?

Players with ambition that don't want to play in the Championship for ever. If we were to accept just anybody, we'd we fighting to convince players to choose Villa over (looks at league table) the Rags, Brentford and Barnsley. There's a reason players like Bree, Hogan, Taylor and Hourihane dropped down to join Aston Villa. Surely that's gobsmackingly obvious?

How is that in any way different to my point? I didn't say anything about buying players purely because they want to join us, they also need to actually add something.

We signed those players you mention exactly because they're the sort of players we can tempt, good players who are also attracted to playing for us.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #970 on: February 27, 2017, 11:58:34 PM »
Erm..because they think/thought we were going places? I can't see the point in signing any player if you don't think he can do a job for us. That much is pretty damn obvious.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #971 on: February 28, 2017, 12:18:44 AM »
My major concern is if he can't do it who can?  As has been discussed before we've tried most types of manager and one after the other they have failed.

I think we've been pretty consistent with our managers:

MON, McLeish , Lambert and now Bruce. All footballing dinosaurs in one way or another.
370 games and counting

Houllier and Garde both walked in on revolting players and were kicked out.
59 games combined.

Sherwood and RDM I'd file as a couple of chancers.
40 games combined.

So that's roughly 75-80% of the time with an old school British manager since 2006. I'd say that's very consistent. I'd also say we deserve better.

interesting points, never looked at it that way before
But it just shows why we are where we are

I've long been an advocate of the foreign coach route.  They just seem to have more modern ideas and tactical nous.  It's worked well for clubs like Southampton, and 8 of the top 10 in the PL have foreign bosses.  There's probably a good reason why.  I think Houllier was heading us in the right direction albeit with some gaffes.  As for Garde he was pretty much thrown to the wolves and never had a chance.  Seems to me it's either a forinjer or an arch pragmatist like Pulis or Allardyce if you want to do any good in the English leagues.  Or there's always Mark Hughes.

Online brian green

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #972 on: February 28, 2017, 07:12:11 AM »
All that pretty much chimes in with my current conviction that we have gone round in a circle from Alex McLeish to Steve Bruce with little forays up the blind alleys of Sherwood the Chancer, RDM the compo collector and Garde the Let's appease the football gods with a human sacrifice.

McLeish and Bruce are essentially the same manager.  Good men, decent men, honourable men, set in their ways, fixed in their ideas, slow of thought, cautious and scared to innovate.

The phrase of the great football journalist David Lacey comes to mind about the England team under Gerry Francis.  In a storm at sea with a stoker at the wheel.

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #973 on: February 28, 2017, 09:06:27 AM »
agree with a lot of this -in an ideal world who would you appoint, Brian?

Offline peter w

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #974 on: February 28, 2017, 10:13:01 AM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

Shit. why go through that again?