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Author Topic: Bruce out?  (Read 327171 times)

Offline gpbarr

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #930 on: February 27, 2017, 03:04:30 PM »
Indeed it isn't.  The solution is to find a manager who is worth backing and stick with him. Some on here believe Bruce to be just that and it appears the board agree if the comments that Wyness has said he's safe even if we go down are true (if they are then it's a fucking pathetic thing to say at this point in the season).  Some of us, me as one of the more vocal members, just don't believe he is good enough to put blind faith behind with nothing to back it up.  His career wide win rate is about 37% that's not terrible but it's not the amazing success that some people seem to have projected onto him (for context Paul Lambert, even with his shocking runs without a win for us, has a win rate of 39% and Alex McLeish has a win rate of 46.3% but that is skewed by his time with Rangers).

We agree Wyness comments on Bruce are ridiculous and ill placed.

But I want to understand your first comment. I assume you agree that none of our managers since MON has been "worth backing and sticking with" given many of them have been backed but we have continued to decline. What constitutes such a manager, and why do you think it is that despite the best interests, such an individual has not been appointed in over 6 years?

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #931 on: February 27, 2017, 03:04:38 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

Online Clampy

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #932 on: February 27, 2017, 03:16:23 PM »
paul e,
why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not )
yet still want him to stay on
I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.

My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds.  I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games. 

Why do you want people to change their minds? I don't want you to change yours, your opinion is just as valid as mine and Ad's. You seem unable to accept that we think Bruce deserves a crack at a pre-season and for him to go into next.

Can you read?

I said I'd like to know what it would take for people to change their minds.  We got 1 point in 9 games and you were happily accepting it.

You say you don't want me to change mine but you've called my opinion wrong repeatedly over the last few months, when we had a bounce you told me I was wrong when I said it wouldn't last if we didn't play better, then we had a run of defeats and you shifted from it being all about results to it being about needing time.  I'm normally supportive of managers and I'm normally positive but I just don't see the point in allowing time for Bruce to develop the squad into his team, if that happens we end up as what Hull are now, or what Sunderland were when he left, or Blues, or Wigan, I don't want us to waste a 2nd chance with a rich owner by wasting money on over the hill journeymen and hitting a ceiling again and I don't see how Bruce, long term, is doing anything but leading us down the same path.

Yes, I can read. There's no need to be snippy just because I disagree with you.

We have a difference of opinion and we've discussed this a few times now so it's best if we leave it at that. What will be will be.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #933 on: February 27, 2017, 03:55:54 PM »
Not being snippy, I just think you missed the distinction between me wanting to change your mind and me wanting to know what would change your mind, those 2 are very different things.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #934 on: February 27, 2017, 03:56:50 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

In a relegation battle?  Lose the next couple and we might be.

Online john e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #935 on: February 27, 2017, 04:00:00 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

without Bruce,   Yes please  🙂

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #936 on: February 27, 2017, 04:00:46 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

In a relegation battle?  Lose the next couple and we might be.

Using what has happened to Hull this season as a semi-detached extension of your anti Bruce argument is bizarre.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #937 on: February 27, 2017, 04:01:16 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

In a relegation battle?  Lose the next couple and we might be.

A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #938 on: February 27, 2017, 04:08:14 PM »
Indeed it isn't.  The solution is to find a manager who is worth backing and stick with him. Some on here believe Bruce to be just that and it appears the board agree if the comments that Wyness has said he's safe even if we go down are true (if they are then it's a fucking pathetic thing to say at this point in the season).  Some of us, me as one of the more vocal members, just don't believe he is good enough to put blind faith behind with nothing to back it up.  His career wide win rate is about 37% that's not terrible but it's not the amazing success that some people seem to have projected onto him (for context Paul Lambert, even with his shocking runs without a win for us, has a win rate of 39% and Alex McLeish has a win rate of 46.3% but that is skewed by his time with Rangers).

We agree Wyness comments on Bruce are ridiculous and ill placed.

But I want to understand your first comment. I assume you agree that none of our managers since MON has been "worth backing and sticking with" given many of them have been backed but we have continued to decline. What constitutes such a manager, and why do you think it is that despite the best interests, such an individual has not been appointed in over 6 years?

I think Houllier would've been and I think Garde could've been if we'd go him in at a better time and let him have a chance to build his own squad.  McLeish was a shocking appointment, Lambert was a populist 'Flavour of Month' appointment, Sherwood was utterly ridiculous and RDM, whilst made for decent reasons was the wrong man for the job of rebuilding we needed.  Bruce, in my opinion, was the easy quick fix option when we'd have been better served by someone who could've helped to build something.  I don't believe he's ever left a club with a 'legacy' of talent and potential ready for someone else to step in and take them to the next level.

Online Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #939 on: February 27, 2017, 04:11:14 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

If only we were where Albion are now. Oh, hang on..

Offline paul_e

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #940 on: February 27, 2017, 04:11:20 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

In a relegation battle?  Lose the next couple and we might be.

A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.

Of course I did but if we'd got a better manager than Bruce we could be on our way there rather than seeing people say that they never expected to go up anyway and we had absolutely no chance because of the 11 league games RDM was given so Bruce should just get a free pass for the other 35.

Offline Chris Jameson

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #941 on: February 27, 2017, 04:19:36 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

In a relegation battle?  Lose the next couple and we might be.

A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.

Of course I did but if we'd got a better manager than Bruce we could be on our way there rather than seeing people say that they never expected to go up anyway and we had absolutely no chance because of the 11 league games RDM was given so Bruce should just get a free pass for the other 35.

Without the benefit of hindsight I thought Di Matteo was a terrible appointment, he had a pre season and signed a load of players without any idea of how to play to their strengths and some of them weren't very good as it turns out, the decision to get rid of him was a wise one and I don't see his name coming up whenever there are any vacancies. I'm prepared to give Bruce time because he inherited a mess and then brought in a load of players mid season and they were expected to hit the ground running. Just about everybody seemed happy with his signings despite not having seen much of any of the players I guess, I had only ever seen Lansbury and Taylor when he played for Wales.

Just out of interest, who were the 'better' managers who would realistically have come to Villa?

Offline LukeJames

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #942 on: February 27, 2017, 04:27:27 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

In a relegation battle?  Lose the next couple and we might be.

A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.

Of course I did but if we'd got a better manager than Bruce we could be on our way there rather than seeing people say that they never expected to go up anyway and we had absolutely no chance because of the 11 league games RDM was given so Bruce should just get a free pass for the other 35.

Without the benefit of hindsight I thought Di Matteo was a terrible appointment, he had a pre season and signed a load of players without any idea of how to play to their strengths
You mean like signing one of the best strikers in the league that any man and his dog could see thrives on intelligent midfield through balls and then proceeding to isolate him upfront, cut the midfield out and wack the ball repeatedly upto him from the defence?

This is what I can't get my head around, Di Matteo gets slaughtered for the same things that Bruce gets a free pass for.

Offline Richard E

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #943 on: February 27, 2017, 04:27:59 PM »
If only we were where Hull are now.

It'd be a long way for a lot of us to travel for home games, especially midweek ones.

Offline Neil Hawkes

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Re: Bruce out
« Reply #944 on: February 27, 2017, 04:49:55 PM »
[quote author=paul_e link=topic=57112.msg3238254#msg3238254 date=1488184478

but we don't have a particularly leaky defence, we've had some poor performances but overall our defensive record is good enough for the top 6.
[/quote]
It's not great and it would probably be a disaster in the premiership, (or whatever it's called these days.